In fact in at least two decades of cycling, walking etc i don’t think I’ve ever seen a dog chase a cyclist
"He's just being friendly".
Ahhh… got it… My fault then that I have scars on the legs because I was bitten by the dog.
So silly, silly of me, just being standing there whilst out of control dog was shredding my leg…
Okay, for the avoidanceof doubt, I'm not saying, or suggesting, that anyone who gets attacked by a dog is necessarily at fault. Obviously in the vast majority of cases they're not.
However, what i was saying is that dogs aren't going away. They'll always be here, and there will always be ones that aren't properly trained or have been abused and are aggressive. That being the case, developing strategies to deal with them is probably a good idea.
In my opinion, those who talk about riding away from dogs are adopting the wrong strategy. Firstly, if a big dog really wants to catch you, unless you're Cavendish you're unlikely to outrun it. Secondly, if a dog does chase, you're participating by giving it something to chase. Much better to stop, tell the dog to sod off and wait for the owner to (hopefully) appear. Dogs will generally back away from someone who stands up to them.
I appreciate that some people have had bad experiences with dogs. Unfortunately bad experiences happen. I've been mugged twice (once at gunpoint), been attacked in bars and clubs back in the day and been injured on football/rugby pitches more times than I care to count (let alone cycling injuries). But I'm not calling for all scrotes to be kept on chains (though come to think of it..), for alcohol to be banned (the Yanks tried that, see rise of the Mafia), or all sports to be non contact. Unfortunately life involves risks and whilst the vast majority of dogs (and owners) are safe, there'll always be a small minority that aren't. Hence the advice around mitigation.
Finally, some stats:
2019 - 9000 people treated in hospital for dog bites
2016 - 18,000 people treated in hospital for bike crashes
2019 - 1.26million people treated in hospital for alcohol related issues
Obviously 9000 people is 9000 more than ideal. But in the wider context of 65million people going about their daily business it's tiny, approx 25 a day. Whereas the cycling stat is pertinent to the percentage of the population who cycle (less than 10%), which means you are far, far more likely to get hurt riding your bike than you ever are by a dog.
Of course, if you get into the cycling stats you'd see that kids under the age of 10 are far more likely to get hurt. So we'll start by banning them from riding bikes.
Then you'll see that wearing helmets makes you less likely to be seriously injured. So we'll make that a legal requirement.
Then busy roads are much more dangerous, so we'll ban cycling on them too for good measure..
At the end of the day I'm not trying to prove anyone wrong. Individual experience is what defines us. However, using massive generalisations about any community of people is plain wrong, as is using insulting language about the intelligence/morals of said community. On that at least I'd hope we'd all agree
The sad thing from all this long post is that in my eyes it looks like you are sort of down playing issue of dog bites...
It is smaller than some obvious offender, so we can brush it off...
Just repeating myself from 2 pages before:
But that is not dog’s fault that it is a dog. It is owner’s fault not to be considerate enough prior. Either on training of dog or making up decision to take/not to take dog to the ride.
Dogs are not problem, as they are dogs, their owners are problem, as they are people.
Cheers!
I.
“Surely even the best trained dogs like say a police dog or something is allowed to run around off lead at some point?”
Police dogs are very well trained to do certain things but are often unsafe in other environments - I know a police dog handler and even her retired dog can’t be walked off the lead when other people or dogs are likely to be around in case he decides to take them down as he would a suspect.
I like dogs but they’re not the most predictable creatures, bikes move fast and a certain proportion of dog owners are pretty clueless. I’ve ridden with a friend’s trail dog once and although he was pretty well behaved I did have to keep my wits about me in case he got too close to the bike. I don’t think busier trails are a sensible place for them.
In fact in at least two decades of cycling, walking etc i don’t think I’ve ever seen a dog chase a cyclist.
I can recall at least 5 times that I have been chased by a dog when riding. It doesn't feel great but I just sprint off and it then gives up after a while but if I was a bit scared of dogs, was a slow rider etc,. it may not have been a great experience for someone else.
Has anyone else watched that Collie 'downhilling' clip linked above and thought animal cruelty rather than sick edit?
I like dogs but they’re not the most predictable creatures
That was kind of my point, a guide dog may have been a better example!
. I don’t think busier trails are a sensible place for them.
I agree.
Has anyone else watched that Collie ‘downhilling’ clip linked above and thought animal cruelty rather than sick edit?
Not watched it but generally I dont think having a dog run while you cycle would be very good for its long term health.
2019 – 9000 people treated in hospital for dog bites
That's the tip of the iceberg - it's been estimated that in the UK around 150 000 people a year are bitten by dogs, of which 0.6% result in hospital treatment - I've been bitten by dogs several times but never gone to hospital for it. I'd suggest that figure is something to be concerned about but I can't see anything being done - I have this picture in my mind of dog owners burying their heads into their Daily Mail because that's other people's dogs, not their own dog that never gives more than a "friendly nip".
On the trail dog thing, I hate having someone elses dog darting about under my wheels, not just because it spoils my ride and may result in me crashing into a tree but also because I really don't want to injure a dog by running over it. And an issue no-one seems to have brought up so far is the law and liability. You are required by law to have your dog under control at all times, and you are liable for any damage it causes. So if you let your dog run around loose on mountain bike trails (or anywhere else for that matter) you'd better have some good liability insurance.
I have been bitten, several times.
I have been bitten, several times.
By a dog or for enjoyment?
Dog owners burying their heads in their daily mail? Someone has some prejudices.
They are all the same those dog owners.
We have a Labrador and a westie. Westie is a grade A rule number one breaker. Westie has collars, harness and lead with big letters on saying do not touch. Westie never comes off lead due to him being a ****. Is that enough or should I slit his throat?
Labrador is insanely friendly and just wants to run around playing with sticks and jumping in muddy puddles. Lab isn’t trained enough to be at my side the whole time but I don’t want that. I walk in woods without many footpaths so rarely see anyone else.
What else would you judge ****s want me to do?
For what it’s worth, I’m using fod as an example as its local, the footpaths and bridleways were there long before the trail centre came in. So who is actually in who’s garden?
Dogs on leads in public spaces at all times. Thanks👍 end of thread.
Good plan, anything that some people don’t like ban. I hate kids, can we ban them from being loose in public as well?!
Kids are human, dogs are not-human.
Cheers!
I.
I didn't say ban dogs dude, dogs should be kept on leads in public spaces at all times. Everybody wins👍
You can enjoy bubbles
Bubbles gets walkies
Strangers get to relax around bubbles
Be considerate to others and smiley faces all round☺️
More kids have gotten in my way than dogs though, therefore judged on your previous argument they are unpredictable. I agree that it’s not appropriate for dogs to be off lead in certain places and situations but in your blind unable to reason ways most of you brush over that and still say dog owners are all the same.
Like I said this is a stupid argument. No one is right.
I know it’s was a tongue in cheek comment but if all dogs are required to be on lead in public then that instantly means police dogs and search and rescue dogs have to follow those rules. Rendering them unable to do the job they do. Kind of the same as enforcing a top speed restriction on vehicles, emergency vehicles would have to follow the same rules
I’ve been bitten by way more kids than dogs. The one bite I received from a dog was when I had gone where I’d been warned not to be because the guard dog will bite me, totally my fault. All the bites from kids have been because they are undisciplined little shits. Funnily enough, the owner usually claims they’ve never done that before...
Nah.
Police/search dogs will be exempt, exemption certificates can be carried by the handler with regular training required.
Emergency vehicles can break the speed limit now mister👍
Good plan, anything that some people don’t like ban. I hate kids, can we ban them from being loose in public as well?!
Would get my vote. They get in the way just as much as loose dogs do. If riding and walking on shared paths then all parties need to take responsibility.
I don't head towards walkers zig zagging around with them wondering whether I may hit them, I slow down, ride on opposite side in a straight line, i.e. I am under control just as kids and dogs should be.
I know they can, I’m was just pointing out that emergency services have to follow the law, so if it was law that vehicles have to be limited to say 70mph then emergency vehicles would as well. Although I could be wrong I thought the law was meant to be absolute so it’s the same for everyone to follow. Writing in exceptions for certain groups of people didn’t work
Sorry that was a weird analogy
Anyway think I’m done, I haven’t tried to change opinions I just think life isn’t as clear cut as some of your arguments.
Fwiw the wife just pointed out she has been hit or bitten by more kids in public than dogs
Wow. It gets more and more extreme. That bit of research quoted above was a sample of 690 people. Hardly definitive imho. And furthermore, even if you were to take its sweeping generalisations seriously, you'd see you're 3.3 times more likely to be bitten if you're already a dog owner. Ergo, most people who are bitten are dog owners. A bit like most people who get hurt in bike accidents are bike riders..
Regarding dogs on leads, anyone who works with and trains dogs knows that key to their behaviour is socialisation, both with other dogs and with humans. The only dogs I meet with "issues" are the ones on leads constantly being pulled away from contact with anyone or anything.
And I come back again to our chosen hobby. Cycling exposes you to far, far more risk than you ever will be exposed to with dogs. If we accept the 180,000 dog bites per annum as fact (rather than largely conjecture), then if we apply the same factor of non-reported cycling injuries it would be 400,000 per annum. But that 400,000 is from a sample size of approximately 5.2million (as opposed to a 65million sample size for dog bites).
So (based on my admittedly rudimentary maths skills), as a cyclist you have a 7.5% chance of getting injured each year (probably higher as a mountain biker). As a member of the public you have a quarter of 1% chance of being bitten by a dog, actually far, far less than that given that a lot of dog bites are inflicted on people who already own them.
Which is all somewhat apropos of nothing, other than to demonstrate that some of us are happy to engage in a past-time with a comparatively high risk factor, in comparison to that which is twisting so many knickers.
At the end of the day, all bites are bad bites and I agree that dogs should be under the control of their owners. That doesn't necessarily mean 'on the lead' but in some cases that may be necessary. But when I walk in my local parks, by the river/canal, on bridleways i see multiple dogs, off lead interacting happily with other people, children, families etc. Generally speaking dogs bring a huge positive impact. We're a nation of animal lovers. Caging and leading all dogs would be perverse and actually drive the opposite of what we all want.
Funnily enough, the biggest dog related issue i have as a cyclist is dogs on leads (particularly extendable ones which I dislike for a number of reasons) extending the leads across footpaths, creating a tripwire like hazard. Lethal. Dogs off leads!
Actually, I can think of one country where they often have laws about dogs on leads, even separate dog parks. They also have laws that allow people to own and carry guns and over 40,000 gun related deaths annually. I know which id rather live under..
[kids] They get in the way just as much as loose dogs
But not in the same way. Kids are much more predictable in general and change direction much less suddenly and less often
But not in the same way. Kids are much more predictable in general and change direction much less suddenly and less often
Really? I have to admire that you're living up to your chosen moniker with what can only be described as a massive sweeping generalisation.
So I'll ask, what age of children are you applying your sweeping generalisations to? Under 5s? I'd say not, they are random as. Under 10s? Nope, still pretty random. I'd accept 10 upwards, but older kids can still be space heads who do sudden, inexplicable things.
In the case of dogs, if one is running about wildly it tends to be fairly obvious. They're usually playing with another dog. If they're in your vicinity and you're on a bike exercise due care (just like if kids are charging aroynd). But the idea that some dog plodding along is suddenly going to spin 360 charge one way, then the other, is laughable.
When I'm out on the bike, I'm way, way more leery of families with young kids than I am with dogs. Dogs tend to have good situational awareness, kids are clueless.
But not in the same way. Kids are much more predictable in general and change direction much less suddenly and less often
Again, I invite you to go for a ride round Glentress with my 7yo daughter.
Wow. It gets more and more extreme.
Really?! I thought everyone would be shaking virtual hands (or paws) and agreeing by page 4. .. lolZ
this is an interesting thread, but only really attracting people for and people against and no middle ground.
this thread has made me pay more attention to what i do when i meet a dog on a trail. i stop and move over so the owner can pass as i figure that it’s easier for me on my own to move than for the owner. and i thank the dog owners who do the same for me.
my real irritation is calling dogs trail dogs. that is too “lifestyle” for me too cope with.
but i have a question. why do dogs engender so much love and devotion from people who like dogs? and slightly less genuine question, why do dog people hate cats? is it because they can’t be trained?
a lot of my friends are dog owners. i just see a too big/small slobbery animal messing up their house and needing care.
i would like a pet pig, though
That's an interesting and considered post LAT.
Where to begin? For starters what you're doing is correct vis a vis dogs/owners. I'm also a dog walker and I encounter lots of cyclists of all types and flavours. I appreciate the ones who let me know they're there and always get out of the way. A bit of courtesy goes a long way. After all, most dedicated bike trails share land/space with walkers, there's always the potential for unintended interaction.
Why dogs? For me they are companions, friends, associates. We have a mutual bond of need. They provide me with love, affection and unquestioning loyalty. Not to mention (sometimes forced on my part) exercise and protection (very much doubt you'll get a "bikes nicked from garage" thread from me). Exercise from walks means fresh air and open spaces too, plus it's sociable as you get to meet and talk to lots of other dog owners. Most importantly though, they're mates. It's friendship (albeit with a hierarchy). My dog knows me, knows when I'm happy, sad, stressed etc. She's always there, a friend to bounce about with, a source of comfort when I need it.
We of course provide them with a home, a pack, food and drink, health care love and affection. It's a mutually beneficial and rewarding relationship based on partnership.
Breed dependent to an extent, they are intelligent and have distinct personalities. My dog has a vocabulary in excess of 100 words, and that's without ever really trying. She is part of the family and it's not an exaggeration to say the house feels a bit empty when she's not there.
I could go on, but I think you get the picture.
As for Trailhound, for me its just a term for any dog that enjoys cycling (mine whines when I go out on the bike without her, but not when I leave the house on foot. Draw your own conclusions). Its not a lifestyle accessory, any more than taking her for a walk is. It's just something we both enjoy doing.
Ps - pigs are meant to be great pets. Intelligent, social, loyal; like dogs they'll form bonds with their owners. However, if you think dogs are messy and smelly, you've got something off the scale when it comes to pigs..
As Vincent so memorably put it "Pigs sleep and root in sh1t. That's a filthy animal. I ain't eat nothin' that ain't got enough sense enough to disregard its own faeces." Though we'll ignore the 'eat' bit
When I’m out on the bike, I’m way, way more leery of families with young kids than I am with dogs. Dogs tend to have good situational awareness, kids are clueless.
That may be true but I have never been chased by a child jumping up at me and barking so it is currently 5-0 to dogs on that one so far.
Pigs are very clean and will only sleep in their own faeces if kept in too cramped quarters. They are particular animals a decent sized sty will have a defecating corner. They do urinate in floor mounted water troughs though as it's a survival thing, hence nipple drinkers or wall mounted cup drinkers.
thanks for the reply. i’m a bit concerned that i now feel like a miserable sod who’s incapable of love!
i wasn’t trying to start another argument /winky
I like dogs and cats. A pot bellied pig would be an awesome addition to the household. It would be even better if you could peal bacon off it a la Simpsons Garden of Eden episode.
That may be true but I have never been chased by a child jumping up at me and barking so it is currently 5-0 to dogs on that one so far.
Fair enough, kids don't really do the barking thing i guess. I do wonder about people getting chased so much. As an adult its never happened to me, and I ride on an almost daily basis in environments with lots of dogs. Furthermore I don't recall ever seeing anyone else being chased by a dog, ever. Maybe it's like a Keystone cops episode and every time I turn a corner the chase has just dashed down a side road or is happening behind me!
In fairness, I've just recalled an incident from when I was about 7 and a dog bit my hand as I cycled past (I think). That said, I also got beaten up and punched a few times at school and I'd take a dog bite over that.
I get chased by dogs on a semi regular basis when on my bike, probably a least once a fortnight, last time was Monday morning while riding through a park, the owner kept blowing a whistle but it didn't stop the dog running 100 yards to bark and snarl at my back wheel.
I find border collies and border collie crosses are the worst for it.
I find border collies and border collie crosses are the worst for it.
We bring it on ourselves.
I do wonder about people getting chased so much. As an adult its never happened to me, and I ride on an almost daily basis in environments with lots of dogs.
Either you are very special or I am 🙂
When I say it has happened 5 times that is over a long period. For example the last time was in 2019 so no chasing at all in 2020. I have the attitude that the dog is playing and have never been harmed by one but it is still not a great experience and for some would be enough to put them off cycling I would think. The dog is always being shouted at by the owner to come back but the dog is simply not trained or not listening and I don't think the "they are only playing" line really excuses letting a poorly trained dog off the lead (and I know all about poorly trained dogs as I have two of them!)
On public routes (bridleways etc), everyone should follow the first rule. In trail centres a well behaved dog close to its owner = no problem, but I’ve enough to concentrate on already without my attention being diverted to looking out for someone else’s dog.
Which is why if you are not feeling threatened it might be better to stop and tell the owner that they need to up their game rather than potentially lead the dog into trouble.
The only time I’ve been seriously bitten (i.e. broke the flesh on my shin, rather than a little nibble) I stopped and asked for the owners details, then reported it to the police who took it seriously. The owners admitted that they’d struggled to control it and agreed to hand it over. It’s now a police dog.
No issue with a well trained trail dog.
That said how many out of control dogs at trail centres do people actually come across that it's worth starting a thread about? Some people on here are makjng out its a genuine problem, yet in all my time going to trail centres I've met maybe 2 out of control dogs. And when that happened I just pulled over for 20 seconds so as to not run it over ...cost to me, absolutely nothing.
I've come across far more young children getting in the way at trail centres than dogs. But again, I'm not in a race so pulling over for 30 seconds so I don't run the little scamps over isnt a hardship as some prople aPpear to make out it would be.
