Upgrading gravel bike to AXS ‘lecky gears - worth it?

Have you used leccy gears on other bikes? I’ve got to say I’m pretty underwhelmed by them. I have Rival AXS on my road bike and while it’s quite reliable it’s nothing to get excited about IMHO. I still haven’t quite got over the irritation of all the pre-1st-ride faff with charging and apps and pairing and firmware updates. Shim GRX (mechanical) has been just as reliable for me and I maybe even prefer the lever feel (vs buttons).

I certainly wouldn’t pay through the nose to upgrade to electric unless it was definitely going to solve a very specific problem.

On the other hand, I know some people love electric shifting so YMMV etc.

I put GX AXS on mine. Went from 105 2x11 to 1x12 40T 10-52.

Absolutely worth it, I’m not going back to cables.

Its 100% worth it, and you'll never look back!

Downside is, you'll want it on every other bike you ever own, present or future.

You can pick up some great deals if you shop around, so it shouldn't cost too much either

I have Apex AXS on mine and it’s underwhelming. Not faffing with cables is nice but the shifting itself is no better than the 9 speed Sora I used to have, and I miss the mechanical feel of the shifting paddles. Charging isn’t needed all that frequently, maybe about 300km.

Id spec GRX if I had my time again.

I still haven’t quite got over the irritation of all the pre-1st-ride faff with charging and apps and pairing and firmware updates.

You don't do this every time though - just once (apart from charging every 1000km or so). I got over it 2 seconds after doing it and I wasn't at all irritated by it. Have you posted this irritation in the Disproportionally Cross thread!

Pairing, takes seconds, firmware updates take a few mins. Hardly what I'd call faff but each to their own.

Personally I'd never go back to cable shifting. AXS is superb. I crashed my bike the other day and bent the hanger about 15 degrees and it shifted almost perfectly while I rode it home ...

I put 2x axs on my comfy road bike. If it got written off tomorrow I'd be happy with either wireless or cables as a replacement. The faff of servicing the shifting is just replaced with faff in charging batteries.

@airvent if the shifting is no better than sota it's not set up right. Shifting should be instant and silent, mine is

I've Axs on both my mtb's and wireless droppers too (one Axs one trans-x), I'd have the dropper over the gears every time. Ok, the gears are a nice to have, just for the removal of cables if anything else. But I'd only put them on another bike if the budget allows - and I'd stick a wireless dropper on there first.

I've also had to replace an Axs mech do to the pogo pins wearing - and then subsequently fix another (more expensive xo) with the same issue. So imo durability is definitely an issue.

I’ve ridden years with cable Ultegra just fine and my Crux has got cable 12 speed GRX which work faultlessly. Before I took delivery I was contemplating swapping it out for AXS but the GRX just works so left it as it is.  Current mtb has AXS so not against electronic shifting.

If you really like the bike and it is the cable routing causing the issue then try Apex AXS though as you mentioned it’s not going to be cheap.

I have Apex 1x11 on my gravel bike too, not a single missed shift in a year and a bit, not once have I had to tweak a single thing since taking the bike out of the box. (Jinxed it now, I guess). It’s a pretty drastic solution to ditch it. What frame, and how much outer, inner and internal routing?

The only issues I've had with my gravel bike have been front mech cable related...

In terms of actual use, a well set up mechanical set up is a marvel of engineering, giving faultless shifts in all conditions, caked in gloop or otherwise. From my limited experience (a Di2 105 hire bike in Mallorca) I found the lack of mechanical feedback at the shifters a bit weird at first but if buying new, I'd go for electronic shifting if available at the right price.

I’ve also had to replace an Axs mech due to the pogo pins wearing

It recently cost me 25 quid to have the pogo pins replaced by a laptop/console repair shop. It doesn't actually require the skills of those guys, we aren't rebuilding a mother board. But they do have the tools/extra pairs of hands required to hold everything in place the time to solder everything together.

I’m thinking of doing this too on my gravel winter bike.It has Force mechanical on it 1x. The cable routing for the rear mech isn’t great I can get it working but it gunks up after a while and I also had to replace the mech as the spring was struggling to pull it back into the 10 tooth cog. I get hacked off when it doesn’t shift when I need it to or I get a really slow shift. AXS  just works immediately every time. I have AXS on my summer gravel bike and it’s superb. That is on a Rival group set.

AXS every time. It makes even more sense on a gravel bike as it allows you to mix-n-match road and mtb components. I love having the gear indication on the computer too. And the app allows insight into usage of ratios... useful for when considering new drivetrain components.

I had a major faff with the internal routing on my road bike so went to (wired) Ultegra Di2 and it's pretty much been fit and forget since then, 9000km ago, just a battery charge every couple of months.  Perfect, fast shifting every time and the added bonus of Garmin remote control.

Love the Di2 on road bike, not keen on AXS on my full suss. Gravel it probably is worth it, but only when you need new gears if your current set up is fine it’s less appealing.
For what you describe it will be worth it.

@bikerevivesheffield I have no idea why it doesn’t shift well. The B screw is set to the correct position based on the tool you fit onto the cassette, and this is the second gear hanger I’ve tried and aligned with a park tool alignment gauge. I’ve messed about the the micro adjust on the app but with no luck.

As far as I can tell there isn’t really anything else I can do that would help rectify it.

I put my old sram red TT RD on mine with some used front shifters. Do it. Peerless shifting. My cross bike has no downtube bosses so looks pretty clean. I won’t remove the others as it’s Ti. Cable shifting on this bike was always a bit shonky despite two hangers, alignment tool and frequent RD cable swaps and lubes. And now it isn’t! Two shifters and a RD is a really nice solution

How you use the gravel bike may influence your decision.

I have AXS on my Orange Stage Evo and I am impressed. It is used on local yrails and all day outings, trail centres, long w/e trips to same, etc ..

However when I bought my Camino I specifically chose a mechanical gear change as I wanted to avoid the hassle of charging the battery on long multiday rides, bikepacking, Lejog, etc ..

It's hassle enough charging up my phone, Garmin as it is.

If big single or 2 day rides/races is your thing, then thats less of an issue.

Regardless, I would  recommend carrying a spare charged up AXS  battery and 2032 coin battery. I am surprised how often I have bailed others out 😀

Over mechanical SRAM yes, over electronic GRX yes, over mechanical GRX no

That's a bike after mine own heart TiRed 😎

Thanks. Thinking I can get it below 8 kilos for the Worlds next year. It’s 8.5 kilos at the moment with relatively few trick parts. The groupset is light though. Red carbon cranks bought for £50 in 175 also help.

its my first non-TT electronic shifting bike and I’m very pleased. Going to Force AXS on the TT bike to avoid the blip box for moar Aeros and the old red is not compatible. So here it is and I love it. Paid £180 for the shifters as someone needed to swap to hydraulic.

Slight thread creep but has anyone upgraded to the new SRAM Red E1 AXS callipers/levers which seem to be on offer everywhere currently as an upgrade inc a Karoo 3

I've been a long term sceptic - until I borrowed a demo bike off the LBS which had it on. Got it in minutes. Perfect identical, effortless shifts no matter how you're riding, how covered in crap the chain is, how tired you are, the cables won't get gunged up and stiff. Just easy, light, predictable shifting.

Still not having it on a bike, as a point of principle I don't want to need an app to make my bike work - purely mechanical for me. They're also hideously spendy.

I'm just surprised people's shifters are going gungy, I dug my 'winter' gravel bike out this week and set it up again. 1x GRX with full length Shimano SP41 outer, shifting has never missed a beat, still light and precise

My winter road bike on the other hand IS getting gungy but is probably on its third winter with these particular cables (Jagwire, whatever the shop fitted). When I can be bothered I'm just going to fit full length SP41 to the road bike as well.

It was front mechs which had me glancing enviously at electric gears, but once I ran (yes, you guessed it) full length SP41 outers right up to the mech (Shimano mechs come with stops for this purpose) this shifting has been amazing.

Think i'd like it on a 2x setup, almost bought a DI2 bike, been pretty pleased with SRAM Apex and Rival 1x otherwise TBH, it's far better than their mountain bike stuff

I have AXS on my race MTB and for that I wouldn’t look back - crisp reliable shifting and multi shifts in all conditions is excellent, although battery anxiety is a thing - it pays to keep a standby battery & charger in the car.

Yesterday for the first time since April I rode the bigger bike in mixed conditions which is SLX shod and didn’t miss the AXS at all, I wouldn’t be inclined to spend the money upgrading it TBH.

I suspect the upgrade decision point is where that second / longer stab at a gear lever with a stretched or sticky cable/mech gets to a point/frequency that you can’t be bothered with the subsequent maintenance.

I don’t want to need an app to make my bike work

In four+ years of owning Axs, I think I've used the app once since initially set up - and that was only because both my mechs had firmware updates to make them shift slightly better.

It recently cost me 25 quid to have the pogo pins replaced by a laptop/console repair shop.

It cost about 6p to fix mine as I bought a pack of 100 for about £6 and did it myself, which was easier than I expected. I did have to buy a set of very small torx keys though. But the point is that it's such a common point of failure I'd have expected SRAM to have changed the design by now. I think I've owned 5 or 6 Axs products and 3 have had pogo pin failure.

I'd only really consider electric gears if I got them included on the new bike for a good price or if I had some awkward MTB suspension design that going cableless might help with. Or if I was filthy rich.

I like it so far, 3 rides in. The only downside is that the shifting isn't silky smooth like other mechanical systems. It feels clunky, much like any SRAM I've used before.

I didn't specifically go looking for AXS 1x, but a clearance Vaast A1  I recently bought from Decathlon came with it, so I've been riding it without having prior expectations one way or the other. So far it has worked well, without any problems. I had to replace one of the coin batteries in the shifter, because the red "6 months" low battery LED was flashing (presumably because the bike has been in storage for a long time). The bike was set up when I got it, but I have re-paired the shifters and mech and tried the micro adjustment to see how it works, and that was all pretty straightforward. The shifting just works. I wouldn't say it is any different to a properly set up mechanical derailleur. I have a full length cable outer routed through the frame on another bike which shifts very smoothly, so my experience is that internal routing can also work fine. Is there something specific about your existing setup that is causing a problem?

I can't comment on long term reliability, but in my experience so far, AXS works perfectly fine. However, I don't think I would go out of my way to specifically choose it over mechanical shifting, because looking at the prices, it appears that the AXS groupset costs more than I paid for the entire bike.

Is your Apex full outer?

Made a load of difference to my gravel bike when I did this

I've upgraded both our gravel bikes to Rival AXS, mainly as I prefer having all my bikes on the same system, so the shifters are the same everywhere (except MTB which doesn't have drop bars).

Is your Apex full outer?

Made a load of difference to my gravel bike when I did this

are there really* still bikes being sold in the UK for use in mud (or even poor road conditions) that don't have continuous routing? the slight drag reduciton when clean in no way makes up for the lack of weather resistance.

(*not insinuating anyone is a liar, more just disappointed in the bike brands)

However when I bought my Camino I specifically chose a mechanical gear change as I wanted to avoid the hassle of charging the battery on long multiday rides, bikepacking, Lejog, etc ..

It’s hassle enough charging up my phone, Garmin as it is.

Yeah this. I'm sure it works very well, but the endless complication of everything seems relentless, pointless and often retrograde in some aspects of functionality. I've been toothbrush shopping and found stuff with an RRP - allegedly - of £800, that retailed for £300 online and 'gamefied' brushing your teeth using an app.

I guess if you can't get decent shifting with your existing set-up, then it makes some sort of sense, but mechanical GRX on my Camino is good enough that I don't see any point in changing it. Plus a mate with SRAM wireless both found his rear mech shed some pivot axle that stopped it working cleanly, then developed a faulty battery that had to be sent off for warranty rendering the bike temporarily unusable, which put me off a bit,

But yes, I don't want something else to charge on big trips. Or even short ones fwiw.

are there really* still bikes being sold in the UK for use in mud (or even poor road conditions) that don’t have continuous routing? the slight drag reduciton when clean in no way makes up for the lack of weather resistance.

Yep, just not noticeable as the inner is 'inside' the frame.

Also for bikes that are full-length and internal to spend a bit of time seeing if the routing can be improved and/or replaced with quality cables & outers.

I had a sonder Camino AL with mechanical Rival 1 which I really enjoyed.

When it was pinched I decided to by another and went for a Camino Ti with Rival AXS XPLR.

The difference between the two set ups is marked with the AXS incredibly smooth and quick. Rapid downshifts are a dream with all gear changes simply incredible.

No new cable stretch, mucky cables etc.

Would I go back to mechanical shifting again, definitely not.

Regarding the "faff" of battries, I carry a spare rear mech and a couple of button batteries so no worries as the app gives to a clear represention of where the charge is.

are there really* still bikes being sold in the UK for use in mud (or even poor road conditions) that don’t have continuous routing?

In my case, its continuous routing, but internal. I feel there's quite a tight bend around the BB - and once the inner has worn through the teflon liner of the outer, it'll be metal on metal in the middle of the run, plus whatever cable setup you have, you'll still end up sucking a little bit of gunge up the cable at the derailleur end every time you shift down when the mech is covered in clart.

I fitted a new mech and recabled my (1x GRX) Warbird in Feb/March time. It was lovely then; now I'm definitely having to feel one or 2 of the shifts.

In four+ years of owning Axs, I think I’ve used the app once since initially set up – and that was only because both my mechs had firmware updates to make them shift slightly better.

Its not the app specifically. Its my belief that a bicycle should be a purely mechanical device - if there's an app for it, its failing that premise.

i've never bothered with AXS on my mtb, friends all run it and rate it, i break a derailleur at least every 18 months.

i had to replace my sonder camino, and had the opportunity to use c2w so got the AXS version , the shifting is incredible.

that reminds me i must recharge the battery, haven't recharged in about 5 weeks, ridden maybe 150km on it.

I'm told as long as you ride the bike a few times a week the battery doesnt discharge too badly, if you dont ride for a month then it may need recharging

Have people tried both GRX Di2 and AXS? Rocketdog - you suggest you'd go for AXS over Di2 and interested why this may be. Am looking at potentially upgrading my old Ultegra 6800 and am drawn to 2x GRX Di2, particularly given better battery life over AXS.

AXS the battery clips onto the derailleur, shimano ones go in the frame i believe  , which seems kind of pointless

SRAM hold a patent on using interchangeable batteries in front and rear derailleurs. That may have slowed Shimano going full wireless. Or perhaps they like the single battery and wired connection robustness. It looks rubbish on steel or titanium frames with external wiring though - hence my SRAM red upgrade. Mavic Zapp electronic was launched in 192 and fully wireless In 1999.

I can't comment on whether its worth upgrading an existing bike but, FWIW, I've just bought a bike with SRAM Apex AXS and I've ridden it a few times this week, for a total of about 45 miles and here are my observations:

1. I felt the shifters were the wrong way round, so I swapped them. This involved an App for my phone and the inevitable firmware upgrade. Its worked, which is nice, but I think after the apocalypse I'll probably stick with a mechanical bike.

2. There's no haptic feedback. If you are slowing for an obstacle (hill, bend, whatever) and changing down in preparation, its impossible to tell that anything has happened. I'm sure I'll get used to this, but it feels weird at the moment.

3. On the whole it feels nice, but probably any bike still would. I'm looking forward to never having to re-index the gears (because I suck at it).

LR