[Closed] This SPD business

No need for cages, Eggbeaters testify to that, tighten 'em up and persevere, they will become second nature

It feels like the contact points between your feet and pedals are so small that theres the pressure of your whole body on a very small surface area. I'll try and get out tomorrow and tighten those screws. Cheers

Persist but keep them slack but not too slack until you get used to disengaging quickly would be my advice.

thanks man

Make sure the cleats are in a good position on the sole of your shoes. Sounds daft, but a few MM of adjustment could set you right.

Where do you recommend?

All I'd say is don't rely on spuds to replace technique - i.e. most of the technique that you need for flats is still needed for spuds. I prefer flats though even after years of toe clips/SPDs. More fun I think.

Only you can know which position feels right, some riders are heels in or out, just need to experment

Well mine are just after the centre position.
When I first fitted them I tried them in a few different positions until I was happy.

It's not a big job, but will make a big difference in the long run! And tighten the tension up a couple of turns to get some more 'support'

ciao.

Don't tighten them up until you are confident about your ability to release from them! it takes a fair bit of practise to release on demand and it's even harder when you try to do it in a hurry. I.E. your about to pile in. Take your time and you will gradually feel the benefits of being clipped in.You will inevitably have a few falls, most of which usually occur at very slow speeds when you are least expecting it! and in front of a crowd of people. Have fun!!

racers tend to mount the clips either on big toe ball or forwards, the more rearward you go, the more of a feeling of stability you'll get - and less stress on your calves when stood.

Pedalling efficiency is supposed to be improved forward of big toe joint, however Andy Pruitt of Specialized BG fame suggests that it doesn't make much difference.

in terms of to in/out orientation.. it needs to be a natural position for you physiology. Everyone is different.

Keep trying with it though as it'll click soon.

Also, soft soled shoes will make small bodied pedals feel odd... your foot will bend around the pedal whereas a stiffer soled shoe will be an extenion of the pedal.. effectively the shoe sole being the pedal cage IYSWIM

Yeh, it might be worth looking at your shoe. You sound like you want a stiffer sole to me. The shoe spreads the weight across the stiff section of sole and really takes the place of the pedal cage.

Flats are really useful for all those long travel riders out there as they spend most of their lives walking their bikes around. If you actually want to ride, SPDs are the way to go for sure.

Yesterday at Nant-yr-Arian:
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I believe one of th ways to find out the best position for the cleats in terms of heel in or out is to sit on a table with your legs hanging relaxed and look at the orientation of your feet and then try to replicate the heel in or out angle.

I have always ridden on spds - as said above its no substitute for technique. I spent a bit of time riding on flats to learn to bunnyhop / jump prperly and then when back to spds.

Pedalling efficiency is much improved IMO with spds as you can "pedal in circles" much better. the muscle that pulls yoour toe upwards is noticabley developed in my legs from years of spd riding.

Uncliping will soon become second nature

I've spent all my 1st year on flats so I know some basic jumping and manouvering the bike techniques. My shoes are mp66. I'm gonna experiment moving contact point a bit further back. In the long run will spds with flat cages help or will there not be that much of a benefit. Great advice by the way

I have spds with cages and without - to be honest I can't tell the difference in feel. the ones with cages / platforms are on my commuter so I can ride in ordinary shoes

[i]Flats are really useful for all those long travel riders out there as they spend most of their lives walking their bikes around. If you actually want to ride, SPDs are the way to go for sure.[/i]

That's a sweeping statement. Have you spent much time on flats or heavy freeride/downhill bikes?

That's a sweeping statement. Have you spent much time on flats or heavy freeride/downhill bikes?

Ive spent a lot of time pushing big downhill bikes up hills. I can tell you its a bugger trying to push a 47lb bike up a steep hill in stiff spds (disco slipper style), even flexier trainer style spd shoes kill me pushing that thing up to the top of inners.

At least SPD crashes are often not as spectacular as Fork lockout crashes 🙂

Persist with spuds, worth the effort. And once you know it like riding a bike, errrr!

Conks

Anybody else with experience of riding spds with flat cages. Any benefits. I can't see that tightening up the tension on my m520s is going to make me feel like I have more balance from more surface area contacting. I can see the point of having a stiffer sole shoe would, however I like the look of my mp66s and don't really like the look of most of the spd shoe range. Hopefully not offended anyone. My friend has some m647 pedals that I might try and see if it feels better. Gonna try my 520s today with more tension though and see how I get on. If I can get out for a bit that is.

I went from 'naked' SPDs to caged ones purely for those few times when you are on a sketchy section and you do dab (rare though), it can help your confidence getting going again if you are able to just mash down on the pedal without needing to be clipped in - which you can with caged ones. Once you have a bit of movement going, you usually have time to clip in again. Same applies riding in snow, when you end up with a lump of snow stuck to your cleat.

Telemaster - to get the best out of SPDs you need stiff soles. Its not about how it looks its about how it works.

just play arround with th eposition til it feels "right"

as a starting point, marker pen on your shoes at your foot's widest point. then put the cleats inline with those.

As for release tension it depends, racers tnd to have them set very loose so that they have to realy twist a long way, pevents them coming out accidentalty. Newer riders should have the reslease angle set smaller so you can pull out of them if needed.

Personaly i went back to flats after my knee op, and despite not riding in the best part of two years, they made it so much easier to do technical sections. You'd have to have some serious blinkers on to not see the advantages of flats on technical sections. Even DH riders generaly admit that one or the other is favoured on certain sections/tracks.

Get some decent shoes! SPD's are a bit pony if you don't have them.

Stop being a pansy 🙂

Conks

Tandemjeremy has some good advice about the sitting on the table thing, means your feet are sitting in the most natural position.
Stiff shoes make a massive difference, going from flexy shoes up to carbon soled disc slippers is quite a revelation.
I run spds for commuting but flats for offroad.

Its not about how it looks its about how it works.

I have to agree with the advice from tandem jeremy, i suffered with terrible knee aches until i read the table technique in a mag, i tried it and got immediate relief, don't do it in jeans or trousers though wear your usual riding gear.

[i]but was seeking help climbing etc[/i]

Get fitter.
SPDs do not give you a power advantage unless you have muscles popping out of every part of your leg as virtually noone actually pulls up with them on each pedal stroke for the vast majority of the time.
Handy for certain steep sections or moves to get you out of trouble.

Oh and yes I do ride SPDs the majority of the time. Flats do rock hugely though especially on full sussers.

Yeh I do need to get fitter. Doesn't everybody except the select few. I love my flats on the downs to. Still sure I'll come to love my spds just in the teething stage. If not, I'll just go back to my flats but I can see the advantages.

As for release tension it depends, racers tnd to have them set very loose so that they have to realy twist a long way, pevents them coming out accidentalty. Newer riders should have the reslease angle set smaller so you can pull out of them if needed.

This is more to do with float than release tension.

In the case of eggbeater style pedals, 'advanced' riders can choose to run a larger float angle.. this gives the rider more motion across the surface of the pedal. If you imagine you are really laying the bike over in the corners, to keep your body over the tyres, you've go to get those feet around on the pedals.

On shimano spd's its definitely worth starting off with loose tension so you can reduce any clipped in falls.
I found with loose shinamo tension i'd pull out of the pedals when pedaling (remember that TDF time trial when Lance pulled his foot out of his pedals? - not that i'm suggesting i'm a bionic man)
Also with Shimano spd's I found that any foot contact with rocks on technical sections would result in me becoming unclipped, however for riders new to cipless pedals, spd's are super in that they offer great feedback between pedal and rider. 'click' you're in - 'click' you're out and you can really feel the point at which the cleat is about to activate he release on the pedal. With Crankbros, you dont get that definate feedback at all but I prefer how these pedals work for my knees and that i get less incidental releases when riding.

I disagree strongly with this

SPDs do not give you a power advantage unless you have muscles popping out of every part of your leg as virtually noone actually pulls up with them on each pedal stroke for the vast majority of the time.

Since I went from toeclips to spds you I can clearly see a change in the muscle development of my legs - the muscle on the front outer aspect of the shin (which pulls your toe up] is clearly bigger and more defined so I must be pulling up as well as pushing down - actually more likley pedalling in cicles. Its clearly much more efficient even for an amateur bimbler like myself.

Telemaster - if you don't want the correct shoes because of the way they look you are putting form ahead of function which to me appears truly foolish. If function is identical then for sure choose the one that looks best - but in this case a stiff soled shoe works far better - obviously and immediately. One always looks an utter idiot in MTB garb anyway and they get covered in mud - you are the one who needs to get real. Don't be so offensive - we are not all bike tarts who prefer form over function.

Edit : - the table tip was culled from on here - I claim no credit for it

I've pretty much always thought that the whole point of stiff soled shoes and SPD's was the fact that the [i]entire[/i] foot-bed of the shoe "becomes" the pedal. Which in turn means that one can totally relax ones feet and toes, as you're not relying on them to provide tension to keep your foot in one place. Really helps on longer rides to ward of leg aches and tension cramps. Also, obviously it gives one a huge area on which to push, and stand.

I wasn't the one being offensive. You were being offensive when I came on looking for advice and you sounded demeaning which nobody likes. Of course I haven't bought shoes that only look good and have no function.There's nothing wrong with the shoes. The mp66 shoes have very good reviews and have very stiff soles. My comment was about not liking the look of most of the shoes in the range. You are right with your disagreement of tomlevel's comments in my opinion. Thats one of the major advantages of spds.

Telemaster - looks like we misunderstood each other then. I did not intend to be offensive. Nae worries.

Yeh no worries man. You gave me some good advice. Gonna wait till I'm by myself to sit on the table though haha. People will think I'm mad. Thanks once again. I'll let you know how I get on next time. Cheers

You can apply roughly 25% more power using clipped pedals that flats, and your pedal stroke can be smoother.

You have roughly 32.7% more control in flats.

Release tension: I've been using Shimano pedals for 5 years and have always kept mine loose and never come out by accident - possibly this means I don't pull up enough!

SPDs do not give you a power advantage unless you have muscles popping out of every part of your leg as virtually noone actually pulls up with them on each pedal stroke for the vast majority of the time.
Handy for certain steep sections or moves to get you out of trouble.

Thats funny. every time i have tried flats i end up pulling my feet of the pedals as i always pull up on the pedals when climbing or accelerating for me its the whole point of being atttached to the pedal.

Its clearly much more efficient even for an amateur bimbler like myself.

unfounded. You cannot get away from the fact that the foot lifting muscle is always going to be way smaller than the body lifting muscle. As for 'efficiency' might not extra bulk on the main pushing muscle be more efficient than on the smaller muscle ? I think it would be very hard to determine, or there might be no difference whatever. You should not confuse subjective feelings with objective fact. If you like the sensation of pulling up on the pedals, that's all well and good, and in many ways your mental states are more important than mechanical details 🙂

When using flats is there a little bit of downward pressure on the up stroked required to keep the foot in contact with the pedal?

IIRC hamstrings should be about 2/3 the strength of quads so when used correctly could be of benefit when cycling but I'm not sure how much of this power can be utilised.

[i]Thats funny. every time i have tried flats i end up pulling my feet of the pedals as i always pull up on the pedals when climbing or accelerating for me its the whole point of being atttached to the pedal. [/i]

Technique. The more you use them you'll stop using SPD techniques for riding on them and your muscles will develop differently also. When I go to flats from a long period without using them my shins hurt.

[i]When using flats is there a little bit of downward pressure on the up stroked required to keep the foot in contact with the pedal?[/i]

No. The weight of your leg will hold it there. Your more likely to use the muscle on the upstroke to take pressure off the pedal so you aren't pushing it up with the leg putting the power in. (Goes for both SPDs and Flats)

simonfbarnes - Member

Its clearly much more efficient even for an amateur bimbler like myself.

unfounded. You cannot get away from the fact that the foot lifting muscle is always going to be way smaller than the body lifting muscle. As for 'efficiency' might not extra bulk on the main pushing muscle be more efficient than on the smaller muscle ? I think it would be very hard to determine, or there might be no difference whatever. You should not confuse subjective feelings with objective fact. If you like the sensation of pulling up on the pedals, that's all well and good, and in many ways your mental states are more important than mechanical details [:-)]

Merely going on the fact that I can clearly see muscle development on the front of my leg that pulls the toe up since riding SPDs. Clear objective evidence that I am using more muscles with SPDs than wth flats

I saw more muscle development around the front of my shin area when I spent most of a year riding flats on singlespeeds and full sus bikes.