[Closed] Thinking about quitting commuting on the road. Sensible idea or MTFU ?

It keeps my blood warm, and shouting and ripping wing mirrors off is a great anger reliever I find.....

Some days I feel exactly the same. However much I try to think ahead, think for them, 'claim my lane', ride high, keep good observations, keep calm etc etc, every single day sees a number of motorists (particularly bus drivers, minicabs and taxi drivers) who are deliberately aggressive and bullying to the point of being dangerous.

If I've shouted "AM I FU55ING INVISIBLE OR SOMETHING?" once I've shouted it a thousand times.

The alternative is car and train. Bad for the environment, bad for my pocket, bad for me.

Oh don't start me on that one 👿 Keep it going the good days make up for the bad and as the older you get you remember it less 🙂

I know where I should be on the road and how to 'look after myself '

have you had training? some people i know are adamant they know what they are doing but really bring it on themselves!

Ride more 'aggressively', own your lane.

Or try a blonde wig?

http://www.bikebiz.com/news/24362/Want-to-be-bike-safe-Don-a-wig-not-a-lid

We all have days where just getting to work in one piece is an acheivement.
For me, yesterday was bad (bus drivers), today was really nice.

Skills day, all the rage atm 😮
Seriously, you may think you know how to ride on the road but if you are having so many problems then maybe you need to re-assess your riding style.
Up here we have a Cycling Scotland Scheme which is as much for adult cyclist as it is for kids cycling prof. The English version I believe is Bikeability.
It is OK reading the Franklin book but like all things may need some pointers out on the road from someone who has been trained in the "skill"

Having said that I nearly got T-boned at a mini roundabout last week, but I anticipated it and missed the car by inches whilst giving the driver the verbals through his open window 👿
In over 30yrs commuting, morning, noon and night I only have 3 or 4 near misses a year.

Sorry, you asked for suggestions and all I did was emphathise.

Suggestion. I have been thinking about

a) getting an airzound because when people sound their horn at each other, the hornee (?) gets a bit embarrassed 'cos everyone looks

b) getting a helmet cam - proper evidence of what has happened

c) keeping some kind of incident diary and

d) trying to get the CTC, LCC, Boris and other interested groups together with a view to an ad campaign highlighting the need for courtesy to other road users - particularly vulnerable ones.

Seems to me that car drivers feel they have "earned" a right to be on the road and drive how they want because the buy "car tax". Myth on two counts, firstly it goes into general taxation and roads are paid for by general taxation (so cyclists on their way to work are paying into the same tax account) and second, I do pay bloody road tax - on a car I am not using very much, so by their reckoning surely I have more right than them when on my bike? (I don't believe this, just turning their argument round on them)

I felt the same way, even started to catch the bus to work for a week.

Soon changed my mind after watching cyclist zip past the bus stuck in traffic & getting to work late and grumpy!

trailofdestruction - have you got option on the route to take in?

I find varying the route in helps if you can.

Can you change your route slightly?

My current commute is probably about the slowest cycling route that could be devised between my home and my office, but contains only 2 spots where I am remotely likely to irritate anyone simply by being on the road. This cuts down the hassle and is still quicker than any other means of transport.

Also, you don't say how far your trip is, but my near-misses happen when I'm lycra'ed up and going fast. They never happen when I'm pootling along in my street clothes, even if I'm taking the rash and provocative step of wearing a helmet. 🙂

I'd echo the above - change your route? Are you really riding as well as you can in traffic?

Where is the commute & how long?

[b]thomthumb[/b] , no I havn't, and you are right that I can't [i]really[/i] say that I know what I'm doing if I havn't done a proper course, BUT, I ride defensively, claim my lane, wear high viz, look over my shoulder, keep my awareness high, etc. Ok, I havn't read cycle craft cover to cover, but regardless, it seems that somedays, the folks in cars really don't care.

This morning, I was coming up to a blind left hand corner, a car was approaching from the rear, with plenty of distance between me and the oncoming car, I pulled into the middle of the road (quiet country road) to claim my space. Instead of slowing down and waiting for, oh 10 seconds, the driver HAD to get past me, pull in sharply, brake rapidly and go round the corner far too quick still on the wrong side of the road. If they had waited for 10 seconds they could have got past me on the nice long, straight bit round the corner. WTF ???

A week ago, I got home drank an entire bottle of wine, and was ready to strip the commuter into bits and put it on classifieds. I'm only carrying on cause I'm doing Keilder (gulp) and need to put the miles in.

I find the positives outweigh the downsides. I do however commute in at 6am of a morning so the roads are quiet and my home leg is back from Solihull station where I have to say the drivers seem to be very thoughtful to the point that you feel like waving them to overtake you as they crawl along.

Panniers on a drop bared bike, I now get 10x the room drivers used to give me.

Must be like the women getting more room thing. Diddery old men on tourers get it too.

There used to be some cycling jerseys with “support your local [b]Police[/b]” printed on them, the lettering of "police" being about 20 times larger than the rest of the print. It seems that having police printed on the shirts in big letters, kept motorists at a safe distance.

Happens regularly but I just anticipate that situation by listen to the engine noise and adjusting my position and speed accordingly thereby preventing a possible near miss.
Had a 4X4 skid to a halt one day when he thought he could squeeze between me and a traffic island, do`nt think he realised I was doing +20mph 🙄 which when on a road bike is probably the biggest problem a car driver has, assessing our speed 😯

Stick with and as others^^^^^have said change your route, change your style a bit maybe.

im with you on this. after a few incidents a couple of bumps, and a bike destroying take out on a major roundabout, i now wont commute by bike on the roads in winter.

(not to say i dont occasionally hop in by bmx on the pavements)

just wasnt worth it to me, id spend all weekend riding and trying to stay smooth/unijured only to get mullered by an old dear 'who hadnt seen me' or beeped at/pressured by the usual bmw driving nobs.

summer, spring and autumn i'll bike, but winter is jogging for me!

Sticking a kiddy trailer on the back of your commuter might help too.

There is a guy I see on my commute who has a high vis top with "POLITE" on the back, makes me giggle every time I see him 😉

every commute the odds on you getting killed increase.....if you believe that sort of thing

lol - like this:

[img] [/img]

Ranting is good to get it out of your system. I only ride in a few times a week and I'm lucky I have mainly country routes + canal towpath to work. That said I ride in WAAYY out of my way as the most direct route is a narrowish country road and I often see a rider (high vis, panniers, lights etc) getting stupidly buzzed for all the usual (can't be bothered to wait, can't judge the width of my car... blah blah) reasons.

All good advice above so maybe just reflect a bit, perhaps intersperse bike with other modes of travel for a while. Also there's no one mood to deal with it is there? Some days I'm giving it large to drivers who think it's fine to push me into the hedge, other days I stay chilled knowing I'm actually having a great ride and even their attempts to kill me are not going to spoil that. Stay with it. 🙂

Change your route or leave at a different time.
I once found there was a pattern in the traffic and how many confrontations i had depending on the time i was riding.

change your style a bit maybe.

What, like this ?

[img] [/img]

Might get more space on roundabouts 😀

lol ski, that is good. It would wind em up more when they pass you though!

I know where the OP is coming from. I use every cycle lane I can (shared with pedestrians) because it's just more relaxing.

MTFU is nothing to do with it. MTFU off road cos it's all in your hands, on the road even a pink micra convertible could kill you up.

liking the kiddy trailer idea. harder to park at destination mind you

I'd look at my route, if there's an easy way to get off busier roads or onto roads with bike paths then take it. I know it sounds like giving in but the way the situation is at the moment it's perhaps not a bad option (plus you get to extend your ride and get fitter for your race....

I'm very lucky where I commute, I have completely separated bike path for 80% of my 17km run and a city (Antwerp) full of people who, while sometimes impatient, more often than not show some empathy to cyclists, I think because so many of them ride bikes themselves. I used to commute in Beijing, which by that measure should be better ... but it wasn't.

Drivers are badly educated. This morning, I had two incidents where the drivers hadn't looked up the road far enough and had to pull in in front of me - one was a bus driver approaching a bus stop (FFS).

Advice I'd give?

- Always wear a helmet, just in case the worst happens
- Accept that drivers are numpties and assume they're going to do exactly what you don't want them to do
- Report near misses to the highway authority (so they can gather statistics on dangerous areas and they [u]might[/u] engineer us a solution)
- Consider getting the registation and reporting really dangerous occurances to the police (via the non-emergency number)

I like the panniers idea, I'm going to try that. Also might get an airhorn, just because.

Thanks for the replies, glad it's not just me that's peed off.

I am going to look at changing routes to see if I can find anything that avoids the worst/busiest bits. I'm 6'1 and 13 st and don't flinch easily, but getting passed by wagons on A roads at 50 mph is getting really old. There is a canal path which is a bog in winter, but fine in summer. It's a longer route, but more miles won't kill me. What tyres for... 😈

I always wear a helmet, just feels wrong without one, plus plenty of high viz and light when needed.

Yes, a proper road skills training course might well be a good idea, I'll look into it.

It's just the attitude of some folk amazes me. It's like they think we don't matter. I could rant at great length and use some real choice words, but.... is anybody really going to listen.

Stuff like [url= http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/west_midlands/8632920.stm ]this[/url] doesn't really make me anymore assured that the situation is changing.

I'll be 33 next month, it'd be nice to make it to 34.

Stick with it.

True, you might get hurt riding on the roads, but if you give up bike commuting part of your soul will surely die.

leave at a different time.

i find this makes a huge difference - there are a lot of angry people 15 minutes from the city centre at 12 minutes too 😉

i generally turn up for work at before 8:30 or after 9:15. when i get in 'on time' the driving is definately worse.

I'll be 33 next month, it'd be nice to make it to 34

The way things is going I don't know.

Tell me why are we so blind to see.
That the one's we hurt are you and me

Anyone know where I can get a POLITE hivis from?

rOcKeTdOg - Member

every commute the odds on you getting killed increase.....if you believe that sort of thing

Rubbish - Thats not how probability works

My advice - chill.
Ok so some dickhead nearly wiped you out? - laugh at him and his incompetence. " you got a driving license" Where from - a cereal packet?"
Someone got angry with you? Smile and ride on by. Wave to the angry ones that force thier way past you as you pass them and 30 other cars at the next jam. Refer to them as lemmings in boxes.

I don't always manage to do this but it does take a lot of the stress away if you can.

Some good insults - "hope yer next crap is a pineapple" is my fave thing to shout at idiots in cars.

~chill - laugh at them and their stupidity, anger and incompetence

I went out yesterday evening on my road bike and from the centre of Guildford to Sutton Green where I was meeting the others (2-3 miles tops) had three near misses - not bad considering that most of the road I took has a cycle lane!!! The low sun seems to confuse motorists; one of whom nearly rear ended one of us despite us all having rear lights flashing.
I am also convinced that riding a road bike in lycra, hi viz kit, wearing a helmet and riding at a reasonable speed places you in more danger (wasn't there a research project to back that up?). My anecdotal evidence is based on a bloke I see riding from Aldershot to Guildford every day at 2 miles an hour, wearing black ordinary clothes, no helmet, with fag power lights during the winter months etc etc and cars always slow down to pass him and give him a wide berth. Full-on roadies I see on the same journey all seem to be passed closely by cars at speed. Weird!!! Thisisnotaspoon's panniers idea also seems to be bourne out as there is a female commuter I see occasionally who has huge panniers (not a euphamism) and motorists always slow down and give her a lot of room.

I think part of driving training and testing for any vehicles should include a few hours on a bike in heavy traffic, might make drivers a bit more appreciative and aware of what it's like on 2 wheels then? And, if you can't ride a bike then you have to learn! ... I think there's a lot of drivers out there that probably haven't been on a bike for years before getting a car so they have no idea!

~chill - laugh at them and their stupidity, anger and incompetence

Well great, but that doesn't make it any safer.
A driver is in a very different frame of mind to a cyclist at 20mph. It's often not even personal to them, you're just an obstacle.

It doesn't make it any safer - but then its not actually dangerous anyway. chilling out and laughing at idiots in cars does remove some of the stress and angst that the OP is feeling

I'm loving commuting at the moment, and the odd idiot will not ruin it for me. I feel your pain, I have one dodgy 50mph junction to negotiate that I detest and can't make safer without actually stopping and becoming a pedestrian. I leave before 7 and come home after 6 most days, so I simply don't see the traffic as much. I also have off road options if I take an MTB, ride home last night was ****ing brilliant 🙂

Keep going, and pity the idiots getting angry in their expensive tin cans rather than yourself.

never wanted a hi vis before now... awesome.

[img] [/img]

Oh dear! I recognised Sue Archer from that photo! I'm doomed! 😕

Probability, I love it but it's hard to get your head around.

If something is given as a 1 in 7 chance (to make the example easy) it doesn't mean that you can ride your bike for 6 days and get squashed on the seventh. It means that every day there is a 1 in 7 chance.

Likewise, if you get squashed on Monday, there is still a 1 in 7 chance that you will get squashed on Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday etc etc.

I pulled into the middle of the road (quiet country road) to claim my space.

This may not always be a good idea. I tend not to do this sort of thing unless in crawling traffic or coming up to roundabouts/lights etc. It aggravates drivers a lot. Sometimes you just have you cede your road to drivers for your own safety - which shouldn't be necessary but sometimes just is.

I often pull over to let cars by in tight situations too as a goodwill gesture.

I've come to the conclusion that a near miss (which seems to be what you're describing) is nothing to get het up about. Obviously this means being super aware and making allowances for other road users but I find it's more relaxing than stressing about all those bad drivers out there. Expect the worst and you are chuffed when someone does you a favour / recognises your existence!

My 2p worth.
I believe in giving way to cars but only when appropriate and safe to do so. I will take my proper - car like - position in the road lane if I am changing direction.

I believe that cycling a little slower is far better for everyone. It allows you to sit up more making you more visible and more aware what's going on. You can make short sprints if you need to merge with traffic.
Also if you are more relaxed your adrenaline is not as high so you don't get as angry as quickly.

IMHO its much better to ride 'with' traffic on busy but slower roads than it is to ride beside traffic on quieter faster roads.

trailofdestruction if you are having near misses on a fairly regular basis then its time to either change the time you commute at vastly or STOP commuting on that route. No two ways about it if you are having regular near misses?

Also, if anyone gets angry regularly on their commute its raising your blood pressure and stress levels (you'll be naturally hyper-tense from start to finish or even just thinking about setting off).

You are cancelling out any health benefits.

It is better than the alternative, which is staying in the gutter and having some absolute tool trying to squeeze past you on a blind bend, just because they feel you are in their way and holding them up.

That's how I used to ride, and it nearly got me killed on more than one occasion. I ride in the middle of the road when it is not safe for traffic to get past me, and then pull over to let them past when it is safe to do so. Prime example is a very tight S bend on my route. It's bloody dangerous as it is, if I do not claim my space and force people to wait behind me until it is safe to pass, they will force me off the road trying to squeeze through far too narrow a gap and not think twice about it.

Been there, done that.

If it annoys them, tough luck. It's my road as well, and I have the right not to get pushed off it by impatient drivers.

Without knowing your route and cycling technique, I cant offer any advice, though it sounds like you're doing things right.
All i can add, is that for what its worth, I kind of enjoy the buzz of competing for space on the fastest , busiest roads, not only with the reasonable drivers, but the occasional bit of friction with the d**ks too.
You're 33? heh heh!, I'm five years older than that and trust me, it gets worse, in a couple of years you'll be searching for the most dangerous roads to commute on! 🙂

I'm not an angry cyclist, I used to be but found out it wasn't getting me anywhere. It's the bigger picture that's getting to me. It doesn't matter whether I'm in the city or the country, whether I'm going fast or slow, whether I'm doing a fast training ride or a slow pootle back from work, flat bar or drop bar, people don't seem to give a s**t. It's like they look at me from the comfort of their cars and go " oh christ, lets try and squeeze past this muppet as fast and close as possible to scare the cr@p out of him ". It's not me that's having near misses, I'm riding in a straight line on open road, it's the cars that are nearly missing me. It's like it's some sort of game for the inbreds, and as you can see, it's making me want to stop riding on the blacktop.

Sorry to vent my spleen. You are right, I shouldn't let it wind me up, I should take a deep breath and laught at the foolishness of others. I do have good days, but the bad ones seem to stick in my memory for longer. I remeber Victoria Pendleton complaining that she was sick of getting hassled in Manchester whilst trying to do training in the run up to the Olypics. Not just the amatuers that suffer I guess.

Whats your commute route in Manchester?

TandemJeremy - Member
rOcKeTdOg - Member
every commute the odds on you getting killed increase.....if you believe that sort of thing

Rubbish - Thats not how probability works

Whatever the probability of dying on your bike, the more time you spend cycling, the greater chance it will happen.

simples.

Fylde coast into Preston (may God have mercy on my soul) and back, about 22 miles round trip. Mixture of country roads and busy urban streets. I will admit that I'm not a fan of riding in fast moving heavy traffic anyway. I think the solution to my problem is putting dirt tyres on the bike, and dodging the spliff smoking chavs and endless piles of dog eggs on the canal path. At least they're easier to dodge.

EDIT : Just seen this on road.cc

http://road.cc/content/news/16770-round-world-adventurer-run-road-devon

Hope he gets well soon, and best of luck.

Al - What you and what RD are saying are two different things. Once again you leap in without understanding what is being said. What a surprise.

The probability of dying on a cycle commute is unaltered by the number of times you do it. Think of tossing a coin - even if you have tossed a coin 20 times and got heads each time the next coin toss is 50 / 50 heads or tails. So RD is wrong

You are also wrong as the benefits of experience mean that the more you cycle the less your risk per mile or per trip.

Do try to think straight before leaping it.

lol @ probability handbags 🙂

J0Ns right, I used to go balls out on the commute, full on sprint to and from work, I started doing a lot more mileage evenings and weekends so reigned it in a bit on commutes to save my legs and I get a lot less trouble now. Oh and I thought I used to ride primary position until I rode with a bike tutor who pointed out primary was another foot or two out from where I was riding, even less trouble now i know that.

Yes.. probability and likelihood are differet things, at least where mathematics is concerned.

As for road position - if I need to I try to inch out from the kerb just enough to plant doubt in the mind of the driver as to whether or not they can get through, without making it look like I am deliberately trying to holding them up. I appreciate of course this is not always possible and you may need to properly claim your position.

And I don't avoid annoying drivers for their benefit, I do it for my and other cyclists benefit.

TandemJeremy - Member
You are also wrong as the benefits of experience mean that the more you cycle the less your risk per mile or per trip.

You have a 0% chance of dying while cycling if you do not cycle. Ergo if you do cycle, the chance of dying while cycling increases - not as an average necessarily.

I thank you!

Apart from all the usual "precautions" to take when cycling in traffic i.e. defensive cycling and hi vis clothing, CTC membership is in my opinion well worth it. I know it may seem useless if you are fatally injured on your bike, but the best thing about being involved in an accident that wasn't your fault and the driver letting his bullying insurance firm loose on you only to have them squarely smacked down by a CTC QC is very satisfying. Case in point, I took a report from a dickhead motorist complaining about two cyclists, one apparently knocked his wing mirror off when he was setting off from lights, the driver slammed his brakes on and his mate went into the back of him. The driver gets out and chases the poor fella who went into the back and kicks the crap out of his bike, knackering the back wheel (as well as the front being bent). When I get there the driver points out a witness at the nearby Charlie Browns garage who tells me that the driver is a dickhead also and gives a statement to that fact. I managed to trace the affected cyclist who was looking at a £300-£500 bill and persuaded him to join CTC, and see if they would take his case on, they did. So motorist gets told by rob dogging main dealers that his V reg Vauxhall is a write off, and thinks he can get the cyclists to pay for it as his insurance firm have told him that as they went into the rear of him it is their fault. I never told him that I had traced the other cyclist and that he had joined the CTC and would now be getting far better legal services than his poxy insurance firm. Thought he could find that out himself. Brilliant advert for CTC is you ask me.

soulwood just to clarify a guy in a car gets rear ended by a cyclist and the dealer tells him it's a write off?

Luckily I've not had to make use of ctc 3rd party/legal team yet but reassuring to have it.

I used to know a guy who kept spent batteries in a basket on his handlebars that he would chuck at any car that pissed him off! Quite entertaining, but bit of a risky strategy methinks