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Apart from his two grand tour wins, you mean
If it weren't for two very unusual stages where Quintana got rather lucky the results of those GT could have been very different. Giro was the "neutralised" Stelvio descent where Uran slowed but Nairo controversially kept on pushing. Vuelta was the crazy stage where Contador forced an early break and Nairo got on by the skin of his teeth but Froome didn't. Take out the time differences on just those two stages and the winners would have been Uran and Froome. He didn't make up enough time on the climbs to make up for his losses on the flat ITT. Unconvincing.
Regarding the Aru not attacking a mechanical thing. At that point the race wasn't yet on, there weren't any GC threats up the road. And everyone obeys it as what goes around comes around.
G does what he does best
He has to be one of the best, yet unluckiest, riders in the peloton. Not sure why he gets involved in so many crashes.
Some riders just seem to magically avoid things like that. Armstong (and this is entirely separate to any doping stuff) never had any really bad luck. A few bad days, a couple of minor falls but he never once crashed out.
Sky on the other hand seem very adept at crashing out or at least suffering some pretty devastating damage as a result of crashes.
Wiggins in 2011 (which then cost G the white jersey when they called the entire team back to "support" him before reaslising he wasn't going to be getting on and riding again)
Froome with several successive crashes a couple of years ago
G (Giro this year, Tour this year, Tour in 2013 when he broke his pelvis, Tirreno-Adriatico in 2014 when he hit a tree whie in 2nd place overall, Olympic RR when he crashed while part of the leading group...) This list just goes on.
I mean, I know he's a brilliant rider, hard as nails, and he's clearly got huge amounts of potential to be the best in the world but not with crash stats like that.
Like Yates's comments...
I think the thing that makes cycling and particularly grand tours different from other sports is the impact of group riding. It's not a time trial, but it's about trying to break away from your GC competitors. Using a competitor's mechanical to make that break is unsporting, and equally it makes no real odds to the GC race if you neutralise for a minute.
Of course, if Aru had gone 10 seconds earlier, it would be fair game to carry on attacking.
The Porte/Martin incident isn't comparable. Nobody launched an attack off the back of that crash, the group simply carried on racing and needed to do so in order to reel in Bardet (who's a GC threat) once they hit the flat.
This list just goes on.
you can add TJ & Barguil forcing him into the telegraph pole on the descent of the Col de Manse in the tdf 2015 to the list
Not sure why he gets involved in so many crashes.
Some combination of inattention and poor descending/braking skills.
The crash that put him out was his 3rd of this TDF, and the 2nd he more or less admitted he wasn't concentrating and rode off the road into a hay bale.
Disappointed for Dan Martin. His comments here are worth a read...
After the Porte crash and a wheel change...
“I didn’t have any brakes going into the next corner [because of the wheel change] so I crashed again,” he continued. “I just went straight on into the wall as I literally just didn’t have any brakes.
😯
“I didn’t have any brakes going into the next corner [because of the wheel change] so I crashed again,” he continued. “I just went straight on into the wall as I literally just didn’t have any brakes.
sounds like the mechanic didn't flip the quick release back after the change.
I'm sure CF will be along in a minute to tell us that wouldn't have been a problem with disc brakes 😉
Could be that Geraint often finds himself in the thick of it, riding in front of Froome so much - with other riders taking risks around him?
Anyway, he is not a lucky guy - I'm sure we can all agree.
Gutted for Martin, he's my fave of the GC contenders and I was fascinated to see how well he got on this year.
Heroic effort from Uran, almost as impressive as Gwin winning Leogang chainless.
I'm not a Froome fan and would be happy to see him beaten, but Aru's attack was pure pantomime villain stuff. And did Nibali ride up and have a word with him about it?
As an aside...
Froome has clearly been working on his descending. A few years ago he looked vulnerable on technical descents. I'm sure I remember Contador attacking him in 2013.
He wasn't going to hold Bardet's wheel when he attacked but among the rest of the GC riders he seemed very comfortable.
And did Nibali ride up and have a word with him about it?
Would be an impressive feat seeing as he's at a training camp in San Pellegrino 😉
I'm sure CF will be along in a minute to tell us that wouldn't have been a problem with disc brakes
Does Froome use STW?
😯
Would be an impressive feat seeing as he's at a training camp in San Pellegrino
😳
😆
I'm not a Froome fan and would be happy to see him beaten, but Aru's attack was pure pantomime villain stuff. And did Nibali ride up and have a word with him about it?
Agreed. I heard Quintana was also calling it, so that's [s]3[/s]2 contenders thinking the same way, enough for me.
EDIT: Didn't read that properly - Porte and Quintana were the ones I'd seen quoted.
However...
Would be interesting tactically if it was clearly stated at the start of a race that mechanicals = tough shit, crack on - would people still go wireless, tubular tyres, superlight frames etc. ? I'm assuming most would as they wouldn't make it to their bikes if the benefits didn't significantly outweigh the chane of failure.
But I'm not interested enough to see a grand tour decided by something like that.
Uran though - beast!
I guess Nibali was the guy draped in the tricolore wearing the shark mask? 😉
“I didn’t have any brakes going into the next corner [because of the wheel change] so I crashed again,” he continued. “I just went straight on into the wall as I literally just didn’t have any brakes.
I'm amazed that the teams didn't look at the weather forecast and go "you know what, it's going to be shit weather so we'll get the disc-braked bikes out, run with tubeless tyres as wide and low as we dare".
Of all the "marginal gains" to be had, that one seems a fairly basic maximal one.
I'm amazed that the teams didn't look at the weather forecast and go "you know what, it's going to be shit weather so we'll get the disc-braked bikes out, run with tubeless tyres as wide and low as we dare".
... but then when Martin broke his front wheel in the crash would he even have been able to get a spare from the Neutral Service moto? And with about 90% of riding time being on the flats and climbs, who'd want to run fat low pressure tyres?
Would be interesting tactically if it was clearly stated at the start of a race that mechanicals = tough shit, crack on - would people still go wireless, tubular tyres, superlight frames etc. ? I'm assuming most would as they wouldn't make it to their bikes if the benefits didn't significantly outweigh the chane of failure.
This is still a consideration though. Froome was a bit lucky TBH as to when it happened, as if there was a GC threat up the road then they'd have cracked on at pace. I don't think anything they ride is particularly fragile, it's all off the shelf stuff, UCI approved, CEN tested etc. As an example, until quite recently most still rode on aluminium bars over carbon.
People were throwing thier bottles away within ten minutes of the start in preparation for the days climbing,I guess most wouldn't want the additional half a kilo weight penalty of discs with that much climbing, like you say marginal gains
I guess most wouldn't want the additional half a kilo weight penalty of discs with that much climbing
It's a soaking wet day in the Jura mountains. I'd take the very small weight penalty (it's nowhere near half a kilo on most modern bikes) for the extra security of, oh I don't know, NOT crashing into a rock face and writing off the entire rest of my season...
I'm amazed that the teams didn't look at the weather forecast and go "you know what, it's going to be shit weather so we'll get the disc-braked bikes out, run with tubeless tyres as wide and low as we dare".Of all the "marginal gains" to be had, that one seems a fairly basic maximal one.
Because the stage had about a million meters of climbing, and no-one wants to drag discs and fat tyres up the climbs. Even Kittel wasn't riding his MAMIL-mobile.
Edit: Stupid work distracting me - other people got in first
Since when have discs made it less easy to lock a rear wheel?
I'd take the very small weight penalty (it's nowhere near half a kilo on most modern bikes) for the extra security of, oh I don't know, NOT crashing into a rock face and writing off the entire rest of my season
But it wasn't a braking problem as such that caused the crash, it was a rider judgement/ability problem. The rest of the group went round the corner at the same speed using the same or similar brakes.
It's a soaking wet day in the Jura mountains. I'd take the very small weight penalty (it's nowhere near half a kilo on most modern bikes) for the extra security of, oh I don't know, NOT crashing into a rock face and writing off the entire rest of my season
I don't disagree with you but the peleton appears to, one of the biggest barriers to disc break adoption in pro racing has been lack of interest from riders.it's been manufacturer driven, not rider driven.
I don't disagree with you but the peleton appears to, one of the biggest barriers to disc break adoption in pro racing has been lack of interest from riders.
May be a body weight thing? Or maybe having good calipers/pads?
Having tried road hydro's for the first time at the weekend, having previously only used cable discs, I still prefer my normal ultegra rim brakes in anything other than full on soaking wet conditions.
Sure the hydro's are more powerful, but I can lock the wheels with the rim brakes, and I find it easier to judge on the rim brakes as you really have to pull hard on the lever to do so.
BUT, this is coming from a <60kg rider, maybe the average 85kg MAMIL can make use of the extra braking force?
Because the stage had about a million meters of climbing, and no-one wants to drag discs and fat tyres up the climbs
Is it not the case that a lot of pro bikes are carrying lead weights to comply with minimum bike weight rules anyway? If that is correct then disks wouldn't carry extra weight, just replacing some of the ballast (I know there are issues about rotating weight blah blah blah)
I though that was at least half the point?Since when have discs made it less easy to lock a rear wheel?
Or he was running wider rims than the neutral wheels? IIRC the neutral bikes are old (borderline retro) Cannondales, so it wouldn't surprise me if the wheels were equally unfashionable. For the neutral service sponsor/provider, it's more about advertising than altruism.sounds like the mechanic didn't flip the quick release back after the change.
Is it not the case that a lot of pro bikes are carrying lead weights to comply with minimum bike weight rules anyway? If that is correct then disks wouldn't carry extra weight, just replacing some of the ballast (I know there are issues about rotating weight blah blah blah)
No they banned that. They do still run cheap cassettes, lower spec frames etc to meet the limit though so the main tenant of the argument is still valid. But that just means they have the option of disk brakes, but still chose not to use them, i.e. it's not a weight issue.
Or he was running wider rims than the neutral wheels? IIRC the neutral bikes are old (borderline retro) Cannondales, so it wouldn't surprise me if the wheels were equally unfashionable. For the neutral service sponsor/provider, it's more about advertising than altruism.
They used to be but they all got an update after the Froome incident last year. They're Canyon's this year with the newer and wider Mavic wheels.
IIRC the neutral bikes are old (borderline retro) Cannondales, so it wouldn't surprise me if the wheels were equally unfashionable.
Neutral service bikes are Canyons
http://www.cyclingweekly.com/news/racing/tour-de-france/mavic-neutral-service-bikes-get-dropper-seatposts-2017-339419
Not sure about the wheels but I'd be surprised if they're "old"
Most are already running Di2 which is enough heavier than a standard groupset to negate the need for the lead weights iirc.
Maybe discs shouldn't be the only thing the peloton takes from MTB?
Perhaps Geraint could get a personal sponsorship deal with Troy Lee to wear their body armour and a full-face helmet?
And we're all missing the Dropper Posts too !!
So Discs and Droppers, what a crock of poo.
When Warren Barguil road down past Porte's accident spot it stood out to me that something could go horribly wrong right there. Slight curve on a straight, a drop off the tarmac, unsighted in a bunch. Sadly it did catch someone out.
it stood out to me that something could go horribly wrong right there. Slight curve on a straight, a drop off the tarmac, unsighted in a bunch.
Something could go horribly wrong any where. When I saw it I though it looked an amazing fun road to ride down, one of those get it right and it feels fantastic, get it wrong and it hurts a lot.
He gambled and got it wrong simple as.
Glad the injuries are not as serious as first portrayed though.
Porte crash and nobody wants to neutralise to allow him to rejoin and with some cooperation Uran could have tried for a bike swap from a team car but the front group were never goign to let that happen
Agree with this, why should the race favour the yellow jersey and not anyone else in the race?
Porte crash and nobody wants to neutralise to allow him to rejoin
Should they stand by the side of the road and wait 6 weeks for Porte to recover?
The difference is no one attacked Uran when he had a mechanical. Uran continued, no doubt having to work a bit harder but he won the stage.
Aru's move was completely different
Followed the end on cycling news live feed waiting to take off. Have since seen highlights.
Aru - Total dick move from my point of view. Never been a massive fan of his. Even less so.
Martin sounds angry, and perhaps rightly so. However, should a race just be about climbing? Remember the Schleck whining about that? No, surely descending is a part of the skill set that makes the best cyclist, and we want the best riders to win, don't we? Harsh on Richie and G, yes, but that's racing.
Martin sounds angry, and perhaps rightly so.
To be fair, straight off his bike on a day like that is maybe not the best time to put that question to him, I reckon after some chilling time, he'd reflect differently.
How exactly could they neutralise after Portes crash anyway? They were going at 70kmh down a hill, they'd have seen something in their peripheral vision or heard something, but then what, slam on brakes and risk more crashes while not really knowing what was happening?
I do wonder about G, his crash rating seems exccedingly high and it can't all just be bad luck
scandal42 - Member
You can't attack the yellow jersey when he's got a machanical but the yellow jersey can get everyone else to do the work for him when closing someone down who makes a legitimate breakaway.
I love Froome but for **** sake it gets tedious when all the GC guys work to reign in Bardet at the request of Froome whilst he sits at the back and takes the ride.
Bullshit.
A good stage for the extreme spectacular but it's highlighted some cracks.
This. And Boardman was pretty vocal in the highlights in questioning the tactics of the other riders at the front, in doing the work for Froome just because he asked them, rather than just sitting behind him letting him do the work.
Obviously Sky's dominance has somewhat changed the tactics of the Tour, but it does sometimes seem like there's less nous (cynicism?) on display than in previous tours, in terms of timing attacks to stretch Sky, Fulgsang and Aru working together etc.
They were working to preserve their own positions as their interests aligned with Froome's, surely?
Was that in chasing down Bardet? That was in everyone's interest, not just Froome. I suspect Aru (and Astana) were more worried about losing time to Bardet than Froome. Uran too for that matter.
...would Aru have also been trying to undo some of the damage his unwise attack caused?
...would Aru have also been trying to undo some of the damage his unwise attack caused?
No, when you are morally corrupt enough to think that attack was acceptable in the first place, you really don't give F* what anyone else thinks.
Quite right, an attack is an attack. Froomy whining about front mech issues, horsecrap he wanted a bottle and that's all. Quite right Aru attacked, long may that continue. Too much control, too much SKY cloak influence and bullying. I'm hoping the racings all on from now on that SKY are thinned out, if it was me I'd ban power meters and two way race radios too.
Bikebouy - are you saying there was nothing wrong with Froome's bike and he faked it?