[Closed] To E or not to E

I think there’s a C./ option also, OwenP.

Those who, due to health/age issues that will not improve, no longer have the option of: loving the climbs; getting satisfaction from the sense of achievement etc, but still want to keep riding.
I fall squarely into that category, and am hoping that going E helps me still achieve something and get some satisfaction.

I'm 67 and not as fit as i was...

The guys I ride with are all at the same-ish standard. A weekly road ride is usually about 3 hours at 15mph. A mountain bike ride is usually 3 hours on Cannock Chase off piste, pretty hard riding up and down. We end up knackered and happy.

If one of us got an e-bike, then I guess we'd all have to get one but we really enjoy the hard work and it's the reason we ride.

If we did an all-dayer in the Peak or Lakes or Wales then I'm at the stage when the last half would be a grind. But I could do a lot of daily rentals to match the price of the sort of bike I'd want to buy.

Those who, due to health/age issues that will not improve, no longer have the option of: loving the climbs

Absolutely and that's why I'm glad the option exists. I've no desire for one yet, but if I ever get to the point where it is that or not riding I'll be very glad it's there and grateful to all the folk who bought them and helped to develop the technology.

Fortunately that day still seems a way off and my response to losing fitness is tending more towards using a lighter and stiffer bike and opting for the smoother descents (which I enjoy more if I'm honest). I can see that would be a crap choice if you were all about the gnar though.

In response to the "all-dayer" comment above, it's undoubtedly true that I don't cover as much ground on an all day ride as I used to, but I'm not convinced it makes any difference to my enjoyment really. If I'm out in the mountains all day that's a great day.

I’m normally on 3 all dayers a week, and I aim to start riding the E-Bike on one of those at first.
Also we normally head over for 3 day trips to the mainland once or twice a year, and day 3 has destroyed me on the last 2/3 trips. E-bike 2 out of 3 and I’m hoping I’ll be better able to cope.
There’s also the, keeping up with the pack scenario, which hasn’t been happening for some time.
Great thread OP btw. It shows the subject up to be the emotive “can of worms” that we all know it is.

Roverpig, on the covering the ground aspect, for me it does make quite a big difference. Means I can get between the fun bits (climbs and descents) much faster. A lot of that is due to low base fitness (which is higher than before ebike mind!)

For me, ebike was a godsend, helped me to get back into riding and reminded me why I need to be out on the bike more often. Have other bikes, rarely ridden which I do need to change in order to improve fitness. I am definitely lazy and having the ebike removes a mental barrier, need to work on this for the other bikes too.

I am more than 2 years in on my Levo, have done a battery (not really necessary, just a LED out) and motor in that time. If using the spesh subsidised replacement scheme, cost for motor would be about £100 per 1000km so it's not horrendous - but noticeably more than breaking any other mtb part bar frame/forks.

I genuinely don't understand comments about the handling being the same as other bikes. It handles like a 50lb bike! So it's a ****ing lump to move around, but clearly pretty stable on the descents. I have a badly gipped wrist, and have found a proper MX style support to be very helpful in dealing with the extra weight. Riding my sub 20lb SS is obviously a totally different experience.

I had one and sold it, for me they are slower downhill on the trails I ride. Another factor was reliability, on my normal bike I can fix everything on an ebike I have to take it to a shop with all the hassle that entails. They all break by the way, our weather isn't the kindest to electronics. I made a mistake getting one in the first place I think, I see the attraction for others though but for me its all about the downs and as I said they just aren't as fast downhill as a decent enduro bike.

Hmmm. Thanks for all the comments. Food for thought. I've got two damaged wrists and sometimes wear those MX style supports.

@RichPenny That's a fair point and just shows that we are all different, which I guess is kind of the point. If I'm out for a day in the hills there aren't really any boring bits as it's mostly just about being out there. Spinning along a flat section can sometimes be the highlight of the day. One place I would appreciate one though is battling into a headwind as that's never fun. But I dare say there are some masochists out there who enjoy that bit too.

I got mine aged 58 (now 61)and I love it. (Map based xc only rider - basically a bike rambler)
Cons
- weight, pita at stiles etc but I use new lifting techniques and it gets over everything
Pros
- No more hill/ distance anxiety of blowing up miles from home
- much bigger set of local trails And don’t care how hilly a new route is
- I’m cycling more often
- you can cycle with the motor off, on the flatter stuff I’m doing 30 or so miles on <20% of battery (off and nearly all eco with eco set low)
- motor is like a get out of jail - bad legs/headwind/massive hill when knackered - no problem

Cycling for me is about enjoyment/seeing the countryside rather than a physical exhaustion test,the ebike lets me do more of what I enjoy, from an aging perspective it really feels like a winner to me, I gave up footie as too slow and hamstring went twice(now on walking football) hockey ditto, floorball ditto, Still do tennis but the youngsters are so much quicker and longer lasting but at cycling I’m actually able to exceed what I could do 30 or so years ago when I started xc mtbing. I’ve literally just cracked and Bought my second one, got a levo (4yr motor warranty And last year model price being the drivers<stealth ad>Scott espark 710 for sale<end> There are now a few specialist engine rebuilders appearing and I’m hoping that thIs will enable older motors to have a longer life.

Some bloke in the local woods on the pros and cons of e-bikes

Sum up is at 12.50...

I really don't get all the fuss made over bottoming-out suspension, increased momentum and needing huge brakes on an e-bike though; they're just over a stone heavier than a non-ebike ffs! As if a bike can't cope with the difference between a 12st6 rider and a 14st rider.. 🤦‍♂️

Exactly. My wife on my ebike would still weigh less than I do.

Cycling for me is about enjoyment/seeing the countryside rather than a physical exhaustion test,the ebike lets me do more of what I enjoy, from an aging perspective it really feels like a winner to me,

Great comment towzer, same for me but I have only just turned fifty, although as you can probably tell from the moniker I have never been truly fit!
If I could justify another big outlay then I would buy a lighter less powerful E such as the SL or Zesty but overall I'm happy with my 'old' Merida 120e as it does everything I need of it & I can still lift it, I never notice the 20kg weight on the trail but I'm sure I would prefer a lighter one.
Cheers.

@Roverpig, some good points above and I agree with most to an extent.

I think maybe you are trying to compare it a bit too directly to normal riding though. IMO it isn't really totally directly comparable. It is different. I think that's a good thing as you can enjoy both as the mood takes you.

Others talk about it allowing them to “get more riding in” but I assume they are just the same a the first group. Obviously an ebike doesn’t stretch time and going further in the same time isn’t really any more enjoyable on its own (if it were we’d just ride motorbikes). So I guess what those people like is that they get more descents in the same time. But that’s just a guess.

Yeah I am one of the people who said that. I think there are a few different ways to measure 'more riding'. One is time, one is distance, one is amount of descending, and one is potential number of routes available (might be others too) Ebike won't improve on the first measurement but can deffo help with the other ones.

Personally I’m one of those people who enjoys the climb every bit as much as the descent and often judge a ride by what I managed to get up rather than what I got down. After the initial thrill of cruising up a climb that used to kill me I found that it had basically taken away my sense of achievement, which I now realise is a big part of the enjoyment, for me.

I agree with this however it does open up different challenges - like what's the most ridiculous thing I can ride up -usually something only previously considered as a descent

I also really like being out in the peace and quiet of nature on my own and the whine from the motor drove me nuts.

Agree it can get annoying. Also removes the feeling of being out there under your own power (which I like the feeling of)

towzer
– weight, pita at stiles etc but I use new lifting techniques and it gets over everything

Tell us more, I find this the most awkward aspect of owning one

I stick the seat in my gut, lean over and lift it sideways and rest it on the gate. Then push up and let the pedal take all the weight before dropping down. That way I find it easier than dead lifting.

Levo SL doesn’t weigh much more than a regular bike so a good option if lots of lifting over stuff required.

Re lifting, orange 5 - either lift or for tight kissing gates/shonky stiles balance side on on helmet/hold one hand, with one hand free to hold on/do latches/pull gates.

Ebike, Modern huge frame tubes mean less good holding points for my small hands so I now am using forks and rear susp parts of frame as I can actually grip them. I don’t so much lift but try To go from weight supported position to weight supported position. It’s very obstacle specific but for stiles/fences etc i can usually go front wheel balanced on object, engine case balanced on object, front wheel down other side(keep it straight and it takes the weight) and if can balance rear wheel on object With front down that helps, at each balance point I’ll have a hand free and will move feet to best position for next lift, trying to get to other side when balanced on engine. (Sorry if this is gobbledygook)

Tight kissing gates are still barsteward as if you can’t back wheel it thru and can’t lift over a fence nearby it’s using your foot/back/random object to hold the gate And stop it relatching whilst you overhead lift on both hands.......

I get the idea Towzer, interesting, I'm strong enough to dead lift mine but am curious about how other ppl get on. The FF Levo rear suspension doesn't seem to allow me to rotate and support the rear end with my inner fore arm comfortably, unlike my old vitus. I've seen video where people support them on there back, but can't see an obvious way to get it up there easily (without help), just one aspect some people may not consider when buying one (assuming you need to deal with styles/gates/etc). Though group rides (well mine at least) does bring out the Dunkirk spirit where everyone pitches in and helps.

All them years of going to the gym must have worked wonders for me. 😄

Of the times I have to lift the Turbo Levo I use the lower leg with one hand and the top of the seat tube with the other and just lift it, Its just like lifting my old Stinky of 15 years ago 😉

Had mine for 3 years and although bought on impulse got no regrets

for what it's worth, my 2p after 3 months of owning a trek rail. for context 47 years old, 16st, decidedly average fitness, normally would get one 2.5-4 hour ride a week on the non e-bike, ridden normal mtbs for 30 years and local riding in dark peak and my routes tend to be which & plummet affairs:

- you do notice the extra weight particularly on twisty techy stuff. you are definitely working your upper body harder manoeuvring the bike around and you have to use exaggerated body language for jumps & drops etc
- the extra weight and mainly low down makes the bikes incredibly stable, brilliant for tanking through stuff
- you still get a good work out on your rides. you're not red lining or getting into anaerobic fitness as you would on your normal bike, but your still working and at a more constant output. i reckon anecdotally i'm working 75-80% of what i normally would
- i wouldn't look at a battery smaller than 625 watt hours - a smaller lighter rider could get away with it i'm sure, but for me and my riding 625 means i can happily do 25 mile rides
- they will break so think very carefully about warranty offered, after sales services and service centre network. brose motors are sealed units so if a bearing goes it's toast, bosch are the most serviceable i believe and you can get rebuild kits, not sure on shimano. equally bosch used to have a 2 years rolling warranty (not sure if still case) and have plenty of UK service centres. also think carefully about where you buy it from, a LBS to deal with the inevitable warranty claim is a god send compared to direct sales
- you need to adapt your breaking style and break a lot earlier, and if a heavier rider who likes to ride fast, fit the most powerful breaks & biggest rotors you can. i've been caught out a few times!
- you will still ride your normal bike. the first 20 mins of the first ride back on a normal bike after ebikes rides for a while it will feel like you breaks are locked on or something is very wrong, but you quickly adapt and then your normal bike feels amazingly light and nimble, until you hit the first big climb!
- e-bikes are amazing if you are time short (the reason i bought one). in 90 min after work i can get a decent ride in. on the normal bike i would spent a good chunk of that climbing or getting to the good stuff
- ebikes also open up a lot of routes on your local riding you wouldn't normally do - tracks that are normally a pain on normal bike, descents as climbs etc and allows you to put new lops together. who of thought potato alley was so much fun as a climb!
- totally subjective, but i think e-bikes give you more "fun" per ride than normal bike

so fare very pleased with mine, would heartily recomend them and complements my normal mtb riding well.

oh and balls to the stigma thing

I don't think there is a stigma anymore really. I got my ebike almost 4 years ago, it was rare I'd see another ebike and I would get comments from some people when they saw my bike. I rarely ride mine anymore but never get comments when I do, I also see a lot more ebikes these days.

My ebike was almost all I rode for over 3 years, it made it possible for me to do long rides and to ride with other people - that wouldn't have been possible otherwise. The biggest ride I've done on mine was 75km with ~1700m climbing and I still had some battery left at the end. The downsides for me are reliability (I've been through several batteries and motors) and weight. I'm not a big guy and I do notice it's a heavier bike, especially when it comes to throwing it over fences, stiles etc...

I've kept the ebike, at some point I'll need it again. I think for me I enjoy the challenge of riding my (normal) hardtail and feeling like I'm beating my MS for a change, which is something I don't get on the ebike as much - I can't really ride it up super steep stuff because my balance will lead to me just falling off.

Seeing as we appear to have a load of E-Bikers together on this thread, I’m going to be cheeky again and go slightly OT again. Still helpful E stuff hopefully.

I’ve got a mate whose bought a Cannondale Moterra, and loves the bike apart from the steep, in today’s terms, head angle. Is fitting an angle headset, Cane Creek etc, feasible for such heavy beasts?

I’ve got a mate whose bought a Cannondale Moterra, and loves the bike apart from the steep, in today’s terms, head angle. Is fitting an angle headset, Cane Creek etc, feasible for such heavy beasts?

Dont see why not, if there's an angleset available that will fit the frame.

brose motors are sealed units so if a bearing goes it’s toast

Is fitting an angle headset, Cane Creek etc, feasible for such heavy beasts?

Ive come to think that if you consider them just a normal bike with motor to make things easier, you are missing the point. For me my e-bike is sort of middle ground between my motorbikes and my mtb, it has some of the qualities / enjoyment of each. But for me its certainly allowed me to do rides I would never do on a normal MTB, you can descend for miles and miles with no fear about the climb back up, choose routes to gain as much altitude as quickly as possible, and also explore without fear of bonking far from home and lost!

My orbea wild fs arrived yesterday, so far all I've done is go for a few spins round the local park to get a feel for it, but its a lot of fun. Proper ride out tomorrow.

The extra oomph is addictive. The bike itself feels mega heavy when you're lifting it around the garage, but once you're out riding it feels fine, I can bunny hop and lift the front as well as I could on my normal bike and it doesnt seem to take much extra effort, but the bike does feel more 'stuck to the ground' that my normal bike, as others have mentioned the bigger difference between the sprung and unsprung weight allows the suspension to work exceptionally well.

This has the bosch gen 4 motor, and there's remarkably little pedalling resistance once the motor cuts out.

Quick update - just ordered an Orbea Wild FS. The Speed Twin will have to wait. I've really struggled to find one in stock anywhere. Next year's models are significantly more expensive it seems.

Went out for my first proper ride on my new orbea wild fs today, its ace, can't believe how much fun it is.

Did 19 miles and 3200 feet of climbing on 62% battery. It makes the uphill nearly as much fun as the downs.

The bike itself goes downhill well, a bit less agile than my capra but not much,I can bunny hop and pop the front up pretty much the same as on the capra. the suspension works brilliantly.

We flew up a 1000 foot climb at a quick enough rate to make me ears pop twice on the way up.

All in all I'm very pleased with it.

We visited Coed-y Brenin a few weeks ago for the first time in 3 years and really enjoyed it (did the full beast route).

So me and the missus decided to go back today, but rent a Levo SL eaach. They'd already given the XL out, so had to make do with a Large. It was ok, but it did feel a little small.

Few things I noticed.
1. We did the same loop and knocked nearly an hour off the total time, then decided to have a play on the skills loop. 25 miles and 3700ft of ascent and still had 3 bars of the battery left.

2. Compared to a full on ebike, it felt compromised. 16 stone rider + 150mm Fox 34 + short bike = front wheel tuck city!

3. Due to the extra speed, I felt I was putting just as much effort it and felt suitably knackered at the end.

In conclusion, I did enjoy it but I wouldn't want to buy one. It felt mega agile and changed direction instantly. I think I'll try a Trek Rail though eventually, just to compare it to my Slash.

I was actually worried that I'd come away really wanting one. Glad that's not the case as I don't have a spare 5k 😂

I think I’ll try a Trek Rail though eventually, just to compare it to my Slash.

I’ve recently bought a 9.9
It’s really good, a lot more focused and lighter than my old Powerfly LT.

Mine’s a 9.8 in the finest metallic purple.

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Any ideas for trimmings guys?

Stem cap, bar ends, seat clamp etc

Hope Red???

I must admit, the colours that the Rail is available in are really stunning!

Years to come, I reckon I'll end up getting one to compliment a light trail/xc bike. At the moment though I just can't justify it. When we eventually move house, they will make more sense for me when I can get out after work and actually ride up some decent elevation locally.

It's way too flat around here to bother with one for me and I like my regular bike for my weekend riding at the moment.

To the OP.
At the end of the day it's a personal decision. I hope you really enjoy it and lets be honest, that's the most important bit!

Loving mine

I'm just starting to consider one. I'm 73 and have been exclusively a roadie up until about a year ago when I resurrected a 90's Scott Sawtooth. As I enjoyed it so much I got myself a Bossnut.

Nowadays I'm mainly riding off road and I'm still improving and getting faster but on road I can see a definite decline in speed and power. For the road I'm starting to think about an "E"  but not so sure about off road.

Whilst I can continue reasonably without an "E" I'll probably continue but...the day may not be so far away.

As I said just up there I cant believe how much fun ebikes are, they just open up a whole new way of mountain biking for me, turns every ride into an uplifted ride, and makes technical uphills nearly as much fun as a downhill. Total gamechanger.

Dont know why I didnt get one ages ago

Another update, I tried 3 times to order an Orbea Wild FS, before I went on holiday just over 2 weeks ago, from Sprockets Cycles (only one i could find). However in spite of several promises to ring me back to complete the order, they never did. They obviously don't want my money. I'm now thinking about waiting for a 2021 Focus Jam2 6.9. So, back to square one, basically!

Yeah everywhere is short of stock right now. I think you'll be into ordering the 2021 orbeas , but I think the earliest delivery time is october, going out to jan 2021 depending on which model you want.

Its why I jumped on a 2020 wild fs with a discount a few weeks ago as otherwise it looked like I'd be waiting months to get something.

For what its worth , I know that www.bikester.co.uk have some stock of wild fs at a discount, but its only the small/medium sizes, they have no large or extra large.

No don’t do it.
Not really got any strong views on it but my god these numerous threads make me this we need the mods to close them like they would with any other duplicate.

The only downside I can see against E bikes is you can't fly with the batteries.