Nice work Kryton!
I officially dislike 2016 now. Last weekend I had to have IV fluids I was so dehydrated from vomming continuously for a couple of days (just a virus of some sort, maybe real live flu). Then a couple of days ago the shed / log cabin thing was broken into. They took my wife's hardtail and my Hummer (that was set up on the turbo trainer). Could have been worse - they left my (broken, I've no idea what would have happened if they'd taken that!) road bike and a couple of other bikes too. Right pain in the arse though, and now I have to figure out what to buy to carry me through until I can buy a proper road bike.
Bah humbloodybug!
Hope you're all enjoying the spring!
Bad luck gray, that is a PITA. Opportunity to build up a cheap turbo mule perhaps?
Been doing more sessions using the iOS app here. Found a feature where if you swipe on the graph of the session it shows you a bunch of data fields about the session and current interval (e.g. NP, avg power, TSS.) Really handy for me as I tend to ride to an overall TSS target. Nice to be able to see your interval stats accumulating as you're riding too, easier to work with than the bar and diamond thing. Hope they work those changes into the next desktop app update.
That's cool. I like the fact that TR are clearly putting effort into developing their product. The podcasts are pretty good too.
I'll have my broken Litespeed on the turbo before long. I found a steel fork for £20 that has a bonkers long steerer, so will chuck that on along with about 6" of headset spacers (well, waste pipe).
Main hassle is figuring out what to do for riding outside. Won't bore you all with the convoluted first world problem deliberations!
Main hassle is figuring out what to do for riding outside. Won't bore you all with the convoluted first world problem deliberations!
Everyone else does! This is THE place to drone on about first world bike problems. Did you get an insurance settlement after your accident?
Checked the chain after tonights turbo to find it needed replacing. Thought I'd do it quickly before jumping in the shower. Hmm no 9 speed chains in the spares box but I did have a 10 speed chain, a suitable cassette and some 105 10 sp shifters. Turbo mule is now sporting an unexpected upgrade 🙂
East Vidette for me this evening. Hard starts of a minute followed by 7 minutes close but below ftp. First session I've really failed on as just gave up on the last interval (of 6). Interesting exercise and I could see the point but felt very road ride specific. Rest week now which I'm looking forward to.
Felt a bit crappy with a cold so ditched the planned session and went for a pretty basic 2x20 sweetspot tonight. First interval was snotty but not too bad. Thought I'd push on a bit on the second and ended up with a nice new 20 min medal for my efforts 🙂 Bit unexpected as I wasn't feeling maxed out. About 10 watts under what I'd need to hit in a 20 min test for my current FTP so a nice confirmation that it's about right.
Nice work!
Home contents insurance have paid out for the burglary, so I've bought a cheap secondhand hardtail frame and started transferring parts from the Mojo in the loft. Car driver insurance a long way from being settled, though hopefully the bike element might be decided before too long. Meanwhile I'm going to fudge the broken road bike onto the turbo soon. So then I'll have a turbo set up and a hardtail for riding outside. No real rush on proper road bike.
Slightly tempted to use some of my Wheelies credit to buy some P1 pedals - would effectively cost me £800. Since I don't know what will happen road bike-wise though, I think I'll hold off and probably stick with the Powertap.
Long outside ride on Saturday insufficiently fuelled as I woke early and didn't want to wake anyone. 3 bannanas is not sufficient for a 5hr training ride when you'd normally have a large bowl of porridge and 2 bagels beforehand plus 6 or 7 gels on the ride. Spectacular bonk which made me feel shit the rest of the day.
The Owl today - especially usefull as the interval format replicate my race starts.
Except I decided to take the given option or treating the initial 30 secs as race starts, makes for a hard workout!
Last 4 sessions have resulted in medals though, whoop. Now doing 4 weeks short power build then 8 weeks XCM to the end of July, between races and TT's. Will be swapping them for club evening "with Hills" smashes where I can.
Quick question - how much pain are people putting themselves through on their sessions?
I have a weekly (non TR) 5x 15minutes Z4. As my time has become limited I've really tried to make it high quality and am grinding out 4x 15minutes at 93% FTP and a fifth at 88% (completely empty). It's painful enough that I can't even do the 2-5minutes Z2 inbetween intervals. It's hell and I dread it.
It's hell and I dread it.
Sounds about the right level 🙂
Well I tried Gould last night and it wasn't great. Previous week was supposed to be a rest week but due to a combination of circumstances (sweamrs changing rotation) ended up riding 3 days outside so my rest week TSS was over 600.
Suffice to say felt all that last night and really struggled with motivation. Still 12 weeks to my key race (BCBR) and wondering if I'm going to keep it up the whole time. Respect to people who manage a whole Base;Build;Spesh plan)
To my mind unless an session is "recovery" it should be painful. A few years ago I did a Lactate Ramp test at a local sports lab. At the end as I lay on the floor shaking from head to toe the coach said to me "You'll do well; you can suffer"
Yes. After my 30sec sprints the lactic was so painful trying to stay just under FTP I considered stopping each time, and really had to grit my teeth through it.
I too often wonder mostly during sweet spot intervals that I'm not trying hard enough, but I tend to end up more feeling sick/wobbly legged during VO2 max tbh.
Yesterday I had to wait a few minutes before my legs stopped wobbling enough for me to dismount.
As we all like numbers, here's the data from Mat Hayman's Paris Roubaix winning ride...
http://home.trainingpeaks.com/blog/article/power-analysis-mathew-hayman-s-victory-at-paris-roubaix
All gone very quiet here. Everyone out enjoying the sunshine?
Had the summer bike out today for a shameless bit of KOM poaching 8)
Had to turbo last night after three days away, longest riding break in months, and legs felt bloody awful. Really heavy and sluggish. Thankfully back up to speed now 🙂
I've still not got a turbo bike setup since we were burglarised.
Have ridden outside though. Outrageously slowly, but hey!
Have ridden outside though. Outrageously slowly, but hey!
Good work! Only going to get quicker 😀
I was pleased to be maintaining over 20 for a bit, until I remembered that my Garmin is set to show kilometres, not miles...
Doing some TR stuff the last week - put the TT bike on and trying to figure out the position. Feels pretty awful, tbh - the idea of holding it for even a ten seems out of the question right now. Noticing some slight improvements, though, so just need to keep going with it.
Some of the latter sessions on sweetspot base II look quite intense - big blocks of threshold work. Leconte and Lamarck, for example - be tackling them in the next couple of weeks.
Well I'm having a bit of a rubbish week. Dislocated thumb on an innocuous climb on Wednesday and possible broken wrist. So back to the turbo it is with 12 weeks to BC Bike race.
Looking through potential workouts to simulate my outdoor rides and I came across the 8DC (not even sure what that stands for) rides which look to have a bit more variety in them than just sitting at x% of ftp for hours...
Anybody tried them? Wondering about doing a couple of them back to back on the weekend to simulate the 4hour mtb ride sweamrs will now be doing without me.. 👿
I'm still slogging away , finally in to 'specialism' next week . Still snow on the ground here in some parts so still feel inside is good training
Garry, turbo in TT position can feel absolutely horrid. Loads of threads about it over on the time trial forum. Mostly down to the turbo. I've only recently sorted out a turbo that I can do TT position work on, the old mag turbo I had was tortuous.
Having searched the blog it's 8 days of California and the idea is to do it 8 consecutive days...
So I'm going to wait until I know if I have a broken wrist (x-ray on Monday). If I do then I suspect this might be in my future. I'm at week 6 of General build so I think I'll switch to high volume for this week to make up for not being on the bike (and probably next week); then rest; then ftp test then 8 days of California... then rest then hopefully the cast will nearly be off.
That sounds encouraging - barely had the bike outside since I got it, so not really ridden it in anger yet. Our tens start next month so I'll see then.mrblobby - MemberGarry, turbo in TT position can feel absolutely horrid. Loads of threads about it over on the time trial forum. Mostly down to the turbo. I've only recently sorted out a turbo that I can do TT position work on, the old mag turbo I had was tortuous.
Garry, have a browse through these threads...
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=104861
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=109277
http://www.timetriallingforum.co.uk/index.php?showtopic=50038
Lots of good info there.
Most of the time the answer is to get a LeMond 🙂
Garry, turbo in TT position
I'm new to TT'ing and having spent up to 40 mins of TR sessions in the position, i found it - the position - surprisingly easy out on the road during my first TT.
I have my first 10 tonight at Hillingdon so those words may come to bite me!
Best of luck Kryton.
Really does depend on individual, your position, and your turbo. My old mag one I couldn't sustain my race power for more than a few minutes, with the LeMond I can get much closer to replicating a race effort and duration. It's mostly about the inertia and KE of the turbo. I think often an very closed TT position will make it difficult to push through the dead spots in the pedal stroke. Not much of a problem when racing but on a low inertia / KE turbo that can make it very hard.
Tapering for weekend after next - normal 5x15m Z4 down to 2x20m Z4. Fresh legs midweek feels as if I'm cheating.
Good luck Kryton! What a beautiful day it is. I've had yesterday and today off looking after the kids. I love a sunny day at this time of year.
Had a couple of weeks off myself focusing on getting outside. My first 10 of the year tomorrow. We should have a separate tt thread. One where we can show of our trainerroad improvements and "budget" cervelos
🙂 Are you referring to me?
Out for a lunchtime spin, nice day but there'll be quite a headwind if you are have a west to east leg on your TT tonight. I'm gatecrashing another local club 10 tomorrow.
So I've never spent more than 90 minutes on the turbo but Friday I'm looking at 2hours 45minutes. Hints and tips for surviving that kind of duration much appreciated....
Unexpectedly did my first 23mile hilly TT off the back of a winter of training for road racing. On paper it should have been awful, power meter died, I was late with no time for a warm up, on a standard road bike… In reality I was very surprised to pace it well going off feel, pretty much even lap split, 2mins faster than my target time and good enough to take 1st woman by 4mins (2nd lady was on a tt bike). Got a 25m hilly tt this weekend, worried I’m getting into it having sworn I never would...
Nice work dgoab! It is curiously addictive.
Best of luck to those racing tonight. Don't forget a headwind leg is definitely not all about smashing it! Just get tucked in and be as aero as possible, don't worry too much if the power is a bit down.
Not been using TR in ages, been focussing on outside stuff as cant fit mtb on turbo and its light enough to train outside. THinking about suspending TR for a while I'm right in thinking it stores all your data so you can re-activate account?
Figure might not use it till septmeber.
Good luck for the TTs
I'm right in thinking it stores all your data so you can re-activate account?
I last used TrainerRoad in 2013 and all my data was still there when I reactivated my account this January
Just abandoned a session due to yesterday's squats and bike ride plus a stinking cold . Tried at 90% but I'm now resting in the bed reading singletrack
It's the turbo for me tonight. Really can't be arsed. For anyone else of a similar disposition...
I find myself in a Premier Inn in Dorchester . No, I didn't bring the turbo, but luckily it coincides with a Week 4.
Well last week got the summer race bike out, a few nice rides, even got my legs out for a couple. Winter bike with guards back out for the weekend. And last night it was back on the turbo. Cold, wind and snow down south today so looks like turbo again 🙁
The old garage is warming up a bit now and my Dyson fan that did nicely in the winter is struggling. Any recommendations for something powerful with a remote control?
I've seen picture of some that sit on the floor in front of the bike and angle up at the rider which look like a good idea.
I have a couple of [url= http://www.screwfix.com/p/fe45-h1-18-high-velocity-floor-fan-220-240v/54056 ]these screwfix ones[/url].
Remote control? Belkin Wemo switch to control from your phone?
I bought one [url= http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Black-FAN-16-40-cm-Pedestal-Fan-55W-Remote-Control-3-Speed-7-5-Hour-Timer-/141636682111 ]of these[/url]recently from ebay - 40 quid with a remote control.
It works great, level 1 is easily enough airflow, oscillates - bit rinky-dink, though, really basic quality so don't know how long it will last.
Makes quite a difference!
Only 55 watts 🙂
Handy, thanks.
I've got 2 Honywell HT-900 Turbo fans running on mid-speed. It's pretty noisy but not ridiculous and they certainly seem to shift a lot of air..... They aren't remote but I just turn them on and leave them.
So my workout for Saturday is "Broken finger". The last workout of the general build. Looking at it in detail this is Kern (3 sets of VO2 max intervals) followed by some over-unders.
I did Kern on Tuesday and is was one of the hardest workouts I've done with me lying on the floor afterwards and feeling sick for ~ 1hour. There was no way I could have managed some over-unders afterwards.
Do people think it's better to dial the % down and finish the workout or try it and know I might be bailing after the VO2 max part? Or do Kern again and find some over-unders to do the following day?
Broken finger
125 TSS in 90 mins, that's going to be hard!
I'd just give it a try and see how it goes. You could always skip one or two of the O/U if you're legs are done.
TBH Kern on its own looks pretty tough but it's an hour at 0.94 IF so shouldn't really be leaving you dying on the floor. I'd guess your power above threshold needs a bit of work (just because two people come out of an FTP test with the same number, doesn't mean they'll both have the same capacity for work at 115% of that value.) So maybe it might be worth knocking it down a few percentage points while you do these sorts of intervals.
I agree on power above threshold needing work and I think I'm going to do parts of the short power build at some point. I really notice when riding with a few friends that while we all have roughly the same w/kg they are much better at punchy climbs or pulling away with a quick burst of power...
Just to echo the above post, due to moving house and getting sick my build training suffered a little. lots of little breaks here and there.
Anyhow I'm now on to specialism and finding , for example, the last interval of 3 to be very tough. I am hitting the power output but not holding it. The frst two intervals i can complete, all be it slightly under the requirement on the 2nd interval.
Should I dial down the whole workout a few % rdo the intervals i can then drop it right down to complete the third interval? or just do the best i can for all three?
Thanks in advance.
Should I dial down the whole workout a few % rdo the intervals i can then drop it right down to complete the third interval? or just do the best i can for all three?
Dropping it right down may mean not being 'in zone' which negates the benefit.
Generally better to do the first intervals at the power you can hold for the last. If this takes you below the desired zone drop the number of intervals or reduce the non interval section.
Been using TR for a while now and reading this thread on and off.
Just thought I'd pop up to say has anyone seen the new programme stuff? You can now track your workouts against a programme and it'll tick them off as you do them.
Dropping it right down may mean not being 'in zone' which negates the benefit.Generally better to do the first intervals at the power you can hold for the last. If this takes you below the desired zone drop the number of intervals or reduce the non interval section.
Ok so start as i mean to go on. Reduce the percentage of the whole workout from the beginning and complete all the intervals at the recommended power etc.
Then i suppose go up 1 % after a workout of two until back at 100%?
At this point I have to own up to not actually using TR so can't help on that bit. The targets for my own intervals are based on a loose triangulation of how I feel, what I've done and how much pain I feel I can cope with. I'm not willing to hand that over to an algarythm. I do try and stick to a principle of never give up which means if I overdo it I will do the last intervals at reduced power rather than give up. From a training point of view giving up might be better but for me it's a mental mindset I don't want to start.
Sure , appreciate that. I don't give up on the last interval section , I still do it as hard as I can , but the power output is perhaps 25w under the goal.
This has been discussed on the TR podcast a few times I think. They tend to suggest the following IIRC:
1) Be sure that your FTP is set right.
2) If you're ill or too fatigued then it might be better to just call it off or opt for a lower intensity workout instead, but if you're good on those fronts then:
(a) Dropping the intensity a few % is OK. Different people do have slightly different power profiles, so whilst e.g. 120% of FTP for n minutes might be a do-able VO2max interval for many, it might not be for you, especially if you're a bit old or weak of mind (:-)). Drop it by too much though and you will miss the point of the session.
(b) A super-short rest mid-interval is OK. They tend to recommend back-pedalling for a few (<5) seconds just to give the muscles a chance for a quick flush and the mind a quick break. The way they talk, they seem to do that themselves often - much better to do that and still get through the interval than to bail or drop it down.
(c) If the high intensity stuff is still regularly too tough for you to complete, but you're sure that overall your FTP setting is OK, then you can increase the rest between intervals a bit.
(d) MTFU
What gray and adsh said 🙂
I still use TR but most of what i do is custom workouts. And intervals are based on what my power for that duration is rather than just being a % of FTP which is a bit crude. So if, for example, my 5 min max is 400W, I might do 3 at 380W. Then depending on how that went I might tweak it up or down for the next session regardless of what my FTP is set to.
I listen to podcasts instead of actually riding. They're pretty good. (I'd recommend starting at the beginning though.)
I reckon in a few years' time there'll be an equivalent of TR that will give you customised workouts that are based on your power profile, where you'd like to improve it and for what style of event, and automatically detect your levels of fatigue / when you're ill and tweak things accordingly. I reckon the data that they've acquired already is an absolute goldmine. Strava too - if someone with the right skills got hold of that I think they could learn a lot about how mediocre athletes respond to training, and build an excellent AI TrainBot.
I'd be surprised if TR aren't planning something along those lines (at least the power profile customised stuff.)
Thanks all . Will MTFU
I'd be surprised if TR aren't planning something along those lines
Agreed. Especially now they have the HR / power warm-up as well. I'm waiting for the day something pops up and says "Based on your previous 50 warm-ups and HR there's no way you're going to complete this session so give up now"
I'm mid-way through the 2014 8 days of California and it's tough.. but also really good as something with a bit more variety than straight intervals.
"Based on your previous 50 warm-ups and HR there's no way you're going to complete this session so give up now"
😀
Outside intervals tonight - hugely over to the extent I feel as if I'm about to throw up 2hrs after. Suspect that's the end of this block.
Just tried the 2014 8 DC stage 3 and it was brutal. Couldn't keep power for the final "climb" and had to abandon. On the way set new personal bests for 10 minute and 30 minute power but just couldn't manage the second round.
The commentary really does keep you involved though and I'm finding this more motivating than straight training currently as suffering a bit of turbo fatigue.
We're totally open to some of the ideas you guys are discussing above! Send in some of 'em to our user-voice page at: https://trainerroad.uservoice.com/forums/131395-general. We regularly go through these in consideration of what our users want to see in future development cycles. 🙂
Regarding the struggle on your 8DC ride, may just been one of those days. But just to be sure, check out our blog article on burning out. It'll give you some insights as to riding the fine line between your physical and mental: http://blog.trainerroad.com/how-to-recognize-burnout-and-what-to-do-about-it/
Way to go on the PR's though!
Happy Training, everyone!
Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool
https://www.trainerroad.com/how-it-works
OMG they are watching us
FYI I just upgraded my Kickr to the latest firmware and now my power readings (on wahoo fitness app) are bouncing around all over the place, and the power distribution for my ride is muc more widely distributed with reading way higher than I normally get as well.
If you are going to do the upgrade it might be worth watching how your power fluctuates for a while before you do the upgrade to see if it gets messed up afterwards.
nickkanwetz - Member
We're totally open to some of the ideas you guys are discussing above!Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool
https://www.trainerroad.com/how-it-works
howsyourdad1 - Member
OMG they are watching us
Now here's a brilliant example of how STW can monetise the forum without throwing massive ads around.
We've got a great thread running, that has attracted positive attention from the manufacturer it's about. So STW make it a sticky backed by a commercial arrangement with TrainerRoad. Agree that it'll stay a sticky to promote TrainerRoad within the STW community and in return, TR engage with the community via the sticky on training advice and use of the app, plus some cash to STW Towers. Both companies and the community win.
Well another day and another failure to complete an 8 Days of California stage. This time day 6 which is billed as the hardest day. When I bailed at an 1hr10 my TSS was already 100 😯
These stages are certainly showing up my weakness - namely bursts of power above along way above FTP. Given I've been training for BC Bike race (average stage is ~50km with 1600m of climbing) which is a lot of longer slower riding not too concerned but think next winter I might do short power build or similar instead.
*Presses Reset*
Right, what recommendation for tonights pre-race get-my-lardy-arse-into-gear session for Wednesdays XCO race?
Since I decided I actually am an XC racer last night I'm back, need a session before Wednesdays race, will do a 20 min Test on Friday, race on Sunday then start on XCM ready for July's target 24h.
Custom session. 1hr of z2 with 20 mins of tempo and 5 30 second hard efforts. Job done. (Bit like [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/3651276-pal-20-tempo-with-4x1-v2 ]this one[/url] but with shorter and harder efforts.)
Too hard IMO with a .92 IF. You could knock it down 10%.
ok, you're thinking a bit less stress pre-wednesday but with some wake-up sprints:
https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/108313-cheaha-1
?
Not hard enough 🙂
How about [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/22151-carrigain ]Carrigain[/url]? (ignoring the low cadence instructions.)
Ok, I'm in for that.
sweamrs is looking for a "pyramid" style workflow - e.g 1min @85%; 1 @ 95% ; 1 @ 105% and then down again.
So many workouts it's hard to just find stuff - any ideas from those who might have done something similar?
Keeler Needle?
Haeckel - although it's 3 x 3 mins rather than 1. Have you used the workout creator? You can use it to make customised workouts if you can't find a workout that matches your requirements.