[Closed] There were no girls riding bikes where I grew up

.

deliberately trying to get a rise.

I believe the term is trolls and agree best to not waste any more typing on them.

No people are interested in a debate, and what they get instead is called names.

No they aren't.

So,there – I’ve actively stopped doing something that society deems men should do thanks to seeing someone in my youth who bucked societal norms, and have started doing something as an adult that I wish I’d had the opportunity to do as a youth but didn’t because it wasn’t seen as normal for my gender and I didn’t see anyone of my gender doing it.

That's great, overcome your conditioning and do the things you want to do. That's exactly what I'm advocating.

I get that, but the main thing that's being advocated is a removal of the societal norms so that in the future people don't grow up conditioned to think that certain activities aren't for them due to their gender/race/etc, and thus don't have any conditioning to overcome - do you get that?

do you get that?

I think his brain has exploded 😃😃😃😃

Outofbreath. The point I’m trying to make is that rugby, biking, wrestling, cars, mechanics/engineering isn’t a man thing and seeing, cooking, staying home and raising your children while hubby goes to work down t pit isn’t woman’s stuff. These are all just preconceived ideas that have gradually been put in place over the last however many decades/centuries.

But after reading your all your posts I’ve finally come to the conclusion that you either A) don’t quite get it,
B) are a troll or
C) just a massive bellend
So I’m going to give up trying to make you understand where I’m coming from.

Tootle pip.
Tom Kp

Ps - Molgrips seems to understand.

The point I’m trying to make is that rugby, biking, wrestling, cars, mechanics/engineering isn’t a man thing and seeing, cooking, staying home and raising your children while hubby goes to work down t pit isn’t woman’s stuff.

Of course they're not, nobody is saying they are. But there are people in this thread who used to regard them as such and say they do gender specific stuff themselves to this day *because* they thought they had thought they were gender specific in the past.

I'm saying the easiest solution to that is for them to do the stuff they want to do regardless of their previous gender assumptions about those activities.

You've been given on example of someone who thought horse riding was a female pursuit (which is a bit mad, my brother rides horses and male riders are commonplace, unremarkable. There are less female jockeys than male IME) and in later life has decided to do it in spite of his previois views. If he can do it, you can do it. Get a grip, put aside your predudice and quit the things you're doing because you think society expects it and start doing the things you want to do. Don't blame society for your life choices. Take responsibility for your own hobbies.

(Alternatively, if you think you genuinely like your hobbies and don't want to change them them then you might want to face the fact that other people feel the same way as you.)

As I touched on above I also think the cited examples of gender specific hobbies are terrible. Men in Horse riding are totally unremarkable, if you saw a bloke on a horse you wouldn't think it worthy of comment. Ditto women on bikes, I'm struggling to think of a woman who doesn't own and use a bike among my own neighbours and friends. Riding around my local area it's deffo 50/50 with many people riding as couples and in family groups. Kayaking was offered as an example as well - I kayak a lot - among the people I see there's a 50/50 split but I don't count them all so maybe that's wrong. My daughter has joined a kayak club this year - those numbers I can count and there's exactly 50/50 split - they allocate places in that ratio. I'm sure people could have come up with far better examples than those cited. Even rugby - the club's I'm familiar with all have one or two women's teams and 2/3 men's tears. I reckon on average that works out higher than 1/3 of the participants are female. There are far better examples.

Ffs out of breath, are you just deliberately trolling now..?

But there are people in this thread who ... say they do gender specific stuff themselves to this day *because* they thought they had thought they were gender specific in the past.

You’ve been given on example of someone who thought horse riding was a female pursuit (which is a bit mad, my brother rides horses and male riders are commonplace, unremarkable. There are less female jockeys than male IME)

<bangs head against brick wall>

I’m saying the easiest solution to that is for them to do the stuff they want to do regardless of their previous gender assumptions about those activities

Dear god, could you be more stupid?!!?!?!

But there are people in this thread who … say they do gender specific stuff themselves to this day *because* they thought they had thought they were gender specific in the past.

Literally nobody has said that..

Here's someone saying it: "I wish I’d had the opportunity to do as a youth but didn’t because it wasn’t seen as normal for my gender and I didn’t see anyone of my gender doing it."

you’ve actually proven my point in a way – because you knew someone of your gender who rode horses, it wasn’t ever presented to you as something that wasn’t for your gender.

Not really, I'm saying I think horse riding is a very poor example of a gender specific pass time and I explained why. If people think otherwise fair enough, the specific examples make no difference to anything under discussion.

Is it just me or have you just quoted someone saying the exact opposite of what you have claimed they have said? As in you're claiming that someone has said that they DO things because of conditioning by quoting someone saying that they DID NOT DO something because of conditioning?

As someone who has never felt the need to see someone of the same gender doing something that I fancy having a go at or have it presented to me as a choice I find this thread very confusing.

I thought society had moved forward quite a lot since the 60s and 70s when I was a kid. But after reading this thread I think there are more worrying issues than gender equality being raised here.

Is it just me or have you just quoted someone saying the exact opposite of what you have claimed they have said? As in you’re claiming that someone has said that they DO things because of conditioning by quoting someone saying that they DID NOT DO something because of conditioning?

You're right, I meant not do in my original post. Not sure it makes any difference, if they've been conditioned not to do horse riding by definition they must be doing something else that suits their conditioning better, unless they spent the time they would have spent horse riding sitting still in a darkened room.

I think this is where your argument is failing though.
Your premise appears to be that people are ONLY doing the things they do because they are conditioned to do them. When the reality is that it is more likely that people are conditioned to perceive a set of options, and then pick from them. If, as per the above example the options presented to a male were MTB/football/rugby/competitive drinking, but the male in question was discouraged from horse riding, it doesn't actually mean that they don't enjoy MTB. It just means that they may have chosen to do horse riding AS WELL AS something else. Or it may have replaced some other hobby. There is no logical reason as you keep asserting that if a man wishes to take up knitting, he must give up football, or cycling, or hitting people in the face after 8 pints of Stella. The fact that you keep insisting that everyone must give up everything that they do and choose another subset of hobbies instead suggests that you actually believe that there are subsets of hobbies that are male and female.

Ah, the old "I've never experienced it so therefore there isn't a problem" defence.. 🤣

If you grew up in an environment where you had no influences on what was or wasn't expected of you or open to you due to your gender, or were immune to those influences then bully for you. But those influences are still extant, still subconscious, and still insidious. They also apply to not only your gender, but your ethnicity, social class, sexuality, and more. One of the most important things that can be done to reduce this is to make sure that kids are exposed to media showing people who are like them having experiences that previously they may have perceived as unavailable. See: normalisation of gay relationships and romances in film and on TV, etc.

This is really not that hard to understand.. 🤦‍♂️

To summarise while trying to type on a tiny phone screen:

The general premise that you appear to be arguing against is that society presents an almost subconscious set of choices to individuals of male and female pursuits. Thus some feel excluded from following particular pursuits that are in the "wrong" category.

E.g. I am given the choice of apple, orange or banana. My sister is given the choice of grapes, raspberries or beetroot. If I choose apple, even though I would quite like some raspberries, that doesn't actually mean that I don't like apples, oranges, or bananas. It just means I don't get raspberries because they are not on offer

Can I suggest a little light reading of Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez?

Your premise appears to be that people are ONLY doing the things they do because they are conditioned to do them.

No. I think people are saying that conditioning is a significant factor for large gender disparities in take up of pass times/interests/hobbies. Not the only factor.

There is no logical reason as you keep asserting that if a man wishes to take up knitting, he must give up football, or cycling, or hitting people in the face after 8 pints of Stella. The fact that you keep insisting that everyone must give up everything that they do and choose another subset of hobbies

Yeah, no need to give up anything. Just do exactly what the horse riding guy did, take up the stuff you fancy regardless of whatever conditioning you think you've had. ...but by definition if you do more of one thing you will tend to do less of other things. If you spend more time reading chick-lit you're gonna have less time to make the airfix models of spitfires you've been (partially) conditioned to do.

Ok, we seem to be getting somewhere. So if you are saying there's no need to give up anything, why were you insisting to an earlier poster that they should sell their bikes, stop posting on single-track and instead join Mumsnet and start reading "chick-lit" (I assume that is the author you were referencing, not familiar with their work. But again, clearly referencing "chick-lit" is not going to discourage males from exploring their work is it?)?

Why did you insist they would have to leave Single-track and post only on Mumsnet? Why not both?

And yes, you are correct, people are saying that conditioning plays a large part in the choices people believe are open to them.

What you appear to be arguing back though is that people cannot be enjoying any of the choices they have selected from the options given to them, purely because they may also have enjoyed the options of thngs that were believed to be not available to them.

I'm sorry. I couldn't see past the hot pants the girls were wearing.....

Blah blah blah.... Yeah, more girlz is good.

@idiotdogbrain Was your last comment aimed at me? If so, I wasn't offering a defence for anything. Of course I am aware that inequalities exist I just think it could be tackled at a more fundamental level.

outofbreath

Not really, I’m saying I think horse riding is a very poor example of a gender specific pass time and I explained why. If people think otherwise fair enough, the specific examples make no difference to anything under discussion.

Horse riding is perhaps a very good example of why certain people do certain things, it just has little or nothing to do with gender.

I grew up on skank estates, I for reasons I don't remember really wanted a horse (probably the books I was reading).
I'm pretty sure the reason I didn't get a horse had nothing to do with my gender and more to do with not having enough food or heating for the 3 of us without a horse.

My mate Martin (primary school) was always the smallest in the year ... he actually dreamed of being a jockey.

My mate Neil (secondary) lived on a farm and though they weren't well off had a horse in the family... again this is hardly rocket science is it?

idiotdogbrain

Ah, the old “I’ve never experienced it so therefore there isn’t a problem” defence.

Erm.. perhaps because that seems to be the exact point being missed that OOB is making.
It just doesn't fit the narrative.

.. lets say girls in the UK have no peers for DH ? (oh - oops )
or Why didn't Jolanda Neff (or Nino for that matter) take up DH? (In the case of Jolanda earlier)

is this because of their specific genders ?

What about Maren Lundby ... does she do Ski jumping because its a 'women's sport' or because the Norwegian Ski Federation pour 95% (whatever it is this year) of all funding into ski jumping?

Or to put it another way, why did the Jamaicans give up bob sleigh or where is Edwina the Eagle?
Or in terms of MTB gender equality how couldn't we get a womens rider to the WC with Tahnee and Rachel out through injury?

I thought society had moved forward quite a lot since the 60s and 70s when I was a kid. But after reading this thread I think there are more worrying issues than gender equality being raised here.

To put that in context ?
The issue is being misrepresented ...
We couldn't get a woman to the DH world cup because BC wouldn't pay... pure and simple.
If DH was an Olympic sport they'd have been all over it.

The reason no-one M/F I grew up with rides horses is because it's an elitist sport with a high cost of entry.

The reason I did martial arts, fell running, climbing, caving, kayaking and bikes were simply down to availability and with the only exception of being near 50/50 on caving where there were definitely more males and kayaking where there were definitely more females. (NE lancs 1970's)

If I look at my sons friends today I'm pretty sure if I actually totted up more than 50% of his MTB friends we ride with are female.

The only people I hear objecting to girls riding MTB are not men but women and I say that in all seriousness. Mothers, sisters and grandmothers even ... I have never to my recollection heard a bloke say "girls shouldn't be doing that" but I have heard it from countless mothers.

I can also say that until this year my son never thought if the people he were riding with were M/F either and the only reason he seems to have now noticed is because his hormones started to kick in and he seems to have has developed a preference for riding with (hanging out around) girls.

Horse riding is perhaps a very good example of why certain people do certain things, it just has little or nothing to do with gender.

Apart from the fact that the majority of horse riders are female of course.

I live in horse riding land, neighbours each side of me own horses and I would estimate that a quarter of the village ride horses. How many of those are men? 1. Yes, 1.

Apart from the fact that the majority of horse riders are female of course.

You get that from one obviously very affluent village?
But beside the point...

I live in horse riding land, neighbours each side of me own horses and I would estimate that a quarter of the village ride horses. How many of those are men? 1. Yes, 1.

So they are exposed to horses their whole lives (and if its 1/4 of the village then presumably someone is doing the shit horsey jobs for these rich people)

You are practically living on another planet in your village if you think most people would feed and stable a horse instead of their children.

What exactly do you mean by "ride horses"... I ride horses I just don't really do it as a leisure activity but I'm perfectly happy to be paid to ride or trot one round the sand school if I'm paid.

My friend owns several stables and doesn't like riding .. she rides because the horses need exercising or training and she's paid to do it but she'd rather strip and rebuild an engine for leisure. This is 2021, she's allowed...

Given 1/2 a choice I'd rather trot Alfie the old cart horse round the field with a head bridle and blanket instead one of the daft nervous thoroughbreds because he's an old mate and lovely and calm.

No-one’s consciously slaving away doing something they hate and looking wistfully out of the window at the surfers or bikers and thinking ‘I wish I could do that but I’m a girl’. At least, not in this country I’m sure. I’m talking about subconscious conditioning which leads people not to bother even thinking about the biking or the sewing etc as something they could do – they don’t think they’ll enjoy it, because they think it’s not for them.

Then why did you never take up ski-jumping or least least give it a go?
The point is it's got sod all to do with gender... and a lot to do with no ski jumps.

Actually, I can give a couple of good examples here:

1. Society says that eating meat is macho, masculine, tough, etc – hence why most vegetarians/vegans are women (because they can see through or aren’t affected by that conditioning), and why you end up with pejorative terms like “soy boy” and so on. However, I grew up with a dad who was, and still is, vegetarian – so seeing that as a primary influence meant that the notion of men who don’t eat meat as weak held less sway, which made it very easy for me to go vegan.

Erm really?
Eating meat is YUMMY and we evolved to do it and because of it, that's why we eat meat.

hence why most vegetarians/vegans are women (because they can see through or aren’t affected by that conditioning)

Or some people have fallen for believing that we didn't ? If that was the case you'd be saying that's because women are more susceptible to being brainwashed ???

Don't get me wrong ... it's 2021 and if people want to be vegan or vegetarian we have supplements, its not "required" any more.

However, I grew up with a dad who was, and still is, vegetarian – so seeing that as a primary influence meant that the notion of men who don’t eat meat as weak held less sway, which made it very easy for me to go vegan.

So was your mother an omnivore? Was it just your dad?
A far far simpler explanation is you didn't grow up eating meat and its 2021 ... and its got sod all to do with your gender.

People should stop name calling and saying people are Trolls and actually debate and ask for clarification rather than being rude.

So I think its clear that peoples exposure to certain activities will have an impact on the sorts of things that they do. As would the financial situation for some sports/pastimes too.

No one has presented any evidence to the balance of social conditioning by gender vs nurture has on what people choose to do.

Also most of the people on here being men seem to be pretty content with the choices they have made irrespective of the impact of the the nature nurture argument. They just don't feel unhappy about it. So if they don't feel unhappy do they actually have a problem?

So if the answer to the above is no they don't have a problem then what makes them think women have a problem with their choices regardless of how those choices were made?

I am not claiming to know the answers to those questions by the way.

Wow, I wonder what the 3 riders would think of the typefest their little promo video for denim shorts has provoked.

Forcing people to do something they don’t want to isn’t positive in my book.

Molgrips

How on EARTH could you possibly think that this is what’s being suggested?

Is this suggested or is that where it leads?
I don't want the person to take offense that spent ages trying to convince me I can draw and assumed I'd like to be able to because I 100% believe they were doing what they thought "right".

I HATE drawing... I'd rather have my teeth pulled.
In the larger context and not trying to go off on one but I HATED SCHOOL .. completely and utterly and it was a complete waste of time and probably left me scarred for life... yet a lot of people want to "recondition me"... I'm somehow at fault because I hated school.

I don't like sewing... it's not a leisure activity for me... why try and convince me otherwise.
I do sew and I own a sewing machine but not because I enjoy it but someone has to do it and the OH detests sewing... I just view it as a.n. other boring job that needs doing.

I sew, weld, plaster (probably lots more) ... I don't mind any but they are just jobs someone has to do I hate drawing and NOTHING is going to change that.

because “only women are allowed to have an opinion”

Honestly – what the ****? I can’t conceive how you could possibly think this is what people are suggesting!

How many times on this thread alone has it been said the problem is white males?

Simple question then?
Is my son's mother telling her sister she should be doing extreme sports because she's a woman sexist?

The only people I hear telling girls and women what they can and can't do today are other women.
(admittedly if I worked for BC I'd probably hear this every day but then BC is a old school sexist organisation to the core)

Again ... this is 2021.
Heck even in the bad ole 2020's when fleet opened the pump track it had LOADS of females.
Bloody brilliant... and so far as I know they didn't advertise any women specific stuff.
I specifically remember a lady from before the last lockdown ... she was well into being clinically obese but she didn't let that or her gender stop her... noone said "you shouldn't be doing this" indeed many of us remarked how well she was progressing and encouraged her

Let me give you all a tip – if you read a well reasoned argument on the internet and it seems absolutely preposterous – that probably means you haven’t got the point. OutOfBreath, you are apparently interpreting my argument as being absurd, but if you give me a bit of credit for my intelligence you should go back and read again. You’ve understood more or less the exact opposite of what I really mean.

Or ... and stop and think.
There is a well rehearsed argument on the internet spread about with arguments like "you are not allowed an opinion" ...

Lets imagine you answer the question to yourself as to why it is in my experience exclusively women telling other women/girls what they can and can't do in MTB because of their gender?
Have you honestly EVER heard a bloke say "girls can't ride DH" because I have heard plenty of mums say it and say its why they can't ride either.

The real issue is that you are saying ‘men this’ and ‘women that’. That is the root cause of this. It’s futile but also damaging to say that. If I said ‘men like outdoorsy things’ that would be just as wrong as saying ‘women like outdoorsy things’. Because some men and some women do, and other men and other women also don’t. You can like whatever you like (obviously!!!) but you must not talk in generic terms about genders, because that then leads to the kind of social condition that leads to people not realising that they might like something.

I suspect that there are some angry dolphins here...
From what I read OOB is simply challenging your preconceptions.

if you read a well reasoned argument on the internet

Erm, I see plenty as I'm sure you do if you think wider .. flat earth, religion, 29ers ???

What is common is selective quoting and telling people what they can and can't say.
(I was going to add brexit but then realised there is no reasoned argument... )

At least the first two of those looks reasoned because its well practiced and because those who disagree are sanctioned/cancelled.

Also most of the people on here being men seem to be pretty content with the choices they have made irrespective of the impact of the the nature nurture argument. They just don’t feel unhappy about it. So if they don’t feel unhappy do they actually have a problem?

So if the answer to the above is no they don’t have a problem then what makes them think women have a problem with their choices regardless of how those choices were made?

This.

Also, I feel I'm being sucked into the horse riding rabbit hole. Horse riding is a bad example of a gender specific hobby. Yes, women out number men by a large degree but men are still commonplace. If a man says "I'm going out for a hack this afternoon" nobody does a double take. Male jockeys out number female jockeys. In contrast I reckon if a bloke said he had some sewing to do or that he was having a few mates over for some wine and chocolate watching Strictly it would be considered unusual. As I say the examples don't really matter, but if we're going to complain about stuff we've been conditioned away from we might as well pick stuff that we *really* don't do.

You are practically living on another planet in your village if you think most people would feed and stable a horse instead of their children.

Where have I said that and what has that got to do with anything anyway?

Yes owning a horse tends to be for the wealthier in society but that is irrelevant in this discussion. When it comes to horse riding, female riders are in the majority so directly to your point of saying it is not gender related, you are clearly incorrect.

How do you explain this;
2 Sept 2019 — Two thirds of the 29,731 athletes in the International Equestrian Federation (FEI) database of competitors in the Olympics disciplines of dressage, eventing and jumping were females, with 83.10% in dressage, 73.175% in eventing and 61.311% in jumping,

Where have I said that and what has that got to do with anything anyway?

Yes owning a horse tends to be for the wealthier in society but that is irrelevant in this discussion. When it comes to horse riding, female riders are in the majority so directly to your point of saying it is not gender related, you are clearly incorrect.

How do you explain this;
2 Sept 2019 — Two thirds of the 29,731 athletes in the International Equestrian Federation (FEI) database of competitors in the Olympics disciplines of dressage, eventing and jumping were females, with 83.10% in dressage, 73.175% in eventing and 61.311% in jumping,

A hobby where 1/3 of the participants is male is still a poor example of a gender specific hobby. In contrast no man has *ever* attended my wife's sewing/knitting group. If a bloke ever did it would be well worthy of comment. There are plenty of things that overwhelmingly interest one gender. Horse riding wouldn't make the top 1000.

How do you explain this;
2 Sept 2019 — Two thirds of the 29,731 athletes in the International Equestrian Federation (FEI) database of competitors in the Olympics disciplines of dressage, eventing and jumping were females, with 83.10% in dressage, 73.175% in eventing and 61.311% in jumping,

Pretty simply ..
a) in the Olympics disciplines
b) I'm pretty sure the gender of the "athletes" hasn't been considered, just the people sat on their back. You might want to split the genders up to include geldings...

If you want to do this globally (FEI) then you need to include agrarian societies and non Olympic events.

My Canadian mate rides horses .. he uses them to check on the cattle over tens of thousands of acres and he also rides rodeo but that's not an Olympic event.

You might want to include for example the Cadre Noir or the Viennese one who's name escapes me.
Are they part of the FEI?

Same as cycling...

The only people I hear telling girls and women what they can and can’t do today are other women.

I’m not getting involved in this as it’s going round in circles, but I do feel the need to say that as a woman that definitely isn’t my experience.

There are far better examples than horse riding.

There sure are, was just debating a clearly incorrect statement that horse riding doesn't have a gender in-balance.
Have to say I wish I hadn't bothered as it seems to have kicked off a number of overly long and very confused replies so I will step away now.

It was my mum who taught me how to mend a puncture back in rural South Africa in the early 80’s (while my dad was disinterestedly off doing his own thing]. This was because she got tired of mending all the kids’ punctures in the cul de sac. She’s 75 now, and still rides everyday.  For every stereotype, there’s a wonderful exception.

There sure are, was just debating a clearly incorrect statement that horse riding doesn’t have a gender in-balance.

The people I see on horses from stables are women, very rarely men.

The only people I see grazing their horses on wasteland and trotting through them local estate are men. I don't recall ever seeing a woman doing this.

I don't know what point I'm making here. 😀

lapierrelady
Full Member
Can I suggest a little light reading of Invisible Women by Caroline Criado Perez?

Posted 14 hours ago

Ironically a load of (I think/assume) blokes debate a gender point while a post from a (I think/assume) woman saying read 'Invisible Women' goes, er, seemingly unnoticed.

There are plenty of things that overwhelmingly interest one gender.

But why is that? And do you believe that riding bikes should be one of them? Because otherwise, you seem to have propagated a gender argument for 5 pages detracting from the original post which was both interesting and potentially useful for those (male or female) interested in helping address any underlying bias.

But why is that?

Well, I don't go to "knit night" because it doesn't interest me. My wife goes because it interests her. Perhaps she and I are part of a pattern?

And do you believe that riding bikes should be one of the?

I don't agree with the premise that cycling overwhelmingly interests one gender, on the trails I ride it's 50/50. Cycling is about as egalitarian as you can get, almost everyone from two and a half upwards can cycle and most do. But yeah, if (say) men overwhelmingly decided overnight they didn't want to cycle any more I wouldn't lose sleep over it any more than I worry that fewer men enjoy Dirty Dancing than women or that fewer women make Airfix models of Lancaster Bombers. As we can see from this thread everyone is pretty happy with the hobbies their conditioning (or whatever) has selected for them.

She’s 75 now, and still rides everyday. For every stereotype, there’s a wonderful exception.

My mum is 75 and doesn't ride every day but *does* do two 50km+ rides each week with a cycle group. Judging by her FB pics 75yo women who ride a lot are not remotely exceptional.

I don’t agree with the premise that cycling overwhelmingly interests one gender, on the trails I ride it’s 50/50.

Interesting, where I ride it is nowhere near that. I would estimate it at around 10%

This suggests 66%/33% at best https://blog.nature.org/science/2016/08/29/the-science-behind-cyclings-enormous-gender-discrepancy/#:~:text=There%20have%20also%20been%20a,1%2C%20and%20most%20often%20worse.

I don’t agree with the premise that cycling overwhelmingly interests one gender,

good - we all agree on something

on the trails I ride it’s 50/50.

OK, so that's where it gets interesting, because that's not what I see. I haven't done any proper measurement but my gut feel is:
Commuting/transport cycling around town - perhaps getting closest to 50/50 but I still think >50% male
Road cycling (drop bars, lycra making progress!) - probably 90% male
Track cycling (I've not been with my kids for about 5 years), but was predominantly male unless a specific "girls" session -- yet our women do very well internationally
Serious MTB trail centres (7-stanes etc) - maybe 70+% male? probably "worse" is you exclude family groups.
Local MTB trails - probably 80+% male, and I think 95% if not including families. i.e. teenage girls and twenty something women are just not going there...
Local kids just mucking about without parents (not necessarily "going cycling - but going somewhere and taking their bikes" - 99% male - I genuinely can't remember when I last saw a teenage girl in a group that has a bike with them, but I frequently see boys in this camp).

cCycling is about as egalitarian as you can get, almost everyone from two and a half upwards can cycle

agreed (although I bet even the starts for people who don't learn to cycle have a little gender bias).

and most do.

do they though? is that true?
across all age groups?

But yeah, if (say) men overwhelmingly decided overnight they didn’t want to cycle any more I wouldn’t lose sleep over it

I don't think anyone is asking YOU to lose sleep over it, just to stop shouting down people who are genuinely interested if there is a particular reason and if that should be addressed.

any more than I worry that fewer men enjoy Dirty Dancing than women or that fewer women make Airfix models of Lancaster Bombers.

If I worked for Airfix I'd really want to know if there was a way to market my models that would appeal to, and therefore increase my sales of kits. If I was trying to promote a dance class I might well want to understand whether using Dirty Dancing analogies / imagery would aid or hinder me capturing the widest possible audience. And if I was thinking of making a hit movie about Dancing, I might even see if there was an angle about gender stereotypes that I could work into it. Who knows maybe I'd end up with another classic that sells out on the big screen and moves to stage.

As we can see from this thread everyone is pretty happy with the hobbies their conditioning (or whatever) has selected for them.

A predominantly male (moderately affluent) group of people with an interest in mountain bikes is happy that they have access to cycling! Do you understand sample bias? However there are infinite "hobbies" and we can't do them all - what matters to me is that people shouldn't be put off participation in cycling (and I personally care far more about participation at the simplest level of recreation/transport than sport) for the wrong reasons. If there is a conscious choice that's probably OK - but an unconscious bias is where it becomes puzzling. If it's because of a social stigma it becomes concerning. You may insist that you don't believe there is any stigma and that in fact everywhere you look there are just as many boys and girls, men and women, grannies and granddads cycling but I don't think that's representative of the country - so you either live in some wonderful bubble or have chosen not to see what is around you. If it's the latter you are part of the problem that reinforces the stigma. More people cycling helps with road safety, improves access rights, makes us all healthier etc - so is something we should all strive for.

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