[Closed] Ultegra groupset- unreasonable expectations?

If you want a good road-orientated bike shop near you, head out of streftord through alty and then onto Northwich, go to Dave Hinde cycles and talk to Dave, he would be just the kind of person to help you

Or, if you don't find him to be quite your cup of tea, pop in to the bikeroom on Deansgate, they'll be as happy to help as you will be to be in there 😈

edhornby - Member
If you want a good road-orientated bike shop near you, head out of streftord through alty and then onto Northwich, go to Dave Hinde cycles and talk to Dave, he would be just the kind of person to help you

Very cruel, but funny. I'm sure Hora knows not to go there 😀

I knew about Dave Hinde over a decade ago.

The guys consistent, I'll give him that.

The Bike Room- what if their fellow customers see my bike and ask me about my bike compared to the value of the ones on display?

Hora - go to Ken Fosters in Chorlton. Good bunch in there, despite all being roadies. They'll sort it out for you, without treating you with obvious contempt you deserve.

Well... actually they would have done, if I hadn't just emailed them with a link to all your opinions on local bike shops, and a photo.

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I have 6700 on my Giant with Shimano outers and inners built up by a very good bike shop as it's a custom job / build and my mate has 6700 on his Battagilan (or however the **** you spell it) - built by Planet-X with non-shimano outers / inners and his gears & brakes don't feel anywhere near as smooth as mine.

Go figure

FWIW, my 2300 groupset (about 4 levels down and one iteration previous to it) shifts amazingly.

Oiled your chain?

go to Ken Fosters in Chorlton.

Decent old roadie shops aren't expensive. That place IS expensive. Seen their price tags on average/middling stuff?!!

You wouldn't expect Ultegra 6800 compared with Tiagra say, to feel the same as XTR compared with Deore - because it's nor comparable. Ultegra should be on a level with XT.

My experience of Ultegra 6800 (on several of our demo bikes) is that it shifts very smoothly and works much better than previous Ultegra groupsets, and noticeably better than 105. It's not far off Dura Ace performance levels in my experience. It wins our "bargain groupset" award despite not being cheap!

FWIW, my 2300 groupset (about 4 levels down and one iteration previous to it) shifts amazingly

Sora/Tiagra is 'clunky', Ultegra and DA stuff I would normally describe as 'crisp' rather than silky smooth.

Front mechs are a prime example: Very flimsy and why do you need trim on them? MTBs don't need it.

Because of shorter distance between chainrings and cassette, combined with a narrower cage, meaning more likelihood of rubbing...

FWIW, my 2300 groupset (about 4 levels down and one iteration previous to it) shifts amazingly

I've got Tiagra (3400?) on my Allez and it's utter shit compared to the higher end groupsets! Clearly there's some personal preference going on here.

Cables cables cables. they make a huge difference on Road bikes,especially ones with internal, under the tape routing.

My Ultegra was a bit disappointing when new but after a few hundred miles and ditching the OE Jagewire cables for Gore RideOns it's now as smooth as a baby's backside.

As above, cables. Sp41 outer and the polymer Shimano infers and it's super smooth. Most OEM's won't pay for the good cables and put crappy ones on.
My Giant came with Jagwire and I changed them for Dura Ace cables and it's a huge difference.

That I will agree with. Brakes too.

Are these the ones where the shift cable is hidden under the bar tape, rather than popping out of the end of the shifter like an insect antenna?

I'm sure I've read several reviews that have said the shifting of them isn't as good as the said 'insect antenna' cable routing shifters.

I was surprised how 'clunky' the shifting is on my road bike. But that's low-end Sora stuff.

Are these the ones where the shift cable is hidden under the bar tape, rather than popping out of the end of the shifter like an insect antenna?

Its the one with shifter cable wrapped under the tape.

Will get proper inners too and the brakes sorted at the sametime.

Its a tiny thing- but tbh once the saddle was sorted, with the gears it'll be a glide. Funny isn't it- the smoother the riding surface the more subtle (and yet) obvious the small things become...are amplified.

Will get proper inners too and the brakes sorted at the sametime.

Outers make as big a difference, particularly for brakes, less compression = sharper and more powerful braking. Revolutionised my thereto awful 105s.

You'll have to re-tape your bars though, and those groupsets just aren't as smooth.

I need to hunt down a good roadie shop near to Manchester.

[s] Eddie McGraths in Urmston. Won't take mine anywhere else now.[/s]

Actually scratch that recommendation. I quite like them. They're nice people to deal with.

It wouldn't be fair 🙂

I've always found MTB shifting to be quicker and more precise than road bike.

run 10 year old ultegra/105 9 speed combo every day, ****ing sweet if you can adjust it every few months, keep it clean and lubed. sorted. Bikes run and run!

Bregante my roadie retired neighbour said the same. Chatting to him and mentioned that he rides Alp D'uez every year too. Made my fake-roadying look tame 😀

I would 2nd Eddie McGrath. They are a good bunch of lads.

You're expectations are what they usually are.

I'd like the finest components known to man, that will last for ever. But I want to pay next to nothing for them... in fact, absolutely nothing would be even better.

Then I'd like a team of customer support people, available 24 hours, to hang in on my every word, and to drop everything to cater to my endless whining, every non-sensical whim, and ridiculous expectations, then take care of the crushingly inevitable warranty claim.

Of course, none of these components will be purchased through a traditional bike shop, as I've had them all closed down. I will be expecting all this impeccable customer support from the one remaining retailer of bike parts in the country, based in a ****ing huge mega- warehouse in the Midlands, though for tax reasons the transactions say Luxembourg, and is staffed entirely by immigrants on minimum wage, zero-hours contracts

Reading this just made my day! Brilliant binners, just brilliant!

Anyway...

Gear Shift performance on a road bike is down to 3 things, and in order of importance they are...

1. Cable Routing
2. Cable Quality
3. Groupset Quality

Tiagra runs really sweetly on a bike with full external cable routing and decent quality cables for instance. You can put Ultegra or even Dura-Ace on a bike with nasty cable routing and poor quality cables, and you might as well ride a singlespeed...

Bear in mind that a lot of high(er) end frames these days are designed with Di2 in mind, and often the cable routing is a bit of an afterthought. Contrary to popular belief, 105 5700 actually performs very well indeed on many bikes despite the under the bar tape gear cable routing, the frame will need very clean and simple cable routing though and you'll want to use high quality cables. A friend has bought a new road bike not long ago, with a very high end frame but with 105 on it to get it going (he'll likely change to Di2 in the future when he can afford to). The frame is a peach, but... The cable routing is an absolute nightmare, it's a total afterthought as the frame has obviously been designed round Di2 from the ground up. Subsequently his CX bike gets ridden most of the time on the road right now, as even with good cables, the 105 on his good bike works terribly.

Many new road bikes come with just about acceptable cable routing, and average to poor gear cables. They will feel ok on the shop floor, but a couple of wet rides later and they'll struggle to shift (if you've got the gear cables routed under the bar tape at least).

Agreed. I think all road kit feels a bit cheap next to MTB stuff. Front mechs are a prime example: Very flimsy and why do you need trim on them? MTBs don't need it. (I reckon it's only there to give the rider something to do as road riding is so boring.... )
I've worked on everything up to Di2 and I think XT wipes the floor with any road group set. It just feels nicer, shifts better and is better made.

It's all down to cable routing. Most MTB's, even with XT transmissions, will likely still have external cable routing. Give it a bike with 150mm of rear travel, internal routing, and short/sharp bends in the outer between mainframe and swingarm and the swingarm and rear mech, and it'll be terrible! I can safely say that my road bike has the best internal cable routing I've seen (I've worked on a lot), the only bends being at the BB and under the bar tape. I've seen plenty of bikes with 45 degree bends where the outer goes into the frame! I'd be strapping a full outer to the outside of the frame if that was my bike rather than suffer the poor gear performance.

In fact, my MTB (with XT M780 shifters and mechs) doesn't shift as well as my road bike (with shock horror, SRAM Force/Red and internal cable routing) as it has internal routing on the top tube and there is maybe a 15-20 degree angle where the outers go into the frame compared to the angle the inner leaves at. Subsequently, gear shifting is poor unless very high quality cables are used.

FWIW, if you've got poor cable routing and/or poor quality cables fitted to your bike and you want to make it shift better, Shimano SP41 pre-greased outer and some 1.1mm Polymer coated inners goes a long way towards fixing it. The GF's new road bike with full external routing and Tiagra 4600 with Shimano cables still feels slicker than almost anything I've tried with Ultegra and internal cable routing though, no matter how posh the cables!

EDIT: Oh, and if you think XT feels nicer and better made than all road groupsets, you've obviously not yet played with mechanical Record or Super Record! It's hard to justify the Campag price tag, but their top tier groupsets are something else quality wise, even if just like everything else, they do wear out eventually (it's just that with Campag it is eventually rather than in a few years).

Ps. (OT) Bregante what is Urmston doing to celebrate Le Tour?

'Ruff Hudds is having a French garden 😉

www.examiner.co.uk/news/west-yorkshire-news/french-garden-appears-st-georges-7356100

Cheers mboy for your input. Blindingly obvious when you have it said to you I guess!

Binners when I die you'll be there waiting 😀

Road and MTB stuff are pretty similar really, so there shouldnt' be much difference. As above - cable routing, or fitting etc.

check your cabling

did you build the bike yourself?

was it a complete boxed bike?

the new 6800 and 9000 feel terrible in both brakes and gears (I'd describe both as "gritty") unless you use the genuine Shimano Polymer cabling or similar PTFE cabling

this is what you need:

brakes - CABBC68BK, Ultegra 6800 Road brake cable set, Polymer coated inners

gears - CABGR68BK, Ultegra 6800 Road gear cable set, Polymer coated inners

£30 for each set.

Seen a number of OE builds with jagwire or similar lower spec. cable and both the gears and brakes have felt very unpleasant, with the rear derailleur suffering some shifting lag

I've tried using the new cabling on my 6700 and the difference in brake and gear performance is noticeable compared to the older SP-41 cabling

No one has mentioned the chain?

I have Ultegra 6700 on two bikes. I made the mistake of fitting a (decent) SRAM chain once and the gearchanging became almost agricultural.

Make sure you are using a genuine 6701 chain and that it's fitted the correct way round (inner and outer plates are shaped differently).

No one has mentioned the chain?

Cos it's largely inconsequential, unless worn.

I have Ultegra 6700 on two bikes. I made the mistake of fitting a (decent) SRAM chain once and the gearchanging became almost agricultural.

What you're describing there is fitting a brand new chain on a cassette and chainrings that have worn. The old chain would have shifted very well as they all wore together, but the new chain would feel agricultural to start as it was not meshing well with the cassette. Replace the cassette too and it would shift perfectly again.

Make sure you are using a genuine 6701 chain and that it's fitted the correct way round (inner and outer plates are shaped differently).

Shimano chains don't last as long as SRAM or KMC IMO. KMC make most of Shimano's and SRAM's chains for them under license, but in my experience, KMC chains always last longer and shift as well if not better than anything else.

YMMV

Whilst you are at it mboy, want to teach onion how to suck eggs?

lolzor. new mechanic gives old school mechanic advice...

colin you checked its actually a bike you fitted the chain too ? - just checking you might not know what one of them is 😀

Another problem with internal cabling: on my Roubaix the cable exits the end of the chainstay in an upwards direction then enters the derailleur in a downwards direction, meaning that any water from road or washing dribbles into those plastic end ferrules carrying dirt with it and rusting up the internal reinforcements of the outers. During the winter I have to change the cable outer at the derailleur frequently and kee the ferrules well greased with Vaseline or even lanolin to keep the water out.

Good bike shop in Manchester = Harry Hall Cycles. Ask for Guy the mechanic, who resides upstairs.