Forum menu
I'd be more concerned that a proper bike shop would use gorilla tape. Unless you insisted on it and even then I'd rather they just declined it. It's one thing botching it at home it's entirely another thing paying for it to be botched. It's the bike equivalent of taking you car to get some body repairs done and having them zip tie it back together.
People moan about the cost of pretty much any service these days. My wife runs an accountancy business and spends probably 50% of her working day arguing with clients about their fees. I ran my own business for a while too (B2B) and experienced much the same thing. People just don't want to pay for experience and decent service these days. The prevailing culture seems to be getting as much as you can for as little cost as possible. I just can't imagine what it must be like to be a bike shop owner these days!
Out of interest, why do people use gorilla tape rather than the many bespoke tubeless tapes available. Is it just a cost thing or is it better/lighter/easier to use?
I've always used stans tape.
I saw this the other day and was a bit surprised
https://www.uberbikecomponents.com/view-product/Uberbike-Race-Matrix-Tubeless-Conversion-Kit-500ml
Incidentally, sealant, valves and gorilla tape are £29.99 which doesnt include labour and isn't as expensive as muckoff sealant
I find clear gorilla tape to be more fit for purpose than the correct tape (which is not tape made specifically for purpose , it's just off the shelf tape that someone picked back in the day)
Clear gorilla tape more resilliant, sticks better , easier to work with and just as easy to remove.
Anyone that uses fiberous gorilla tape on their rims needs strung up with the stuff. Horrible to remove and breaks down with the sealant over time.
I use clear waterproof gorilla tape on the fat bike because it was wide enough rather than several wraps of Stans. Works well.
I bet OP is fun when it comes to bill time in the restaurant.
Gorilla tape is not the right tool for the job
it's the best!
Out of interest, why do people use gorilla tape rather than the many bespoke tubeless tapes available. Is it just a cost thing or is it better/lighter/easier to use?
For me, it's because I've had better results with it than with other tape
OP - I don't know what you do to earn a living, but I suggest you jack it in now and open a bike shop instead. As you've discovered, you can easily undercut all your competitors and you'll soon be on your way to owning your own yacht/Chelsea tractor/lifestyle van.
Out of interest, why do people use gorilla tape rather than the many bespoke tubeless tapes available. Is it just a cost thing or is it better/lighter/easier to use?
I think it’s more from the ghetto days when there wasn’t much tubeless stuff about and your rim may even not have been designed for tubeless, it’s cheap easily bought and works.
You use it for 2 reasons to seal the wheel a bit an pack up the bead and on nightmare rims may need a fair bit for packing.
I’ve always used stans tape.
Which I think is pretty much same as a roll of tesa tape on eBay but you get 66m for 11 quid as opposed to 10m for 13 quid+(YMMV)
So! Who had fried rice?
I know quite a number of people (who tend to work in the same industry - not the same as mine) who are obsessed with getting the cheapest possible deal for everything but massively affronted when anyone questions their costs.
OP - you weren’t able to do something. You took it to someone who could and they charged you for their expertise. Tell us what you do and how much you expect to be paid for doing it and we can give you reasons why we shouldn’t have to pay for it 😉
I think the problem with the OPs version of what he considers fair is the £10 labour charge.
Say £10 labour is fair for 30mins labour, totalling £19 for time and materials...
The shop still has to make a money on top of that and has other overheads to consider, rent, utility bills etc.
When you consider that, £29 total isn't looking so unreasonable any more, no?
I once had a puncture whilst out and about, couldn't get my tyre back on for the life of me, so after a long walk to the nearest bike shop they sorted it out for £10.
Sounds expensive for such a small job but considering I was basically stranded and it included a new inner tube, you can't really complain when you think about it.
The shop still has to make enough money above paying the staff and supplying parts to continue to operate.
Why not just fit a tube? 😂
Did the price include VAT @ 20%?
Why not just fit a tube? 😂
But would he be prepared to pay his LBS £15 to do it?
Sounds fair to me
I'm not in the cycle trade, but I feel sorry for those who are when the average customer does't value their time if/when they need them.
Once you allow for NI and pension costs, seasonality, average utilisation within the seasons, the hours productive/sold and a share of the shop overhead, £9 per hour becomes £25 per hour cost before VAT, or £30 with VAT to break even.
At £11 per hour it's £34.50 inc VAT per hour to break even.
At £9 salary, I can't see how any cycle shop is expected to sell their time for anything less than about £45 per hour, making the shop about £12 per hour after VAT with the above assumptions. Even then, a pretty poor return for the owner given the risk.
That assumes the person is on retail work all of the time, and not bike building and so on.
has he gone off to start his own tubeless tyre fitting service ?????????
Was going to mention VAT , that's another fiver gone.
Price of everything, value of nothing.
The prevailing culture seems to be getting as much as you can for as little cost as possible.
Dead right. And the repercussions are that skilled people just say stuff it and can't make a living.
We all lose.
As has been said. The OP seems to know the cost of everthing and the value of nothing!
“The OP seems to know the cost of everthing and the value of nothing!”
As I said, I don’t have an issue with the labour charge as I was paying for that experience applied through the labour charge.
I was questioning whether I should be charged for the individual items as single items, or whether the lbs could be using bulk buy.
Out of interest, why do people use gorilla tape rather than the many bespoke tubeless tapes available. Is it just a cost thing or is it better/lighter/easier to use?
in the near past before lots of companies started making proper tubeless tape gorilla tape was pretty much the only thing to use. but these days there is a lot of tape available that's specifically designed for the job rather than using tape for a job it's not designed for
I was questioning whether I should be charged for the individual items as single items, or whether the lbs could be using bulk buy.
They bulk buy, where possible, to take advantage of discount splits from suppliers. Sell more, but more, make a slightly better margin.
They then sell you those items individually.
Now, how much do you think Sainsburys pay at source for a packet of light bulbs? Hint - it's a lot less than the price that comes up on the till, and yet I bet you, along with every one else, would never whine about it.
How come bike shops are supposed to different to any other retailer? Let alone want other specialist retailer providing a service alongside products.
I was questioning whether I should be charged for the individual items as single items, or whether the lbs could be using bulk buy.
You were buying individual items. You get the individual item price. What the shop buys them for is nothing to do with you.
I buy a single bottle of pop for £1.09 (or 2 for £2) at the corner shop, knowing they buy in bulk at Costco for £12 for 24 bottles. By your logic I should get in a huff that they’ve charged me more than 50p.
specifically
designedmarketed for the job rather than using tape for a job it’s notdesignedmarketed forFtfy
As I said, I don’t have an issue with the labour charge as I was paying for that experience applied through the labour charge
This was actually where I saw issues in your calculations
Your calculations came out at £19 inc. labour, but they had quoted you £10 to fit the tyre alone. Add the labour cost of removing existing tape and valve, cleaning and fitting new, gets you to your £29 easy
I work part-time as a bike mechanic and we charge £20/wheel for tubeless. Sometimes it's is a right faff, needing to jet wash the wheel to clean it properly, scrub off the tape residue, requiring multiple attempts, sealant all over the floor, removing the pump head from the compressor hose to maximise flow and a couple of pairs of hands to hold the tyre down firmly. Other times it takes just a few minutes with the right tyres and rim combo. More often than not DIY failure is down to poor taping. Also Gorilla or any cloth-backed tape for tubeless is rubbish - it soaks up sealant and comes unglued - you have to scrape-off the residue, clean the rim and apply something like Tesa or Kapton tape.
As someone said above put the money towards an airshot or similar device and tubeless setup will be a doddle. As far as gorilla tape goes I've used it myself without issues but I wouldn't expect a shop to use it without telling me beforehand. If they've removed tape, cleaned rim and fitted new tape, valves and sealant I'd say the cost isn't over the top
gorilla tape, set of an animals..
Just so I understand, the OP agreed with the shop that he would provide a Gorilla taped wheel with valve and they would fit the tire for £10.
When he got the wheel back they had removed the old tape, fitted new tape, and provided another valve without telling him? They then charged him £29.
Regardless of value, that to me says the shop really needs to work on its customer communication.
why the hate for gorila tape?
ive removed other tape to fit it. its more robust and seals first time. Ok youve got to use some ipa to clean your rim but youd be doing that anyway when you retaped?
why the hate for gorila tape?
I don't hate it, but it is not the correct tape to use, it is a do it all tape. Use it yourself by all means but a shop who should be doing things professionally shouldn't use it.
I wouldn't expect to take my bike to a shop to have headset fitted and find them using a hammer and a block of wood yet it works fine (or has done the numerous times I have fitted headsets)
Not in the same trade but if I was fixing someones car for them off the books...no building costs or special equipment needed..i could easily charge them £60-£100 an hour for that work...as I AM FULLY QUALIFIED AND EXPERIENCED ...fully qualified and experienced personal are EXPENSIVE and so by the time your at part costs..that racks up.. besides who do you call when you cant do it? Eh...a PROFFESIONAL..they cost money ..I resent paying a shop so do most of my work on my bikes so I taught myself but not dabbled in tubeless or wheel building or straightening
.so would pay a PROFFESIONAL to do it for me ..
It costs what it costs ..if that's a big problem ..then buy the kit(I could wager that's expensive then the occasional visit to the shop) and do it yourself
Which would you prefer they used:-
A small new sachet of fresh sealant that will be good for the next six months in your tyre?
Or the dregs of a 5 litre opened bottle that has been on the shelf for the last six months, where half the hole sealing particles are now stuck to the base of the bottle and won't go anywhere near your tyre?
I think I might buy a bunch of clear gorilla tape and change the packaging to "tubeless tape"
There will be a market as it appears people will only use the marketed stuff despite there being better products.
Stan's tape is shite.
People moan about the cost of pretty much any service these days
Internets innit. Everything can be shopped around for on the cheap. Cheap bits can be had on ebay for pennies from China, if you don't mind waiting for delivery... but then when someone wants a [i]service[/i] from a real person using toil and their actual hands ... hey? Why can't I get this for pennies?! Sad really. But try sending your wheel and tyre to someone online and getting it sorted for less than £28.50. (I'll do it for £27, but you'd pay the return postage)
Good point. And what you really need to be able to do is send your wheel to China, India etc,. and get it fixed there. The labour would be 50 pence.
Is the answer to "Have I been overcharged for this work by my LBS" ever yes? (I think I might remember once when it was.
My best job ever was working saturdays as a mechanic/salesman in the LBS. Part of me would love to do it again, but even if I started my own business to do it I can't see how I'd pay the bills let alone go home in the Lambo.
When everyone (myself included tbh) moans at the lack of expertise/service in the majority of bike shops, but then refuses to pay for the service, wtf are we meant to do? The rates need to double if you're going to get a good mechanic to stay at the job when they get to having a partner and kids. And you still get people who can't do the job themselves complaining about the "ridiculous cost".
6 pints of beer on a night out is what you're questioning here. FFS.
a shop who should be doing things professionally shouldn’t use it
wrong, wrong, wrong.
Having spent 3 days so far trying to unsuccessfully to install a set of tubeless tyres after years of no issues what so ever, I would happily pay this. I would be pissed if they used gorilla tape though rather than the proper stuff.
Slight thread diversion here. Set up tyres tubeless over the weekend. Used my new Bontrager floor pump/airshot combo, worked great. I ended up using black 25m gorilla tape, when I couldn't get the blue rim tape that came with my 2 year old Trance to stick to the rim at all. (I had alcohol cleaned it etc etc...) I'm fully aware of future ball-ache gorilla sticky ramifications. I couldn't find clear Gorilla tape anywhere other than 50mm wide? - name the source of narrower clear tape please!
When you’ve alcohol cleaned the rim I’ve found you then need to wipe it down with a clean / dry cloth to completely remove any residue.
If you used gorilla tape with fibres in it, you’ll find it gradually absorbs the sealant and gets less sticky - but still makes a mess of your rim. I personally wouldn’t go out to find more gorilla tape.
I’ve found the wtb branded stuff works well - better than the DT Swiss stuff from my experience. Just make sure the rim is clean, and get it in a size a couple of my wider than the internal width of your rim. One wrap round with an overlap either side of the valve.
I would be pissed if they used gorilla tape though rather than the proper stuff.
Take a bit more than that to drive me to drink.
TLDR!
But in answer... The prevalence of people who have got hours to spend posting long drawn out posts on an internet forum, asking have they been overcharged, then investing huge amounts of time/effort themselves to do it all themselves (whilst slagging off said LBS) in the future is a huge part of why I have closed my shop down!
As for costs... I used to charge...
£5 labour for swapping a tyre
£5 for slug of sealant (yes from 1L workshop bottle, but it's always more than you think, and there's always some spill which needs clearing up too, even if its just on your tyre sidewalls)
£5 for rim tape (usually 2 wraps of Stans type yellow tape, but sometimes different rims required all sorts of crazy solutions and Gorilla Tape was often the only answer, but usually after finding out that Yellow Tape just wasn't up to the job, all my own costs I couldn't pass on of course)
£7 for the valve... Cos that's the Stan's RRP, and in the last 3 years they'd not only increased the price quite a bit, but usually not available to buy in bulk boxes so I had to stop selling them for £5 as I wasn't making any money!
So £22 all in... But the £5 labour is assuming it's a very quick job, and often they aren't!
Oh, and the cost of keeping HUGE numbers of different rim tapes in different widths and constructions in stock, to be able to cater for any rim that just so happens to come into the shop... And the compressor I've invested in. And the 16+ years of running tubeless myself and trying just about every combo you can imagine and the experience gained from that of what will and won't work, and how to get the tyres to stay up (just because it says "tubeless" doesn't necessarily mean it will just work for everyone!)...
I think the OP is being quite unreasonable myself, but then that's the biggest problem with the bike industry... Customers expectations of "it's just a bike, how can it cost that much" when the reality is it's a fairly complex piece of equipment that requires a lot of specialist tools, knowledge and maintenance to keep it going!
As a business owner (not a bike shop tho, I'm not daft 😃), I love it when people come in and itemise a list of materials that I'll be using, adding on a small amount "for my time", and presenting the total as the price they believe it is fair to pay. Of course neglecting to factor in rent/rates/electricity/tools/staff/admin/etc, years of experience & the ability to do a job they can't do themselves ("it only took you 10 minutes!" yes but that 10 mins took 10 years of practice 😂) and the fact I have the temerity to want to put food on my table and even tuck a bit away for my eventual retirement. I say "people" not "customers" as they are quickly shown the door 😂 Fortunately it doesn't happen very often as most people aren't really that clueless.