[Closed] To E or not to E

I rarely struggle with or have to walk up climbs that aren’t so steep that everyone pushes up them, I’m 42, fit and healthy and love my Levo. I have a hardtail too which is equally fun and nicely different yet oddly similar (after a fair bit of geometric tweakery). Reliability has been fine thus far. When riding it the weight is mostly a positive. It takes strength to manhandle quickly through the tight and twisty stuff but it’ll make you stronger.

If you prefer Type 1 fun £5k gets a lot of MX bike
If you prefer Type 2 fun your Intense will always be more challenging

Yes.
No.
You're lazy.
They're the awsumz
You can't jump on them.
They've made me ride more.
Like a cross between a mountainbike and an MX bike.
Think that just about sums up the normal answers for you.

In short buy one if you have the cash and want it and don't worry about anyone elses opinion.

Go for it. Best thing I did, only problem is the rest of the club bought one and I'm back to being tail end Charlie again. You will ride your old bike but only when the leccy one breaks down which it will.

I’m with you...having a great week in the lakes, plenty of wainwright’s, a few laps of Whinlatter, then today, Mrs & Daughter hired ebikes... One quick 5min ride later then I’m thinking why wouldn’t I...? 180deg change in opinion.... if I can do 3 laps instead of 1 then why not? I reckon I’m in.

If you're still biking and active at 65 then you've bloody well earned it and to hell with anyone stigmatising or disapproving. Go enjoy it.

Having just got a YT Decoy, I'd say if you can afford it do it. I also considered both of those and it was pretty much a flip of a (3-sided?) coin.
Not having to carefully choose which trail to descend, you can ride back to the top again at 3-times the speed. If you fancy it you can cane it up the climb to get the HR up or even leave it in eco for a bit less of a sprint style workout. They handle differently, requiring a bit more muscling around.
I got it mostly because my mate got one and it was then waving right in front of me just how many more trails we could hit in the same time.
I'm 50 myself and even after ordering it I was worried I'd made the wrong decision. Not worried about that anymore.

Took the plunge last month. As an undertrained (ie fat) newish dad with limited time, it allows me to fit more riding in the limited time I have. Last summer it was hard to justify an hour or two drive only to ride for a couple of hours before being knackered. With the ebike I can ride for twice as long.

About your worries. They are heavy but you tend to not notice it
There is no stigma.
We spent 7 hours in Glentress on Sunday with a Turbo Levo and a Levo SL.
Most of that time mine was on loan to others we were riding with. They came away with big grins and were amazed at how they felt, I'll be suprized if they haven't got an order in already.
They haven't taken over from our normal bikes and no matter what anyone tells you they handle just as good both uphill and down.
If you haven't already tried on its worth while to make sure it does what you want it to

Oh, I dunno. You notice the weight when you're trying to put it in the back of a car or on a carrier. Ooof!

If it's between that or a motorbike, why do you even have to think about it?

Go for it, who gives a flying **** what the last of the summer winers on here think. **** this 'stigma' shit, they were with that like gears, discs, suspension, droppers.

Wallopers. 🤣

Yeah who gives a flip what anyone else thinks. I took the plunge on a trek rail last month - it's great. I bought it purely to get more trails in, in the limited time I have available, rather than for any fitness issue.

There have been many highlights but notable ones include:

Riding around the whole of whinlatter red and black in about an hour and then also fitting in grisedale pike and hobcarton end for a sub 2 hour ride.

In under 2 hours riding pretty much most of the way from Buttermere to the top of crag hill and then down Wandope, whiteless pike and back to Buttermere.

Locally, riding 57km of tech xc and then the biggest localish downhill runs that are usually at the very end of my range in about 2hr 45.

All the above would usually have taken a lot longer and there is no way I would have been able to fit them into the time available.

Last but not least, making a whole heap of difference to how I plan to ride local hilly ish but technical trails. It opens up a whole new world of ways to link things together when maintaining height is much less relevant.

Fantastic, el b, amazing riding round there. 👏

I’m almost 65, and have just given in for all the same reasons as the OP, and even though I’m one step ahead of you (bike ordered) I still struggle to get my head round it.
Sure it’ll be fine after a few rides, but it just seems wrong atm.
Keeping the option to non E open for now, but age/health issues will reduce their use, I feel, over time.

That is not to say there aren't downsides though. They are heavy. Being personally on the tall / moderately heavy side when riding I don't notice that so much, except for hopping it over stuff an on the very twistiest stuff it is definitely not as flickable. I think a normal bike still has a clear handling advantage for both these scenarios.
Also I don't think it gives you quite the same sense if achievement.

If I had the time available, I would have happily done most of the rides I mentioned above on a normal bike, and I probably would have enjoyed it overall just a little bit more (even the climbs). However, I would simply not have had the time to do so.

58 here, and recently came in to a bit of money, so I bought an e bike for the road (cube touring 500) only regret is that waited so long. I reckon an e mtb will be making its way to my house as soon as I've built the shed to put them in

Ps, I went out on my single speed today (first non ebike ride in 2 weeks - you understand new toy and all that) and it was still fantastic fun. I will deffo be keeping my other bikes. They will be ridden slightly less, but they still certainly have a place - ebike not appropriate for everything, and I do enjoy hurting myself on climbs still.
Another benefit I did not mention above is that you can go out on the ebike, come back feeling still pretty fresh, then smash yourself silly the next day on a normal bike.

it’ll make you stronger

Aye right!

“Aye right!”

I presume this is a sarcastic response. Many cyclists are pretty feeble in terms of full body strength, especially the pedalling obsessed roadie leaning variety. If you want to ride an ebike fast downhill then you will have to work harder to move it about - they’re heavy. This is good exercise, far better for you than just sitting and pedalling, especially if you’re over 60.

Aye right 😉

(Note smiley)

I’ve gone the other way. I’ve fallen out of love with them. They are heavy (appreciate they are getting lighter) You notice the difference, not so much when riding solely ebikes but if you alternate between them and normal bikes, they really do handle a fair bit worse on anything but fast, wide open motorway trails. Not bad, just nowhere as good. I guess the easy ups just clouded my judgement a bit previously. The whirring sound grates after a while too, almost taunting me. Then there’s the constant worry that the motor/battery will break. Wasn’t an issue for me the first 2500 miles, but I’ve had 2 motors and a battery die in the 1000 since then.

While there’s no(t as much) stigma, the ebike noobs don’t help themselves, either coming from regular bikes or new altogether. Been to a couple of trail centres recently and the rude XC whippets have been replaced by ebikers, barging past with nawt but a grunt to let you know you were in their way. Anecdotal I know, but there must’ve been double figures do it to my group at Cannock last weekend. I’m the only person in my riding group with one and the only reason I’m keeping it currently is to get back from injury, whilst keeping up on group rides.

With a bit of luck people will see them as a fad and come back to the light(er bikes) in a couple of years. It I doubt it.

Tom Howard, former ebike evangelist of the last 4 years.

related-ish question, since the usual suspects appear to be present:

How little do I need to spend to get a decent, preferably lightish, xc-ish, short-distance (max 20 miles & not very hilly) ebike ?

(asking for a friend wife)

How little do I need to spend to get a decent, preferably lightish, xc-ish, short-distance (max 20 miles & not very hilly) ebike ?

I'll ignore the lightish bit!

I'd say £2.7 to £3k. Decathlon Stilus (Bosch), Vitus E-Escarpe (Shimano).

If you want something under 20kgs then £5k+ for something like a Levo SL or Lapierre eZesty.

As soon as they stopped being e fat/plus bikes with XC geometry, I started to be interested in them.

Now I have one. I’m 25 years younger than you, fit & healthy - I just like to ride my bike & this means I get to do it more.

If you can afford a decent one, crack on I say.

Seeing as we appear to have a few STW E-xperts on here. OT, I know, but might be useful to the E-noobs and potential E-noobs:

I’ve also ordered the Trek Rail (el_boufador) The ease of battery removal was one of the reasons for choosing the Rail.
Having a set of pretty permanently spangled shoulders and neck, my reasoning was: when approaching a gate/fence (of which there are a good few on some of our rides) I could remove the battery and lift the, now 3-4 kg lighter, bike over.
Is this a viable option el_b or anyone?

I don’t see why not, just remember to carry your key.

great thread. I went e and have some views on it. For me, age 54. fairly fit, regular rider on road, gravel and MTBs, I was diagnosed with a heart issue which needs lifetime meds and the advice was to ride loads, keep fit, do long rides, but keep HR in tempo and avoid threshold efforts as much as possible.

After an initial encounter with an Orbea Wild FS and a horrible crash that set me back 8 months due to a shoulder reconstruction, I now have a Spesh Turbo Levo SL, and it is the absolutely perfect MTB for me. The smaller motor and battery makes it light; it feels like a regular bike to ride, and can be lifted over gates, onto racks etc no problem. Range without the extender is fine - around 3 hrs of hilly natural xc stuff empties it. Was up in Cairngorm the other week and rode it loads, superb fun ! Went round the full Burma road loop with scotroutes (he was on a non ebike) and whilst I fitted the range extender for that ride I didn't need it.

I am now however presented with a quandary.... I ride non e road and gravel bikes a lot and enjoy them, and am planning on upgrading my 5 yr old carbon Defy later this year, to the 21 Sram etap version. Keeping my HR in the right place is a lot easier on road and gravel as the sudden peaks are not there as they are on a MTB route, although I do tend to be the tail end charlie when riding with others. So, for a bit more that a 21 Defy, I could buy a Spesh Creo e road bike, with di2 Ultegra...... this has only come into my mind last few days having had a really tough 4 hr gravel ride with a couple of fitter mates on Sunday.. Very very tempted, though I realise it may also lead to me changing my gravel bikes at some stage too..

Option A being owning an Intense Primer and a Speed Twin
Option B being... who cares, can't improve on the above.

Just bought an orbea wild fs , but it hasnt arrived yet.

I'm not unfit, not really old (47),no injuries, so I've got no excuses that mean I *need* an ebike. I just wanted one to act as my own personal uplift vehicle. I'll be keeping my Yt capra for uplift days,trips to alps,spain,finale,madeira etc, rides where most others are on normal bikes, and rides where theres a lot of lifting over gates and stiles.

I imagine the capra will handle better downhill, but am expecting the ebike to be decent still - possible even better on certain types of terrain due to the weight of the bike.

I reckon if you derive your fun from the downhills,and can afford it, then why wouldnt you get one?

Will see how it goes once I have it........

I'm similar, iainc. Cardiovascular issues and on meds but been riding for years and been told to keep as fit as poss without going too mad. Rode a mates Kenevo a few times which got me interested. Had a few demos and settled on a Whyte. They've just updated their eMTBs, got an E-160 coming this month. Can't wait.

Thanks D .... I’ve suggested it to our crew, and been met with so many different views ie you’ll wreck the battery/motor etc etc

Couple of the guys I used to regularly ride with have got a bit older, one is definitely not as fit as he used to be, the other is ecurious, 4000ft of climbing in a day used to be no problem, now 2000ft he's ruined and its home time.
They both hired a pair of whytes in FOD the other week, 4500ft of off piste trails was no problem for him, enjoyed not being at the back and instead rinsing me on the climbs. He made the comment that part of the fun is riding with your mates, not hanging off the back struggling up the climbs.

Borrowed the less flat one of the two for a lap of Flatlands/Ski Run, climbing at 15mph was entertaining. The weight is very noticeable coming into corners, but over the rough stuff it settles the bike down. Wasn't sure on the tyre choice, I'd definitely want DH rubber front and back, the Whytes were 55lbs and you could hear the rims pinging off rocks and roots

Once they've come down in weight, sorted the geometry out and stepped up the reliability, then I'll consider one, but that won't be for a few years. The Levo SL is what I'd be looking at, but less xc geometry.

@pipiom, totally doable to remove the battery. Just takes a second. You need to faff with the key slightly but no biggie.

I have found the removable battery actually to be a lot bigger benefit than I thought. It wasn't a factor in my purchase but I've found it to be really useful (making bike lighter for transport, charging away from the bike when we were staying away)

Not surprisingly, people who have recently dropped ~£5K on one think they are great. It's interesting to see some of the longer term owners talking about the downsides and I guess we are approaching that part of the marketing cycle where the downsides will get more attention.

Only the OP can say whether it is for them, but since the thread is mainly positive, let me put a few counter arguments. Not that I've got anything against ebikes. They have their place and I'm not sure there really is much stigma. I could certainly care less what other people choose to ride. I've tried a few and (at 55) they are not for me, but I'm glad they exist as an option.

So, a few things to consider:

Cost: there is no getting away from the fact that they cost more, both to buy and then to keep running. The latter is starting to become more apparent now, but you never really saw anybody claiming that an ebike might be the last bike you ever buy. So, going down this route means sinking more of your cash into your cycling. Nothing wrong with that assuming you can afford it. You can't take it with you. But equally you can't spend it twice. So it's worth thinking about what else you could spend that cash on and what means more to you.

Benefits: This is where it gets totally subjective but we all have different reasons why we ride. For example, there are some people for whom climbs are just a chore and a means to get to the good bits. For those people an ebike makes perfect sense (your own personal uplift). Others talk about it allowing them to "get more riding in" but I assume they are just the same a the first group. Obviously an ebike doesn't stretch time and going further in the same time isn't really any more enjoyable on its own (if it were we'd just ride motorbikes). So I guess what those people like is that they get more descents in the same time. But that's just a guess.

Personally I'm one of those people who enjoys the climb every bit as much as the descent and often judge a ride by what I managed to get up rather than what I got down. After the initial thrill of cruising up a climb that used to kill me I found that it had basically taken away my sense of achievement, which I now realise is a big part of the enjoyment, for me. I also really like being out in the peace and quiet of nature on my own and the whine from the motor drove me nuts. But I have a friend who is basically a walker and just uses a bike to access the mountains. He loves his ebike. So, as always, each to their own.

The only thing that puts me off at the moment is the big bills for fixing them outside warranty. Seems to be now way of servicing them other than paying about 900 quid for a new motor?

Reviews really need to focus on how maintainable stuff is, not just how it performs when brand new.

I had one until someone nicked it and they are great. I used to ride up a lot of stuff I probably would never have tried before. but I was very annoyed when my Shimano motor bricked itself on an update at 3 months old and there was a faff getting it sorted via Madison. I haven't replaced the stolen one with another e-bike, as I think the tech needs to mature more. Also I am a) paranoid about it going walkies b) paranoid about it breaking out of warranty.

The only thing that puts me off at the moment is the big bills for fixing them outside warranty. Seems to be now way of servicing them other than paying about 900 quid for a new motor?

Motors can be serviced or reconditioned. Performance Line near Southampton for example, Bosch £140 for the kit, £63 for them to do it.

I think they're a great option, same as everything bike-related, you just have to decide if it's for you or not (and which one - emtbs do seem to be spreading out in choice a fair bit, like errrr, mtbs).

Rider A has only a few hours a week to go riding around other commitments. They want the most fun in that time, focussing on the trails they like most and limited range isn't a big issue.

Rider B gets up at the weekend, potters around their bike adjusting settings, sets out with or without a group of friends (who may or may not be on ebikes) and has all day to explore and pace themselves before heading to the pub to chat bikes.

Those two riders will have a very different view on what ebikes will bring to their riding.

As long as it isn't a 29er!!! Throwback LOL.

Interesting points about the longer-term ownership risk/expense.

They're arguably a product that would work better on a lease basis, like a lot of people buy cars. Hand it back after a few years (all in warranty) and get a new one.

I guess the secondhand market is still developing but I believe there are already specialists who'll fix motors which are out of warranty?

There was a previous thread on this, they have varying levels of serviceability.
Shimano are not serviceable iirc?

Presumably they will definitely need some kind of servicing at some point given all the bearings/gears/electronics in there, especially given their exposure to water, mud, vibrations etc

Just make sure when you take your first one you're in a decent club with decent music with friends around you and you'll be fine. Some of my best nights Eva! etc etc.

I have one, it was bought as a toy tbh, but not long after I got it I had an industrial accident, and my right leg doesn’t have the strength or mobility it used to.
Mine is a cube stereo, bosch motor.
I certainly notice the weight when I’m putting it in/on the car, but not when riding.
Mine has been faultless, but it has only done 1200 or so miles.
It makes me appreciate my analogue bikes more, an Ebike doesn’t respond to those little half a stroke increases in your output in the same way as a truly light bike does.
There’s no stigma, I bet most people wouldn’t even notice it was electric anyway.
Out in the real world, people are always positive, it’s online where you get the ‘hate’
And tbh, I’m not certain that it’s not just folk taking the piss.
Since I got mine, I actually ride my other bikes more, and I’m 3.5 stone lighter than I was, mostly due to dietary changes.

Ive never ridden one, but i'm sure i'll end up on one someday.

I can see loads of positives about them (mainly longer rides) but two things put me off a bit. Firstly, i'm fully with Roverpig on the enjoyment and challenge of a technical climb and my head is still in that whole "no dabs" space. Secondly, the playful aspect of MTB (jumps, drops, manuals etc) i imagine would be seriously compromised.