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this is consumerism for you.
You can get a bike a few 100gm lighter with more shine and fancier labels or buy your family a holiday.
I wish people would stop judging my financial position. Trust me, I can afford it. I just don’t want to
So is this thread just a humblebrag then?
Christ, this place is getting worse. Enjoy the thread, I’m out.
al- don't think so; kryters appears to be saying he can do both.
It's not consumerism - it's discretionary spending.
From his posts on other threads he takes his cycling seriously so why not think about improvement (or increased pleasure).
I understand what he's saying but, if if was me, I wouldn't have posted as some of the responses have been entirely predictable.
Full Deore with an XT shifter. Nearly all the reviews say you can hardly tell the difference going any higher. And with modern mechs hanging down so low with such wide range cassettes there’s no point.
I understand what he’s saying but, if if was me, I wouldn’t have posted as some of the responses have been entirely predictable
The more days that pass on here the more I feel like this.
If this were a school playground, I'd be expelled by now
"I just calculated that the £1250 I paid for an SLX Treq Liquid in 2002 is £2166 now, add brexit etc and the better nature of parts and maybe that Giant is comparable."
That's true , but what's hammering the affordability/increasing perceived pain for a lot of people is that wages growth hasn't kept up with inflation for the last 10+ years.
Looking at Trek as an example, it seems an Ultegra equiped bike is £700 more expensive than 105.
But when you look at the detail, you get better cockpit and a carbon seatpost as opposed to aluminium.
Is it then still worth the £700? Nope, not in my opinion. And that’s from someone who buys every watt he can (including oversized pulley wheels and ceramic bearings….)
My winter bike has 105 from 2017, it gets refreshed when necessary, but doesn’t get upgraded. Still rides smoothly and changes gear effortlessly.
My summer bike is the same model as my winter bike but the lighter higher spec frame, lighter wheels and Di2. It’s about £5k more expensive than the winter bike. Completely not worth it in subjective terms. But I like it. I’d rather spend my money elsewhere, but it’s the price I’m happy to pay for the bike I want.
A friend recently bought a new bike (last summer), paid £3200, Ultegra, carbon wheels and a really nice frame….just a shame Bowman have gone under! I’m also in the market for a crit bike, don’t want to race on my good bike and my winter bike is a bit heavy. I’m also looking to spend £3k, but there’s not a massive amount of choice out there. A couple of years ago that budget would have got a decent enough Ultegra bike, weighing about 8kgs. So if anyone has any suggestions please shout….happy with Alu.
I did think about the Spec Allez Sprint but they’re like rocking horse poo.
As I said, I don’t think I worded my OP well – I’m not choosing between the two, I just don’t think its justified to spend £3k+ on a 105 to Ultegra upgrade when there’s other things that can be done with the cash, at the same time bemoaning at the price of bikes/components these days.
I'm with you. Looking at at least 3k, possibly more, to get a noticeably better road bike than I have now (2015 giant tcr, ultegra, carbon wheelset). I've been priced out. Such is life. No more posh bikes unless circumstances intervene and force it. Even things like 200 for a pair of sti shifters means I'm looking at Ali express.
Anyway, first world problems. I've found not reading the Cycling websites and magazines a great help. You don't want to buy upgrades (so called) if you don't know they exist.
I've reached the stage where I can afford just about any bike I want. But I don't see the need to go higher than slx. For the amount I used the bike verses the gains I'd get from going higher I don't see the point - it doesn't offer me any more.
I've downgraded my commuting and road bikes because the better bikes weren't getting the use they should have had. The niceness of having a great bike was overshadowed by having spent more than I needed to.
I can afford much more expensive bikes that I ride and riding bikes is my primary hobby.
I find that mid level frames, wheels, groupsets such as 105 are completely good enough for my needs so that is what I use. Current bike cost me about £800 all in and has a Ridley CX frame, Mavic Cosmic Elite wheels and fill 105 groups. I will ride it 5,000 miles a year as always.
I wish people would stop judging my financial position. Trust me, I can afford it. I just don’t want to, I don’t think the value is justified and would prefer to use my money wisely.
If you are in a position where your choice is "spend money on frivolous bike item" or "use money wisely" then you have defined your financial position for us. Nobody has assumed anything.
The fact that you started a thread complaining about the price of upgrading your 105 bike to ultegra with brand-new off-the-shelf parts does not imply a wise use of money either.
It's a forum. You come on to moan and vent your irrational negativity, are you so surprised you get some perfectly rational negativity in return?
😉
@kryton57 - I think I know where you are coming from. I would love a DI2 groupset. I've used it and it's amazing. However the upgrade cost isn't insignificant and, while I could afford it, the benefits are justifiable to me / in my opinion. There are other things I prioritise before that.
I'm sorry that I dropped in the 3k bike* comment earlier, I just didn't realise that some people would turn this into a question of wealth. It isn't and Kryton is right to point that out. Value isn't exactly what it was especially when there's a bit less choice and CRC aren't throwing out OEM parts at silly prices anymore. I only replace consumables nowadays; the last upgrade was a pair of brakes second hand. When I bust my GX mech six months ago, I replaced it with an NX mainly down to availability, but also because it's hard to justify forking out a ton on a mid-range derailleur. It's a bit clunky even for Sram, but it works good enough.
*We'll be buying the bike through finance, as per usual.
Admitedly not the cheapest bike but it illustrates one issue well, all european bikes are dealt with in either Netherlands or Germany.
Supercaliber 9.7 | Trek Bikes (GB)
4600gbp
Supercaliber 9.7 | Trek Bikes (DE)
4800eur.
The UK price is about £600 more than the German price, why Brexit and getting hammered for import duty.
I've always used the buy an upgrade / sell the old to part finance the upgrade approach, same as the op.
I've done this on my MTB and road bike and now have two damn nice bikes (imo) and spare/alternative wheels for both.
I personally can't justify spending thousands on a single purchase of a mid or high end bike, like the op family comes first on larger spends. However this approach has got me two unique bikes that are comparable to high end off the shelf and are exactly what I want.
Every part purchase is calculated on what I can reasonably get for selling the part I already have and also what the 2nd hand value of the new part should be a couple years down the line. Generally I try to buy sale or discounted parts to start with and quite often I get back the same as the initial outlay when selling on.
I've now got two bikes that can't reasonably be upgraded any more past where they are at the moment. That is unless some new technology or revolutionary part comes along. The last time that happened was in 2012 when I sold my 26" MTB which was covered in high end bits for a 29r.
I also use things like cash back apps to gain additional funds I wouldn't otherwise have to directly fund my MTB parts habit.
Also have to say road bike parts are horrendous in cost in comparison to MTB - I've AXS on the MTB, for a similar 1x set up on the road bike would cost me at least twice as much. My road bike is my more left field as a result.
A bike is only as good as the person riding it. I have several Strava KOM's on or near the family trail in the Forest of Dean, all done on my Cube cyclo cross bike fitted with Shimano 105 that I picked up second hand for £500.
am very happy with my planet x spitfire titanium road bike that i bought feb last year.
as i'm not rich it was at a price i could pay off/afford (a huge thanks to my localish bike shop who actually ordered the bike for us).
it came with sram force 11 groupset and good components also.
tbh it's all the road bike i will ever need and i loves it.
total cost £1799.00
i also bought a kinesis sync ti ht mtb about 3 years ago that is fitted with slx 11 speed groupset,hope enduro wheels 27.5", a 2nd hand rockshox yari fork,renthal bar/stem,and a ritchey seatpost,dmr v12 pedals.
i think the total cost for the build was about £2500 (again a huge thanks to my localish bike shop for buying the frame etc and building it for us).
i wouldn't have been able to afford the bikes/order them without the bike shops help tbh so am very grateful to them.
tbh even if i did have the money to buy a top of the range bike i wouldn't do so. the cheaper bikes are more than good enough for my riding/fitness etc.
I keep thinking I would like a new mtb, I do the odd xc race and nimble around easy local trails. My 2001/2 rock lobster cost £1200 it has hope hubs etc and now a 1x10 desire drive train. To replace it with something as good but more modern and lighter would cost about £2000 and I can't be arsed. My main road bike cost £400 off eBay and I can run with the local fast shop ride (when feeling good) and that's all Aethos's and Pinarellos, being a bit more aero would help me on the flat bits. I get bike envy now and again but a £7000 road bike is just bonkers
I work in a bike shop and every time we book something in from the supplier it's gone up a couple of quid. It's constantly creeping up.
OP may have bailed but I'll add this anyway.
I think there's a few reasons people buy expensive stuff and it's our money, we can do what we like with it. I guess it comes down to what we really value and what our relationship with products was about. I value knowing exactly what my bike does and why, not what anyone looking at it would think of it or what it says about me. That's just me, I don't expect others to have the same experience. But if bikes are about consumption or projecting something, if you spend more time shopping for kit than mapping out rides or doing routine maintenance for the sake of clockwork running, I don't think it's as positive as it could be for you.
I've been in the bike industry in some way on and off for 25 years and I guess it has a predictable effect on most of us. Like many others in the trade I really DGAS about top end kit. I suppose I've been through the 'moving up' process on fast-forward. I used to get Shimano either free or at import cost, most other parts on demo terms if requested. You get the stuff cheap, you XTR and Black-Box your bikes and off you go.
After a few years with a few bikes kitted out like this I realised things change faster than well used and well-maintained stuff wears out. The trails or roads don't really change, I wasn't having more fun because I just fitted new kit. The thing that moves the gears, yeah whatever.. I want great geometry and tyres and ergonomics. Deore's fine. All up bike being a reasonable weight and never actually weighing it, fine. A £200 ti seatpost 'cos its comfy and it'll last a long time, fine. Not suggesting this is some kind of superior attitude, simply that I'm a happier rider for being this way, my riding enjoyment isn't dependent on kit level or consumption.
I wish people would stop judging my financial position. Trust me, I can afford it. I just don’t want to, I don’t think the value is justified and would prefer to use my money wisely.
How much did you spend on your watch?
The trails or roads don’t really change
I disagree with this. The available trails near me have changed dramatically since I started riding here over 25 years ago. There are new trails appearing all the time and they are getting much more technical and challenging.
Bikes have gone up seriously but as ever the price of a bike is decision whether you think it's worthwhile or affordable. I guess our problem as generally people who have been cycling a long time is that we benchmark today's elevated prices against yesterdays prices and some of the prices are insane. Extreme example - My local bike shop had a £14K Specialised eMTB.
To the OP. I change MTB every couple of years but road bikes move on very slowly since road designs don't change much. I'd maybe upgrade my existing bike rather than buy a new one (new tyres, wheels, drivetrain) unless there is something wrong with my existing bike. Or wait until the market realigns and oversupplies (2023?2024?). Or buy the new bike and get some better tryes. Oh and 3.5K for an Alu frame 105 bike seems very expensive.
Extreme example – My local bike shop had a £14K Specialised eMTB.
Not as extreme as you might think.
I used to spec Ultegra on road bikes because I rode in cold wet conditions and the carbon brake levers didn’t chill my hands as much as the 105s that were aluminium at the time.
Not sure that adds to the thread, but really was my reason for buying an Ultegra equipped bike. Getting 105 and upgrading the STIs would have been more costly.
I stepped off the upgrade ladder many years ago and now spec the bike for reliability and ease of maintenance (i.e. not having to do it). I spent this week doing the annual strip down and rebuild - new bearings into the 14 year old Hope hubs, seven years since the last time; new grips to replace old On Ones planed smooth, and new front pads. That was it. I replace stuff when it breaks.
I find it depressing that I'm seeing many young, healthy but clearly inexperienced cyclists who appear to think it's necessary to drop thousands of pounds on an ebike to access cycling. I don't think that's a positive trend.
Is this really where we are, where 105/Deore shod bikes requires something akin to a six figure salary or lengthy loan these days?
No you don't need to be on a six figure salary to be able to afford a bike that costs £2700.
When I was working it would have taken me a few years to earn six figures.
I've still got some nice bikes thought.
We all make choices. It's entirely up to you how you choose to spend your money. It's no big deal.
Either buy a bike or go on holiday.
There's no right or wrong answer.
I don't think anyone is trying to judge your financial situation at all.
On a personal level I don't mind spendy money on stuff that makes a difference to me like good suspension/tyres.
I'd never spend out on XTR drivetrains as it's not going to make any difference to me.
I still like to see top of the range everything on other people's bikes thought.
If it makes them happy it's fair enough in my eye.
The truth is that most improvements in biking are marginal/incremental. Only a few things are real game changers. Many “improvements” are actually worse. The bike industry constantly has to find new ways of convincing riders that what they have isn’t good enough and we need to upgrade. As a manufacturing industry it needs to do that so it’s businesses survive. Sports companies are notorious for having “new concepts”. every year. If they don’t they just tend to change colour schemes. It’s another version of the fashion industry.
We now have the era of £300 cassettes £200 mechs which are disposable items. Internal cable routing to give us more fun. Hysteria over wheel sizes , elliptical chainrings and new bike geometry which isn’t all good. Some would have us riding penny farthing sized wheels. Not great over jumps or for manuals etc!
Frankly if you have a bike that you enjoy riding it’s worth doing just that until you feel it’s really holding you back or you can’t keep up with your mates or it breaks. Don’t let the idea of new gear stop you enjoying what you already like.
I still am using 105 10speed shifters on my road bike that have done thousands of miles. They get well looked after and lubed but just keep on going. I’m also running two 26 inch 10sp MTBs which are still great fun and keep up fine with those I ride with. I was warned “you won’t be able to get good 26 MTB tyres anymore “ , but I have found no problem recently and have bought spares.
For many of us spending thousands to have the latest kit isn’t worth it/possible. I have tweaked my MTBs geometry with wide bars and short stems and it’s great , and cost loads less than new bikes.
The trails or roads don’t really change
I disagree with this. The available trails near me have changed dramatically since I started riding here over 25 years ago. There are new trails appearing all the time and they are getting much more technical and challenging.
What I'm getting at is in the 2-3 year period most will cycle through bikes they don't really change esp if the type of riding we do is fairly constant. If you start racing Enduro races when before it was XC you might but a new bike. Or locally there can be periods of development that push your riding on, as would travel to new places, otherwise / overall the rate of change isn't that fast imo.
Some need a new bike to hit a feature that they already had the basic skills for, then a 13 year old on an old hardtail shows then it's not about the bike.
new bearings into the 14 year old Hope hubs, seven years since the last time
What spec bearings do you use? Since I know you do some miles.
the 2-3 year period most will cycle through bikes
That is insanity to me. What the hell is wrong with a bike at 2 years old?
That is insanity to me. What the hell is wrong with a bike at 2 years old?
Really, insanity?
Loads of people swap out bikes that quickly (or, shock horror, even quicker) me included.
I sold two last year, both less than a year old. Lock me up! 😆
Maybe it matters more for road bikes where weight is more if an issue
The difference between Dura Ace and 105 is 480mL. If you want Dura Ace performance on 105 components, take one bottle not two. How many times do you arrive home and look down to see that you didn't drink all the fluids you carried?
https://ccache.cc/blogs/newsroom/2020-road-gravel-groupset-weight-comparison
That said, I have mechanical DA and it is lovely. But old 10 speed DA shifts better and I have that too.
I was warned “you won’t be able to get good 26 MTB tyres anymore “
Heard it so many times, what they really mean is you won't get a block pattern between two already similar types or an obscure compound.
Coming from the days of tyres being a choice of 2 Michelin or 4 Maxxis and two compounds (unless you got an imported Maxxpro with a DH casing) I really couldn't GAF. As long as it gets me down the hill and holds on to the track doing it I'm happy.
Don't get me wrong, choice is good, but sometimes it can be too much and just over complicates things.
I sold two last year, both less than a year old.
Yeah, that's nowhere near enough time to get to grips with a bike.
new bearings into the 14 year old Hope hubs, seven years since the last time
What spec bearings do you use? Since I know you do some miles.
IIRC the last ones were Hope, but this time I'm trying Blueseal out of curiousity. I also changed the freehub bearings - for the first time! The 14 year old originals were running a bit rough so I popped in the Hope spares I bought the same time I bought the hub...
Key thing is, I think, I don't wash the bike. Ever. And certainly not with snake oil from the likes of Muc Off. Once a year, usually picking a week with sh!t weather in February, I take the bike right down to its component nuts and bolts, degrease and clean everything, bleed the brakes, replace what needs replacing and build it back up with lashings of marine grease. I'll keep an eye (ear) out over the next 12 months for developing issues, e.g. I had to repack the jockey bearings on my four year old XT mech at Christmas, but generally everything just ticks along until the next 12 months...
[img] 
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(That's the third set of jockeys after the previous two wore down to throwing stars).
That is insanity to me. What the hell is wrong with a bike at 2 years old?
The OP was talking about 'moving up', and there's a load of people on here generally saying they sell bikes while they have residual value so that's often at 2-3 years old. If people weren't doing that helitape wouldn't be a thing?
Most Some, perhaps. Anyway.
IIRC the last ones were Hope, but this time I’m trying Blueseal out of curiousity.
I'm on the Codex standard balls, fitted 2 sets and not had any issues yet. Time will tell.
Yeah, that’s nowhere near enough time to get to grips with a bike.
What do you mean get to grips with a bike?
With road bikes there definitely is a barrier to entry with fast groups. I was chatting to some graduate the other month about it. He mentioned that he felt really guilty being on a nice aero road bike and I was saying I'd just bought deeper section Zipp wheels to help keep up with the faster riders. He said he didn't agree with the barrier to entry ie unless you're much stronger than everyone else you'll be struggling to keep up if everyone else is on aero bikes with deep section wheels etc. I know a few others who have mentioned this ie the local chain gang consists of only pro level road bikes and anyone on an entry level model is at a distinct disadvantage.
What do you mean get to grips with a bike?
If you've read any of his threads you'd know. Some people obsess about setup (which is fine if you enjoy that type of thing), some people just ride 🙂
What do you mean get to grips with a bike?
Learning how it responds, how to set it up the way you want, how to get the best out of it and what it can offer you.
snake oil from the likes of Muc Off
It's detergent, not snake oil. Do you put snake-oil in your washing machine for your clothes? Do you put snake oil on your hands after a piss?
With road bikes there definitely is a barrier to entry with fast groups.
Same on track. I did a track session with some faster riders. On the group sprint exercises I was consistently some distance behind them. We also did some flying 200m sprints and . that speed difference equated to about 0.2s. If you were going to lose a sprint by a wheel, that would be a far smaller time deficit. I was on a stock basic track bike with square section rims, so it seems quite likely that an aero bike would have gained me enough speed to make a significant difference in my position on the track.
Some people obsess about setup
Yes although we prefer the term 'pay attention to detail' 🙂 But it's free (or at least cheap) whereas new bikes are not.
snake oil from the likes of Muc Off
Technically it's grinding paste from Muc Off. In Zero Friction Cycling tests, the worst three lubes he has ever tested (failing by a massive margin) are all Muc Off lubes! His standard test protocol has five testing blocks, Muc Off never completes all five as the chain is so worn after one or two blocks the test is abandoned. No other lube has failed to complete the test protocol. There is literally nothing worse you can put on your chain!
https://zerofrictioncycling.com.au/latest-zero-friction-cycling-news-ludicrous-af-episode/