I accept ust rims and tyres are heavier due to their double sidewall and most I'm reading was exactly my opinion until my newest bike came with stock ust I was blown away. I've lost very little pressure (don't want to say none as some science buff will probably shoot me down)
I also carry an innertube in case of a puncture as don't want to be messing about with that nonsense on the streets of Nottingham.
Yes ust are heavier but require no sealant
Tubeless are lighter but DO require sealant which is both messy and costly (and builds up in the tyre negating the extra weight loss) - I'm trying to be biased but ant help myself - sorry
Tubes are familiar, friendly and easy
Er .... Guess the debate goes on
Tubeless/UST isn't some sort of panacea...
Any damage bad enough to split a tubeless tyre sidewall would still have wrecked a tubed tyre as well so I can't see that as a legitimate criticism of tubeless.
Nothing is ever perfect.
And whatever tubeless setup you use, you will no doubt run into some frustrating issue or another eventually, but then tubes are hardly infallible either, we've all been on rides where some poor bugger gets through several tubes.
I wouldn't say tubeless removes the issue of flats, simply that IME failures are less frequent with tubeless, obviously the trade off is more faff getting the tyres fitted (just don't try to do it 10mins before a ride) and more mess when you do have to fix a flat, it generally suits people who will ride the same tyres most of the time, rather than "serial tyre changers"...
[i]Any damage bad enough to split a tubeless tyre sidewall would still have wrecked a tubed tyre as well so I can't see that as a legitimate criticism of tubeless. [/i]
any future side split repair is held in position and protected by the tube, even if its as simple as the piece toothpaste tube. IME flexing in the sidewall has the tendancy of weakening permanent repairs and breaking any latex seal.
i went tubeless a couple of years ago, initially ghetto and then proper stans rims. I used to pinch flat nearly every ride despite running high pressures. Since then i've flatted once (thorn) stopped, pumped it up and carried on.
won't use tubes again
I accept ust rims and tyres are heavier
But you said about the saved weight as one of your 4 benefits - are you saying that's not really a benefit at all, and it's psychological?
UST certainly has it's benefits over other tubeless systems, but it's big detractor (IMO) is the weight.
You'll never totally get rid of tubes, there will always be a place for them, but that shouldn't be a high end MTB 😉
I struggle with long sentences but
For me, you swap mid-ride faff for some non-riding faff. Personally, I prefer messing about with my bike in my garage rather than out on the trails so tubeless is spot on.
I've got three bikes tubeless now - two mtbs and a CX.
The two mtbs are a doddle - One with a Bontrager rim/strip, normal tyre and sealant, the other with a Mavic non-UST rim, rim strip and normal tyres. Basically I put it all together, inflate, ride. That's it. No more puntures (pinch in particular) but I do usually have to pump up my tyres a bit before each ride.
My CX bike has been more troublesome probably because of the higher pressures but once it's right (sometimes takes a couple of attempts at fitting, leaving overnight, riding it etc to get it just right and not deflate through a ride) it's great as it allows me to run much lower pressures without getting pinches as soon as I look at a rock.
I can't see myself ever going back to tubes.
That all said, if I rarely got punctures with tubes, I would probably stick with them.
Oh and I'm not convinced that they're faster/feel better to any significant degree.
FWIW - I went tubeless using Schwalbe bmx innertubes and stams sealant for less than £20, on the stock Alex ZX 24 rims that came with my bike, and Schwalbe Nobby Nic's. The tyres are billed as 'tubeless-ready' as far as I know. Not a problem so far, I just carry my spare tube in a ziplock bag, so if I need to swap out the sealant covered 'rim strip' I've got something to put it in to keep my pocket clean..
Minimal weight saving I guess, but the ability to run lower pressures without pinching is worth the minor faff to begin with IMO.
im obviously missing something, why dont you need sealant with UST tyres? what stops punctures?
UST, Stans + Yellow tape + UST or normal tyres, ghetto +normal tyres. Use them all and never going back to tubes except as a trail fix. Go with Mavic or Stans rims and Maxxis tyres and you'll miss much of the faff that many get. Ok so you might not get your fave condomesque tyre on reliably but if weight weenieism is your goal then you should look elsewhere.
im obviously missing something, why dont you need sealant with UST tyres? what stops punctures?
UST tyres are a bit thicker, but that's all. Nothing seals any holes you do manage to put in them obviously.
Just swapped out a Nobby Nic and a Spec Control for a pair of Mud Xs, all the sealant had dried up, managed to pump up the tyres with a normal (not track) pump.
5 thorns in front tyre, 3 in rear, so that's 8 punctures (at least) that I've been saved since I rode over a spike or something that shredded my rear tyre in June.
Ust rims and tyres are heavier than tubeless. Standard tyres with tubes are heavier still. That's what I meant by heavier
As for ust filling holes - nothing does but the magic of air pressure in the tyre. Like Dynamo - magic
So if I use a ust tyre with ust rim should I use sealant? Surely I should....
If I just have ust rims it is my understanding I can use some normal tyres (with sealant), what is the advantage of using a proper ust tyre - just tougher?
Sorry for idiot questions...
Dave
UST tyres are tougher than their tubed equivalents and are therefore heavier.
If you don't use sealant with your UST tyres then you have the same puncture protection as a normal tyre.
I don't know how easy it is to use normal tyres with UST rims, I would assume you will need sealant.
I used Stans Crest rims and can get Nobby Nics, Spec Controls and Mud Xs to seal with out sealant (for how long I haven't bothered finding out), all have gone up and stayed up increadably easily, only 1 puncture and that was a nail or spike that went right through and gouged the centre of the rim, put a tube in and because it was dark I then went on to ride 30 miles in the dark with the inner tube bulging out of the centre of the tread 🙂
Ust don't need sealant. Some use for peace of mind. I use the thought that if it's good enough for motorcycles it's good enough for me
Lots of negativity on here regarding ust (not tubeless). Wonder how many doubters actually run ust's?
I've been using tubeless for several months now. Only downside I can see is that is was hard work inflating.
So many pluses. The ride is noticeable nicer and can run a lower pressure. No punctures, the sealant has fixed all holes. I don't spend for ever fixing tubes and I now have a huge pile of them in the corner of the shed which I just won't use. I cannot see me going back to tubes long term ever again.
Ust rims and tyres are heavier than tubeless. Standard tyres with tubes are heavier still. That's what I meant by heavier
You're sort of comparing apples with oranges, but they're not really.
Schwalbe (and Conti among others) UST tyres are about 200g heavier than their tubed counterparts. A tube weighs about 150g. The lightest UST rim is the XM819, at 450g+. Even Crossmax SLRs are nearly 1500g.
A pair of DT 240s on ZTR Alpines would be about 150g lighter and cost less (if you use the same hubs/spokes with an XM819s the difference is over 250g). Combine with a tubeless ready Rocket Ron (or whatever you fancy) and you can either add 150g of tube, or 50g of sealant and 10g of valve.
UST setups are reliable, they're not light.
Lol
Well they feel more agile and lighter?
Probably because the wheels and tyres you used before were heavier, so for you, they are! That's not to say that UST is lighter than an equivalent tubed or non-UST tubeless set up.
I ran tubes which are heavier which is EXACTLY my point
So you ran UST tyres and wheels, with tubes? Of course UST was lighter!
Jes - your now making this up. Forget it
sticking with tubes as i only get about 2/3 punctures a year so not really a prob even on the side of the trail at night can get the whole shebang done in about 10 mins inc a quick wee break in the middle 🙂
I love my mavic 819's with ust ready nobby nics and one more positive is the cushioning effect of softer Tyres due to the lower pressure which can help soak up bumps
Coming back into MTBing after 10 years off, does anyone use latex innertubes nowadays? How do they compare to going tubeless?
I always swore by them as they are lighter, comfyer and (fingers crossed) punctured less.
does anyone use latex innertubes nowadays
No. 😉
Pretty much died a death really, as they were more faff than butyl ones folk who were interested in the performance went tubeless!
Thanks guys for the replys didnt think i would start a war 🙂 i might just go for mavic 823's and rebuild the wheels
