im replacing the very heavy tyres on my enduro .
the rims are mavic 3.1 d tuebless and the tyres im taking off are tubless specific.
im putting a set of Michelin Mountain All-Terrain tyres on which are not tubeless.
do i need to use some sort of sealant or will they be ok with out it as the rims are proper tubeless jobbies??
cheers
steve
Might as well put some sealant in. Even if they inflate ok if you get minor nicks or holes they won't repair without the sealant.
non tubeless tyre will have porous sidewalls and will need sealant to sort this out. Have a look on the stans site for the wheel shaking instructions.
silly question, but dont tubeless tyres need sealant as well??? otherwise theyd still go down if a thorn goes through them?
(gonna be trying tubeless soon so getting as much info as i can ) 🙂
went ghetto tubeless today! (DT5.1's/Maxxis Single ply HRs')
Duck tape/valve from old tube/stans tire sealant!
So far so good but need to test them!
Not bad for £13
whats ghetto tubeless?
sadexpunk, proper tubeless don't need sealant to work like conversions do. Like you say though, a bit of sealant to help with thorns is no bad thing.
what selant would you recommend then people!!
you live and learn :-/ dont understand that at all. what if something goes through your tyre?? why doesnt it go down??
looked at that 'ghetto tubeless' section ta, and a question please. ok, so the inner tube is split, and overlaps the rim, and hopefully makes a good seal which can be trimmed later. and yes, a section of cut off inner would weigh about the same as proper rim tape. but surely when you pump it up, the air goes through the valve into er....a rim with no protection over the spoke holes? so cant air escape from there? or do you have rim tape over the spoke holes, with inner tube lining the tyre and providing seal? and sealant too?? in which case surely its no lighter than a tube?? and more faff??
what am i missing here? 🙂
nope, i understand the spoke hole thing. i was being thick. the rest stands 🙂
*bump*
still dont understand why a tubeless tyre doesnt need sealant? if it goes over a thorn which doesnt stay in the tyre, why doesnt the tyre go down?
??? you and me both???
in which case surely its no lighter than a tube?? and more faff??what am i missing here?
What you're missing is that it's not about saving weight.
well thats a consideration too isnt it? but yes id agree, no punctures is a better consideration 🙂
BUT WHY DOESNT THE TYRE GO DOWN WITHOUT SEALANT??
A UST tyre will go flat if pierced by a thorn which does not stay in the tyre. So people put sealant in there UST tyres to seal punctures. Not to seal the tyre to the rim. UST rims do not have spoke holes. At least my two sets of Crossmax SLRs don't.
grumm of course its about saving weight!!
if the tyres im taking off weigh 1.4 kgs each(which they do!!) and the tyres im putting on are 700g each ,thats weight saving isnt it??
Ghetto tubeless is [i]heavier[/i] than a decent tube and rim, but you can run lower pressures, never pinch flat, and ignore thorns. Also some people reckon it makes the tyres more supple but me, i don't know, can't tell the difference. I don't think it's better or worse mind, i think it's just different. I'm not that bothered by punctures so I went back to tubes on my standard rims, for me they're better.
A standard tyre on an UST rim should be lighter than a sensible tube, and gets all those advantages, so I think it is objectively better. Sealant definately needed though. These I'll leave tubeless.
And full on UST tyre + UST rim doesn't need sealant, but unless you never ride anywhere where there's anything sharp you'll want it anyway- the tyres tend to be tougher than non-UST tyres (that's why they're heavy) but they'll still puncture on thorns etc. Not for me, by either method, don't want the weight but again, that's a personal call.
Renton: "if the tyres im taking off weigh 1.4 kgs each(which they do!!) and the tyres im putting on are 700g each ,thats weight saving isnt it??"
Grumm was saying that ghetto tubeless isn't about saving weight, not your tyre swap, totally different things.
oh!!! my bad!!
must read properly before replying!!
soz grumm
right, so can i try and understand this tubeless thing before i give it a go in a week or so 🙂
1. all tyres, tubeless and non tubeless need sealant to stop punctures?
2. non-tubeless will also need the sealant to make a seal on the rims and to assist the porous material of these tyres?
3. i think ive got some 'tubeless stylee' rim tape covering my spoke holes (yellow tape), but they dont overlap the rim. are they the right rim tapes? or do tubeless rim tapes overlap the rim to make a better seal with the rims? (they havent got valves with them, just tape, used with tubes)
4. [url= http://www.justridingalong.com/?product=56 ]these[/url] are 'no tubes' rim strips. they look like inner tubes. so must probably weigh the same? are they just strips of rubber with valves incorporated? in which case why would you buy them over the 'ghetto' split inner tubes? neater?
thats it for now 🙂
Notubes rim strips weigh about 50-60 grams including the valve, so less than most inner tubes.
But a 20" tube presumably weighs less than a mtb tube, and you cut away quite a bit of it.
When doing ghetto with 20" bmx tubes, you trim away half the rubber where it protrudes from the rim. When you add sealant, the overall weight is about the same as just using 26" tubes with those tyres.
But...
You can use lighter tyres e.g.500-700g and they wont pinch flat even if you thrash them down pointy rocks
You wont get any thorn punctures
You can run pressures a bit lower for better grip but how low depends on how tough the sidewalls are.
But...
It can be a ball ache to do
If pressures are too low, it can burp and even de-rim.
Some sealants need topping up
Changing tyres is much more difficult
On balance, I like it.
i wouldnt be too fussed about the lower pressures. not my cup of tea. i prefer harder pressure and less rolling resistance/stickiness to comfort and grip 🙂
think ill give it a try, just not sure which way to go yet. ghetto, or 'buy all the kit' 🙂
what about the valves. i understand theyre already there on a cutaway inner tube, but what if ive already got rim tape and just need a removable valve. do i just cut one out of a tube? and how much of it would i be cutting off?
I reckon the tape you already have is probably just standard rim tape to stop an inner tube bursting on the sharp edges of the spoke holes. Think you will need a rim strip/tube or you could try using gaffer tape which apparently some people have had success with.
and what does this tape do? overlap the edges of the rim to help with a seal? if not, how does it help?
overlap the edges of the rim to help with a seal?
Yup.
I haven't tried the gaffer tape and valve method but it's sposed to work well. Stick your valve in the rim and then roll tape off a couple of times around the rim pushing it firmly into the U shape. It sounds more work than the BMX tube.
" harder pressure and less rolling resistance"
It's terrain dependant. Apparently, in most off road situations, lower pressure tyres offer lower resistance because they deform around very small bumps instead of you having to ride up and down them. I'm sure this is more-or-less counterbalanced by the drag of putting more rubber down! But at least you've got better rebound damping and grip, unless the tyres are squirming around corners. I guess there's an optimum. Tubeless allows you to play beyond the lower limits imposed by pinch punctures.
right, thanks for that. understand it a bit better now 🙂
and im probably right in thinking the rim tape makes a better seal cos its got a bit of 'squidge' so the tyre bead can dig into it a bit better than the metal surface of the rim? and any gaps will be small enough to be filled with sealant?
whereas with proper UST tyres theyll just be a perfect fit in the 1st place, so not need that bit of squidge?
(getting there now arent i) 🙂
Grumm: "But a 20" tube presumably weighs less than a mtb tube, and you cut away quite a bit of it."
Mine were pretty heavy, I guess there are heavy and light BMX tubes out there but these were thick like DH tubes, I didn't weigh them once cut down but they seemed heavier than my old tubes (95g or so). Plus sealant of course.
Went'ghetto'on my h/t last December & never had so much as a slight air leak,let alone a puncture,whereas I used to suffer from pinch flats before.
Also went tubeless on my f/s at the same time,using ust specific wheels (Crossmax ST),& the only puncture was in the Peaks 3 months ago when the worlds biggest thorn went through the back tyre,but by continuing riding & letting the sealant do its job,3/4 miles down the track,the hole was sealed.
No problems since.
Well worth converting imho.
I used Bonty Jones ACX with tubes, after going to tubeless they were much more supple, could be run at lower pressure without feeling draggy, and are more grippy.
I went from Hope XC's on Mavic X618's with Slime tubes to Hope Pro's on Stans 355 rims, yellow tape (as opposed to a heavier rimstrip) and Stans sealant, used the same tyres. Saved over 700 grams, and nearly all of that was the rim/innertubes/sealant, so where it matters the most. Wheels feel featherweight compared to the old ones!
For ultimate puncture protection you can't beat Slime tubes, my gf and I have been running them for five years between us, and have had about three punctures that didn't seal on the trail and needed repairing. We've both had tubeless with Stans for the last few months and have had three or four punctures in that time...still less that no protection at all though.
For ultimate puncture protection you can't beat Slime tubes, my gf and I have been running them for five years between us, and have had about three punctures that didn't seal on the trail and needed repairing.
I've had about the same hit rate with normal tubes (until I put lightweight tyres on)?! Slime tubes are so damned heavy I'd not inflict them on anyone, let alone my GF - I'd rather stop and fix their puncture for them!