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If your dog is ruining other's fun & being a potential danger by virtue of you letting it off the lead & run round - whose really being selfish? The "only being friendly & chill out line" doesn't really wash. Take responsibility of your pet.
FWIW I've had 7 dogs & was a professional dog trainer.
if its a mountain bike trail then dogs should be on it. Dog should be under control at all times. If the dog is running after bikers then it's not under control and should be kept on a lead.
"Sounds like no harm was done the guy was having a nice day out with his dog, it ran in front of you but nothing happened. You got angry."
The dog caused the OP to come of his bike. I wouldn't call that "nothing happened". I'd be angry and I'm a dog owner dog lover 🐕 🐕.
This isn’t about Dogs at all, it’s just the usual rawr big man people slowing me down should move schtick with a slight twist.
For fun, reimagine the situation with road vehicles and make the dog a cyclist.
Also, reading back through the thread, a lot of people would have a much happier time if they realised that ‘trail centres’ and ‘private race tracks’ aren’t the same thing at all, and that there’s every legal right for there to be a picnic in the middle of a tabletop or pushchair in a berm etc in a public forest even if it is stupidly dangerous from our point of view. Being a ‘bike trail’ doesn’t alter the legal status of a patch of public forest no matter how many signs you put up trying to tell people to stay off them.
Private venues like BPW are where you need to go if you want to go flatout without risk of walkers or whatever.
For fun, reimagine the situation with road vehicles and make the dog a cyclist.
So, for an equivalent, it would be the cyclist jumping off the pavement in front of a car.
Idiot cyclist.
This isn’t about Dogs at all, it’s just the usual rawr big man people slowing me down should move schtick with a slight twist.
Of course it is.
Came up fast behind a Staffy on a downhill run once. I was travelling at a serious rate of knots and I swear the dog was hauling ass as well. He/she turned round and looked at me mid sprint and pulled over to let me past.
Kudos to the dog. Met the owner of the dog a bit further down and congratulated him.
Still makes me smile that dog giving me a glance like, yeah no bother pal on you go.
If there was such a thing as dogtrackworld, there would be a thread on it by Fido,slating a slow mtber for ruining his Strava time.
Maybe. 😉
Or that you cant walk anywhere without stepping on a discarded energy gel wrapper
Section 2 of the Dangerous Dogs Act - a dog must be "under control" at all times in a public place.
/Thread
Says it all.
Yeah, basically that sign says “newsflash, other people exist, so, don’t be a dick”
not a bad motto to live by.
Says it all.
Not really hence why the council felt the need to have the second part of the sign.
I do slow down and watch out for people and dogs when on shared paths. However I have had a couple of emergency brake situations when someones ill trained mutt has run out of the undergrowth right in front of me. Neither of those times I was riding fast since I was passing (or about to pass) its owners.
Trail centre guide for dog owners - dont be a prick and take your creature elsewhere for exercise.
The woods guide for bike riders - dont be a prick and expect other people to also be in the woods.
If you were in Wharncliffe Woods then you are lucky it was only a dog. It's not a trail centre and attracts all sorts. We have come across horses, motorbikes, families, walkers in large groups as well as dog walkers, all using the same paths as riders are. Over the years some bike riders in the woods have earned us all a bad reputation, rightly or wrongly, for been unconsiderate to other users. If it was up to the horse riders we would have be banned from using it a long time ago. It's not so long ago that someone's van was ridden over by a motorbike after they had been upset. Walkers have now started putting obstacles in the paths towards the craggs end to slow the bikes down.
The dog owners that I have chatted with have been considerate in keeping them off the down hill tracks at the bottom of the woods and also on the Greno down hills on the opposite side of the road.
When ever we ride the Wharncliffe side it's always with caution as to who or what will be round the next bend.
Maybe its time to ban bikers from anywhere not specifically for them , only it was another biker letting his dog run amok
Just about to go and check as someone in the pub just mentioned it says no dogs or dogs must be kept on leash. On the gate onto that section.
Does it say bikes are allowed on the section?
You know just for the sake of avoiding hypocrisy.
Were you on a public ROW?
Firstly I cannot condone harming any animal, with the only exception being if it is hurting/attacking someone.
I’m a dog owner and a cyclist and as far as I’m concerned dogs should be under control at all times and the owner is responsible for that dog at all times. I have not come across many dogs that are actually “under control” when off the lead.
If I have read the op’s second post correctly the dog caused him to fall off his bike, As a cyclist i would have been pissed as well. As a dog owner I would be horrified if my dog had caused anyone to have an accident and my only response would of been to apologise profusely not blame the cyclist.
As a cyclist I always try to be curtious to other trail/forest users by slowing down, making a noise to warn that I am coming and giving others a wide birth.
As a a dog owner I always try to be curtious to other trail/forest users by ensuring my dog is on the lead by my side when someone passes or I move to the side of the track to let them pass.
Oh and I live in the Forest of Dean which has a large and varied amount of forest users.
Oh and I live in the Forest of Dean which has a large and varied amount of forest users
fair point, the rest of us live in places that don't have many dogs or bicycles
Bikes ruin a dog walk.
Dogs ruin a bike ride.
Enjoy them separately.
Were you on a public ROW?
A bridleway, lots of horses go down it judging by the tracks , to be honest would a horse have bolted and trampled the dog , cows and sheep often in those fields
What a bunch of Stava loving, dog hating tiny men unt©S 😉
As a cyclist I always try to be curtious to other trail/forest users by slowing down, making a noise to warn that I am coming and giving others a wide birth.As a a dog owner I always try to be curtious to other trail/forest users by ensuring my dog is on the lead by my side when someone passes or I move to the side of the track to let them pass.
In 21st Century Britain, trying is usually not good enough.
Is there a definition of "under control"?
I think if you are riding in public woodland you are sort of siht out luck! Yes it's unfortunate said dog caused you to fall off and I would be gutted and apolagetic if my dog caused that, would it have made a difference if a deer had ran out?
At a trail centre would be a different matter.
Is a dog running through the woods out of control? Arguably if you can't stop if something gets in the way are you out of control?
Guess I'm saying it's not as clear cut as everyone is making out. Think we all have valid points in some ways
would it have made a difference if a deer had ran out?
Yes. One is a wild animal the other is a pet. I would expect any responsible owner to keep the pet under control and so not get in the way of other people. Whether thats just it running up and sticking its muddy paws on someone whilst the owner dribbles out "its only being friendly" or running in front of a bike and causing a crash.
Arguably if you can’t stop if something gets in the way are you out of control?
if said thing is sitting in the middle of the trail then yes. If it dives in front of you even after you slow down and give it space then no.
As a thought experiment. Consider you are cycling past someone on a shared used path.
If I am walking along in a straight line and you hit me then clearly you are being an idiot.
If you try and go past me giving plenty of space but I then dive into your way then clearly I am the idiot.
Short of stopping and pushing the bike there would be no easy way of avoiding the accident and even then you would only minimise the damage caused.
Grow up and chill out you big baby :-).
I believe TJ is the forums resident expert if you need any tips on kicking the crap out of over-friendly miniature poodles.
'In 21st Century Britain, trying is usually not good enough.'
I'd say just trying is a big improvement over quite a lot of people, unfortunately.
Damn, it appears to be Section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act 1991, and a quick Google threw up this, which at least confirms I knew the details if not the section - itr appears to be quite a low threshold
<span style="display: inline !important; float: none; background-color: transparent; color: #5e5f62; font-family: 'Open Sans'; font-size: 14px; font-style: normal; font-variant: normal; font-weight: 300; letter-spacing: normal; line-height: 22.4px; orphans: 2; text-align: left; text-decoration: none; text-indent: 0px; text-transform: none; -webkit-text-stroke-width: 0px; white-space: normal; word-spacing: 0px;">Under section 3 of the Dangerous Dogs Act an owner, or a person in charge of a dog, commits an offence if the dog causes reasonable apprehension to a person that they will be injured, whether or not they actually are injured. Unlike most offences in English law no criminal intent or recklessness is required for liability to arise and a person can therefore be guilty of an offence even if their dog was on a lead and had never behaved in such a way before. </span><b></b><i></i><u></u>
You lot need to lighten up..... Is it that serious? Really?
It was a dog doing what dogs do, it just so happened you were both in the same place at the same time. You and the dog both have an equal amount of right to be there.
It doesn't sound like it was 'out of control', the dog has no concept of paths/routes and was being a dog, they have no intent above primeval instincts.
Look on the bright side, have a laugh about it..... All part of the experience.
I'm am a dog owner.... Mine are slightly ferel but well trained and come to command. I let them run as I KNOW they are obedient and non aggressive. If they came into the path of a bike, on public land, where they have every right to be, then that would be a random and unfortunate occurrence.... Life is full of them.
If you kicked my dog I'd return the favour...
I don't get dogs as pets, in fact I go so far as to say I think a majority of dog owners now leave sh*t lying and allow the dog to leap all over me excitedly. This I don't like. Dogs I like, I just wouldn't have one.
I slow down around them, most seem to take a reaction to bikes, either excitement or fear, and just don't get me rolling along.
The only time I would harm any animal is if I was threatened. Twice I have done - once when one repeatedly attacked a friends I was with dog, once when it was nipping at me even when I got off a bike. Even then there was much bellowing and attempt at scaring pooch off before I went for it.
As others have said, it is irresponsible behaviour of the owner (dogs and bikes don't mix well IMO) but life has bigger issues. Slow down, roll by, move on.
some ****t brought his collies on the Real Ale Wobble one year – 500 riders going down steep muddy welsh stuff and these two poor dogs were in the middle of a group of people, people falling off left right and centre, nearly ran over them twice.
Hope it didn't affect your race result to badly.😚
TBF If you choose to ride in the middle of a big bunch of people that only ever dig a bike out of the shed once a year to do an event that's more about drinking than riding you really can't complain about any kind of standard...
"I KNOW they are obedient and non aggressive."
I'm sure I've heard that before somewhere.
Sort of playing devils advocate I know but it's an interesting debate.
If my dog was running in public woodland where there are no sanctioned trails and it got in a riders way I would be apologetic about the situation and not a dick but I would not consider my dog at fault. It' just an unfortuate accident. Equally I wouldn't consider a dog running in woodland to be out of control.
At an actual trail centre/ official trails I think it's a different matter. Incidently i take my dog riding if I'm just on a bridle way to make her tired but never properly riding. It' almost more an excuse for me to st a couple miles in!
I'd hate to be picky but your dog doesn't have rights.
You certainly don't have the right to allow it infringe on other people's enjoyment / safety in public spaces.
Perhaps if the likes of you were more aware of your responsibilities as a dog owner, and less dismissive of other people this thread wouldn't exist.
The same can however be said for a lot of mountain bikers...but that's a thread of another day.
You certainly don’t have the right to allow it infringe on other people’s enjoyment / safety in public spaces.
Not a dog owner but I love seeing dogs out in the woods when I'm out on a ride.
Always stop and give them a quick stroke/ play with them for a short while.
Met some really nice people/ dogs doing this. It also helps to bridge the gap between some of the more grumpy bikers/dog walkers.
Again the arrogance and selfishness of some biker/dog owners fails to surprise me.
Get up earlier walk your dog first then go riding, then you won't p1ss anyone off with your out of control status symbol.
mark snookThe endless piles of poop on my street, local park, graveyard, school sports pitch (yes really), the fact the last three folk I called out on thier dog poop being left didn't have bags on them, the fact that one of the top three barriers I face weekly in getting kids outdoors is the amount of dog poop in urban areas begs to differ.
When I say majority, that's still only 51%.... But I do think it's over half now.
they have no intent above primeval instincts.
Which is why its your job to keep the dog under control.
I let them run as I KNOW they are obedient and non aggressive
If you check the law it doesnt matter what you KNOW. It matters what the person who your dog approaches thinks.
It really shouldnt be a difficult idea. If your dog is unpredictable keep it under control.
If a dog is on a trail and moving in a consistent manner I will go round it. If it suddenly does a suicide dash under the wheels from behind a tree then that isnt random and unfortunate thats a badly trained dog.
Dog shit is probably less of a problem now than it used to be (at least round here).
I think it's become socially acceptable to be seen out and about with a bag of poo in your hand, but also socially unacceptable to not clean up after your dog.
I'm sure there are people who do leave shit lying around and there is no excuse for that at all. I always pick it up and take it. Sometimes I even pick up other edit owners shit too. It illegal to not carry poo bags I Think?
I get all your arguments but ride your bike earlier before other people are in the woods? I don't think it's dog owners being self important. I think everyone in this thread is guilty of that.
'I’d hate to be picky but your dog doesn’t have rights.
You certainly don’t have the right to allow it infringe on other people’s enjoyment / safety in public spaces.
Perhaps if the likes of you were more aware of your responsibilities as a dog owner, and less dismissive of other people this thread wouldn’t exist'
How about you riding your bike in a public space is infringing on my enjoyment of walking my dog and putting myself and my dog in danger.
If you would take your bike, yourself and your self righteous ego off to a trail centre then we would all be happier 🙂
Taking responsibility for ones actions is tough I know. They have however invented something to assist you to keep your dog under the necessary level of control it's called...
A lead.
Happy to help
Also I'd like to point out that self righteous ego is actually not being an ignorant moronic ****.
Some trail dogs are great. Some are just chaos on legs. It's not their fault, it's their damn fool owners for taking them out into an environment where the dog's not safe and they can't look after it so I feel sorry for the doggo and yep I've told some owners off when they're doing it wrong. But when it's going well it's such a lovely thing to see.