Trail Centres definitely have their place, and i'm sure there are a lot of weekend warriors (for want of a not very endearing term) who just ride TC because it is so easy.
But in, oh, about 20 years of MTBing, i can't actually think of any memorable ride i've done at a trail centre? The rides i remember, the rides we still talk about in the pub, they've all been out in the wild, often the rides that "went wrong" and felt like purgatory at the time(due to weather, mechanical, injury, getting lost etc), but now those memories have been mellowed and tinted by the passage of time, and have become Legend.
I think the other aspect is what happens when you crash at a trail centre. Due to the mass weight of traffic, trail centres have too have 'armored' trails, lots of stone etc. And when you fall off onto that, it hurts. In fact, have an off at BPW, even a pretty slow one, and there is a good chance of that resulting in a hospital visit. Same with Swinley, despite that place rating as pretty much zero on the Gnarrcore scale!
On the flip side, i've had huge, massive, even spectacular crashes out on real trails and not been hurt, because landing in a bush, a wet muddle puddle, or similar is a lot softer a landing. The result, i wonder, is that MTB is going from a sport where you would learn your art from a lot of small non injurious crashes, to one where you don't crash, until you have a biggy?
Blah blah blah.
It's all MTB and it's all good. You can't blame the success of BPW for Afan being run down. Trail centres are just a bit old hat now and bike parks, wild trails and "adventure" are where it's at.
I get bored by too many berms personally, but BPW's success shows I'm probably in the minority.
But in, oh, about 20 years of MTBing, i can't actually think of any memorable ride i've done at a trail centre?
I get a particular rush from TC riding. Especially the descent on Cafall. Very few berms.
Choice is good.
Also: Berm'd corners really highlight the TC effect. Even without any skill, you can go quite fast round a berm'd corner. Probably the difference between absolute perfect footwork and body mass positioning is maybe 30% speed. Natural, off camber, bumpy, rooty turns however are the opposite. With poor technique you probably can't even make it around, let alone with any speed, but with good technique, you can carry speed around them.
Today, thanks to youtube, loads of people want too, and often can, JUMP things. But show them a corner, and oh dear, not so impressive. Next time you follow someone at BPW, have a look at their foot work for example....
(and of course, doing a jump at say BPW, where it's a perfectly sculpted takeoff into a perfect length flight, into a perfect landing really isn't that difficult. I've ridden with plenty of people who can jump at trail centers but not in the real world on real trails (often, they don't even "see" the natural jumps because they haven't learnt to read a trail, just to follow one.......... )
if you go to the mountains and dont ride them why did you go to the mountains?[quote/]Because the mountains are 5 hours further from the Lake district or N.Wales.
The 7 stanes when they opened were genuinely something new. Mountains are Mountains, and from London the alps are about the same distsnce as Fort William.
molgrips
I get a particular rush from TC riding
Me too. But it's a short term hit. You get to the bottom, "high five" your riding buddies, maybe even talk about how rad you were over a coffee in the coffee shop. But, drive home, sleep, and by next morning it's gone. You remember having fun, Remember the endorphin hit, but that's it.
I'm sat here trying to remember any particular run i've done at BPW, and i can't!
And yet, i can remember in HD/4k detail a particular moment at a Click24 race in 2008, at 4.30am, when the sun came up, and i rode out of the cold, dark woods, exhausted, out onto the higher moors, and saw the dark shadow of the woods racing away on the ground in front of me as the sun rose, and below, the lights of Bristol were winking in the gloaming, and i watched planes descending to the airport, silent silver tubes glinting as they maneuvered onto Finals in the rays of the early morning sun.
A particular moment, probably lasting no more than 15 seconds, but that is frozen in time and etched into my memory.
110% what maxtorque says.
The view of Snowdon from the bunk house, in the last of early spring's orange sunlight at dusk, snow glinting bright against the backdrop of dark thunderous skies, and highlighting the rock face Indian in perfect relief.
Peeing on my cassette and derailleur in -6 to unfreeze the gears and freehub on the Quantocks ridge line in January.
Coming off Helvellyn and into Sticks pass in the snow, with skiers on the piste opposite.
The feeling of exposure with the binary outcomes of life or death resting on your bike handling skills in the Sapnish alphajrras (sp!).
Plenty of those etched in the record.
Mostly, trail centre rides fit into the 'yeah, we went there and it was good' generic category.
😆in the last of early spring's orange sunlight at dusk, snow glinting bright against the backdrop of dark thunderous skies, and highlighting the rock face Indian in perfect relief.
New trail at BPW
Just came back from a week in Scotland riding natural trails (Torridon area) and I do think i was riding them better than in the past because i went to BPW several times during the year training myself jumping and cornering.
The skills thing is a valid point. But how many transfer the skills picked up at BPW and trail centres out into the mountains? I wouldn't expect a big proportion but I'd expect (hope?) that some do. Note I'm not saying it's an expected progression.
a lot of weekend warriors
Unless you're a pro, that's pretty much a description of everyone
A particular moment, probably lasting no more than 15 seconds, but that is frozen in time and etched into my memory.
To be fair I still remember riding Deliverance and Magic Mushroom at GT.
OK so they're always going to be there rain or shine rather than some etherial moment that only happens once. And they're and unlikely to elicit the same memories a second time around and probably get boring if you're local (a bit like people rave about some bits of Swinley and I find them routine).
I think it’s a question of wants, availability and costs (not necessarily money - time, distance, commitments etc).
When I lived in the North East I didn’t visit Hamsterley as often as I might because it was s minimum two hour round trip and not significantly better than my local Woods I could actually ride to without the car. Didn’t mean I never went, it was just a bit like a big day out. It also had the huge issue that most F.C. sites with bike trails have where the riders can’t get that they aren’t under race conditions and there could be dogs, kiddies whatever round the next berm. Also a squillion threads about how bad that was. Etc.
Fully private TC’s like BPW do have very different riding conditions to any F.C. site or your local hills and woods- everyone out there is staff or has signed a liability waiver so it’s a different world from the Straaaaava point of view.
Different people like different things. Sometimes that sort of thing appeals to me, but mostly I prefer what someone above has termed ‘rambling on a bike’ with occasional silly steep fun. Whatever gets people riding is good!
Also: Berm'd corners really highlight the TC effect. Even without any skill, you can go quite fast round a berm'd corner.
Exactly!
But it's a short term hit. You get to the bottom, "high five" your riding buddies, maybe even talk about how rad you were over a coffee in the coffee shop. But, drive home, sleep, and by next morning it's gone. You remember having fun, Remember the endorphin hit, but that's it.
So what's wrong with that? You probably enjoy a beer, maybe have a favourite brand..? You don't remember every single beer you drank, but you probably still enjoy them.
and of course, doing a jump at say BPW, where it's a perfectly sculpted takeoff into a perfect length flight, into a perfect landing really isn't that difficult. I've ridden with plenty of people who can jump at trail centers but not in the real world on real trails (often, they don't even "see" the natural jumps because they haven't learnt to read a trail, just to follow one...
Even if that were true* - really, so what? Biking is about having fun, not about showing everyone how skilled you are! Is it fun? Yes. Does it harm anyone? No. Then fill yer boots!
And yet, i can remember in HD/4k detail a particular moment at ...
Yep, me too. I remember:
- Numerous dawn laps at races
- Numerous XC races
- My first 100k marathon
- My first trail centre ride
- Several other TC trips with friends
- My first time down the final descent at Brechfa
- My first modern style long distance ITT
- My second modern style long distance ITT
- Innumerable days out in the mountains
- My first tour
I'm not saying natural riding is rubbish, I'm saying that TCs can be fun as well as all the rest of it. They have qualities you don't find elsewhere, just as natural rides do.
I could describe the sections at Cwmcarn to you, how they flow and how they are so much fun.
* it's not - going properly fast at a TC takes just as much bike skill as anywhere else, you just go faster. And you know what (and I think you do going by your username) speed is fun!
[i]and by next morning it's gone. You remember having fun, Remember the endorphin hit, but that's it.[/i]
[i]You[/i], maybe!
I remember all the runs from BPW - cos I was with my kid, having fun. Was bloody awesome and I often think back and remember bits and smile and it was MONTHS ago!
And I remember most of the other trail centre rides too!
Having fun is what it's about. Otherwise I'd be a roadie!
And, regardless of how I seem to have been misrepresented, I was agreeing. I wasn't arguing that one was somehow better than the other, I was merely questioning why you'd drive past countless other, similar, trail centres.I'm not saying natural riding is rubbish, I'm saying that TCs can be fun as well as all the rest of it. They have qualities you don't find elsewhere, just as natural rides do.
Maybe my view is fashioned by the fact I've mostly ridden at the Scottish trail centres (though I've been to Kielder, Hamsterley and one in the Lake District too) but they all seem to be very similar. Maybe they're all of the same generation and I need to experience something else (e.g. BPW) to see the variety they can offer.
And to come back to a point nickc tried to make on page 1, no one who has ever been in touch with me about riding in my neck of the woods could argue that I'm secretive about the local trails and wanting to keep them for "me".
It never used to be allowed in Scotland either, FC used to bin unofficial trails, but times change.
I'm not sure if it was ever not allowed, I understand back in the mists of time before trail centres there were trails at the golfie, but it was decided inners was more suited to the development of official trails.
I think the Scottish situation with trail building on FC land is remarkable but potentially fragile, I think it'll just take one serious injury and someone to sue the FC and it'll be over, I imagine the guidelines for managing unofficial trails disallow jumps and woodwork etc in an effort to limit this potential risk for example.
Also if forestry just becomes dissolved into the Scottish government in 2019, I wouldn't be surprised if we see an end to freely being able to cut unofficial trails, like happened in Wales. But that's just speculation on a non definite event.
I think models like BPW and other private operations are the sustainable future of mtb specific trails/destinations in Scotland, it's crazy people expect underfunded, overstretched civil servants to provide a young, wealthy sector of people with what they want.
Crikey! My visits to trail centres are rarer than hen's teeth! Going via stuff logged on Strava:
Dec 2016 Gisburn (this is the nearest to me)
Aug 2016 Forest of Dean
May 2015 Innerleithen (also visited Ae and Glentress on this trip)
June 2014 Gisburn
I think it's safe to say that trail centres don't feature high in my riding priorities 😛
TC's aren't for me but I'm glad they're for other people. Means I get to have my time in wild spaces kept relatively peaceful.
Maybe my view is fashioned by the fact I've mostly ridden at the Scottish trail centres (though I've been to Kielder, Hamsterley and one in the Lake District too) but they all seem to be very similar. Maybe they're all of the same generation and I need to experience something else (e.g. BPW) to see the variety they can offer.
And there's your answer.
If you lived in London and wanted to ride 'something like Glentress' your options whilst driving north are:
[s]Swinley[/s] - nothing like it
[s]Aston Hill [/s]- nothing like it
[s]Cannock Chase[/s] - nothing like it
[s]Stainburn[/s] - awesome, but nothing like it
[s]Dalby[/s] - purgatory by flat singletrack and rubbish descents, nothing like it
[s]Gisburn[/s] - kinda close, but still not the same
[s]Kielder [/s]- nothing like it
Basically you'll get to Glentress without passing anything that's really half as good.
Wales is a different kettle of fish, coming before the 7S project they are far more varied in their surfacing and were usually designed to be challenging but with speeds kept lower, whereas the 7S trails were intended to be ridden faster and more flowing (hence the berms). I suspect if it had been the other way around and South Wales was learning from the 7S development then fewer people would travel to them.
[quote=thisisnotaspoon ]
Maybe my view is fashioned by the fact I've mostly ridden at the Scottish trail centres (though I've been to Kielder, Hamsterley and one in the Lake District too) but they all seem to be very similar. Maybe they're all of the same generation and I need to experience something else (e.g. BPW) to see the variety they can offer.
And there's your answer.
If you lived in London and wanted to ride 'something like Glentress' your options whilst driving north are:
...
Yeah. I was thinking about it when out for a walk earlier and thought it might be along those lines.
Edit: maybe I need to do a southern road trip to ride all the trail centres.....
Do people think trail centres are busy?
Saw three pairs of riders at Cwmcarn weekend before last in 2.5 hours of riding.
It's all relative. 😛
If you're used to miles of open space with not a soul in site then yes.
You really object to seeing a person every half hour?
I rarely see anyone on my natural rides btw, for reference. But I still don't mind. Having said that, last time I met people on the trails I rode with them and they showed me some cracking new trails.
I object to seeing people generally!
If you think anywhere is busy then avoid Swinley!
It's like queuing at a theme park on a sunny weekend, although having said that once you're out it's only the same few people you're leapfrogging most of the way round so it doesn't feel so busy (racing snakes flying past aside).
On the occasions I've been to Gisburn the car parks have been full or nearly so but you don't see many people once out on the trails. Presumably because most are going along at roughly the same rate other than the really fast or really slow ones so there could be another group two minutes behind and you'd never see them.
Extend that two minutes to five or ten and you could say the same about being out on natural trails. In the Dales I sometimes see one or two riders out, occasionally a bigger group but usually don't see anyone. There'll be tyre tracks from other riders so it's all timing really.
Between Xmas and New Year last year we did a loop round Ben Alder and didn't see *anyone*, cyclist or otherwise for 25hrs but that was pretty exceptional.
[quote=molgrips ]You really object to seeing a person every half hour?
Me? Goodness no. Any excuse to stop for a chat. The "outdoors" is full of interesting folk, be that other walkers/cyclists/riders or the owners and workers of the land.
I was at BPW yesterday, second visit there, I don't think I've ever seen such a vast array of riding abilities & sexes having fun on their bikes together at a MTB venue/event in 25 years of MTBing. Great vibe there, busy uplifts with uncluttered trails.
I found BPW quite unfriendly tbh, especially compared to up around Sheffield - London company men on group rides comparing strava times, wearing club shirts like they're roadies/frat groups etc - talking balls about other peoples bikes within earshot.
Perhaps not unfriendly, but definitely a different vibe - that I wasn't too used to.
Note I much prefer natural trails (rode 4 times in the Lakes last week) but I go to TCs for a reason and many TC trails are still designed for 90s hardtails vs BPW and some other TCs who've adapted to the latest rider demands/requirements.
Also, I'd say modern full sussers are well suited to the older 90s natural trails - not the modern crop of flow trails - the flow trails would be a lot more fun on a hardtail than the old rooty rocky trails of yore.
but they can't ride chunder or variable surfaces well and seem to complain alot about the lack of flow on natural and unpredictable trails, and don't really have much of a concept of what a technical climb really is.
This. Also overheard riders who seemed to able to go at a decent rate and get air - complaining about how bumpy the reds were at BPW and their lack of "flow". 😀 Take up BMX?
many TC trails are still designed for 90s hardtails
i disagree - modern TC`s are sanitising the sport. the new tails are all buff with easy/safe features so unskilled riders get a grin for their bucks.
the most popular trails locally are hte (for comparison) blue level trails. build a red/black trail and no one will ride it.
bikes are longer and skills are reducing as people cant ride tight corners, flat corners or corners without berms. all of teh techy lines locally have had the tech removed or are unused. its really sad. people need to get back to the good old days (tm) riding DJ HT`s on techy terrain in winter to get their skills back.
took a bunch of park rats up snowdon to ride the rangers and they were so unused to teh terrain on the top of the hill it was funny. (i was shit at the parks)
I love day at a park but you cant beat natural terrain. its just harder.
Yeah well, the Sheffield lot are still riding proper trails. It seems to be a softie southern thing, this obsession with blues.
The first day at Antur Stiniog and my brother and his mates cleaned the Double Blacks - blind, to warm up. 😀
I was at BPW yesterday, second visit there, I don't think I've ever seen such a vast array of riding abilities & sexes having fun on their bikes together at a MTB venue/event in 25 years of MTBing
this is nothing new up here. Glentress on a Saturday is a wide mix of ages, abilities and sexes.
took a bunch of park rats up snowdon to ride the rangers
Rangers is proper shit though. With the amount of people walking up and down it, and having to stop every 2 minutes. 😉
Tbh, I really do like Antur though - in terms of trail centres. It feels like you've actually accomplished something, whilst BPW is fun - it's like bubble gum. As others have said, I can't really remember what I actually did.
I've heard that Revolution bike park is better than BPW.
all of teh techy lines locally have had the tech removed or are unused.
This.
It's in pursuit of speed so that they don't have to brake or hang up on any features. Features only survive if they can be hit at full tilt with little to no brakes required.
We have/had a lovely run through commercial crop tree enclosure we call Endor. Its hard to ride at speed because it's a full body english trail - you have to make it flow and it's massively rewarding to get right, and if you get it wrong, it's a staccato series of momentum grabbing, front wheel deflecting deep, rough compressions and rooty entry slopes.
But, between the tree furrows, the compressions are all being filled in and it really takes the whole 3d nature of the riding out.
I blame strava. And brexiteers.
Time to start degimping trails Scienceofficer? Make our trails great again?
You can't fight against the tide. It's a numbers game and I'm firmly in the minority these days.
I'm moving back to cutting my own stuff after focussing on maintenance of existing for the last few years.
BTW, i'm not against trail centers, far from it, they provide a useful service and diversification to our sport. But to only ride TCs would be sad.
It's the difference between sparking up Spotify and putting some music in the background, and firing up your turntable, getting out a vinyl LP and LISTENING to an album, from the very first note through to the runout groove!
There's a time and place (and a mood) for both!
Making a comparison between audiophiles and mountain bikers should be worthy of a stoning.
But I guess a lot of audiophile tyoes are riding these days. 🙂
I think it's brilliant.
The natural trails round here are not really any busier, certainly by comparison.
[quote=Nobeerinthefridge]You can go into all the nuances and legalities if you want
I'm trying not too because I doubt you'd be able to grasp any of it, but you were happy to post about it when it suited your narrative.
I will however correct the misinformation you posted and provide you with a reason as too why the trails are no longer removed on sight.
I'm acutely aware that it goes on and where it goes on - I ride it all over the country, and I made a few tweaks myself today (sorry more rocks Del!)
[quote=Nobeerinthefridge]You may have a different view, cool.
My view is that providing people aren't building dangerous features in inappropriate places and causing grief with other users whats the issue?
once people start categorizing and labelling people
<London company men on group rides comparing strava times, wearing club shirts like they're roadies/frat groups >
it says something about you. You might want to think about that.
Do you think you might be labelling folk there and this might say something about you [ or is just everyone else doign it ]?
There was a DH track there for years and I'm told one of the black trails has elements of that original track in it - how true I don't know.
Yeah, it was called Gethin woods and the main thing it was known for was the gnarly rockgarden towards the bottom. There is still a section of it in there I think just after you go through the tunnel.
We used to go there from the Midlands and push up our dh bikes. Rheola, Mountain Ash etc too.
I was racing a Dragon Downhill race there and in practise I clipped my pedal on the entry boulder to the rock garden, over the bars and broke my leg.
There was a period of about a year where I knocked myself out in that section, a mate broke his arm, and then I broke my leg.
Brutal 😀
It's mostly a walk in the (bike) park nowadays.... 😆
I've heard that Revolution bike park is better than BPW.
Depends.....about 50% of your average BPW rider would s@%? themselves a new bumhole.There is a new line coming over the winter for the the mincecore. 😉
I'm trying not too because I doubt you'd be able to grasp any of it, but you were happy to post about it when it suited your narrative.I will however correct the misinformation you posted and provide you with a reason as too why the trails are no longer removed on sight
If you're going to question my intellect, at least try and ensure you know to from too. 😀
However, we do agree on your latter point.
I see a mixed crowd at gt any time I'm down and its ace
Innerleithen however seems to be more the preserve of the 18 - 40 year old male.. Don't think I've ever seen a female there in all my visits.
That's possibly because the facilities are beyond poor.. I still can't believe someone hasn't realised the potential that place has (other than the locals and riders). Decent facilities and a mechanical uplift would make that place a mecca for UK mountain biking..
If you're going to question my intellect
Resorting to grammatical errors speaks volumes.
😀
As do your shit weasel smiley posts.
It's the difference between sparking up Spotify and putting some music in the background, and firing up your turntable, getting out a vinyl LP and LISTENING to an album, from the very first note through to the runout groove!
I've finally realised that you're actually playing an ironic parody and not a real person. You had me fooled for years!
I've loved riding my bike in many places, particularly BPW, and will continue to do so regardless of the snobbery from others. I'll also continue to be the posh sounding southerner who chats to everyone on the uplift bus, regardless of their accent, bike or attire - and to the dog walkers and horse riders etc that frequent my usual riding patches.
I'll also continue loving music despite most listening happening through Sonos even though I run a high-end audio company.
Kayak23 enter the dragon is part of the old dh trail I think? and the rock garden was evil in the old dragon day's I remember having a rest there fairly often usually upside-down
Chief******?
You're kin awesome!
There has been a bit of pomposity in this thread.
Just be happy with your own riding, no need to look down on other people.
BPW is great.
Natural rides (as much as any UK riding is natural) are great.
Flow trails are great.
Slow, stuttery, tech trails are great.
It's all riding bikes, which is great.
Anything that gets people out riding their bikes is great.
If you don't like riding somewhere, don't ride there.
A few people in the thread need to get over themselves.
+1 that
Tom_W1987 -
Making a comparison between audiophiles and mountain bikers should be worthy of a stoning.
and this?
[i]It seems to be a softie southern thing, this obsession with blues.[/i]
just a left hook to the temple I reckon
Are you a t3@t if you drive a T5? 😕
tl;dr the thread, but 😀 ...
BPW definitely has had a negative impact on trail centre riding in south Wales. Speaking with people who run B&Bs and the like round Afan they say the same and find they're losing business.
It's also having an impact on general expectations of riding. Everyone wants to be full on Enduro, and when they can't do BPW they want to make everything like BPW everywhere else. Gnar trails a plenty with drops and gaps wherever possible in the likes of Surrey Hills. Dig and shred, and screw the land owners and anyone who's not rad enough 😉 . Bikes and kit are all BPW / Enduro ready. Everything is going long, slack and wide.
And I'm not sure it's a good thing. The industry will follow the market and push it further to sell more, while leaving behind the trail, xc, even all mountain riding.
IMO... with a bit of tongue in cheek here 😉
(and I do like BPW, but it's also a victim of its own success. Way too busy, somewhat overhyped now too. It's great, but not worth the cost and three month wait for a ticket, the bus queues and inadequate cafe etc facilities).
Way too busy, somewhat overhyped now too. It's great, but not worth the cost and three month wait for a ticket, the bus queues and inadequate cafe etc
I've never found the trails to be busy at BPW. I've always thought they could get away with having more people riding even when it's fully booked. Also the uplift seemed to dramatically improve a year or so ago. Been a couple of times since and barely had to wait at all, most times just straight in the van.
Agree the cafe seems permanently rammed and so I've never bothered queuing for food and just take my own lunch.
just a left hook to the temple I reckon
😆
It's always been slightly overhyped, ever since they tried to say they weren't a trail centre at the beginning. Now they're happy to accept awards for being the 'Best Trail Centre 2017'.
It really depends upon your speed down the hill as to whether you find the uplift fast, slow or just annoying. The drivers have figured out how quickly (or slowly depending upon your disposition) they need to get up and down to arrive to a full queue ready to get loaded and cut down on waiting times for them. If you're in a group and have a bi of waiting mid-hill then you probably find it fine but if you're faster or slower than that you will either end up waiting at the bottom for a bus to arrive or get there just as one leaves or join a large queue. I've had to have a chat with the management at one point after the drivers were deliberately hanging about further up the hill to avoid being the last bus of the day. I and a few other riders had to wait for nearly 30 mins for the bus to pull up for last run as the other drivers were basically blocking the uplift road and wouldn't radio down to out driver to say what was happening. This happened on 2 visits in a row so I had words before I left. Massively different to the drivers at Antur who goad you for not getting on the bus the millisecond you get down the hill or, god forbid, think about missing a run out to have a rest 😆
BPW definitely has had a negative impact on trail centre riding in south Wales. Speaking with people who run B&Bs and the like round Afan they say the same and find they're losing business.
This is definitely happening and it's pretty much out of their control. They have no say over trail developments and without decent trails there won't be any visitors.
Antur is the most efficient uplift I've used. Down, bus is loading, no queue, up, go again. That considering I'm no DHer and mince down really. Though maybe the fastest guys have to wait a little 😉
FoD is usually pretty good too.
Can't see how something that's hugely successful is a problem. Wales should deliver more. Afan could have developed the same uplift and trails but didn't. And they could have done it way before BPW. It's a market economy? Deliver what people want. BPW could improve its food!
or, god forbid, think about missing a run out to have a rest
Haha yep, been there.
Yep, it should be the stepping stone to lift the level at the other venues.
We are about to get a version here, honestly it's going to be a great lift to the area and the riding options available.
(and I do like BPW, but it's also a victim of its own success. Way too busy, somewhat overhyped now too. It's great, but not worth the cost and three month wait for a ticket, the bus queues and inadequate cafe etc facilities).
Confused. Too busy ? I went on a Saturday in July and the trails were quite empty and bus queues very short. They were running a full capacity and I didn't encounter any issues so for me it's the opposite, they have conservatively managed the yield so that it doesn't become a victim of its own success by matching number of uplift sold to capacity. That's probably what surprised me the most.
Inadequate cafe : you are VERY difficult to please. I found it superb and affordable and I am a fussy bugger.
Antur is the most efficient uplift I've used.
I can corroborate this, I got as many runs in the morning at Antur as I did in an entite day at BPW. Partly because its a quicker drive up and partly because they dont hang around till the bus is full.
I found Antur to be a better experience tbh.
Antur has a tarmac road to the top which I believe was paid for by however the zip wire business was funded - unsurprisingly minibuses are a lot quicker up that than BPW's dirt road.
And they've always called it a trail centre - here's the original press release:
http://www.cognation.co.uk/official-opening-bikepark-wales
You can't blame people for wanting all their shits and giggles without the physical effort of riding uphill, or the mental effort of having to navigate and find good trails - it's human nature to avoid the stuff we don't like or find difficult or plain boring.
I think effort and difficult are the key words here. It goes some way to explaining why the UK as whole are fat buffers, the popularity of ready to eat microwave meals, peoples' reliance on cars, personal debt and sodding ebikes. We live in an instant gratification age. Everyone wants the destination without the journey, be that looking trim for your Instafacegram, eating a jacket potato (I saw microwavable jacket potatoes the other day! I was shocked...), having money for your holiday, getting to the top of a hill or getting a buzz without actually having to put much effort in.
I love day at a park but you cant beat natural terrain. its just harder
I agree. Up until last year when I visited Afan and Nant-yr-Arien (sp?) I had never ridden at a trail centre. During that trip to sales I also ride down Snowdon. Snowdon sticks out the most in my memory.
This year I visited with my GF and we rode Afan, Bewts-y-Coed, and Coed y Brenin. All great fun but the ride through the Elan Valley and over to Rhayader was, despite the larger amount of track and tarmac, the most fun and hardest. We're not some kind of masochists, but there was certainly a greater sense of having done something than any of those days at a trail centre despite having not ridden as far.
I ride in a fair few other locations in Europe with purpose built trails and I must say that the Welsh centres offer a great day out. The facilities are usually good. There are showers for a start! For families they are fantastic. But, they are generally built so that just about anyone can ride them and they are devoted of any proper features.
Ride at La Thuile and you'll find lots of tight switchbacks.
Lots of rock gardens where line choice is key at Reschen.
Plenty of places in Finale where it's do-or-die.
I think effort and difficult are the key words here. It goes some way to explaining why the UK as whole are fat buffers, the popularity of ready to eat microwave meals, peoples' reliance on cars, personal debt and sodding ebikes. We live in an instant gratification age. Everyone wants the destination without the journey, be that looking trim for your Instafacegram, eating a jacket potato (I saw microwavable jacket potatoes the other day! I was shocked...), having money for your holiday, getting to the top of a hill or getting a buzz without actually having to put much effort in.
Cheer up, it's not that bad.
We are about to get a version here, honestly it's going to be a great lift to the area and the riding options available
Maydena? If that's what you're referring to, then yes it looks incredible!! Definitely on the bucket list for a big trip with the family in a few years 🙂
As for the tracks Sam Hill's helping them develop - I'll make no promises as to getting down quick.....
I find it laughable that people are judging a MTB venue on the quality of the cafe...speaks volumes for the state of the nation.
Missing a bus and having a rest, drivers set their speed based on the apprent skill of their passengers at BPW?! Really, I must have misread that due to the beer. Most of the drivers have never ridden a bike in anger.
At the weekend there’s about 8 buses on, you’re not supposed to catch the same one every time, they come in 2s and 3s. Also they’re told to drive at a set speed of 15mph (it think) it’s means they have to close less to fix the road and it allows them to squeeze the max number of buses in, it’s like a ballet, sort of.
So we now have a country covered in trail centres but still have all the natural trails, and lots of folks crafting and creating new ones or titivating old ones. Only STW could find the negative in this..
For the record though I agree that natural trails are more memorable, especially if they involve pushing and carrying to the top. Although the outright speed of the Blues at BPW feels really good.
And locally I will carry on building slow and techy or steep and thrutchy depending on which area of riding I feel I am weakest at (all areas sadly!)
I'd better add Trailforks to the list of positives too, awesome.
P-jay - I was talking to one of the drivers who had just started and he said they were asked to try and get a minimum amount of uplifts in per day. He was taking that as a minimum so wanted to get a few more in whereas some of the others were deliberately pacing themselves to only get in that minimum amount. It was a direct split between those who rode and those who don't according to him. He was visibly peeved off with it. As long as they arrived, loaded a full load and got in the requisite number of uplifts they have done their job.
I like BPW, it's a great facility, but it too often leaves me feeling like it's treating me as a number to balance the books. The dig crew are great to talk to and do a great job but the enthusiasm that was there at the beginning has waned somewhat and has been replaced with a bit of a corporate culture. Inevitable as the place has grown I suppose but it does grate with me.
I think effort and difficult are the key words here. It goes some way to explaining why the UK as whole are fat buffers
no, that will be the huge amounts of sugar and extra calories in every-ones food.