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I’d take the Orbea – better head angle, broadly similar standard of fork but with more travel (Z2 is essentially a Fox 34 grip damper), shorter seat tube.
Better head angle for what application, though? The majority of my riding will be XC or road/gravel tracks, with only occasional trail (mainly due to locality of decent trail and available time). The head angle on the Laufey is actually what’s putting me off it, just seems too far into the trail camp for my planned usage...
Paradiso
MemberHow about one of these?
https://www.leisurelakesbikes.com/354917/products/merida-big-trail-600-29er-hardtail-mountain-bike-2021-purple.aspx
Was looking at that Merida Trail 600 today, but wasn’t too impressed with the spec for that kind of money.
Better head angle for what application, though? The majority of my riding will be XC or road/gravel tracks, with only occasional trail (mainly due to locality of decent trail and available time). The head angle on the Laufey is actually what’s putting me off it, just seems too far into the trail camp for my planned usage…
Most things really. It hasn’t got an outrageously long reach (medium is 432mm I think - I’m 5’9 and I’m building one with a 445mm reach which also isn’t that long)so it doesn’t have an enormous wheelbase. That headangle will give you some more stability at speed - but the steering won’t be slow either.
If you’re determined to get the Grand Canyon then just get one - you have to be happy with your purchase.
Ruled out the Orbea Laufey and now torn between the Grand Canyon 8 and a Radon Jealous AL 9.0...
The Radon is a coupe of Kgs lighter and has slightly better spec (depending on your SRAM/Shimano bias), but is much more of an XC race machine than the Canyon. I think that means it’s probably better suited to the majority of my needs, but I’m just a bit concerned it might struggle on more technical trails...Dalby Forest Red Route is likely to be the top end of the scale for me, and I get the impression that’s slightly more technical than it was when I used to ride it 10/11 years ago.
I’m very undecided and would be great full of more thoughts from the forum.
Personally it sounds like you ride a mix of things and that Radon, whilst being very light, is unlikely to be huge fun on a red trail centre trail vs something more trail orientated. It’s got basically a 69 head angle, long ish chainstays but a fairly short wheelbase and 100mm fork travel. If you’re going at speed that’s going to be more twitchy than the Grand Canyon which in itself is less stable than something like that Orbea.
If you’re just after outright speed uphills and on very easy trails then go for it. My order of bike purchasing would be Orbea > Grand Canyon > Radon I think.
I’m very undecided and would be great full of more thoughts from the forum.
*grateful
The Scandel geo is pretty close to the Big Dog which has been great at trail centres and on the road; so I very much doubt the Scandel wouldn't be just as adaptable. Mine came with a dropper 203/180 rotors 90% GX and 35s, all for £1200. Oh and the Gomas pumped up with a track pump when I changed to tubeless.
joebristol
Free MemberPersonally it sounds like you ride a mix of things and that Radon, whilst being very light, is unlikely to be huge fun on a red trail centre trail vs something more trail orientated. It’s got basically a 69 head angle, long ish chainstays but a fairly short wheelbase and 100mm fork travel. If you’re going at speed that’s going to be more twitchy than the Grand Canyon which in itself is less stable than something like that Orbea.
If you’re just after outright speed uphills and on very easy trails then go for it. My order of bike purchasing would be Orbea > Grand Canyon > Radon I think
I hear you man. And I’d love to get the Orbea, but the thing is, all my friends are on road bikes. I only have space/money for one bike, and a roady just does not appeal to me. But I would like to get something which would allow me to join them now and then without massively holding them back. I know that’s going to be virtually impossible on a mountain bike vs a road bike, but I think I’ll stand a better chance if I get something fast and nimble like the Radon, and it will still allow me to tackle the occasional XC trail.
I’ve been out of mountain biking for nearly 10 years. I’ve only recently started to get back into it, and had only really been running for exercise before that. My current bike is a Boardman HT Pro I bought on the C2W scheme back in 2009 and I used to do Dalby Red Route on that without a problem, and generally when I go out now, I go for distance over thrills.
In which case go for the Radon and some semi click tyres - or get a spare set of wheels you can bang some slicks on and keep the ones that come on the bike with mtb tyres on I reckon.
Either that or could you squeeze in a secondhand road bike for about £300 and go more trail on the mtb? You’d be surprised how much quicker a road bike with drop bars / 700 x 25c tyres is than even a quick / light mtb.
Just get a spare set of wheels with fast fat road tyres. Virtually any decent MTB wouldn't be far off in terms of speed. The biggest hold back is the single chain ring. You'd need to get free hubs and cassettes compatible with what you already have, with a 10 small cog. Due to free hub choice some wheels will only take an 11 tooth.
I don’t see many people keeping up on an mtb with fat slicks if you’re chasing someone who takes road cycling seriously. Little bit more drag from fat tyres, but more of an issue is aero with flat / riser bars.
I’ve got a Cannondale Caad12 disc with 25c tyres on it and even on my last hardtail which wasn’t too heavy I’d have got nowhere near the easy speed. Even dropping some rolling resistance and a few lbs more weight I just don’t see it.
Cheapie secondhand road bike for £400 (Spec Allez/ Giant / Boardman etc) with some of your budget and a Vitus Sentier 27 or 29 VR for £1100. Best of both worlds.
No way an MTB can generally keep up with a roadie crew.
There are two S2's that come out with us on their mtb's early in the season and as a bad A4 on my road bike I can beat them.
The riding position just isn't as efficient and at speed it's like pushing a barn door.
Surely if they are good friends of yours they will/should go at your pace, I'd expect my mate's to do that for me.
Indeed. Them’s the rules! They’re all pretty serious about it, though, so I’d feel awkward making them go too slowly!
Also, a couple of them are planning to do a trekking trip, which they plan to do on gravel bikes, and I’d like something I could join them on.
Sentier and a gravel / cyclocross bike? Something like a Caad X secondhand perhaps, or a Planet X something or other (don’t think a space chicken will be cheap enough
Unfortunately)
Inexpensive 2nd road bike is a great idea, I just don’t know where I’d keep it! I’m afraid, until I move to a bigger house, I’m limited to just one bike.
Man, I’m so torn! 😩
Well ultimately I don't see any one hardtail being tremendously faster than another so a hardtail and a spare set of wheels . Reminds me of the local city club that used to train like dervishes every winter and then get blown away at the races. They'd train too hard, never seemed to learn that you build a base best by doing long easy miles. I just used to ride the twenty odd miles to work and back two or three times a week. There's serious and then plain dumb.
@cloggy - that is kinda the conclusion I’d arrived at, it’s just a matter of which bike I settle on.
Got a Grand Canyon 6 on Thursday going out in a couple of hours, will report back. Wish me luck!
Head angle etc. Won't change your speed on the road. Bar height will
I think it choices time. Could you do 2 sets of wheels? Then either buy a gravel bike with road wheels and 650b wheels off road. Wouldn't quite work at Dalby but loads to do in the rest of the north york moores
Or buy a full race style hardtail again 2 sets of wheels. The key is abit more tuck. I have been round Dalby black and red with people on 100mm travel race hardtails. I assume they were fine. I couldnt see as i couldnt keep up
Radon have also launched the Jealous AL 8, which features the slightly burlier 35 Gold RL fork and a dropper post, and is £200 cheaper. Still maintains a good spec drivetrain but rims are downgraded, so I guess it will be slightly heavier but still fast, and I assume a tad more trail capable?
Went out on my Grand Canyon yesterday, Mrs Kilo was on a cx bike and we did a run I normally do on a cx bike (Nirvana loop) and it was bone dry on the trails. I am a very crap mtb’er - no air or big drops just xc type riding (I’m roadie at heart & even worse used to be a tester!)
The canyon was just what I hoped in being a fast xc bike. Other bikes might be a bit quicker but there’s not going to be much in it.
I have an ibis 650b full sus and over the last few years, after a big crash in a race in Canada, I’d pretty much stopped using it and would almost always take a cx bike for the Surrey hills and swinley riding we do. The canyon is going to be the step back to mtbs and deep winter hack.
As for road use, you will be very upright and With a wide frontal area - a bit of a windsock compared to a road bike, the 1x gearing will have a lot of gaps (I found myself going for a few ghost front ring changes in the first couple of hours). You’ll probably be able to keep up with roadies if you’re strong, they’re not caning it and you change the tyres. Whether you’ll enjoy that bit is a moot point!
If you can store second set of wheels your not far off storing a road bike - wheels off, bars turned and tucked up saddle dropped.
Seriously like the Grand Canyon but get a road bike as well (or a 650 / 700c cx bike).
@kilo - thanks for the review. Sounds like the Grand Canyon is perfect for you.
I may add a road bike at some point, but my focus is definitely on just an MTB at the moment. I might look at getting a second set of wheels in the short term, but I'll probably end up just getting a spare pair of tyres. That's what I do with my current bike - I have a set of Conti Double Fighters for road duties, Racing Ray/Rocket Ron combi for light XC, and a set of Nobby Nics for when things get a bit gnarly. I have no problem swapping them round.
To make my decision even more impossible, Radon have now launched this, which has really caught my eye! https://www.bike-discount.de/en/buy/radon-skeen-trail-al-8.0-1052567?currency=3&delivery_country=190 - If only I could raise the extra £400!!
if you're happy to spend less, the boardman mht 8.9 @ £1000 looks great value for money. Or the decathlon rockrider 100 for £1400 if you want full sus
That full suss will make you even slower than a hardtail on the road so I wouldn’t be too bothered about that. My hardtails have always been better joining bridleway a with road sections than the full suss.
That Jealous AL has a slightly odd spec - that Rockshox 35 fork is 35mm stanchions - so it’s not very XC even at 100mm travel. You normally see it on budget long travel trail bikes or budget enduro bikes. Would have thought a Recon or Reba would have made more sense in terms of weight when only 100mm travel required.
@joebristol - Yeah, I've ruled out the Jealous AL 8.0; as you say, the spec doesn't make much sense for me. An yes, the Skeen full-sus is completely off brief, but I just like the look of it!
Well, here it is...after way too much deliberation, I finally settled on this. Did I make the right choice? Possibly not, but due to a couple of twists of fate, I only ended up paying £1k for it, so that help me see past its shortcomings!
Pic doesn’t work for me, might be my iPhone?
How did you get it for £1k? That down to c2w saving? Shows as being £1400 on bike-discount.
Just the job. But your tea towel is a disgrace
What are those grips? How does it ride?
Looks like Ergon GA3 to me.
That frame architecture is identical to my Cube reaction SL,even the cable routing is the same.Wonder if Cube make frames for Radon?
Hope it gives you what your looking for.
@6079smithw - Yep, Ergon GA3 grips and so far so good in terms of ride quality. I've yet to get it out on a proper trail, but a couple of longish rides out over local bridleway, it's a massive improvement over the outgoing bike. I was surprised how much of a difference going from 26" to 29" wheels make. Feels a lot faster, generally much smoother, and much much easier climbing.
Hoping to get up to Cannock Chase tomorrow, which will be the true test.
@ogri - Yes, I think there is some sharing of components and possibly manufacturing resources between Cube and Radon. Radon is a fair bit cheaper, though, and seems to have a more progressive design ethos (excluding the Jealous range, which is fairly traditional XC geom)
That looks nice.
Going back to the keeping up with roadies discussion, in my extremely scientific tests, holding the bars of a hardtail just either side of the stem so that your arms form an arrowhead rather than a sail is worth just over 1mph.