[Closed] The impact of BPW on our sport.

More better facilities can only popularize and encourage people into the sport which can only be good. Glad he enjoyed it.

Yes it's been a phenomenal success. Great to see.

It's a very accessible atmosphere and I agree, it's really good to see a mix of users.

Just wish they had a chairlift. 🙂

Were there many T5s in the car park?

Particularly of note was lots of females shredding,

was at Whistler this year, and one of the things that was noticeable was the greater numbers of women and family bikers, and the lack of surprise or attention that that it produced.

Love the place, agreed about the Female riders too, it was a rare day to see a female rider 10 years ago at any venue.

If there was a negative it’s become such a monster it’s taken a lot of the traffic away from Cwmcarn and Afan, okay as it stands the only tangible effect is a bit less ‘vibe’ in the car park, but I do worry when council budgets being what they are they might close them.

Just wish they had a chairlift.

One day....

Hopefully when they do they’ll have a resort like season pass available. I’d probably never leave the place.

I love BPW but it has kind of spoiled my local cycling, the local stuff I used to think was quite good now seems a bit flat and meh and I started to dislike riding up hills to get to the good downhill sections that ended too quickly.

It's probably more noticable at BPW due to the frequency of the interactions you have and the close proximity you are in with other users. The demographics in off road cycling have been shifting for the past 7 / 8 years.

If there was a negative it’s become such a monster it’s taken a lot of the traffic away from Cwmcarn and Afan, okay as it stands the only tangible effect is a bit less ‘vibe’ in the car park, but I do worry when council budgets being what they are they might close them.

Agree with this.

Its become a bit of an unstoppable behemoth which isn't necessarily good for viable competition, EU funding means they'll probably never be any either

Edit And with the increased traffic (i dread to think how busy it will be next summer) they need to try and enforce the qualifiers as when I was last rode their was some dangerously slow riders out.

The skill gap from Swinley (for e.g) to BPW is massive

I don't think I saw any women or children at BPW the first time I went, but with each visit the proportion has gone up. It's great! I noticed a lot at FoD too.

Cwmcarn is still great but Afan is a bit tired. We usually travel down on the Saturday and ride Cwmcarn, then BPW Sun/Mon.

BPW is so well run and maintained that it's kind of ruined a lot of other trail centres. I went back to Kirroughtree/Dalbeattie/Mabie this year having not been for a while and it all felt very dated. No berms on corners, trails in a bad way etc. Just fewer smiles per hour. BPW raised the bar and only a few places have kept up (Hamsterley is good).

We'll be choosing Wales instead of Scotland for next year's trips

Kayak 23..
It's nothing to do with council budgets ..and everything to do with FC budgets ..
The cutbacks have already started ..and it's only going to get worse ..

DH / enduro families

😆

We'll be choosing Wales instead of Scotland for next year's trips

It wouldn't bother me if FC cut everything to the bone, the future (up here anyway) is the Tweed valley model, Bikers building trails.

My options are either build locally, or sit and moan about lack of investment, fortunately I quite enjoy a bit of trail work.

It wouldn't bother me if FC cut everything to the bone, the future (up here anyway) is the Tweed valley model, Bikers building trails.

You're aware though that in the England/Wales regions that's not actually allowed ?

I've noticed the greater amount of females and families on bikes everywhere over the last 5 years, from Glentress to FOD before BPW started. The place has just made it much more noticeable, which is good as it has created a bit of momentum.

As others have said though BPW has started to suck the crowds and funding out of the other venues to their detriment. Cwmcarn wouldn't have had a facelift in them last few years if it wasn't for some robust campaigning, it would be in a similar state as Afan otherwise.

BPW is great and does act as a halo project for South Wales but it needs to be monitored so as not to destroy the legacy the last 15 years have created. If we're not careful we'll be in danger of creating a Whistler effect of everyone being used to built trails with uplift only. Great in it's own way (I like an alpine holiday as much as everyone else) but we need to make sure we keep having loads of options so that visitors make a weekend/week out of their visits, that's where the money is for he local economy.

Totally understand what you are saying Nobeer ..and that's all fine and dandy until someone from the FC health & safety dept steps in and closes things down ..
A decision with regard to new sections of trail has been taken just across the border where contractors must be used instead of volunteers ..but make hay while you can ..

I've never understood why someone would drive to Scotland and just ride the trail centres. I'm not saying TC riding is a bad thing, but they're all much of a muchness and it seems like a lot of effort just to ride around another forest.

Go back 7-8 years and 7-Stanes were incredible compared to anything else. Turn up, follow signs and ride incredible trails. Bike shop and cafe available if needed. No faffing with maps (pre-gps) and getting lost. Was easily worth a 5hr drive for me. Now I'd like lift assist, graded trails and different features so I can spend half a day practicing jumps etc. Now of course there's golfie etc which is very different but the 7-Stanes themselves are dated and much, much quieter than they used to be

I've never understood why someone would drive to Scotland and just ride the trail centres. I'm not saying TC riding is a bad thing, but they're all much of a muchness and it seems like a lot of effort just to ride around another forest.

As someone on here said - O forget who but about the lakes and riding trail centres- its like going into a brothel and asking for a kiss

RE BPW I think that what has happened is that lots of "cyclists" will be cyclist" if they never have to ride a bike uphill EVER and they can just shred Gnar. Not saying its a good or a bad thing but it does not interest me.

I've never understood why someone would drive to Scotland and just ride the trail centres. I'm not saying TC riding is a bad thing, but they're all much of a muchness and it seems like a lot of effort just to ride around another forest.

Colin, just accept that you and I and our ilk are ploughing a lonely furrow out in the hills.

To me it's like going to The Beacon climbing wall and saying you've been climbing in Wales. Each to their own. I like the brothel/kiss comment Junkyard 😆

You're aware though that in the England/Wales regions that's not actually allowed ?

It never used to be allowed in Scotland either, FC used to bin unofficial trails, but times change.

I've never understood why someone would drive to Scotland and just ride the trail centres. I'm not saying TC riding is a bad thing, but they're all much of a muchness and it seems like a lot of effort just to ride around another forest.

Maybe because you don't live in the south of England where there are no trail centres to ride regularly. Riding the South Downs bridleways every weekend for 20 years - that's much of a muchness!
Did the week of riding the 7 Stanes a few years back and it was brilliant. The trail centres were all different too.

Colin, just accept that you and I and our ilk are ploughing a lonely furrow out in the hills.

It's odd isn't it, on the one hand some of us like to have the image of intrepid bikers maintaining some lost "spirit" of off road biking while massaging their sense of superiority at the masses trotting off for a bit of instant fun, but would be the first to complain if "their" trails were damaged or busy with those same folk... 🙄

Im definitely NOT having a go at folk who only ride trail centres. As above, I'm just curious as to what additional "experience" Is gained by driving to one 5 hours away.

Edit; 1: DezB, yeah I can see the desire to get to a TC if there's nothing local.

Edit 2; nickc- you've completely misinterpreted my post.

I guess there's still a bit of novelty and just the fun in being somewhere different when not actually riding a bike too....

Folk might even think that the 7 Stanes were built in a line along the border to distract southerners from the treasures beyond 🙂

But to the OP, the number of of girls and women cycling has increased throughout the country. I'm not seeing that BPW has had any impact other than locally.

Each to their own.

Indeed. Thing you have to remember is that MTBing is the overlapping of several sports really. Extreme sport/gnar shredding, outdoor pursuit, and fitness type sport. But we can do all three with the same kit and even in the same ride, which is ace!

I was fully prepared for another grumpy thread when I read the title. But yes, great to see more people out.

Absolutely Moly, some days I fancy 'rambling on a bike', some a trail centre, or a days hike a bike, and some days just sessioning a local fun spot.

tis all good, but I'd not be too keen on just sticking to one of those.

the 7-Stanes themselves are dated and much, much quieter than they used to be

Been to glentress on a weekend recently? As busy as its ever been IMO. Some new trails wouldn't go amiss though, I agree with the dated tag.

Not much chance of that happening though - Nobeer has it re rider built trails.

Riding the South Downs bridleways every weekend for 20 years - that's much of a muchness!

You must have missed Steyning...

Im definitely NOT having a go at folk who only ride trail centres.

yeah you are, even if you don't think you are. In print, statements that start "I've never understood why..." imply superiority, they imply that it's a non question.

I'm sure you can understand completely why folk would choose a trail centre over a more natural ride, it's blindingly obvious to even the most dimwitted and you'd have to be pretty dishonest with yourself and others if you pretend you can't. Which is why the "I don't understand" statement is so disingenuous

Been going to Afan and Cwmcarn for years. Had they been developed then I'm sure they to wouldn't now be in decline.

Numbers in the sport? My local area is rammed at the weekends and pretty busy during the weeks. Only now has the FC finally expanded the car park after local complaints. Still little real inward investment or drive from the management.

We're seeing evolution of MTBing and the speed of change is accelerating.

You can't blame people for wanting all their shits and giggles without the physical effort of riding uphill, or the mental effort of having to navigate and find good trails - it's human nature to avoid the stuff we don't like or find difficult or plain boring.

Trail riding started as XC which has now morphed into pretty much just racing, and trail riding became riding up hill and down dale, which has now morphed into almost exclusively trail centre riding. The term of reference for trail is no longer bridleway, it's trail centre.

Old skool hackers like me are in the minority these days. My local hills have a clearly defined area where enduro and DH riding happens with far greater frequency than it ever did, and the 'transfer' routes to areas nearby are showing much less use. We see fewer riders outside of the main area too.

This year and last, some of the really good Singletrack away from the central area is grassing over for the first time I can recall in 17 years.

I get why.

Turn up somewhere you've never been with a map you don't really know how to use, with some hints and tips on where you ought to head to, run the distinct possibility of getting lost, taking ages to get around a route and miss a bunch of the best riding, or turn up to a venue with convenient parking and facilities, ride trails that a good in virtually all weathers with way marking and guaranteed good riding.

It's trail centres that have changed our sport, not BPW. BPW is just the latest and most sophisticated iteration of the trail centre yet.

As above, I'm just curious as to what additional "experience" Is gained by driving to one 5 hours away.

It's just a different place innit. Simply going somewhere is fun in itself, for me. I enjoyed my bike ride of moorland trails and a bit of forest fire-road in Scotland, despite having plenty of moorland trails and fire road here in Wales. It's all good.

nickc- you really need to read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote. I've ridden a few trail centres in my time but I've never had the desire to drive past several others to get to one specifically (unless it was to meet some mates there). As above, I get it if there's nothing local to you.

"I've never understood why..." imply superiority, they imply that it's a non question.

I would say I dont understand - that means I understand - in the sense i could state it- but I dont understand WHY- in the sense that I dont "get" it. Fallacy of equivocation "understand does not mean the same thing in both sentences.

You can't blame people for wanting all their shits and giggles without the physical effort of riding uphill

Again blame is too strong and its their choice how they "ride" but to me the term ride and cyclist imply doing something other than using gravity to propel you downhill after a car ride up hill. Either way what they do has got nothing to do with me and they are free to do as they please and I am happy if the mountains remain empty of people as that is part of the appeal for me.

YMMV

@nickc - not really. It's great that folk are getting out. It (BPW and trail centres) is just not what I prefer. No feeling of superiority about it. I'd love to see more people riding away from trail centres but understand why many won't.

@molgrips - I think MTB has morphed into several overlapping genres (cue a Venn diagram) it's a bit like climbing where you've bouldering, sport, trad, alpine, etc. Some only do one genre, others do several, a few do them all. I was never into bouldering for example - mainly due to wrecking my knees when falling off.

've ridden a few trail centres in my time but I've never had the desire to drive past several others to get to one specifically (unless it was to meet some mates there

For soemthing slightly different ?

BPW rides nothing like Llandegla, which is nothing like Swinley, which is nothing like Afan... Sure they're all riding, all riding trails up and down, but that's as close to being related they are.
Different grip, different features, more/less techincial, more/less climbing, more/less difficult.

It's like saying, if i've done trackdays why don't i just ride Silverstone as it's close, that means i'm not riding Donington, Rockingham, Cadwell, Spa, Portimao, Jerez.... They're all just tracks.

Why go to BPW over local trails? Same reason I'd go to Whistler or Valnord etc. Its a great experience. I still ride 90% on my local trails. But if your not local with only the weekend to ride in I'd plump for a trail centre to get the maximum bang for my buck.

TBH I always pass Cwmcarn and go to Afan - it has better and more trails despite the extra drive. Food was better to!

nickc- you really need to read what I wrote and not what you think I wrote

😆 Edinburgh defence? I've read it again, and it still comes across as pretty snooty. You might want to think about how you express yourself. In fact, have a go...

As above, I get it if there's nothing local to you.

I live in the Calder Valley, I'm willing to bet I've more and better riding than 90% of the population, I still go to TCs for a huge number of reasons.

[quote=Nobeerinthefridge]It never used to be allowed in Scotland either, FC used to bin unofficial trails, but times change.

It still isn't. There's no legal right to go and dig up land you don't own. The land owner will however weigh up the various risks vs the resources required to remove it / maintain it / monitor them and act from there.

Landowners can give permission for people to build in areas - ie golfie - and are more likely to give that permission if theres a benefit to the local community - which there is in the Tweed Valley - but it will come with conditions.

I've ridden a few trail centres in my time but I've never had the desire to drive past several others to get to one specifically

Which ones, out of interest? Many are the same, but many are different. Cwmcarn and Afan are somewhat different experiences, Brechfa definitely is. How do you choose which big natural route in the mountains to ride? You don't do the same one all the time do you?

😆 Edinburgh defence? I've read it again, and it still comes across as pretty snooty. You might want to think about how you express yourself.

Oh the irony how do you think that sentence comes across?