Anyone riding (or ridden) a Titus El Guapo with the Monarch shock? As you can now get the frameset for £600 I'm quite tempted to get one and stick some Fox 36 160s in it and sell my Heckler.
I'd read (somewhere...) that it suffers from a bit of rear-end flex and that the low BB can get in the way BUT I've also read that it's awesome.
So any of the O'wise Singletrackions got any opinions before I split with my hard-earned?
So, some background:
I'm coming from a socom with a 150mm bolt thru rear end, not a stiff bike, but not silly flexy either. It is a low race bike though, replaced it as I'm not racing much these days. I'm 6'4" and about 85kg. My titus is built with bits from that, so there are totems on the front, but spaced down to 160mm, internal headset.
Don't find the back end flexy at all. I suspect wheel build will have more impact than the frame. FWIW I *do* find prophets a bit flexy at the back, so I know what a flexy bike feels like.
Low BB is ace. But that's coming from an equally low socom. I wanted a DH bike I could pedal about too, it's fine for that. You do have to think about what you're doing uphill though. A compromise I'm happy to accept, but then I have an XC bike too for when I want to do that*.
Shock blows through the mid-stoke a bit, but OTOH I can set it up how I like it to feel, so I'm happy there. It feels like any other 4-bar in sus-feel. I prefer VPPs, but 4 bars are a close second.
On the whole, I'm pretty happy with it. I'll probably put a 1.5degree angleset in at some point, which will make it worse for XC, but more like my socom for DH (the HA is the only difference, in every other way it feels the same size/shape etc). This change would be for a bit more high speed stability though, not to make it better on the steeps, seems fine there. Just feels a little twitchy at full chat - but then I'm comparing to a DH bike here, it'd be planted compared to a heckler.
If I was buying again now, would I get the same again? Yes.
*to add to this, I have ridden it XC. Round kirroughtree most recently, which was great fun (till I broke my hand. Ouch.) I'd have been faster round on my XC hardtail, but had a lot of fun on my titus. I've also ridden it to the top of inners 6 times over a weekend for an enduro, so it does go up hills fine. It was geared 38t front, 11-32 rear, which I managed fine but was a bit of a gurn at times, so I've dropped to a 32 on the front.
That beardy fellah at Great rock rides one, have a look here...
scroll down a bit and there's a vid...
longish chainstays (440mm) - is that noticeable?
I'm also interested as i'm still pondering putting together a 150mm bike for the Alps, but I don't like long chainstay frames.
Hard to say? Is it actually a dislike to a certain length of chainstay on religious grounds, or did you mean to say there's a handling characteristic you don't like? 😉
Stopping being a pedant for a (small) moment, it's stable, and has good traction. Typical of longish chainstays. Feels plenty maneuverable though - but as I say, I'm comparing to a DH bike and I'm tall, so my bikes are always big/long.
Yep, seen Ed's vid, that's where I'd heard it was pretty darn gooood. Cheers!
@IA. Awesome info, thanks a lot. I ride a lot of XC and have raced a bit, too, but I'm venturing more into wilder, more mountainous, rides now as it seems to make me smile more, which is nice. I've not got the biggest balls in the UK (far from it) so I guess I'm looking to build something that will make me feel more comfortable pointing downwards, quite steeply. The Heckler with 140s is quite good, loads more confidence inspiring than my slammed Cube hardtail but I'm after something a little more.
I'll be selling the Cube hardtail and probably the Heckler frame/shock and forks to fund this build so I want to make sure I'm buying the right thing for maximum grin without ruining my uphill sections too much.
Are you running 1x10 then with a chain device etc? Do you find that you hit rocks with the low BB or not much of a prob?
EDIT: I've never ridden a Monarch shock, always had RP23s. How do they compare?
If its one of the wiggle ones it might come with a different shock, I just got the last Titus rockstar frame and it came with an RP23 boost valve, worth a check..
Are you running 1x10 then with a chain device etc? Do you find that you hit rocks with the low BB or not much of a prob?EDIT: I've never ridden a Monarch shock, always had RP23s. How do they compare?
1x9, gamut chain device, 175 cranks (I run 180s by preference XC, ran 165s on the socom). 1x10 would get you a 36 on the back, which would be a bit more comfortable on some stuff (or get you a wider range with a 36+ up front). I'm relatively strong and can push a fairly high gear though if I have to, gearing's obviously a very personal thing! I'd go 1by-something though, chain device adds a lot of security and makes a big difference.
Going up hills, as I say, you just have to be careful about clouting the cranks. So it makes some things a bit more awkward. E.g. a rocky step I'd just skip up on the HT needs a bit of thought about crank positioning (as they're lower, and it's a bit harder to hop/lift than a light HT). I'd say it does piss me off, but I deal with it. Not stopped me getting up anything yet, but made me think a bit more, can slow you down a bit.
I've had RP23s before, pretty similar TBH. 3 position compression damping is quite nice, basically you have an uphills, along hills and downhill setting (IMO). With the max floodgate position you have a very firm platform which props you up a bit more, steepens the bike up (obviously) etc. which makes a noticeable difference to climbing. I do use it, whereas I hardly flipped it on for my prophet, and basically never on a trance.
There'll be more difference between the sus action of a heckler and an EG with the same shock than between the two shocks.
I did have an issue with my original monarch loosing air, but on-one were great and had it back to fishers and fixed with little bother.
Non left at wiggle, never had a monarch..sorry..
No, On One, 7 left according to their w/s.
Awesome, thanks for the info it's a great help!
FWIW for what you want....I'm not sure if it's the right choice or not. Sorry, not helpful!
To expand...
I think if I'd want it as my only bike, and...it depends. Depends what you ride most of the time, what you like riding etc. I'd race this DH, but I wouldn't want to race it XC or ride an MTB marathon on it (though I have done a big chunk of the selkirk course on it, ruined me mind).
I think the main issue is tyres, and to a lesser extent wheels. Tyres that make it good DH will be nearly unbearable for an XC ride, and vice-versa.
Though I guess if you want a little bit more DH than a heckler, this probably fits the bill. It's more DH than my prophet was (fairly similar to your heckler? I had 140mm pikes on it), but if I only had one bike...the prophet would probably have been better. I'd have sacrificed some DH power to make it better for everyday XC riding. As I say though, depends where you ride/live! If I lived in the lakes...maybe not.
I guess it also depends on the pace of your usual rides, and your relative fitness etc. If I was riding mostly biggish group rides, with folk I'm faster than - I could deal with the bigger bike, I'd still keep up fine and have fun on the downs. However, riding faster XC with fast folk...it'd be a hinderance.
Finally, I think it's almost too much bike XC (how mine's built). As in, the speeds I can do over rough terrain are more than I'm happy with without my full-face and (sometimes) armour on too. It can make for a less exciting ride, as the limit to my speed's not my skill or the bike, but how fast I'm prepared to let myself go over given terrain etc. If that makes any sense? Again like the fitness thing tho, this depends how fast you are DH (rather than uphill). If you're wanting some help on the DH, maybe a bigger bike is a good thing? I'm not a fast DH racer (mid-field, very average!), but I think anyone that's done some DH racing is probably faster than the average MTBer dh? So I think a smaller bike would still let me ride everything I want, at a pace I'm happy with in an XC setting, and be better uphill too.
Anyhow, a load of waffle (from someone that's tried the "one bike" and "many bikes" approaches). Your opinions can and will differ! (as will others!)
Oh, and a final thought:
Your bike is, lets face it, a toy to have fun on.
It's fun riding and trying different bikes, riding different things. If you think it sounds fun to get one and try it out - go for it! No bike will be perfect, but it also [i]doesn't matter at all[/i].
I like short chainstays (and in some ways this is why I like hardtails) as they make the bike wheelie/manual easier, which in turn makes it more nimble to get up and over stuff. Plus the manouverability (sp?) is good, and the bike turns quickly so good for technical climbs and tricky descents. Downside is a bit less high speed stability but I'm not fussed about that.
I don't like long stays for the reasons given above - they don't wheelie, steering is slower, less nimble etc.
The arguments for longer stays are fine - more stability and traction (possibly) but they just don't really matter to me. In other words, I never think, ooh I'd like more traction or oooh I need more stability. Just never happens.
I'll not be racing on it. I was racing XC on the hardy and was aiming for XCM champs in Austria this year but after an injury in January and, later, surgery (along with a cancer scare) a few weeks ago it's put things into perspective a bit. My main focus now is just having fun on a bike and being greatful for getting out.
You make good points about what holds you back on the DH. I'm pretty much the same, really. I don't really struggle on climbs or keeping up on group rides as I'm pretty fit but I'm certainly not used to steeper terrain – although I'm quite capable over tech XC.
The Heckler is a pretty good bike, all-in-all, but I've been toying with this El Guapo idea for a bit and I think I'm gonna give it a go. Although they are releasing new colourways at the end of the month so I might hold out for a pearl white...
Are all the teachers on holiday or something? Seaked!!!... 😯 you got away with that one... 😀 nearly...
they sure getted away with it
steering is slower, less nimble etc.
This all applies to slack bikes too...point I'm making is how a bike rides isn't just one measurement (though it can be indicative).
However, in summary, I'm mostly comparing the EG to DH bikes, and large bikes in general, so have little to offer in the short vs. long stays, other than it feels fine to me (but of course may not to you!).
yeah, I'm not that keen on mega slack angles either!
I rode a mate's Spicy the other day and that has a 66 head angle (officially, although it's obviously is influenced by sag etc.) and long stays and I hated it. Felt like a right cumbersome beast. Sure it would fly down fast, rocky descents but I just hated it. That's what I want to avoid.
Interestingly the latest 2012 Spicys are listed as having 425mm stays, which is pretty short, so Lapierre has obviously been playing around with the geo quite a bit.
Are all the teachers on holiday or something? Seaked!!!... you got away with that one... nearly...
I did that on purpose to see if you noticed. And you did. You're so predictable.
😉
Yeh yeh... 😉 😀 Busted...