Cheers. Doing a real test outside isn't going to be possible. It's not the power I'm concerned about, but the threshold h.r. so I can use my h.r.m. to mimic longer threshold type interval workouts such as Avalanche spire and carpathian peak in the real world. I'll split the difference and say my threshold is 162.
Having one of those days when you look at what you've got on the plan and think WTF?! 😐
I had that last night with my 3x9x30s of 115% ftp.
That really hurt with my new ftp (201, up from 177). Although I'm reasonably sure that my tyre was going soft in the session since it was completely flat this morning.
I'm trying to psych myself up to do my first 8 min test since last July. But it's sunny outside and I just want to go out and ride my mountain bike!
(I should really be writing my PhD thesis, but the thought of that is even worse than an FTP test!)
Having one of those days when you look at what you've got on the plan and think WTF?!
That was me last night, 51 sprints out of corners any one? (Lafyette).
I'm feeling like that, had a training day all day and am exhausted, but got Grassy ridge. hopefully by the time I've got home and had a uppa I'll feel alive again!
Had a light tea, just got to put the kids to bed, bring it on!
Smash it Mr Blobby !
My cold has subsided so I think tomorrow will be 8 minute test time. Was scheduled for Tuesday just gone so only lost a few days
Go Blobby and ferrals!
Minor update from me: physio has said that he reckons it's OK for me to take my brace off whilst on the turbo. Safest to wear it getting on and off, but can put it to one side whilst riding. This is good! I've only done one half hour stint like that so far, but it was better than I'd have expected really. I doubt I'll be outside for quite a few weeks yet, but the turbo is the next best thing, and it'll mean that when I do get outside I won't be miserable at having completely wasted away from inactivity.
Great news gray, definately if you can get the legs spinning a bit on the turbo can only be a good thing!
Well, I rejuvenated myself by having an argument with the wife (I was only trying to get the bloody chilli in before starting turbo but apparently I wasn't allowed to cook this evening 😕 ) so managed to smash out the hour no probs 😆
Great news indeed gray! A few winter miles in time for some outdoor summer smiles 🙂
Well it wasn't pretty here but it's done. Nothing particularly mental like ferrals Grassy Ridge but it was 2 hrs of tempo and threshold blocks with a few hard efforts ([url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/workouts/164534-pal-tempo-sets-and-3-x-breaks ]here[/url]) on top of already feeling quite knackered. Almost at the end of Season 5 of 24 now!
Well I eschewed the Turbo this lunchtime as its sunny out. Despite the London buses, traffic queues and headwind I've posted a time 1:30 quicker than the same loop in September '15 which was immediately after my race season so I'd have expected to be fit.
This can only be good news, although I was 4w down today so maybe the wind helped, but atmospheric pressure & air density would have been very different.
Interestingly seeing as my winter training was a lot of "sustained power" efforts my strava records were hit on a long grind and a flat 2k segment, so perhaps TR works!
5 days rest - feeling fat and slothful. 6hr XC ride tomorrow. There are 28 hills to climb at threshold.
Managed 4.5hrs - wrecked and felt good. Now strained my inner thigh day before intervals start. Moving house with short completion => massive time crunch and stress. Feeling pissed off.
mixed emotions today. Finished base a week ago and was set for build. 8 minute test etc. Then got a snotty cold and havent cycled for a week, still not 100%
Anyhow did an 8 minute test just now, 11% increase on FTP, was riding fairly comfortably at 30w over their reccomended target . So for want of a slightly #lad-ish phrase I smashed it . However still not certain if accurate due to lingering lurgy.
Very pleased, but basically this was the first test i took using a fan for cooling. Huge huge difference. So i feel i may have been wasting time a little during base training (sans fan)
As a side note, is the OP of this thread still active on the forum?
I had the same concern as i did an lot of work without a fan, however from what I read, heat increases stress on the cardio system (hence slightly reducing energy going to legs) so wile not good for build, probably not the end of the world for base.
I've got The Owl this evening and am actually really looking forward to getting back on the turbo as been doing lots of outside riding 😯
Admittely I'd rather be riding now outside in the sun, but turbo work does feel a lot more productive training wise and having ridden outside for my weds, sat and sun sessions last week my legs dont have the same fatigue is they ahve recently
As a side note, is the OP of this thread still active on the forum?
He pops up from time to time. Some Spring Classics chat threads may tempt him back.
I finished sweet spot base 1 the other week - retested for the start of sweet spot base 2 mid vol. FTP went up by over 11%, during the 6 weeks of SS base 1 I'd dropped 6kg so was very happy. Did the first week of SS Base 2 mid vol and then did Kaweah on Saturday - 90 mins with 5x10 minute intervals at 95-99% FTP!! Jesus that was tough, first 3 were alright but the last 2 I was just holding on and didn't do them justice.
Went straight out and took the kids to a roller disco - I skated too, who knew roller skating used so many muscles.
Keeler Needle in 30mins - looks tough too! I'm enjoying it..
[quote=Kryton57 ]
This can only be good news, although I was 4w down today so maybe the wind helped, but atmospheric pressure & air density would have been very different.
irony?
anyway, if there are any kinetic inride owners here, I tried the kinetic app for a change instead of trainerroad and it popped up with message to tell me there is an exchange program on the inride power meter. if you have a mk1, they'll exchange it free of charge for a mk2. Took 2-3 days from 2pure.
no idea what was wrong with the mk1.
Just done Stevens: 5 x 6mins @ 105% with 2min rests. I was a bit worn out last week so missed out on the mid plan FTP test but the load felt about right. If I'd delayed the plan by a week I'd still be doing efforts just before Easter and I've a big ride that weekend so need the recovery week!
I did the owl last night. I actually kind of enjoyed it!
To be honest I was getting sick of all the threshold/sweet spot long intervals that the sweet spot sessions get you doing so it's actually kind of nice to see the bigger numbers come up.
One thing I have found with doing big efforts is that my turbo likes to move itself across my garage floor, is there a cheap and easy fix to keep it more stationary?
Some form of mat, usually rubber, should sort you out.
Yeah I like the ones like owl/priest etc. The hour goes way faster. I pushed the intensity this eve, the second bit I rode at around 100% on a couple of them
Funny thing with threshold type sessions, I find doing them Pretty easy, but then 10 minutes post warm down I'm cooked.
New video with some comedy numbers from Wiggins...
472 watts for 50 minutes to win Olympic gold. Anyone close? 😉
My 30 second medal is 451 😳
That's just bonkers isn't it. One thing I was wondering: given that he's apparently put on some crazy amount of weight in preparation for this year's track Olympics, and given that when he won the London 2012 time trial he came straight out of the TdF so would have been in mountain shape, is it reasonable to think that actually at London he wasn't at his optimal muscle weight for time trials? I know that 4 minutes on the track is quite different from a 50 minute time trial, but they're both about pushing out the watts against air rather than fighting gravity.
I guess 4 minutes must be short enough that having big-ass muscles that you can just burn through helps, whereas over 50 minutes your wider system just can't power big muscles well enough to be efficient. I wonder if there's any significance to the actual amount of glycogen physically sat in big muscles at the start of a pursuit versus smaller ones?
Sorry, just waffling and proving ignorance there. As you were. 🙂
Madness !
Hmm. Saw the surgeon this morning. He says I can ride outside now, without the brace (woohoo!), however he strongly advises me only to ride in an uprightish position for about 6 months. I choose to interpret that as "mountain bike, not road bike", because a true sit-up-and-beg is not an option. Still though, that's a bit of a blow. I had planned to get a road bike on the turbo within the next week or so to give it a go. Also looks likely that I'll have the metalwork taken out around January 2017, which will mean further time off riding and recovery, so I doubt I'll be on for something big in summer 2017. So it's quite likely to be summer 2018 before I cane it up some alps. That's 2.5 years from now. Focksticks. Still could be worse though, at least I can get out and feel some wind in my hair. Not much point virtual shopping for a new bike either now I guess - it'll all have changed by the time I'm ready for one!
Sounds like you'd be ok on the tops with brief forays onto the hoods?
Not sure, am digesting at the moment. I think really he was probably thinking of a properly upright bike rather than even a mountain bike. I'll talk more to my physio next week - I don't really think that part of my back is particularly stressed on a road bike, especially when not on the drops. Ho hum.
Maybe fit a shorter flipped stem to be a bit more upright? I'll look crap but it won't be for long.
On the bright side, you can still turbo so can get yourself Alps ready 🙂
Uurgh. I felt wiped out by a long drive yesterday, woke up feeling "hollow" and have been on the throne three times this morning but never put two and two together until I watched TR loading and my HR settle at about 14bpm over my RHR.
I'm racing next week so have sacked today's session off for some R&R, I'm obviously fighting something. Sigh, I always feel like my efforts are fading away at times like this.
@mrblobby - yeah, I think I'll measure the bar height on the hardtail that I'm currently using, and compare with my road bike and see what I can do with a stem change, at least for turboing.
@Kryton - that sucks but it sounds like the right decision.
I just did two hours on TR (Hawk Mountain) whilst watching a film. Felt OK really. My bum didn't like the saddle that much, and some (muscle) bits of my back were a bit achey, but nothing bad. Just had my first shower of 2016! #****youbrokenspine!
Gray - you may be surprised at how quickly the fitness comes back when your back is fixed, especially if you're able to train your base (at least) before the metal comes out (my brother in law has a huge mechano set in L1-L3 and is going better on the bike than he ever was before his accident)
I had very major surgery for cancer in early August, and I'd not been on the bike that much for a couple of years before that. I lost a lot of blood and a lot of weight - 10kg, and I wasn't overweight to begin with. When I crawled back onto the trainer in early October, my 8 min test results gave me an FTP of 169W! I was basically starting from scratch - no base, nothing.
I did another 8 min test on Tues (after Sweetspot base 1 & 2 and the first 4 weeks of build) and I'm up to 262W already (I was around 300W, possibly a little more, in 2012 before I got sick), and I got through 'Gould' last night no problem with a NP of around 240W for the hour. I also did a [url= https://www.strava.com/activities/500711266 ]95km offroad ride [/url]last week that was basically the Brecon gap route + the MBR black mountain killer loop. That's my progress in 17 weeks - which I guess is a pretty good endorsement of the low volume trainer road plans supplemented by some outdoors riding.
If you go into your op in Jan 17 as fit as possible, don't write off the summer. Look at Ed Clancy!
Blimey, some seriously heroic efforts on this thread at the moment! 😯
Gray, Ianpv, you probably don't get many at the moment on the recovery road, but you definitely deserve a sack full of these [img] 
[/img]
Where's everyone else? Out enjoying the sunshine?
Turbos definately on the back burner now, light enough to ride outside around work 😀
Feeling a bit pissed off as seem to have got the killer cold thats devestating south wales a week before my first race, but compared to gray and ianpv I can't really complain (but I will 😳 )
Turbos definately on the back burner now, light enough to ride outside around work
yeah, I know. I'm about to bunk off work to go BMXing with my son...
Finding the willpower to complete the second 4 weeks of build indoors is tough, but when it's done the clocks will change and I'll hopefully be in good enough shape to survive the chaingang... Looking forward to putting the winter bike on the turbo and getting the fast bike off it and outside!
Whenever I have the blues, I'm remembering Grey and Ianpv on this thread. Good grief chaps, massive respect!
Where's everyone else? Out enjoying the sunshine?
I treated myself to a windy sunny ride. I was supposed to be practising my TT position, but the wind and traffic scared the shit out of me, I probably did 2 minutes of 1h 07 on the TT bars.
I tried really hard to smash the ride - I wanted it to be a training ride not just a ride, but the wind in my face ruined any Strava PB's and it took me some time to get used to the reduced cadence/higher force the 53 (changed from Compact) seem to represent. It was also the first use of my Infocrank. Lots of traffic queues to creep past as well.
Ended up with an NP of 205w, real 195w average at 27.4 MPH - rubbish. If you consider a 5km rolling section I rode at 38KMPH average at 218w waaay under FTP, you can see how the wind/traffic affected the rest of the ride. HR 57 mins at threshold though!
I had very major surgery for cancer in early August, and I'd not been on the bike that much for a couple of years before that. I lost a lot of blood and a lot of weight - 10kg, and I wasn't overweight to begin with. When I crawled back onto the trainer in early October, my 8 min test results gave me an FTP of 169W!
Thanks for making me feel even worse about my FTP of 191 with absolutely no excuses! 😆
Just done Mount Goode - 45mins at FTP!
This is the last week of efforts on this plan, next week is the recovery week so rather than start a Speciality plan I think I'll get to the end of this plan then suspend my account for the summer.
ianpv - sounds like you've had a rough time, congratulations for getting back into it so successfully! Hope that means your cancer treatment is going well. There's too much of that stuff about.
I had a chat with my physio today, he reckons there's a good chance that the recovery from having the metalwork taken out will be loads better than first time round. So, the current plan is to get back to fitness now (mtb on turbo, I'm actually running at only 10% FTP or so down on pre-Christmas already), maintain and improve though until autumn when I can get on a road bike, then be a bit of a ninja by the time I have the surgery in January. Couple of weeks off for surgery, then ease back in, and hopefully be on good form for summer 2017.
Thanks everyone for the kind words. Your support and encouragement has actually been really helpful to me.
Off for a (skiing!) holiday tomorrow, so will probably do an FTP test in a couple of weeks then start sweet spot base again.
Another Kennedy Peak + 1 here. Useful session.
Been doing them using the iPhone app too now I have a BLE PM and HR monitor. Works well. Quite handy when doing work in TT position as I can put the phone where it's easier to keep an eye on what's going on. Don't hear the start/end beep over fans/turbo/headphones but then its rare that I'm not looking at the countdown towards the end of an interval!
Had to bin a session this evening because I was getting a small knocking sensation through the cranks that was doing ma swede in.
I have quite a basic tacx blue motion turbo and there is a v small amount of play in the mounting assembly when the bike is fitted. Should it be rock solid, or do you always get a smidge of movement? It's the first time I've had this problem and the turbo hasn't had a ton of use, so wondering if it's getting worn some how.
Should have done Mount Field tonight but really didn't feel like doing steady 85% work so did Table instead, that felt hard! An IF of 0.94 with sod all rests, in fact the "rests" are at around 80-85%FTP.
Table's a good form tester. Good way of checking that your FTP is about right too!
Hmmm. I was looking for a workout for later in the week. Table might fit the bill. Last workout before a rest week...
FTP test, kind of finished sweet spot base 2, well over 8 weeks with colds and a bit of outdoor work. Increase of 5% to 279w. Pretty pleased with that given the illness. Hoping to get up to 300w by May/June. Should be doable with a bit of focus and luck if I can stay healthy.
Scott peak for me to 'test' my body after 5 days of some kind of bug. H.R. Seemed to be about right, and while I didn't feel good, it wasn't awful. One more taper/priming session on Thursday and then it's race time 😀
Struggled today with Richardson - 8x15 seconds on/off at 125% after a 30 second 160% sprint start.
Later analysis shows I couldn't get into zone 5 HR, still tired from the weekends racing maybe reflected by immense leg pain around the 4th/5th sprint...
Do you find those sorts of workouts useful? I don't tend to do them that often as I feel the 15s on isn't long enough
Well, the initial sprints and first 5 mins are certainly indicative of first lap XCO, after which it settles into closer-to-time-trial pace. And I need the pain management training to be fair.
As for Billats in general I hate them in the first instance becuase I find VO2MAx efforts hard, but appreciate I can (usually) do better at those than say 6 intervals of 3 mins each.
I'll be going straight to Augusta Thursday night as I'm TT'ing Saturday (my first) and need to find a gear/rhythm on the *whispers* tweener rings...
Yeah I agree the initial sprint then effort type workout is good, but I prefer the ones where it's sprint then constant or rising effort a la the owl and the priest. For Xco I think it's rare to just do 15s on, even overtaking someone takes longer. It might just be cos I'm rubbish at keeping to the right power in such short bursts 😳
Very pleased tonight.
Completed short power base supplemented by a bit of commuting and other stuff. Good jump in FTP from 255 to 279. I almost feel like a proper cyclist again. Next stop 300! Going to go for rolling road race high volume.
Arse. Just failed Augusta, I should have been able to knock out those intervals. HR would go up more than 85%, legs burning, focus all over the place. Im not unwell so I guess i need a rest. TTing on Saturday so after that I might pootle for a week.
Unless moving to tweener rings is really tough, as I did find i didn't have the perfect gear, I was overgeared slightly 250w at 97rpm I'd rather be at 105 - 52/17 fwiw
Those billat intervals have been pretty tough nd I raced in the middle, I think that's had some kind of effect.
Finished SS Base (finally after some extra breaks due to illness etc)and onto build. Nice rise in FTP from 269 to 286 so reasonably pleased. General build seems most likely choice although tempted by short power as that is my main weakness.
Nice work 🙂
Tough one here. 8 pm Sunday evening, knackered after a long day and weekend of jobs and kids, and I still had to get in 145 TSS over about two and a half hours to finish the week on plan 😐 Ground out most of Kennedy Peak + 1 to get the job done. Really had me thinking about [url= http://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/being-an-average-racer-worth-it ]Kryton's latest musing[/url]!
Don't blame me, I'm having a rest.
Nothing until Wednesay when its Pigsah, a lunchtime 45 mins Z2 small ring only outside on Thursday, 30 mins of Dorr Friday night before BoB on Sunday.
I even went for an all you can eat Curry for Sunday lunch. 😀
Ugh absolutely no motivation tonight.
Supposed to be doing an FTP test since I'm halfway through short power build, but I still feel tired from my race at the weekend.
Tempted to go for an easy spin outside (might even beast myself up a local climb to see what I can do) but I just feel very bleehhhh at the minute.
Ugh here too. First proper fail of the year so not too bad I guess. Went out to do a session at lunchtime but had nothing in the legs. Just tried to do it on the turbo and abandoned about ten mins in. Annoyed at not sticking to the plan.
Chin up folks!
You can't be machines every single day. You've been nailing the training for weeks, so don't be hard on yourselves if you have a bad day or couple of days.
I've got major man flu at the moment, so haven't turned a pedal for a couple of weeks (there was a skiing holiday in there too, man flu is just the last few days).
ugh x three. Having a week from hell work-wise so had to do a short work out on tues when had been planning carpathian peak, 13 hours in front of a computer yesterday, then decided to get up early and do my vo2 max intervals on a short and steep local hill but my legs and brain werent feeling it at all. On the plus side i rode some nice singletrack instead 😀
I'm starting to think that one of the main requirements for improvement is how to deal with adversity. I tend to feel that time invested in training = improvement but recently I've had 3 involuntary breaks from training (over and above planned rest weeks) which means my CTL gets good then tumbles.
Now because I am behind, instead of riding outside tonight I have to do 5x15m Z4 in the shed of hell - oh joy.
I'm back, I think.
Still on "rest" week in the form of tapering for battle on the beach, but completed Pigsah OK yesterday, 2 mins at 125% x 6.
I'm starting to think that one of the main requirements for improvement is how to deal with adversity. I tend to feel that time invested in training = improvement but recently I've had 3 involuntary breaks from training (over and above planned rest weeks) which means my CTL gets good then tumbles.
Its a hard one, Normally I just try to push on through, but I think if your at the point your body wont listen to your desire to go harder its better going for a spin.
I'm focussing on training outside at the moment and I do find its harder to maintain focus than when on the turbo with the nice line to follow!
shed of hell - oh joy.
🙂 Stop complaining. Get on with it!
Back on it last night to see if the legs were working again. A couple of hours of z2 with 2 x 20 min blocks at high tempo pace. Nothing too intense. Seems ok 🙂 Think it was the coming down with a sore throat/cold thing, now it's actually here I seem ok-ish. The kids are full of snot so it's not really a surprise. Shall keep any intervals under threshold for the next few days though. Out for a spin in the sun today 🙂
New FTP and started General Build. Sill (over-unders seemed okay). Decided to follow it up with centennial (6x~7minutes @ FTP) the night after to free up some weekend time. It looks innocuous compared to VO2 max type work but it still felt tough especially at higher ftp than before.
which means my CTL gets good then tumbles.
Interesting one this. First time this winter that I've really looked at the PMC properly. Really makes you appreciate the value of consistency! Had a steady build of CTL since about September last year and seen some good gains from it. Think not trying to rush it and build it gradually has been key to avoiding my usual overtraining problems.
Probably not that impressive compared to some, but I'm pretty pleased with my chart (Oct to end of Feb)...
[img] 
Edit.... just compared it to the same time period last year, all a bit of a mess with some illness and injury...
[img] 
I'm happy to peak, rest, lose a bit and come back etc but the last month is annoying
[url= https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1625/25231887633_82348fe74b_b.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm2.staticflickr.com/1625/25231887633_82348fe74b_b.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/ErE28p ]PMC[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/68424083@N07/ ]
What happened the last month? Noticed you went from about 50 to 80 in about a month before that, think that would finish me off!
Past couple of years mines been a bit of a rollercoaster, and for years before that with running I suspect it was much the same. And I've always struggled with overtraining, motivation, peaks and troughs. Keeping it steadier seems to be working for me at the moment. Probably more suited to my veteran status too!
It was base and the foundations were there so although hard that wasn't an issue. I rested a week then I didn't warm down after my first long hard ride and tweaked my hamstring, came back, got ill. At least base takes a while to erode.
Good grief the trials and tribulations of the modern (coughs) athlete. Just finished work at 7.45, kj01 is crying with stomach ache, and I've missed my 30 mins taper effort for today. It won't affect my fitness for Sunday but still...
New FTP for me tonight and off on 4 x 5mins at 340w. One minute into the first interval and I knew I was in trouble. Some minor adjustment down to 330W after I completed the first salvaged the session. Looking forward to doing this much more easily in a few weeks time.
I did English at my new FTP yesterday. Max Aerobic Intervals and very much pass the sick bucket. After 2 sets I was finished and so was amazed to see a +1 and a +2 option for the truly masochistic.
Somewhat off topic, but Zwift have put a monster circuit 'The Pretzel' on their fairly tale island. Took me nearly 2 1/2 hours to complete...by far the longest time I've ever sat on a turbo-trainer and I'm knackered today...
No food and one water bottle didn't help...
Just to get some advice from the masses... So I've just finished XCO, after subsequent weekends 2 X races, 1TT and yesterday battle on the beach. Now, my next will be XCM but over the next few weekends I have a club ride and a sportive this weekend, Flanders the following week, and my next XC race 9th April.
My thoughts are between now and the 9th to ditch the turbo where possible and get on the road for an "intense" lunch hour / evening. After 9th I have a month before my XC races kick off again, so I'd start on the 12th with the XCM plan during the week.
Sound sensible? Or will I get fat and unfit? 🙄
Can't help with the training other than make sure the intense stuff is properly intense, not just "Yea that was hard. Maybe."
That's a pretty varied calendar you've got though!
Well, my lunch time loop is 28k of which after 3k out of town the first 10k is a succession of hills(2-5min 120% intervals sims). Then it's a 3k flat on the aero bars (4-5mins sweets spot 90%), then 1k flat rest, then 7k rollers back into town (7-8 mins 90% sweet spot), then cruise back home.
You can see how I've broken it down to be slightly focused on training rather than riding.
But moreover, the reason I ask is that I'm lacking long miles this winter, so would like to get out while I can, and am a bit "turbo'd out" after 95% of my efforts have been on that since December.
I don't want to lose fitness though.
I definitely had a case of the turbo blues last night. Workout was Young which wasn't too bad and I managed it but certainly a bit of going through the motions in my mind. Next up is Acrodectes (1hr 30 of VO2 Max Minute on/ Minute off) which based on my experience with English I'm already dreading.
I think I'm done for the turbo this year. 60+ hours on the thing is enough and the motivation has gone! The clocks go forward at the weekend, so it's time to suspend the trainer rd account, get the summer bike out and get outside!
Yeah. I smashed my loop with a 30kmph average and some PB's on the winter Defy with guards et al. And that was with post BoB aching quads.