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If you can afford it then why not get one. I'd not want to sell all my bikes to get one but having an eeb to add to my other bikes would only be better IMO.
🤷♂️
If you want one just buy one but don't refer to bikes as analog. They are bikes. Grrr
OP
If you decide to get one, get it from a local shop. Just for support if anything goes wrong.
Also if you’re pretty fit consider one of the smaller motor, lighter ebikes.
Ills echo the local shop. Friend got a "fatal" error. Took it to shop plugged cable back in, reset error code. Good to go in an hour or so.
As others have probably said, the only reason to hold off would be in the hope that reliability might improve - and perhaps the tech give a bit more refined experience.
They do seem to be getting more refined, from reading reviews, but not sure if they are getting more reliable or not? It's all anecdotal innit?
Noticed some Orbeas are now moving to batteries in the frame rather that a battery door. That's always been a positive with the Whytes IMO, all the electrics seem a bit more resilient tucked away inside the frame. As long as you don't mind charging them with the battery installed.
singlespeedstu
Nice bit of doom mongering there.
Oh there’s no dought there’s failures but if you buy from the right place that know how to support their products it’s not as much of a problem as some doom mongers try and make out it is.
There are literally hundreds of people on forums who don't have the same experience and wait months because there is no motor to replace it with unless they take it off a for sale bike.
I see it as a realistic chance I'll be without the eBike for part of its warranty period and I'd rather be prepared for that by for example not selling my real bikes so I can keep riding.
People keep spreading this and to all intents and purposes its untrue** (at least you say I believe) BUT this is the primary factor for buying an eMTB or not.
Consider it a lease for the time of the motor warranty and after that it’s a disposable item.
Even during warranty it may well only work for maybe 75% of the time as the for rest its being repaired under warranty
**Yes Bosch/Brose can completely rebuild a motor but noone else can because they refuse to sell the parts needed so for practical purposes they are not serviceable or maintainable.
You also can’t buy A (1x) new motor (I’m told the MOQ for Bosch is 1000) so whilst theoretically someone could buy £1000 motors and then sell on (assuming Bosch allows this and honours warranty) that’s a huge investment when they can just change the motor and someone is left with hundreds of old ones to sell as NOS.
Anyway, first question really should be IF you can afford the TCO and potential lack of bike whilst its being repaired under warranty and expectations about what happens once its outside of warranty.
If this is a deal breaker then I’d say stand back for now and wait until the market matures.
This level of misinformation is remarkable 🤦♂️
cha****ng
They do seem to be getting more refined, from reading reviews, but not sure if they are getting more reliable or not? It’s all anecdotal innit?
Not really because fundamentally they are just designed to last the warranty period.
I guess more might actually be making the warranty but they aren't designed to be maintainable
YT came up with a video the other day which is a nice analogy... it was about "What you need to do to a Subaru WRX to make it into a proper Rally Car" (or similar) and opinions were those of the Rally Driving School who did the conversions for their own cars.
Apparently stock suspension would last between 1 day and a month at best on a stock one used in their school... so other than stuff like protective plates this is the major thing needs to be changed for one that is maintainable...
According to the school (sic) "we have never had to replace a complete maintainable shock... HOWEVER there probably isn't a single shock that hasn't been completely rebuilt".
It looks to me like the marketing of eMTB is for non maintainable units... which to me seems as realistic as non-maintainable MTB suspension.
This is exasperated by the denial of warranty if you do try and maintain it... and refusal to sell critical parts such as electronics
I reckon whoever breaks and comes up with a maintainable motor in the same way as MTB suspension is on to a winner.
HobNob
This level of misinformation is remarkable
Yes people keep deliberately spreading the lies that eMTB motors are reliable or you can just buy a new one.
I guess that's because they are paid liars...
I'm neither a liar or being paid to say anything.
I'll leave you to it though after reading some of your other posts...
Yes people keep deliberately spreading the lies that eMTB motors are reliable or you can just buy a new one.
I guess that’s because they are paid liars…
Of course it depends on what your definition of ‘reliable’ is, but I can only use my own sample of 3 Bosch CX4 based bikes with a collective 10,000km on, they are all still working & haven’t failed.
Also, for what it’s worth, I can go to a Bosch dealer & if one has failed, I can buy a replacement motor, as an end user. I, nor the shop do no need to buy 1000 motors to make this happen.
This is also the same for a friend with a Specialized, as he has recently done this, on a 3 year old bike that’s out of warranty.
I’m not suggesting e-bikes are the pinnacle of reliability, but I am clarifying that you can buy replacement motors for them if needed*, and they can also be worked on & repaired, by plenty of third party businesses.
*I will happily exclude Shimano from that, but then I would never buy a Shimano powered ebike.
To clarify, I also don’t get paid for this…
Noticed some Orbeas are now moving to batteries in the frame rather that a battery door. That’s always been a positive with the Whytes IMO, all the electrics seem a bit more resilient tucked away inside the frame. As long as you don’t mind charging them with the battery installed.
To me, that's a huge negative.
I have the last orbea Wild fs with the removable battery. A lot of people can't store their bikes inside, so cold becomes an issue.
Plus, if you essentially use the bike like an uplift day, then you will most likely want more than one battery. I have two, the second of which is a bit smaller capacity.
Yeah you can use a range extender but it adds bulk and you don't get as much juice.
You can easily use up two batteries doing a full day at BPW or somewhere.
Seems like a backwards move to me.
Also, for what it’s worth, I can go to a Bosch dealer & if one has failed, I can buy a replacement motor, as an end user. I, nor the shop do no need to buy 1000 motors to make this happen.
Have you actually tried?
I tried a Trek dealer (as it was a Trek) and I got told Bosch wouldn't sell a new Gen 2 motor and they (Trek Bracknell) couldn't even order one as it wasn't in their (Trek) internal catalogue so they couldn't order it even if Bosch would sell it. I realise that's a Trek dealer not an actual Bosch dealer but I wouldn't even know where to find a "Bosch dealer" (assuming you mean somewhere sells Bosch from power tools/motors/etc?)
What I do see is many people reading posts etc. that say you can and repeating what they read that haven't actually tried but want it to be true.
The reason I trust the head mechanic at the Trek Bracknell is because he spent a lot of time trying to diagnose the fault .. he eventually gave in trying to diagnose it, didn't charge me a penny and was genuinely apologetic (just not quite enough for me to just order a new Trek)
To clarify, I also don’t get paid for this…
Unfortunately people rarely admit they have been paid to post certain things ... those things then spread and the person repeating them is just repeating them.
I, nor the shop do no need to buy 1000 motors to make this happen.
I'm not going to say who or do guessing as it may influence Bosch refusing to deal with them (but they are a member if infrequent poster I know IRL) that told me the MOQ for Bosch was 1000 units and I have no reason to doubt them and many reasons to believe them.
I’m not suggesting e-bikes are the pinnacle of reliability, but I am clarifying that you can buy replacement motors for them if needed*, and they can also be worked on & repaired, by plenty of third party businesses.
Please show me where I can buy a new main board for a Bosch.... (like I can buy parts for a fork)
I'm aware many companies do limited repairs and rebuilds (bearings etc.) but all the ones I've seen for Bosch (given that was my motor) state categorically you can't replace the main board once water damaged. I know you called out Shimano but as an example you can't buy the torque sensor (its not in the catalog)
As an example (not entirely random) compare that to a fork of a reasonable quality.
I can buy pretty much every part and assembly... from a bladder for a charger damper to new lowers or CSU
This is also the same for a friend with a Specialized, as he has recently done this, on a 3 year old bike that’s out of warranty.
I thought Spez/Brose had extended the warranty to 4 years now? A strong reason to buy one (Reason I think that is its something I casually check for the "next eMTB" when the current one dies)... but not having owned one I haven't tried to actually buy a new motor but google shopping doesn't show me anywhere to buy a new one.
I suspect it's actually Spez getting a new motor out of their quota rather than Brose and one of the way smaller brands using Brose wouldn't be able to do this??? (To be fair Spez warranty and support tends to be excellent if factored into the price)
To me, that’s a huge negative.
Yeah, I get the convenience of an easily removable battery. Mine lives in an unheated workshop and is charged there. I know people say this is a bad idea, but no problems yet.
Also if you’re pretty fit consider one of the smaller motor, lighter ebikes.
I'm near enough the same age as the OP, got a Kenevo SL just before Christmas - mainly for when out solo.
Still did over 5,000ft of climbing on my analogue bike last week with non-ebike pals and just been out on my gravel bike.
Best thing to do is demo/hire both full-fat and SL first, even though I spent a bit of cash, it was worth to not make a mistake and buy something that wouldn't suit me.
singlespeedstu
I’m neither a liar or being paid to say anything.
I wasn't talking about you. You didn't claim they were reliable
I was talking abut the SOURCE of this misinformation... which is either people paid by brands or people trying to sell a used eMTB out of warranty.
As per a recent thread Giant say one thing and do another... but there will be people still saying different because they are either paid by Giant or trying to sell one.
Yeah, I get the convenience of an easily removable battery. Mine lives in an unheated workshop and is charged there. I know people say this is a bad idea, but no problems yet.
Unless you have a 3RD party way to measure battery health you won't know.
It's like why for example an Apple phone with 90% battery health lasts <<50% of the time...
Every (reputable) Li ion manufacturer says it will...
but I wouldn’t even know where to find a “Bosch dealer” (assuming you mean somewhere sells Bosch from power tools/motors/etc?)
https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/dealer-search
heres how to find a bosch ebike dealer - give it a try and see if they can source you a new gen 2 motor , alternatively try calling bosch direct on the following phone number (about mid way down the page) and ask directly where you can get a new gen 2 motor from< they'll tell you whether its been discontinued or not (I wouldnt be going on the say so of a mechanic in a single trek dealer). I have no idea about the gen 2 motor, I'd be surprised if they werent able to get you a new one - eventually everything goes out of support, but the gen 2 is not that old.
https://www.bosch-ebike.com/en/service/contact
You can definitely get new gen 4 motors outside of warranty, you just have to visit a bosch dealer and pay.
julians
I already tried one (Trek Bracknell) .. I got told a categorical no.
I already tried one (Trek Bracknell) .. I got told a categorical no.
speak to the organ grinder (bosch), not the monkey (trek bracknell) - wouldnt be the first time a bike dealer talks nonsense.
julians
You are being very helpful and I feel I owe you a deeper explanation.
speak to the organ grinder (bosch), not the monkey (trek bracknell) – wouldnt be the first time a bike dealer talks nonsense.
First thing is the Bosch link takes you in circles (tried it at the time)... combined with I'd (very strongly) rather speak to an engineer or mechanic not someone in sales, marketing or customer services (level of BS) and the end of that circle is "here are a list/map of dealers". I mean they can say what they want "you can buy one at any Bosch dealer" but that's just what they say because its a corporate line.
The Trek head mechanic seemed very up front and apologetic. He spent over an hour trying to diagnose the fault and didn't charge me a penny and apologised about not being able to order a new motor.
I'd also had to buy a new battery (my fault) and had to wait months to even be allowed to buy one from a Bosch dealer and been on waiting lists so I did contact the other dealers as well. (Ultimately I'd given up and bought a grey import with no warranty)
The reason I went to Trek is previously I had to buy a Trek specific chainguard that had broken and I also wanted to change the chainring for a bigger one. Same thing on that occasion he actually researched the largest I could use with the chain guard (from Trek catalog) and ordered chainring for me from Bosch catalog both had to come from Germany - he warned me it would take 1-2 weeks and he called me when they arrived so I had a high level of trust...
That's the back story ... as to why I was happy with/trusted the wrench monkey ...
So middle story .. My mate is a electronics engineer (he actually does component level repairs to MRI's and shit) so as it was out of warranty and I'm told by someone I trust I can't buy another we took it apart and found and repaired the fault. In this case it actually turned out to be a fairly simple and obvious fix (crappy spot weld on power good signal) but the monkey level Bosch software couldn't diagnose it.. [which is weird as I just posted it to someone else on a FB group that had the exact same responses on the display so how Bosch dealer SW don't know seems puzzling]
In between I researched replacement parts and all said the same , if its the main board then Bosch do not sell them... I was still interested in buying a replacement motor but the only ones I could find were without warranty.
So sad end story is it got nicked before XMAS...