dantsw13, what front mud guard is that? Does it work OK on the manitou tower, please?
Cheeky Monkey - Is your post baggy when near its max mark, ie with the end of the post ~100mm into the frame? If so, thats what all three of my frames have been like, though the current one (from this latest batch) is better than the pervious two. You'll find (or I did) that if you have more post in the frame it stops being baggy (basically the seat tube has an hourglass internal shape due to the welding). I "solved" the issue by buying a 450mm long post so I get a good 6inch insertion. Be careful if you just crank up the seat clamp or shim the post. I did that on frame number 1 and cracked the seat tube at the end of the post.
You are using a 31.6mm post though, right?
Canefrog - its a Muckynutz Bender FenderXL. Its installed backwards due to the Rear arch on the Manitou. It has at least 10mm clearance all round on the Manitou with a Smorgasbord tyre, which is quite a big 2.25. I think it would handle a 2.35 fine, which is pretty good, considering the arch on the Tower Pro isn't huge.
If anybody needs a ride on an 18" Fireline to have a feel for it, Im in East Sussex, but get about a bit in the SE.
Thanks for the write up, I'm a medium Yelli rider too.Do you not notice the slightly longer chainstays of the Fireline? That's my major concern in moving away from the Yelli.
Overall- I find the fireline to wheelie/manual easier than the Yelli, but not as easy as the Honzo.
Don't pay attention to the whingers that get all bent out of shape on chainstay length. Here is the truth:
The fireline has a "normal" (i.e. slacker) effective seat tube angle compared to the yelli/Honzo. If the fireline chainstays are long, why is the seat tube so close to the rear tire? It's pretty obvious these chainstays are as short as you can get without making a compromise somewhere else.
In terms of what makes a bike easy to manual/wheelie/slash corners, chainstay length is not the only factor. The fireline has a relatively short wheelbase, slacker seat tube and a tall head tube, things which help make it easy to get the front end up or snap out of corners.
Having owned all three, the FIreline feels in between the Honzo and the Yelli, which is what I was hoping for. The Honzo was super playful, quick and easy to manual but lacked stability on fast rocky trails. I liked the Yelli better, but the fireline is little easier to manual for me with the shorter reach and slacker seat angle. Ride quality and weight wise the Fireline is the best of the three. If you like the medium Yelli the 18" Fireline will feel very similar. Lighter, more compliant, a bit shorter reach when out of the saddle, and a bit less standover.
On my Honzo, I had moved the sliding drop-outs back to 16.75"/425mm to add some stability on fast rocky trails. Helped, but still the stiff back worked against the bike in these conditions. IMO 425-430mm is the sweet spot- look at the chromag and ROS9- both in this range along wiht the fireline.
Perfect? Not quite for me- only because I would prefer a 17" size option. And 142x12 drop-outs. But I am very happy with this frame.
as for the seat tube, I've fit both a 31.6 syncros and a 30.9 Kindshock i950, with a problem solvers shim. Both fit perfectly with no slop regardless of insertion depth.
^^ thanks for the detailed write up and thoughts.
Dan - yes please am in 'Surrey Hills'.
A couple of things - re c/stays, the chain stay length on it's own is only one factor, but combined with other factors like BB drop, reach, stack and FC length it tells a story.
The tyre on a Fireline is close to the seat tube because it's about as short as one can reasonably go without either having a crazy steep ST angle, or manipulating the seat tube (Fortitude), curving the seat tube (Honzo, Buzzard, High Latitude) or splitting it (Division). It's reasonably short, like the Genesis bikes, but not as short as the others. I'm not getting hung up on that one dimension - simply clarifying something.
What makes the Fireline easier to manual isn't shorter chain stays, but rather a combination of higher BB, higher hand position and shorter reach (for similar frame sizes). ST angle has no effect as you're not seated when manualing. Short reach yes, slack ST - no.
Email - your Honzo was a 16" right? FL is an 18"? Stability due to overall wheelbase rather than anything else.
Sounds like you're between sizes on a Honzo, and a 17" FL might get skitty again due to a shorter wheelbase.
Hey sillyoldman, right on....couple of thoughts
ST angle has no effect as you're not seated when manualing. Short reach yes, slack ST - no.
Strictly for manualing down the street, sure. But situations like a wheelie drop in the middle of a flattish pedaly technical trail…wheelie-drops off flat wood....or trying to keep the front end down on a steep climb… basically any situation where you’re trying to get the front end up/ keep it down while seated- in those situations seat angle makes just as much difference as chainstay length in the "wheelie-ability"- so I always consider it.
Email - your Honzo was a 16" right? FL is an 18"? Stability due to overall wheelbase rather than anything else.
Sounds like you're between sizes on a Honzo, and a 17" FL might get skitty again due to a shorter wheelbase.
Fitwise, yes I had a 16” Honzo and a medium yelli screamy. I agree the short wheelbase was largely what didn’t work for me on the 16” Honzo (and that’s why I didn’t buy a 16” Fireline). The interesting thing is comparing the top tube and reach numbers between all these frames- the fireline has a very short reach (given similar top tube lengths) compared to the Honzo/Yelli. In fact, the 20” Fireline has similar reach to the 16” Honzo- even though the top tube lengths are consistently similar at the same sizes! When I held the 18” Fireline up against my small honzo frame, the bottom of the head tube and drop-outs actually lined up pretty close… but the BB on the fireline was further forward and the slacker seat tube which makes the ETT longer. This was with the Honzo drop-outs slid back to 16.75” which helped tame the high-speed nervousness. The fireline is also a hair slacker with the same fork.
I saw Brant mention a custom fireline option. The wheelbase/reach/TT of the 18”, but with a 17” seat tube and shorter head tube (like the 16”) would be ideal for me. But the 18” fits & handles great with flat bars and no spacers.
Hi guys,
I am building my titus now. I have problem with my front mech, which I can not mount. Seems not enough clearance.
Now I need to buy a more compact front mech. I am looking at this one:
[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/bg/en/shimano-xt-m786-conventional-2x10-front-mech/rp-prod67203 ]front mech[/url]
It looks more compact according to mine. Takes less space from the tyre clearance. I have following 2 questions:
1. Do you know if this mech will work fine with 2.1, 2.2,5 rear tyre on titus 20" ?
2. Do you know if it is compatible with sram 2x10 front shifter
Thanks in advance.
Macleod, look at my pic at the top of the page - I recommend getting a Direct Mount Front Mech, with a DM adapter from On-One. You can then run Full Outer Cable to the front mech, without using the cable guide on the seat tube.
You can also use a hacksaw to remove the bottom pull arm from the mech, as per the instructions earlier in this thread.
I'm very happy with this setup, with loads of clearance using a 2.25 smorgasbord.
I don't think SRAM shifters are supposed to be compatible with Shimano mechs, but they may work. Front shifters are widely available in the classifieds from 1x10 convertees.
[img][url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3748/11934731103_ced09bb0ea_c.jp g" target="_blank">
Covered in cr@p but not clogged up at all.
I can not see much from the system, because of the dirt. In all cases it was a good ride. 🙂
Is it necessary to be adaptor from on-one ?
Maybe this one can do the job too:
[url= http://www.ebay.com/itm/System-EX-Front-Mech-Adapter-Derailleur-Braze-on-Clamp-Mount-Bracket-/400470921102?pt=UK_sportsleisure_cycling_bikeparts_SR&var=&hash=item5d3ded4f8e ]adaptor[/url]
How big is your tire on the last photo ?
No the one in the link is a braze on adapter, not Direct Mount.
My setup is the one used by Rorschach on P9 of this thread, except he used the Problemsolvers adapter which is £35, and I used the O-O one which is £9.99, but almost identical.
The tyre was a 2.25 smorgasbord, which is fairly meaty.
If I get a chance to clean it after the ride tomorrow, ill take a piccy.
[url= http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/FSTITEGMC/el_guapo_hdm_mech_clamp ]On one clamp[/url]
The on-one clamp is really nice, but with the 20 pounds delivery to my country/city - Bulgaria/Sofia it will come to the price of a new mech hanger. And I was not clever enough to purchase one clamp with the frame. 🙁
I will search tomorrow for a direct mount adaptor in the local shops here. They should have some. I also have a direct mount front mech. So I need only the correct adaptor.
Thanks for the info.
[img][url= http://farm6.staticflickr.com/5541/12030345846_992a3d588b_c.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/76248110@N06/12030345846/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/76248110@N06/ ]danthomassw13[/url], on Flickr[/img]
For me, the biggest issue was the closeness of the cable from the seat tube cable stop to the front mech, so the ability to run full outer was the key.
Thanks for pic. I did not succeed to find such adaptor here. I want to check one more shop tommorrow ( today it is not working, because it is Sunday ). And if they do not have, I will purchase this clamp too.
For me, the biggest issue was the closeness of the cable from the seat tube cable stop to the front mech, so the ability to run full outer was the key.
Why what is the problem with that ?
Ah... You mean that the tire will rubber into the cable ?
Well, I'm on my second frame already.
Dropped my "baggy" seat tube'd one in on Friday and Lee in the workshop checked it and agreed the 2mm oversize was out of tolerance. Replacement frame will be in the post any day.
No hassle or troubles dealing with On One and changed without quibble. Fingers crossed for secondtime lucky 😎
I already have the bike built and ready to ride. I just need to put my direct mount front mech, but I am waiting for the adaptor [url= http://on-one.co.uk/i/q/FSTITEGMC/el_guapo_hdm_mech_clamp ]mech clamp[/url] to arrive from on-one stores. I also noticed that maybe the seat tube is oversized, but I do not have any problems with that. I am using a thomson seatclamp with bolt. So I tighten the bolt and everything is fine for me. Maybe there will be a problem with qr seatclamps. It will be harder to tighten them, but I prefer seatclamps with bolts, so I am completely ok with the seattube. The bike is very nice and very comfortable. I am riding 1x10 now ( well until my clamp arrives so I can put my front mech ). I do not like 1x10. Too few gears for me. 🙂
Has anyone successfully installed the FSA Orbit E 1.5 lower headset as mentioned by JaIIII on page 12 of this thread.
I have the 20" with the massive head tube and want to fit some 140mm tapered forks without raising the front end any higher, so that 15mm lower cup has to go. At 120mm with flat bars slammed it is as high as if not higher than Is ideal already.
It appears it is only available in the states, and the UK importers Windwave seem confused that such a headset even exists or is possible.
Any other options? this appears to be the only headset of it's type.
Think I looked into it but the catch is the loose ball bearings (depending on how you feel about them).
Don't think they were silly pricey so maybe just buy direct from the states and ship over.
Be interesting to see how they compare.
Looks like the FSA Gravity 2 which is available for just over £20 in the UK is the same spec, 55OD and 49ID. here is a link to a picture with the little bearings: http://fotos.mtb-news.de/p/722650
Worth a try, will report back when fitted.
Here's mine with the Orbit headset lower cup installed:
[url= http://farm8.staticflickr.com/7428/12274462225_12bc677033_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/75893226@N06/12274462225/ ]IMAG0264[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/75893226@N06/ ]scrufftv[/url], on Flickr
[url= http://farm4.staticflickr.com/3690/12274611333_4be54cb25e_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/75893226@N06/12274611333/ ]IMAG0265[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/75893226@N06/ ]scrufftv[/url], on Flickr
Fourth outing today, and I've almost got everything set up perfect. Burly build with 140 mm Pikes, Flows, reverb and Vault pedals. 70mm -6 deg stem and flat 760mm bars. Originally had some 120mm Rebas and some Crests on it but this suits the aggro feel much better.
Might try going back to the external lower cup again as having tried it with the Pikes I liked the extra slackness ( but not the bar height ).
Very pleased with the ride, excellent sprightly climber and a very confident descender, a proper all rounder.
One thing that not many people have picked up on so far that needs mentioning is the strange feeling of the front center shrinking when you stand up and stomp. The bias is to enable seated climbing and if you like to be out of the seat allot you might find the bars feel too tucked under you. This surprised me on the first outing, but a few cockpit changes have got it almost under control.
Where did you get the lower cup from in the end? Is it a boat anchor in weight?
Cheers
Halfords, FSA Gravity 2 . no heavier than the Smoothie Mixer it replaced, probably a touch lighter.
Cheers. I might invest in one.
Just thinking about chopping in my 456 carbon for one of these Ti Firelines but couple of questions I keep thinking about
Bearing in mind I'm a heavier rider around 100kg and 6 foot 3 and like fun bikes rather than race bikes
I been looking at 140mm forks either some pikes or some new revelation dual position airs (140/110)
I know 140 is probably more than enough but I've seen a few set of pike dual position airs (150/120) and I really fancy the idea of the bigger stations but not sure if it's one step too far??
Thinking of xt build with xo trail brakes, Renthal bars, hope bits & hope hoops on stans flows.
Open to all suggestions and looking for some advice from you guys
Cheers
I used to have a C456, and now have a Fireline. They are a similar style of bike, but the Fireline has the29er advantages added in too, and the Ti frame gives a much suppler ride than the harsh C456 IMHO.
I run mine with the 120mm Manitou Tower Pro, which also comes in a 140. i'm also 100kg fully kitted out.
I came from a ti456 which wasn't d h.too much of a change. A mate has the c456 tho and has just gone to a soul and reports how the steel is much less harsh.
I've (slave) fitted some pikes and they looked and felt great the front end gets a bit high. They were earmarked for my new Spider tho so went to the new bike.
I've just fitted a set of x-fusion trace forks and after one ride they're pretty good. 34mm stanchions are as stiff as pikes really (and a step up on the revs I had prior). Damping isn't bad so far either tho I need to get them on some proper rocks really. So far tho for the money they compare very well to pikes!. (as most reviews suggest)
Comfort is the main reason I've been thinking about a change from the c456 to be honest & that I'm likely to be working in Abu dhabi for 2-3 years. Most of the riding over their seems to be generally harsher than it is here but with plenty of long winded climbs and I may be using the bike to get around a little bit.
The pikes seems a good option being stiffer and I've seen a few new sets on eBay for £475ish for the 140mm rct3
Just unsure if it would be better to have the dual position 150/120mm set and then get some flat bars to lower the front but should still be great for climbing????
Think fox are too expensive and their 2013 damping was crap.
I'll check out those xfusion forks tho
Aye the Ti456 definately had a level of comfort when I first rode it. the 29er wheels of the Fireline then took that on a level when I moved to that. So yeah for a Hardtail its pretty comfortable.
Aye the pikes are very good. Like mine a lot. However managed to pick the x-fusions up for £230 lightly used so quite a saving so it'll be good to see how they compare as I get them both more dialled.
I've never been one for dual position forks... can't seem to cope with the albeit minor changes in Geo and just more to go wrong for me anyway.
There is the FSA Gravity Headset mentioned above if ya wann drop a bit more height of the front end too!
Chute6-
Keeping in mind we're different heights... I did ~8 rides with a fox float 140 on mine, then dropped the fork to 130mm and liked it better immediately. 120 might be even better. For one thing, less travel reduces what my buddy called "the stapler effect" of long travel hardtails. Also the fireline has a decently long head tube, so even with flat bars the front end feels tall with a 140 fork.
Taller fork raises the BB...
130 with flat bars feels good.
The pike is just a bit shorter though compared to the fox
I kind of like higher front ends and slacker head angles coming from a more dh/fr background but at the same time, don't want it to be a pig to climb.
Reading up on the pike rct3 it looks pretty easy to add spacers to alter the spring rate and at the other end, alter the travel which is cool because it would allow me to play with it to find what feels right.
The only problem is I can't seem to find any shops selling them in white and not a fan of the all black look.
Also, anyone had any experience using a 10mm axle on these frames? Like the superstar 10mm qr and bolt through hubs to match? Read a bit about them stiffening the rear up in a horizontal motion, ie less of that sideways flexy feeling.
Be careful with the pikes as you need new air springs (£30 ish) to adjust the height. The springs aren't very available just yet either. The pink bottomless tokens seem a good idea tho to tune the curve. Not got to playing with mine yet.
The trace forks I mentioned have a shorter a2c height than other forks so keeps the bb lower (& bars) for a given travel. The Trace's also have a pin and ladder setup internally so can easily be played with to try different heights! (at no cost if your reasonably handy).
Running a dt rws on the rear of mine and fits fine. Seems nice n stiff but again I carried it across from the ti456.
chute6 - MemberThe only problem is I can't seem to find any shops selling them in white and not a fan of the all black look.
I think the white is DPA only.
I kind of like higher front ends and slacker head angles coming from a more dh/fr background but at the same time, don't want it to be a pig to climb.
I hear you- my background as well. with a 140 fork the head angle sits around 66.7... for 29'er thats very slack. I found with the flox float 140 this resulted in pretty bad wheel flop while trackstanding on level ground. Not a problem I had with the 140 fork on other 29'ers (kon Honzo, yelli). It's not just the head angle, longer fork also raises the BB etc.
what bugged me more was the resulting change in head angle as the fork goes through it's travel. Charge into a g-out corner and your head angle changes ~5 degrees... too much! What i like about the shorter fork is that it keeps the handling more consistent thoughout the fork travel.
Anyways it's a subtle thing but just dropping the fork 10mm was a big improvement.
I have a pike on my other bike (banshee prime) but I sort of like the fox on the fireline since it's easy to change travel.
Also added a through axle on mine (sunn ringle charger pros) Not a huge difference but everything counts with stiffness.
I like the fireline so much I got carried away last ride and dislocated my shoulder... so it's waiting for my recovery.
I like your style emailsucks98 -that old saying of "if you're not crashing, you're not going fast enough" is defo true, lol
Is there an chance on some picks of your bikes Gee76 & emailsucks98??
Would quite like something I can change down to about 130mm travel so don't mind buying other springs if they arent too expensive.
I run some 36 kashima talas 180 rc2 forks on my canyon & love the travel adjust feature, hence why I was thinking of these dual position air pikes.
I've seen some 2013 34 floats for around £600 in freeborn bikes which would be easier to adjust but if I'm right in thinking are heavier and longer a2c so no good really.
Just want to get my hands on one now.........
This is mine 🙂
it's got a 140mm Revelation on it at the moment, but I really don't like how it feels. I have a 160mm Pike off my Enduro i'm going to shorten to 120 for it. Trouble is the steerer is pretty short at 180mm. That's too short with the current external lower cup, I reckon with one of those FSA headsets it should just give me enough steerer out the top for the stem.
I really like it, apart from the fork, which feels like turd.
[img] 
[/img]
Quick snaps in garage...
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3781/12488065394_ed7751a559_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/60664913@N08/12488065394/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/60664913@N08/ ]GeT76[/url], on Flickr
[url= https://farm4.staticflickr.com/3775/12487606055_5a93802958_b.jp g" target="_blank">
[url= http://www.flickr.com/photos/60664913@N08/12487606055/ ]Untitled[/url] by [url= http://www.flickr.com/people/60664913@N08/ ]GeT76[/url], on Flickr
Cracking looking bikes and think I like the white coloured forks better.
Hob nob- what is it about the revelation that you don't like?
Have you weighed your fireline hob nob? Looks a very similar build to what I've been planning. My 456 carbon is 25lbs all in but I've seen quite a few on here at a very similar weight. Is 26-27lb a reasonable estimate with pikes, hope hoops flows and xt single ring etc?
Those xfusions do look nice, is there much noticeable difference in performance good or bad from fox/rockshox/marzocchi/manitou
Thanks
They just feel like RS of old to me, I had a set of Revelations a few years ago & hated them, harsh initially and then once moving, far too soggy. The Pikes are a completely different fork 🙂
Mine is pretty much 25lbs as it is, although a parts bin special, it's all light parts. The Pike is less than 100g extra in weight than the Revs, I think the wheels you will add a fair chunk on, but i'd be surprised if it was more than 26-27lb.
