[Closed] Ultegra groupset- unreasonable expectations?

[i]unreasonable expectations[/i]

any thread started by you with that in the title's probably only got one answer 😉

what to do you mean by not silky smooth? It clunks or there's some other noise or that it's just not like a swiss watch movement across the cassette?

did you set it up right?

Hidden cables? I was pretty surprised to compare my older 105 with newer kit, the cable routes used to be designed for shifting, now they're designed for looks and maybe "aero". But mostly looks I think.

My mountain bike gears feel more precise and smoother. The Ultegra takes effort to move across the (closer) ratio cassette which I thought would make it quicker/smoother.

It feels like old road bike gears compared (i.e old tech).

From memory only the front mech is hidden cables the rear runs external.

I'm not hugely impressed with the ultegra on my cube road bike either. It's definitely better than what i had on the old bike but it doesn't feel as good as say XTR vs Deore on my MTB's.

As above, it could be down to cable routing as much as the components themselves. is there any exposed cable you can pull by hand near the mech to see if it's smoother then?

I'm not hugely impressed with the ultegra on my cube road bike either. It's definitely better than what i had on the old bike but it doesn't feel as good as say XTR vs Deore on my MTB's

Ah I'm not alone 🙂

As above, it could be down to cable routing as much as the components themselves. is there any exposed cable you can pull by hand near the mech to see if it's smoother then?

will do later/check for snagging etc. Could be an idea to upgrade the outers and make sure they loop/curve abit more to allow freerer movement?

Time to upgrade to Di2 🙂

Clunky how? Upshift, downshift? Stiff? Don't like the lever feel?

Time to upgrade to Di2

I'm never going to be good enough to warrant mega-money stuff. 🙂

My 6800 is a definite improvement over my 5600, not that there's anything wrong with the 105.

New gears always seem mechanical till they wear in a bit.

good chance your mtb gears are just worn so your used to it feeling "smooth"

my XTR shifter/XTR rear mech combos both 950 and 970 both feel like my ultegra 6600 and 6700s. as you say mechanical and controled.

my deore set up i used to have felt silky smooth and not "clunky" - reality was it was just worn.

I'm never going to be good enough to warrant mega-money stuff.

You're not good enough to warrant Ultegra FWIW 😉

Obviously the answer to the thread is 'yes' though.

Ultegra should be very fast and precise, shouldn't feel clunky at all....

So that's why those Planet Xs were so cheap? The gears are actually Claris, with ultegra written on?

Clever.

Unless its OEM stuff (but why would it be different).

I guess give it time to break in. Probably had about <500miles so far.

[i]I'm never going to be good enough to warrant mega-money stuff[/i]

The mega-money stuff [b]makes[/b] you that good, duh.

The Tiagra on my cube road bike is fairly poor shifting, I was quite surprised how poor it felt compared to my mixture of XT cassette + one up cog,SLX mech,XT shifter on my mountain bike.

I've spent hours trying to get it to shift cleanly, and I've improved it, but its way off how my mongrel gears on the mountain bike shift, even when clagged up with mud and grit.

Was thinking about changing to ultegra, but probably not worth it.

Unless its OEM stuff (but why would it be different).

even when clagged up with mud and grit.

I run a full outer but even so the gritstone etc etc do get inside after months of use and washing. It still shifts beautifully and precise though compared.

Welcome to the world of OEM

Do they have two tiers of kit in the road world a la OEM?

not sure on road but loads of OEM stuff is ever so slightly different, heavier, cheaper, not as good so I wouldn't be surprised. Anyway who set it up for you? Is the cable run good & has it been set up right?

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You're expectations are what they usually are.

I'd like the finest components known to man, that will last for ever. But I want to pay next to nothing for them... in fact, absolutely nothing would be even better.

Then I'd like a team of customer support people, available 24 hours, to hang in on my every word, and to drop everything to cater to my endless whining, every non-sensical whim, and ridiculous expectations, then take care of the crushingly inevitable warranty claim.

Of course, none of these components will be purchased through a traditional bike shop, as I've had them all closed down. I will be expecting all this impeccable customer support from the one remaining retailer of bike parts in the country, based in a ****ing huge mega- warehouse in the Midlands, though for tax reasons the transactions say Luxembourg, and is staffed entirely by immigrants on minimum wage, zero-hours contracts

Get someone who knows about bikes to have a look ,it may just need set up properly.

To be fair the first generation of groupsets with hidden cables were widely slated for being a bit shit, and as Northwind says they designed the cable runs with aesthetics in mind, not performance. 7900/6700/5700 are all pretty nasty feeling at the lever IMO, lots of friction and not a very nice shift.

The new 11 speed groups (or the older external cabled 7800/6600/5600) are far better.

From memory only the front mech is hidden cables the rear runs external.

Unless you've got wildly different STIs they either both run under the bar tape, or both run external. I'd assume the former as it's a new bike. 6600 was superseded about 6 years ago.

Is the cable run good & has it been set up right

I need to hunt down a good roadie shop near to Manchester.

One thing I did note (not sure if all new bikes are like this though as I wouldn't set up my outers like this personally) - all the outers look alot shorter than I would cut them. So short that they rest quite firmly against the paint with no protection between (had to sort this asap). Could this effect shifting quality?

Try mid-range Campag and then go back to your bike; it will feel buttery smooth

"Campag wears in. Shimano wears out"

New gears always seem mechanical till they wear in a bit.

Nonsense. Ultegra should feel perfect from the outset.

Did you ream the ends of your cables properly? I've seen so many people suffering from poor shifting simply because the inner cable sleeve is fouling the cable.

I have various 105, Ultegra and Dura Ace groupsets and they all shift perfectly when set up correctly.

If it "slams" into gear when moving down the sprocket, just back off the inline adjuster slightly - it should just snick in with minimal noise.

"Campag wears in. Shimano wears out"

This is BS (talking as a long term Campag-phile). Unsuprisingly both wear out. Campag just has a more definite shift action (which some would call clunky - YMMV). It's just personal preference.

New gears always seem mechanical till they wear in a bit.

This is also BS IMO. Ultegra and pretty much any groupset from Sora upwards should shift smoothly and easily when new.

Cable runs sound like the problem to me.

Any recommendations for a decent road bike shop in Manchester?

I'll take some pics later of the outers- I personally think they look abit short but then in road-terms it could be viewed as economical with length is best.

Once it beds in a bit I expect it'll be fine.

I thought you didn't see the point of [s]self-serving, greedy, grasping bike shops[/s] community hubs, and certainly wouldn't be darkening their door EVER, as you hoped that the sooner they got the bankruptcy they so richly deserve, the better?

binners you really are my nemesis 8)

Not me? 🙁

Well I've got to have some purpose in life

😀

Not me?

You're my nemesis, nemesis.

Binners is [i]my[/i] nemesis.

"Campag wears in. Shimano wears out"

Tiagra on mine, and the mech end is as crisp as anything I've ridden on any other bike. Just needs adjusting right. If anything, it'll be smoother than XT/X0 which have huge springs and reverb right thru the frame when new. Lever end is maybe a bit more vague in feel, on the release lever. Feels a bit plasticky compared to XT, which is probably becasue it is.

I'm never going to be good enough to warrant mega-money stuff.

Sell it to fund 105 di2?

I've not used any of the new groupsets, but my 7800 is still silky smooth and apparently 9000/6800/5800 is a return to form so if it's not great on your's I'd look at the cables and their routing. Maybe try thinner cables and R&R cable magic?

This is BS (talking as a long term Campag-phile). Unsuprisingly both wear out. Campag just has a more definite shift action (which some would call clunky - YMMV). It's just personal preference.

You're right, it is personal preference. However my experience of a brand new Campag Veloce group set was that it was - frankly - crap. Agricultural is too complimentary an adjective. My personal preference is for something considerably smoother and quieter.

GT85
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😆

Possibly older campag was better quality but I was thoroughly put off by modern campag when I was looking around before purchase.

The Veloce etc just looks shit. almost like die-cast cheap halford stuff.

The newer 11speed ultegra is a lot nicer, lighter shifting and smoother. Not stupid money either, but your current stuff should work fine, bent mech hanger?

I reckon that Campag are struggling to keep up with Shimano and SRAM given the relative sizes of the companies. I do agree that their cheaper stuff looks a lot less refined (though IME it seems to work fine).

I'm 'new' to road riding so I'm probably way out/wrong but would love to know. My Ultegra 6800 isn't silky-smooth shifting, it shifts (it doesn't need adjusting and isn't skipping/part-shift or dry chain etc), it just feels clunky and plastic-flimsy-feeling.

Agreed. I think all road kit feels a bit cheap next to MTB stuff. Front mechs are a prime example: Very flimsy and why do you need trim on them? MTBs don't need it. (I reckon it's only there to give the rider something to do as road riding is so boring.... 😉 )
I've worked on everything up to Di2 and I think XT wipes the floor with any road group set. It just feels nicer, shifts better and is better made.

If you want a good road-orientated bike shop near you, head out of streftord through alty and then onto Northwich, go to Dave Hinde cycles and talk to Dave, he would be just the kind of person to help you

clunky = solid/positive feeling shifting which is what a high end shift should feel like - not a "mis shifting" clunky - sora and ultegra are MILEs apart after 500 miles IME in the quality of shift - even if its all clean and nice with new cabling.

Deore feels like that when new - then the shifts soften off sharply as it wears out at the jockey wheels and the pivots etc.

YMMV