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I would be pissed if they used gorilla tape though rather than the proper stuff.
Gorilla Tape is increasingly the "go to" rim tape of choice I'm afraid... Yes, it's a pain to clean up after you remove it, but it just works more often than not! Stans Yellow tapes and their ilk are often very unforgiving of many rim shapes, and they're very brittle and tear easily if you're not careful. So...
LBS near me just advertised tubeless set up - rim tape, valves, sealant and fitting for £59 a pair. Might try and wangle club discount off that....
Fact is, if a business agrees a fixed price and then renegs without explanation I wouldn't have faith in using them again, be it plumber, mechanic, whatever.
They could have taken a small hit, explained the issue that meant they needed the extra tape and valve and had a customer for life
Wish them luck in their venture, trot on to the next LBS.
Fact is, if a business agrees a fixed price
Then you take in a much more involved job, but could be described the same way? (‘Set it up tubeless’) esp if the op had said he had done most of it himself.
Should they always quote worst case? ‘£30 to add sealant, RIP OFF!!!111one’ etc
Businesses should do everything they can to avoid even the appearance of a bait and switch.
So yes, that means that if a customer calls you up and says, 'I've done three quarters of the job already, how much will it be to finish it?' then the answer is, 'We charge £30 to set up tubeless tyres, if we find that there is less work then we can reduce that price but we're not promising anything.'
The LBS should have taken the £20 hit and considered it the price they paid to learn the lesson not to under-quote.
Instead, they chose not to pay for the lesson, probably won't learn anything, continue to leave customers unhappy, and then complain about 'stupid customers' when they go out of business.
Didn’t they quote the job without any parts, as the OP said he had fitted them? Admittedly they probably should have told him he needed new tape etc when it became apparent, but would he then have said ‘nah I’ll leave it then’? Of course not.
If he had just gone in and said ‘ I’m struggling, can you set it up tubeless?’ then I would have thought they’d have just got the desired outcome.
Been running tubeless for years, ultimately I've found that bog standard insulating tape is the best rim tape there is! It takes at least 3 or four wraps to get it right but the fact that you can stretch it as you apply it ensures a good seal every time, and any width of rim is ok as the multiple wraps will go edge to edge. Oh and of course it's super cost effective.
So many arm chair experts on this post.
You've paid for a convenient service at a price that's not unreasonable.
DIY it next time if you don't like it.
LBS here charged me £32.50 to do mine last month, I took it round there because I couldn't get the new tyre on the rim. I thought it was worth it, new rim tape which it needed and two new stans valves. Plus I watched him put the tyre on the rim so hopefully I can do it myself next time.
Didn’t they quote the job without any parts, as the OP said he had fitted them? Admittedly they probably should have told him he needed new tape etc when it became apparent, but would he then have said ‘nah I’ll leave it then’? Of course not.
So yes, that means that if a customer calls you up and says, ‘I’ve done three quarters of the job already, how much will it be to finish it?’ then the answer is, ‘We charge £30 to set up tubeless tyres, if we find that there is less work then we can reduce that price but we’re not promising anything.’
Like I said, even a whiff of bait and switch leaves a nasty taste in the mouth. The LBS should have learned from this encounter but it sounds like they haven't and will continue to act in the same way. But of course, it is always the 'stupid customer's' fault.
But of course, it is always the ‘stupid customer’s’ fault.
He's not a stupid customer, he's over-optimistic and a little bit Rainman though.
I couldn't disagree with your more on this, the LBS did absolutely nothing wrong. They're there to earn a wage, that's all... You or I wouldn't work for £10 an hour, why should they ?
I couldn’t disagree with your more on this, the LBS did absolutely nothing wrong. They’re there to earn a wage, that’s all… You or I wouldn’t work for £10 an hour, why should they ?
Please point out where I said the price was unreasonable. Did you read all my post or just every third word?
LBSs are closing all the time. You can try to learn something when you have a customer who seems unhappy (and yes, sometimes you have to pay for your lessons) or you can get huffy and say things like, 'people expect you to work for nothing.'
The ones that will stay open are the ones that are learning from each negative encounter and alter how they deal with customers accordingly.
That was my perception of your comment, i apologise if that's incorrect.. Of course the customer is unhappy, as will another 10 others today as society has dictated that everyone wants something for nothing, as per the OPs first post. Where do you draw the line ? How many lessons do you learn day after day after day from 'public' before you think "Sod it, i need to make a living too"
I totally get the customer service thing, but there's limits and i'm not seeing anything the LBS did here as even slightly wrong.
You don't even detect a whiff of bait and switch?
I used to run a workshop for a large bike shop. I learned early on that it's OK to charge less than the quoted price but charging more, regardless of the circumstances, is always going to lead to unhappy customers, even if it's 100% justified.
Sometimes it's unavoidable but in those cases it's important to call the customer and let them know before you do the work what the new price is going to be.
Ultimately I decided that working in a bike shop wasn't for me. I'm one of those people who, if I have 19 great encounters with customers and one bad one, I'll be thinking about the bad one for the rest of the week. It did make me really focused on not giving customers anything to be unhappy about though.
Argh, I usually don’t comment once a thread goes argy-bargy, but I must admit I also struggle to understand the point of BruceWee’s post.
If your point was that the shop could have done a better job of communicating with the OP before and after the work, then yes, I agree.
Should you be in the business owners position, I’m not sure your pricing policy would be a sustainable approach.
But, yes, its all about communication.
You don’t even detect a whiff of bait and switch?
No, i'm missing it... From what i can see, they did the job, but it needed re-taping... I guess we'll never actually know if it did, but we can assume possibly so.... Why would you un-tape and re-tape a wheel if it didn't need it ? It's not like a Kwik Fit job of fitting new pads and discs etc, that actually brings a decent profit. If they've fitted new tape and fluid that wasn't needed tehy're still only making about an extra Fiver...
I would venture that most of the people on here are the 'in crowd' type customers at LBSs. It's not really surprising then that many would leap to the defense of a LBS against a customer seemingly wanting something for nothing.
However, a lot of bike shops are not providing good customer service:
https://www.bicycling.com/culture/a27496999/bike-shops-need-change/
In the case of the OP they initially quoted £10. Once the customer was in the door they changed the scope of work but didn't tell the customer about the new price. When the manager was questioned about it he got defensive and shouty.
The prices were fair, presumably the work was done to a high standard, but the customer service was shit. Now they've lost at least one customer and their reputation has suffered as the OP won't be recommending the shop to anyone.
It's good to support LBSs but it's not good to tell them they are 100% in the right when they are not. If you want to continue defending shit customer service then don't come crying to me when your LBS shuts down because of 'stupid customers'.
Can you (weeksy) not see that the whole issue of the OP is not paying £30 for the job? It's having to pay £30 with the expectation that it would be £10. Laughing at the idea that everyone on here (some of whom are from Yorkshire) would be all smiles and taking a wide perspective on the matter, if it happened to them.
Of course the price sounds fair, given what was involved, but why quote a ridiculous low price that is only going to cause bad feeling when you can't deliver it? [And it was ridiculous in this case - you can sometimes set up tubeless from scratch very quick, but fixing a setup that isn't holding air will almost always need a retape to sort out].
you need to re-read the OP. He literally says that when he took to wheel in, more was required than when explained over the phone (which was when the original ESTIMATE of £10 was given), and “I didn’t ask how much that would cost”with the expectation that it would be £10
I thought from the first thread that he was not happy that the shop were charging too much for the parts when they could be bought in bulk cheaper.
OP is on another planet though. According to his calcs the shop owner has to buy things at the cheapest possible internet price, sell them on for the exact same price, then charge a pittance for labour. How much of that £10 do you think is left for the shop owner once he’s paid all his overheads/staff and then the VAT & tax men have taken their share?!
That's the bit I don't get. I don't need to use bike workshops and when I do its usually that I don't have time to sort it myself. However when I do I expect to pay the going rate for what I've had done and have never thought I was been ripped off or overcharged.
The OP was initially quoted £10.
Once he was in the door they changed the scope of work but didn’t tell him the new price.
When the manager was questioned about it he got defensive and shouty.
The OP came on here and everyone put him right (I didn't notice anyone agreeing that he'd been ripped off).
The shop ****ed up by not informing him about the new price before starting and then getting shouty instead of explaining/apologising for not informing him beforehand. But apparently it's 100% the OPs fault and he's the reason LBSs are closing all the time. Stupid customers.
Not even the OP agrees with you there. He specifically said he didn’t ask the price as he knew it would be reasonable - which it was 😂
"Arm chair experts" Lolz 😆 (I'm in an office chair I'll have you know)
As an LBS owner, this thread is a heartening read. Thanks (mostly) all! We're not opportunistic scum preying on vulnerable cyclists, mostly we're trying to give the best we can to the most cyclists while also paying skilled staff as fairly as possible.
Yes, you are paying for the shop's time, skills, tools, resources, experience and convenience. And, in the case of tubeless, sometimes for someone else to clean up the mess as well.
The OP's shop should have communicated better - "it's normally £10 to fit a tubeless tyre" should have been "it costs from £10 to fit a tubeless tyre", or "it can be up to £30 to fit a tubeless tyre if lots of stuff needs removing and / or you need new tape / valve / sealant".
So no, OP I don't think you've been overcharged at all. The LBS did the job you wanted them to do and I think under £30 is a pretty reasonable price including parts. However, I think the LBS should have better managed your expectations, and been better at explaining themselves when you queried it.
I also don't think Gorilla tape is particularly great, but each to their own on that one... 😉
The thing to remember about the people on this thread is that this is the 'in crowd', ie, knowledgeable customers and probably isn't representative of your average punter. It's not your customer's responsibility to understand the inner workings of a bike shop's finances. From the article I linked above:
“Customers, when they come in, they don’t really care if you’re profitable or what your inventory turn is or your payroll. They want great customer service, they want a great inventory, they want a well-stocked service department...
If you're a manager/owner and a customer questioning your pricing causes you to get 'defensive and shouty' like in the OP's shop then this probably isn't the right job for you.
If this manager had managed to explain things to the OP in the first place there would have been no need for this thread.
It’s not your customer’s responsibility to understand the inner workings of a bike shop’s finances.
It is if they want to make a claim that they have been ripped off. Otherwise what are they basing the price on and how are they determining it was a ripoff?
If I was given a quote, then ended up paying three times that, and then got shouted at when I questioned the bill that would be enough for me to suspect I'd been ripped off.
My point is that this place is an echo-chamber of in-crowd customers. Bike shops are not going to survive if they rely on the in-crowd.
By all means, if you're an LBS owner, then read this thread, assume that all your customers understand the value of your services, don't try to learn anything from your negative encounters, and let us know how you're getting on two years down the line.
My point is that this place is an echo-chamber of in-crowd customers. Bike shops are not going to survive if they rely on the in-crowd.
I for one am not an 'in-crowd customer'. I never go to bike shops as they generally know less than I do (I ride specific bikes) and never stock what I am after (I ride specific bikes).
If I was given a quote, then ended up paying three times that, and then got shouted at when I questioned the bill that would be enough for me to suspect I’d been ripped off.
When they told me more work was required than initially thought I would have asked "how much extra will that be". If I felt the price was too high I would have told them not to do it.
As for the customer service part, yes the shop seemed shit and I wouldn't use them again if I had that experience in a shop.
What this thread makes me wonder part 2:
Whose rims last longer than the tubeless tape? I know modern rims and disc brakes keep them going longer, but I've several moderately dented rims still on their original wrap, can't see rim tape removal being an issue. Maybe I'm missing something as my longest running one is on rubber rim stops and second longest has a no tape required Mavic rim. Or do people just re-wrap for fun?
I recently had to rewrap my rims when I changed the valves to Rimpact ones and they they kept leaking around the valve holes. Rims are almost four years old, Stans Flow EX. I've only ever used proper rim tape on them - although having used the clear Gorilla tape for other purposes (including a temporary iphone screen repair) I can see it would work well if the width was right.
Sometimes mine have needed a re-wrap due to using the much maligned Gorilla tape. Reason is when you pull the tyre off it deforms the edge of the tape too. So you need to re-tape it.
It takes <10 mins all in, so i care very little.
Communication is a fairly common problem that runs both ways.
Customer brings bike in for job.
If it's going to cost more you email and call customer, who doesn't respond and then gets annoyed the work hasn't been done.
Or
You do the work and customer gets annoyed it's a higher price than quoted.
What this thread makes me wonder part 2:
Whose rims last longer than the tubeless tape? I know modern rims and disc brakes keep them going longer, but I’ve several moderately dented rims still on their original wrap, can’t see rim tape removal being an issue. Maybe I’m missing something as my longest running one is on rubber rim stops and second longest has a no tape required Mavic rim. Or do people just re-wrap for fun?
Common reasons;
Replacing a broken spoke/nipple
Rim tape damaged by tyre lever
Re doing a bad tape job
Clear Gorilla failed for me - And I always use regular Gorilla with zero issues ..