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The 8min FTP test is as brutal as you want it to be! By default it will be set to about 10% over and above your current FTP (or 200) but you can of course push harder if you so wish but you should aim to be consistent both throughout the course of each interval and between intervals. So try not to ride one interval at 280W and the other at 240W for example. It takes a couple of tries to get used to the test so the improvements you see the second time you do the test can be as much about this as actual fitness.
TrainerRoad's recommendation is that you have a day of rest (at least) before doing the test. Worth noting what you do, eat, etc. during the day so next time you do it you can be consistent. Ideally everything in your set up should be the same.
It takes a couple of tries to get used to the test so the improvements you see the second time you do the test can be as much about this as actual fitness.
I'd say that's where a lot of people early gains come from, you get better at testing
My first test I improved from the base 200 to 218 (9%), on the second I went from 218 to 226 (3.5%).
Even though I've not been using TR over the summer when I was out in Majorca one of our group had a power meter (Stages) and on a long climb it gave an average power for him of 230W, I was keeping up with him (lost about 50 metres in 9.5Km). Strava's estimated power for me on that segment was also 230W.
If we assume that I've kept my fitness over the summer then having three independent values all very close gives me reasonable confidence in the figures that TR use for VirtualPower.
@mrblobby - bluetooth. Checked HRM was working with strava on phone, but it wouldn't connect with trainer-road.
If you need a day or two of rest before the test I'll wait till next week and just potter along at the default 200 till them. might have a go this evening just to get a feel for what its like.
@mrblobby - bluetooth. Checked HRM was working with strava on phone, but it wouldn't connect with trainer-road.
was it still connected to strava? I found I sometimes had to kill strava to get trainerroad app to recognise bluetooth devices correctly.
Ah maybe, yes I'll give that a go later
No need to have Strava running whilst using TR - you can sync the two automatically once you've completed the workout.
Even though I've not been using TR over the summer when I was out in Majorca one of our group had a power meter (Stages) and on a long climb it gave an average power for him of 230W, I was keeping up with him (lost about 50 metres in 9.5Km). Strava's estimated power for me on that segment was also 230W.
Strava estimated power is likely way off still. You have to factor in the difference in weight between you and the other guy, plus gaining those extra 50m costs a lot of Watts even though it looks like a small gap...
If we assume that I've kept my fitness over the summer then having three independent values all very close gives me reasonable confidence in the figures that TR use for VirtualPower.
As is said all through the thread, TR is not really trying to be "accurate" it is trying to consistent. I wouldn't read too much in to any of these different numbers. Just be consistent in what you use to scale your efforts on the turbo
I'm getting a new turbo soon (Kickr) and was wondering if it's useful to have a cadence sensor for TR or not.
It's another variable for you to monitor and control in your training. I find it useful.
Quite a few of the sweet spot trainer road sessions include cadance drills so for those it'd be useful (obviously). How much dedicated cadence drills are beneficial to a mountain biker I'm not sure about. While I'd love to spin up hills at 100rpm it just doesn't seem to work as I generally spin at 85 (ish) and then spin up for short punchy climbs and the like.
I like having it for TR but don't miss it on the mtb.
The Kickr doesn't transmit cadence data? (Checks internet..) No it doesn't. My Tacx jobber seems to, which I assume must be worked out from the periodic variation in wheel speed. I have a Garmin speed / cadence sensor anyway, and I did ask the TrainerRoad people whether it matter to TR whether the Garmin was connected. Initially they said "well yes, since your Tacx doesn't do cadence", and when I explained that it did they were a bit surprised. I didn't press for more 'tech' support though as I was only curious anyway...
I definitely find it useful having the cadence data, especially using the trainer in ERG mode - then it's the only kind of target I have really, the power just sorts itself out.
I had a fun one last night. I have a Kurt Kinetic RnR, and when I started the workout, it was MUCH harder than expected.
I checked the bike, turbo, tyre, with no luck. Then checked Trainer Road and the turbo trainer setting had reset to the top trainer in the list, so the power curve was completely wrong.
I'm getting a new turbo soon (Kickr) and was wondering if it's useful to have a cadence sensor for TR or not.
Just got a Kickr - it had a cadence sensor in the box as a separate item - not set it up yet though.
Quite a few of the sweet spot trainer road sessions include cadance drills so for those it'd be useful (obviously). How much dedicated cadence drills are beneficial to a mountain biker I'm not sure about. While I'd love to spin up hills at 100rpm it just doesn't seem to work as I generally spin at 85 (ish) and then spin up for short punchy climbs and the like.
having got a speed and cadence sensor to do the virtual power thing i was suprised at how slow my cadence was a lot of the time I seem to ride at about 70. On steady rides I'm going to see if I can keep a higher cadence and see if I notice a difference
Any recommended session for a day before race hour. I normally ride in the real world, gentle for 15 mins, hard for 15 mins, gentle for 1 with start sprints and then warm down. It looks like its going to be rank weather on Sat so I might just do it on the trainer.
Just got a Kickr - it had a cadence sensor in the box as a separate item - not set it up yet though.
That must be a new thing, or a special offer. i bought one about 3 months ago and didn't get a cadence sensor.
Any recommended session for a day before race hour. I normally ride in the real world, gentle for 15 mins, hard for 15 mins, gentle for 1 with start sprints and then warm down.
For day before race I used the workout builder to create a session that was pretty much that (e.g. [url= https://www.trainerroad.com/cycling/rides/2368122-PAL-20-tempo-with-4x1-v2 ]this[/url]).
having got a speed and cadence sensor to do the virtual power thing i was suprised at how slow my cadence was a lot of the time I seem to ride at about 70. On steady rides I'm going to see if I can keep a higher cadence and see if I notice a difference
Different people seem to have different natural cadences, which varies with power too. z2 I'll spin around 90 to 95. Nearer threshold it tends to be around 85 to 90. Tends to be a bit quicker on the road, tends to be a bit slower on the mtb. Worth trying to ride at different cadences though and see what works best for you.
Any recommended session for a day before race hour.
I use Truuli-2 for this. 2 x 5 min FTP intervals and some sprints over 30 mins.
TR description is thus:
[i]
This priming workout for a time trial or road race is recommended 24 hours prior to your TT.
It includes 2x4-minute steady-state efforts @ FTP & two 90-second blowout efforts at 115-125% FTP.
Modifications: 30-minute version[/i]
can also confirm that a wahoo cadence sensor came with my Kickr (3weeks old from wiggle) - was separate in the box.
Havent used it yet my stages does the rpm
Thanks kryton, mrblobby, mrblobby, your one looks ideal 🙂
That must be a new thing, or a special offer.
I just saw somewhere that the cadence sensor was part of an offer.
I was attracted to the Neo because of the rocking motion it had, and when I set the Kickr up I suddenly thought that I might have made a mistake and should have waited for the Neo, as the rigidity of the back end made standing feel funny.
But I had also considered before I bought it that the Kickr has a central brace and two side ones that you level so it might afford a bit of rocking if you didn't lower the feet all the way.
Sure enough it did but I wondered about the long term effect of the impact of the side arms touching the ground.
So I looked in my hifi accessories draw and pulled out some sorbothane feet and have put them under the two lateral feet (feet wound up fully and sorbothane gorilla taped) and also under the front contact point of the central brace.
The back part of the stand still contacts the ground and there is a uber-slight tilt backwards because of the sorbothane pad under the front foot of the central brace - but this flattens out once I get on the bike.
So the amount of motion laterally is not as much as when the feet were just wound up, but there is give because of the sorbothane and standing up feels pretty OK, and not alien to when normally cycling.
It might compromise the power readings and I may take them off later when more used to the trainer, but the feel seems better to me than the raw Kickr.
The Kickr is also on a Kickr mat, so that might also help the feel.
Had a right slump this week, no motivation, did 2 sessions last week then 110 miles on Sunday then nothing this week, didn't go out on Thursday nor today, when I had the chance, nothing on the turbo either
The turn in weather hadn't helped, missing the whole summer feels like I've ridden an endless winter, with only bad weather to come if that makes sense
Right, re-newed the subscription and plan to kick things off again next week. (One of the best features of TR is the ability to shut it down and start it up again with all your data still in place).
Had a complete summer away from competitive cycling and just concentrated on running so I expect to see my FTP drop through the floor before it slowly rises again to somewhere approaching respectable.
Love it that this thread is still going, I find very inspirational 8)
I plan to start next week also - 2 weeks late. Did 70k with some club members today and struggled badly. No power and panting like a dog on heat on the climbs, 40w / 15% less average weighted power than pre illness ides. It did feel good to be riding though. No muscular pain so I know the issues are aerobic.
I really don't want to start with an FTP test 😐
Bought a platform for the top of a camera tripod to hold the laptop on - loaded up Zwift and did a bit of some california route.
Think I am going to use TR though - want some shorter, more focused stuff. Zwift said that it will be having structured workout from November (I think).
Made a bit of a mess with the Suunto mini move stick - installed the Suunto software, then the TrainerRoad USB drivers, and the TR couldn't see any ANT USB device.
So I uninstalled the Suunto and TR stuff and then put the TR stuff back on, then it was OK.
Then I went through pairing stuff up in TR but it couldn't see the Kickr. That appears to be because I paired to the power meter first, which I shouldn't have done as the Kickr is the power meter, so as soon as I unpaired the power meter it could see the Kickr.
Tried to get the Suunto ANT dongle to work on my Nexus 10 as it doesn't have BLE, but I think I need to root it to install software to let it do it, and the same with the options to enable BLE.
[img] 
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Nice set up.
Extra marks for an extension lead directly under the where the pool of sweat will occur 😯
Shocking.
Extra marks for an extension lead directly under the where the pool of sweat will occur
Noted - but I haven't finished yet - I have some fans to mount on the walls and so the extension will take a different path, or be a different one.
The ceiling and walls are a bit cluttered but once I have mounted the fans I was thinking about suing those wifi plugs, then I can fire them up as needed from my phone which will be on that mount on the handlebars!
On Zwift how do people keep making comments - aren't they suppossed to be riding - are are they using voice recognition ???
Just thought I'd chirp in and give a thumbs up to trainerroad.
I've always known how effective trainerroad / turbo training can be but I've always ridden outdoors all year round so never really got into the swing of a turbo plan or similar.
I broke my collar bone about 7 weeks ago pretty badly so I'm not going to be able to ride outdoors for the rest of the year. I started the short power build a few weeks back and I'm really getting into it. I did the sufferfest FTP test and was pleased to see I'm still in pretty good shape considering I've been off the bike for almost a month.
Once I've finished this 8 week plan I'll move onto the XC short track plan.
I'm already 100% sure I'll be fitter than I've ever been before after this.
Roll on next years XC races, I'll be ready to dish out some pain like never before!
On Zwift how do people keep making comments - aren't they suppossed to be riding - are are they using voice recognition ???
There's a mobile companion app, doesn't work for me but I assumed they were using it.
Just wondering if anyone could point me in the right direction of the correct ANT+ dongle adapted for a lightening ipad / iphone socket?
I've got the old 15 pin(?) iPad so the dongle just plugs straight in but I understand I need an adapter to use it on a newer device with the lightening socket?
Thanks
I've not seen a dongle with a lightning plug which would be a tidier solution and odd seeing as the lightning connection has been around for a while now. I think the only current option is to buy one of these which is about as expensive as the actual dongle:
[url= http://www.johnlewis.com/apple-lightning-connection-to-30-pin-adapter/p231760862?sku=231760862&kpid=231760862&s_kenid=4b92f32d-15bf-4496-b4ce-735f4ee8b55e&s_kwcid=402x353299&tmad=c&tmcampid=73 ]15 pin to lightning adapter[/url]
Thanks, thats what i'm looking for. I bought a cheap adapter but it only works for charging and doesnt seem to recognise the Ant+ dongle.
Nice setup TurnerGuy 😀 I really like the camera tripod idea. My laptop sits on an upturned bucket, how's that for posh 8)
Nice setup TurnerGuy
Getting some docking stations for the laptop so I can move it between the main setup and the bike setup easier, without having to unplug so many cables, plus I can lash the dock on to the top of that tripod table so it is more secure.
Had my first go yesterday - determined that I need more fans and I shouldn't wear H/H Lifa long sleeve tops as they are too hot.
Got the Wahoo fitness app going on the phone on the bars as well so every minute a female voice tells me my averages for that minute.
Will start on of the base (sweet maybe) plans on TR after a few more goes so the shock of a FTP test doesn't kill me.
I have mounted the fans I was thinking about suing those wifi plugs, then I can fire them up as needed from my phone which will be on that mount on the handlebars!
Now that I like!
Are you not using the PM to control the Kickr then? Be interested to know how well that works.
Had my first go yesterday - determined that I need more fans and I shouldn't wear H/H Lifa long sleeve tops as they are too hot.
😯 Topless turbo for me!
I really don't want to start with an FTP test
Kryton... get on with it! 🙂
Are you not using the PM to control the Kickr then?
PM?
At the moment I have just be playing with Zwift, so that has been controlling the Kickr - I have been running the Wahoo fitness app and letting it record a workout, but it's not controlling anything.
just about to reactivate my trainerroad sub. anyone seen any promo codes around?
TurnerGuy, you can get TrainerRoad (and maybe Zwift too) to control your Kickr based on output from your Power Meter instead of the power the Kickr measures. Quite a few threads on other forums complaining about the variability of power measured by the Kickr and using this as a solution.
I have nagging trapezius pain and I'm sure its becuase I'm looking down at my laptop which is balanced on a footstool about 18" of the ground.
That tripod has given me an idea to rectify it though.
This is the tripod table I bought :
http://www.amazon.co.uk/gp/product/B001T9J9JE?psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=oh_aui_detailpage_o05_s00
There's a manfrotto version as well :
Several complete stands on Amazon as well, but their reviews were all a bit here and there.
My laptop is a heavy Dell Precision M6600 17 inch and the table is not ideal as it is slightly too small and has a ridge around the edge, but it seems stable when everything is done up tight, and when I have lashed my docking station to it is should be better.
I'be been riding. I still have a slight sore throat.
An 8 min test will be fine.... right? Should I knock it down a few % top account for 4 weeks off? Or leave it at prior FTP?
Tripod table with docking station gorilla taped on (didn't really need the lower taping):
[img] 
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17inch Laptop securely held :
[img] 
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Back on TR and in the spirit of optimism, I gave [i]revolver[/i] a whirl this evening. My God it was hard 🙁 Managed to finish it just about.
Felt like a boss last time I did it, as well. Might have to work back up to that one.
An 8 min test will be fine.... right? Should I knock it down a few % top account for 4 weeks off? Or leave it at prior FTP?
Do you honestly think you're still at the same level? If not I'd knock it down as otherwise I can forsee a real temptation to go out hard and fade away over the 8 minutes.
My last ftp was too long ago and I know I'm not even close so I'll be easing myself back into it in a couple of weeks. I think especially with some of the sweetspot work that being slightly under is no bad thing as it's a long way to racing season (for me at least)