Forum menu
Well, what a mess that 8 min test was even though I knocked 5% off my pre-illness FTP. . I lowered the % for the second 8 min becuase I couldn't cope with the watts for the first and based on that last interval x 2 -10% I've lost 12% of my FTP over 5 weeks of virus badness. Sigh.
I spose I have 4 months to get back up to speed....
Did carpathian peak earlier. Quite liked it, but need to do the FTP test started of at 200, then increased % effort to 120% but still don't think that was hard enough. Good to practise trying to cycle at a specific power, which I'm finding harder than expected!
I'm new here. Just had a lightbulb moment. Did FTP test (for first time ever) at weekend and have now just completed Downward Spiral with my personal power numbers (on TR). For past six months id been doing the videos based on my assumed power output.
Now I get why people love the stats. No hiding hey!!
Do you have any power data from when you were just riding on feel? Be interesting if you could see how your perception matches up with the numbers.
Start of revolver is funny,
10 - [i]I am destroying the earth with my speed[/i]
9 - [i]flat out sprint[/i]
8-4 - [i]unfortunately for you we're not going to be spending any time here today[/i].
GL - no data at all. Before I did today's session I was wondering if it would now be too hard etc. Whilst it was harder, it wasn't that much harder which I guess is down to the fact it's based on my FTP test. I think that was my lightbulb moment - the cleverness of the personalised power outputs and how motivating they are. I guess I'm sounding like a newbie now!
Over two workouts my Stages is averaging 9% lower than the Virtual Power.
I've always suspected I'm right leg heavy so could be that, although this obviously assumes TR's power curve is spot on for my trainer (unlikely?).
Anyway, week 5 of Sweet Spot 1 and it's all very comfortable. Hoping I can match my current FTP using the lower readings off the Stages for my next test, feeling good but seems like a set back!
Power trainer curve very unlikely to be spot on. Also I'd be very surprised if it's consistent over the duration of a workout. As a turbo warms up it's likely that the resistance will drop. Mine drops quite significantly over the first 20 minutes or so (as in 3 or 4 teeth on the rear cassette to maintain the same PM measured power) then more gradually for the next hour or so.
Did the 8 minute FTP test tonight. First test for 6 months and it showed! 😳 FTP increased by a massive 3 Watts.
I'm planning on getting started with one of the base plans next week but I'm still really undecided about which one to go for.
I've got reasonable base fitness at the moment and will be racing in the Brass Monkeys series over the next couple of months in the 4h category.
My aim for next year is to try and get a couple of decent results in 12h solo races, probably 24:12 and another one later in the year.
Do you reckon I should be looking at the Traditional or Sweet Spot base plan? I'll be doing the Mid-Volume 1 or 2 depending on which type of plan I go for.
I think it depends how much time you have got available - Sweet Spot if you don't have much. I think the Traditional base look fine if you can stand (sit?) for a long time on the turbo, but they weren't for me.
As a turbo warms up it's likely that the resistance will drop. Mine drops quite significantly over the first 20 minutes or so (as in 3 or 4 teeth on the rear cassette to maintain the same PM measured power)
So as the resistance drops the PM figure decreases as there's less stress in the crank...speed and VP remain constant but you need shift up to increase the load on the cranks and restore the balance with the PM...maybe even reduce cadence to maintain the speed/VP reading?
Just spent 30mins setting up my kickr and comparing with the stages readings. At a fairly steady indicated 200w on the kickr in ergo mode the stages was showing 185w. Last time I sat on a stationary bike that showed balance I was 48:52 right leg so this is about right. Going to run both pms in parallel for a while till I get a decent idea of the link between the 2 as it will mean my FTP will be a fair number of watts different measured on the turbo vs the stages.
Hopefully my first taste of trainerroad tomorrow night now I've got it set up.
So as the resistance drops the PM figure decreases as there's less stress in the crank...speed and VP remain constant but you need shift up to increase the load on the cranks and restore the balance with the PM...maybe even reduce cadence to maintain the speed/VP reading?
I had to read that a few times... but I think yes!
Using today's session as an example, rests between intervals were...
mins 0-10 221W 26.8kph
mins 30-40 227W 28.3kph
mins 65-75 225W 29.4kph
So same power more or less but the wheel speed increased by almost 2.6 kph. If I went by virtual power I'd either be going too hard at the start or too easy at the end.
DT78, can you set a scaling factor on the Stages? Could do that on a single sided Vector to address any imbalance. Mine isn't that constant but it was a handy feature to bring it more in line.
Mine does the same after 5-7 mins, I put it down to the fluid in my fluid trainer warming up and changing viscosity.
Cheers, yeah it took me a few times to think it through!
I'm due a retest soon so sticking with VP until then.
Will be interesting to see how it all fares with the Stages, I can't honestly say I've noticed a drift but I guess working off a PM will highlight it.
And maybe the shortfall will encourage me to work on any imbalance...
Does anyone know if it's possible to add TrainerRoad plans to the Training Peaks calendar?
I know that you can sync completed sessions but i'm thinking about using the ATP function in Training Peaks.
I believe you can set up the kickr so it takes its readings from a different power meter if need be which would sort the difference, but my plan is not to use the best bike on it on going, just whilst I work it out. That'll mean I will just be using the kickers readings.
Bumpy, I don't think there is...been looking for this and/or a sync with Google calendar but nothing so far...
Bumpy, I don't think there is...been looking for this and/or a sync with Google calendar but nothing so far...
Looks like it's going to be a lot of copying and pasting to do then!
Out of interest, do people prefer the 8 minute test or a 20 minute test before starting a plan?
Edit: How do people work the plan when it comes to shift work?
I need to swap some of the days around each week but still do the same weekly sessions. Should it be a problem?
I've tried both and I much prefer the 8 minute, but that's probably because I prefer a shorter effort.
I think the 20 min test is more representative though.
I've only ever done the 8 minute test, not out of preference but basically because the training plans I've done have used it even though the text says you can do either.
Last year I moved the days around but kept the same order of individual workouts. Probably not quite so important on the low volume plans where the sessions are separated by a day or so but on the mid and high volume plans you get a hard session followed by an easy one so best to stick to that order.
Read through the associated text for the plan and for each workout to get an idea of why that workout is where it is in the overall plan then if you need to move things about you have a feel for what's needed.
Now that its been mentioned... i find VO2 max efforts quite hard and im not a powerful rider which is probably why, and also asthmatic. Hence ive been struggling with the 8 min test this year, the 20 I find easier - relastively speaking. In real life im better at endurance than raw power events, speed on flats yet not climbs.
Im wondering about others opinions on this - when we've got to a point of accurate FTP so are working at the correct levels, does our physiology then dicatate we'd be better at one or the other? Im thinking I should defer to the 20 min test now for accuracy, rather than the 8 min.
The 8 and 20 min tests are just "field tests" to get an approximation of FTP, which is max sustainable over an hour. I guess you could physiologically be better suited, or better trained, for one or the other. I suspect I'd get a higher value from the 20 min but mentally I've always preferred the 8 min.
TBH I rarely do the tests now, but then I do have long threshold sessions I do fairly regularly and know how hard they should be and tweak my FTP from those.
Mount Field tonight. Stuck nicely to the target power, just a couple of Watts over. A bit of heart rate drift over the three efforts, 12BPM rise from the first to the last.
Ebbets for me an my new lower FTP. It worked out fine, I found the last interval tough and the sprints bringing that slight sick feeling before recovery - perfect - so I should listed to TR and the posters here and stop being in self denial about my decreased FTP.
Interestingly though, my Strava "fitness and freshness" shows me at the same number as the day before I started my first '15 race in March - surely this is good news, as I've just started base/build/speciality plan to coincide with my first race on 7th March 2016 - so I should be fitter by then than I was this year?!
Funnily enough did Mountfield last night, starting the Sweetspot mid volume, not going to manage the two and half hour sessions though couldnt cope on a turbo that amount of time ! I normally ride everyday but the intensity drops through winter so I am hoping doing a proper turbo programme will maintain and improve gains made this year.
Aiming to increase pwr by at least 0.2 by March to 4.7, doubt I'll lose weight so more power needed !
First session on the rollers tonight in about 7 months.
Came into the year with excellent form, got disillusioned, switched to running, and now back again for winter base.
Dropped the FTP by 50 and tested myself with the Sufferfest film the rookie.
Not too bad, so I know roughly what figures to aim at when I do the FTP at the weeken. Hmm joy of joys.
First use of trainerroad and kickr today with sufferfest revolver as I've used it several times before with a dumb trainer and perceived effort. Dumb trainer HR average of 124 and max 183, with smart trainer average 161 and max of 190 so worked me a lot harder.
Had a couple of odd moments on the trainer which ruined 2 intervals. It just kept getting harder until I could barely turn the pedals seated, almost 500w as I was ramping into the interval, almost as if signal dropped and it kept ramping up till it picked the power back up and dropped the resistance back down. Had similar on some rest intervals when it just kept getting easier. Any one had this? Should I try to get the laptop closer to the trainer?
Hmm would you mind emailing us at support@trainerroad.com so we can take a look at your workout file? That certainly doesn't sound normal.
--
[url= https://trainerroad.iljmp.com/1/forum ]Professional Mtb Racer & Community Manager at TrainerRoad - Cycling's Most Effective Training Tool[/url]
Had a couple of odd moments on the trainer which ruined 2 intervals. It just kept getting harder until I could barely turn the pedals seated, almost 500w as I was ramping into the interval, almost as if signal dropped and it kept ramping up till it picked the power back up and dropped the resistance back down.
I've had that happen with the kickr too. Not very often though, I'd estimate it's happened once every 15-16 hours worth of use, rare enough that it's not really bothered me too much. Doesn't normally last for long but it's as if someone has sneakily turned the resistance up to maximum for a few seconds.
Thanks for the post trevorderuise, I've just sent an email to the support team. First time I've used the software and trainer, so any help appreciated.
@DT78
TR do seem pretty good on their support - there's a couple of their staff post on here for example.
I've noticed that if you go on the TR website during the afternoon and evening there's a "Chat" popup feature (it's not there now for instance) so presumably it's when the TR guys are in the office. It's basically an Instant Messenger type feature and you get very quick support.
First turbo session in 6 months today.
Did a 20 minute test, Rubber Glove, and got a disappointing result. Looks like there's plenty of work to do during the winter.
hi all, everything is in place. The turbo is bought, the ANT+ jazz purchased. Now what do i do? FTP yes then follow a plan I presume. Want to build up base over winter and was thinking of following the traditional base, but which volume? Low mid or high? sorry if this has been asked before ( i have no doubt it has)
TR do seem pretty good on their support
Support is what persuaded me not to buy the Tacx Neo and go for the Kickr - plus the clever way they use their company name in naming their followers Wahooligans... (not really for the Wahooligan bit)
Volume really depends on how much time you have available and also how much time you have for rest especially if you want to ride outdoors as well should the weather be kind.
I did Sweet Spot low volume last winter but am doing the SP mid vol this year. The SP high volume doesn't have any more days on the turbo, just longer sessions.
Sufferfest have a "fall collection" offer on at the moment, three new films for under $30.
Pretty good for those not wanting to follow a dedicated plan but need a little motivation to get on the trainer and nail themselves into the ground.
Hi all. Question if I may. Using TR what have people been choosing to do/follow if they've been training for MTB marathons and endurance events (events with a serious amount of overall elevation and not just distance)?
Cheers for any advice...
I asked TR about something similar but didn't specify big elevation gain:
"I was wondering what would be the best build phase training plan to follow after Sweet Base mid vol considering that I'm aiming at long MTB rides. By long, I'm thinking of 200 mile ITT events"
Reply: In that case, you'll want the sustained power build plan
Well, you could try XC Marathon in the Speciality phase, and a long ride at the weekend.
Hi. Thanks whitestone and Kryton57 for your replies. I'll have a look at those ideas, also reminds me I can email TR direct if necc.
TR support are good aren't they? Suspect is a low battery on the stages causing the cadence / power readings to drop out occassionally and confuse the trainer = it kind of sticking with ramping up or down till it picks signal back up again.
New battery and/or usb extension lead for the dongle should sort.
I may unpair the stages as I was just planning on using it for cadence, but if it causes issues I will use a seperate cadence monitor.
DT78, that's interesting, so were you using the Stages power to control the kickr?
Not intentionally. But I had linked both to trainerroad. It might be it defaults to the power meter. I didn't see any option to chose which power source to use.
Looking at this for next year, currently nursing a smashed up shoulder so off the bike for a while, I'm wondering if anyone has used it with a Tacx Flow, Garmin Speed Sensor and Ant + Adaptor for an I phone with good results, I don't really want to go down the but a power meter route at the moment, I know it would be more accurate in the long run, but as a starting point I'm curious as to how people find it in use.