[Closed] The (e-)apocalypse is nigh!

Don't fancy having one burst in flames while charging like some of the cheap lights have been know too though 😉 Would probably leave a fair sized crater.
EDIT: do those macks come in pink? 😆

one thing I know for certain, when you run out of charge mid ride, they are a complete bastard of a lump to get back to the start point of the ride.

tho you could always buy a 2nd battery (£600 for a bosch) to carry round as a back up, like I did.

I can buy into that with caveat as long those medically or injury afflicted are exempt.

nemesis, pleas name me some good lights, that cost only a few quid?

Seriously anyone who hasn't ridden one should get a test ride to get their heads round how they actually work & their limitations.

They're fun as in novelty value...the reality is that they're a 50lb MTB.

People on here regularly fret about whether their bike is a couple of pounds over or under 30lb...people on here regularly talk about how the Fox-34 is crap for a long travel MTB these days.

The one i rode was a Haibike with a Fox-34...on a 50lb machine.

...i wont go into detail but the anaolgy of being pushed from behind works, thats a pretty good description.

Dynamically the bike is crap....once the novelty of 'ooh look how easy that climb was' wears off you're left with a 50lb MTB with a crap fork on the front....and one that is at the limits of what the brakes can handle to boot. 😯

I can see a place for them re. rehabilitation of the injured or unwell but for those who actually enjoy mountain biking they're simply not good enough bikes to enjoy riding all the time.

With regard to the NIMBY's....they will focus one the fact it has a 250w motor...that can be deristricted.
They wont care about the semantics of 'pedal-assist'....to the anti-brigade this is now a motorised MTB regardless of how that motor is used, the fact it doesnt directly drive the rear wheel will be glossed over....and as for racing against non E-bikes, dont make me laugh....that is simply not fair, human power vs human power + 250w...nope, they should have a seperate class cheers.

well put deviant.

Well, ok, I'll call 'a few quid' about £25 for an MJ808 (though I have seen those at £15 occasionally).

The point stands though, things will inevitably head down the direction of lighter/cheaper/more duration. Exactly how long that takes to get to a certain point will be subject to debate but it will happen.

Wouldn't be able to keep up with the team guys other than uphill on the ebike, regarding the forks see my earlier posts, set of 36s would have made it more manageable.
Brakes weren't an issue, more the level of grip from the tyres and the 'push' you mentioned on the front, soft rears got shredded fair quickly too due to power being put out on rocky surfaces round south wales.
Media wise, yes I agree with your point, however on the trails I doubt many people would notice what type of bike it is though.

and as for racing against non E-bikes, dont make me laugh....that is simply not fair, human power vs human power + 250w...nope, they should have a seperate class cheers

Yeah, I don't think anyone is suggesting they would be allowed in the same class are they? Just one of those hyperbolic statements thrown out there to divert attention form other poorly argued points.

With regard to the NIMBY's....they will focus one the fact it has a 250w motor...that can be deristricted.
They wont care about the semantics of 'pedal-assist'

you're right of course, but that stems from misunderstanding and misinformation (deliberate or otherwise), [b]if[/b] you can get to the point where people understand how they do work then anyone arguing that point will be rightly shot down as misinformed, and the illegality of using unrestricted bikes should be dealt with as that, illegal use by the minority, and not a reason to persecute the law abiding.

Or, take the other tack and fight back by complaining how they are trying to persecute and restrict the use of valid, safe and non-damaging ways for injured, disabled and less able people enjoying the same activities, it becomes much harder to argue for a banning when you portray it in that light, as the nasty redsocks persecuting the disabled 😈

As with all things like this it's all about the spin you put on it, but right now, while they are in their infancy is the time to dispel myth and misunderstanding.

Having seen my disabled 8 year old son struggle with a kids' e-bike I can tell you that you don't just sit on them and press a button and be whisked away into the sunset. You have to ride it like a normal bike. I'm watching this genre of cycling with great interest and if it costs £2/3k to get him riding with me that's money well spent. Bring it on.

soft rears got shredded fair quickly too due to power being put out on rocky surfaces round south wales.

Bit worrying to think what they might do to softer trails then?

IHNRAEBADWTTYVM

Bit worrying to think what they might do to softer trails then?

Not an issue I came across while riding mud, like I said couldn't get the rear to spin even when trying to prevoke it, had the bike for a month or so and had tested (played) with it on a fair few trails and conditions.
Gummy DH/trail tyres come apart pretty quick with normal riding in the valleys.

Bit worrying to think what they might do to softer trails then

About as worrying as people mashing a spinny gear on their normal MTB through soft trails, or inappropriate skidding etc.

I'm not saying it's a non-issue, but again it comes back to the kind of people that will/do ride bikes like this are unlikely to be putting down max power anyway, they'll be roughly equivalent to a normal gnarcore MTBer, you're not going to see a sudden uptake of super fit cyclists suddenly take up eBiking.

Seriously, take Loco's advise and try one, get a feel for how they actually work, and how much assist they actually give, it's always better to be informed 🙂

[i]it's always better to be informed[/i]

You know this is stw, right?

amedias, all spot on imo, good points well made. E bikes imo are either road-legal pedelecs that are nothing to worry about or they're in the same group as mopeds, 'crossers etc - neither is any threat to current bike access. Let the anti-bike grumps and nimbys moan, it's what they're there for.
(ridden some road-legal e bikes)

I think the problem is that e-bikes are a little misunderstood. It's kind of like comparing real ale and lager or red wine and white wine - one's never going to replace the other, but they both have their place.

I was like most people completely anti-ebike until October last year when we went to Granada and my girlfriend booked us on a tour of the city and mountains which used e-bikes. What I realised is that it can still be hard work if you want it to be, you pick the amount of assistance you require 1-3 (or no assistance if you really want to ride a 22kg bike up a mountain track). The main advantage is that you can see far more in 3 hours than you otherwise would with pedal power alone - so I think they have a purpose.

Would I buy one myself and take it to Llandegla or the Peak District? -No, that's not really what they're for. Would I consider hiring one if I was touring in the alps and had a limited number of days and wanted to go off road- possibly, yes! Especially if I was with a mixed ability group and the purpose was more about taking in the surroundings rather than riding principally for exercise.

I do suspect we might see a few Ebike related injuries, when less fit, less skilled peeps riding these fast and heavy bikes "get it wrong" and come a cropper! (i REALLY don't fancy getting hit on the back of the head by a 50lb ebike when i go OTB!)

We need to look at them as pedal assisted motor bikes rather than motor assisted bicycles.

Wow, those "speed unlimiting" dongles are a nice little earner! £150 for a total of £1 worth of electronics (just a frequency "divide by two")!

zippykona - Member
We need to look at them as pedal assisted motor bikes rather than motor assisted bicycles.

Well, you can look at them however you choose but if you'd actually ridden one you'd realise that they're (currently at least) actually nothing like that...

wot no machine gun?

Is anyone on this thread involved with the promotion, sales or business of ebikes? Just so we know like.

Watch it ton!

Wrecker - Not me FWIW.

With regard to the NIMBY's....they will focus one the fact it has a 250w motor...that can be deristricted.
They wont care about the semantics of 'pedal-assist'....to the anti-brigade this is now a motorised MTB regardless of how that motor is used,

Well put

It's also worth pointing out that the people we're going to come up against on this issue don't care about the subtle differences between motorbikes, e-bikes and mountain bikes, they want to get rid of ALL bikes in [b][i]'THIER'[/b][/i] countryside and they'll use the fact that to the general public bike + motor = motorbike as a very effective stick to beat us with and try and get us all banned.

I have ridden several e-bikes, they were hilarious but I am hugely worried by what impact the offroad versions could have on the freedom to go MTB'ing in this country considering how vociferous the anti-brigade are and how sensitive access to some of our most treasured riding spots (Surrey Hills anyone?) is.

Is anyone on this thread involved with the promotion, sales or business of ebikes? Just so we know like.

I'm not as I think you'll have guessed from my posts, just giving you what I found from my time on one

not me. owned 2 through illness. they were super, but got rid as soon as I was fixed.

I reckon some of the haterz would love em too if they got ill, and ebikes kept em riding.

There is a lot of misinformation going around, and as a result a lot of poorly formed opinions. The vote on the front page is already being won by "I don't like electric bikes and have not ridden one".

Caveat- I used to sell electric bikes, I now no longer work in the bike industry but maintain that they are a good thing. I was skeptical before I spent a decent amount of time on one. I now work as a geologist and don't sip the kool-aid of the bike companies.

As stated above, all comparisons to motor bikes are unreasonable. You have to work to keep the bike moving, you can't just sit there. Also the assistance is limited to a speed which you are likely to exceed on a lot of terrain pointing anything other than uphill. On rough tracks where you'd be going slower it'd be advisable to turn off the electric assist as it may give you more of a boost than you need.

So, they can't go faster than a normal bike downhill. Which is where most confrontation in our sport will occur. I doubt any walker will have been whacked going uphill by a speeding cyclist. Similarly, the thing riding the bike still has a brain with which it can register that there are walkers ahead and slow down. Up most uphills you are unlikely to be doing near the top speed- it is still hard work to pedal the bike, but you are assisted.

They don't put down much more power than a normal bike, and are not likely to chew up the trails compared to a normal cyclist. Especially in the volumes that will be sold- they aren't going to become the next enduro bike.

This opens up our sport to more people who would not be able to do it, older people, people with disabilities and illnesses that mean they could not normally cover larger distances, people who are injured. I don't see how that's a bad thing.

They will really shine as commuter bikes rather than MTBs- someone who wants to get to work cheaply but doesn't want to get to work sweaty and has a 10 mile commute to cover now has a genuine alternative to a car. The shop I worked in sold most e-bikes to people like this who wanted to ditch the car but had a distance they could not reasonably commute as someone who wasn't a cyclist, and wasn't getting into cycling for fitness.

Oh, and I have no business interest in offroad E-bikes, which you probably have already gathered.

I'm not as I think you'll have guessed from my posts, just giving you what I found from my time on one

It's also worth pointing out that the people we're going to come up against on this issue don't care about the subtle differences between motorbikes, e-bikes and mountain bikes, they want to get rid of ALL bikes in 'THIER' countryside and they'll use the fact that to the general public bike + motor = motorbike as a very [b]in[/b]effective stick to [s]beat us with[/s] [b]wave while moaning pointlessly[/b] and try[b]ing futile attempts to gain any credibility[/b] and get us all banned.

Is anyone on this thread involved with the promotion, sales or business of ebikes? Just so we know like.

Well put

It's also worth pointing out that the people we're going to come up against on this issue don't care about the subtle differences between motorbikes, e-bikes and mountain bikes, they want to get rid of ALL bikes in 'THIER' countryside and they'll use the fact that to the general public bike + motor = motorbike as a very effective stick to beat us with and try and get us all banned.

I have ridden several e-bikes, they were hilarious but I am hugely worried by what impact the offroad versions could have on the freedom to go MTB'ing in this country considering how vociferous the anti-brigade are and how sensitive access to some of our most treasured riding spots (Surrey Hills anyone?) is.

This!

IHREB

But it was a modified old MTB with a throttle and custom built drivetrain. It was great fun. The chap who built it said he often rides it to the shops.

If ebikes become a problem on Strava, they'll probably add an extra category for them. It already has loads beyond ride and run.

Think most of the hate is from the trail gods that will have spent 4-5 grand on an boutique bike and are upset they might get passed by a biffer on a cheaper bike with a motor. Add fatbike to ebike you get the perfect recipe to wind these people up.

I would have thought that with the e-assist they could potentially be smoother uphill than a normal bike and potentially cause less damage. Especially if they are a fat-bike.

Personally I don't have a problem with them provided they stay speed restricted, as without it there is the potential for some very high speed accidents.

If it gets people out who wouldn't be able to otherwise then great. If other people want to use them anyway I still don't have a problem. What difference does it make to me? Maybe those people will switch to a normal bike after e-biking for a bit. Maybe they won't.

I don't give a crap about Strava times and I don't see the point. Most of the time my best sense of satisfaction is competing against myself. The rest of the time it's having fun with mates and making sure you're not the last one down the hill/to the pub. But making sure you all make it safe and sound. If a mate is best on an e-bike then so be it, it make it more a challenge for the rest of us to make sure we beat him/her.

doh
Think most of the hate is from the trail gods that will have spent 4-5 grand on an boutique bike

You called?? lol!

Seriously though, i'm not sure i class ANY kind of motor assisted two wheeled vehicle in the same class as my mountain bike? I mean, my current local MTB loop takes me about 45mins,but i could probably do it in 15mins on an Enduro Motorbike. But why would i ever compare them? As soon as ANY significant power is coming from a source that isn't your legs, it's not a pedal powered device. Perhaps i should enter the TDF on a R1 with a couple of cranks and pedals stuck to the side? I'd make those 60kph stage average speeds look WELL slow! 😉

Just out of interest Skydragon, have you ridden one?

I get the fact it's a modest power assist rather than press a button and shred. I also respect the fact that for some disabled people, an e-bike may offer a way of experiencing cycling which they might not otherwise be able to do so.

But I still stand by the view that if the average Joe starts buying an e-bike as a way to experience MTB riding (possibly fuelled by the belief it will be physically easier) then we are going to see a whole load of problems. If MTB e-bikes start becoming mainstream, I personally believe this is a bad thing as per my OP.

As already pointed out, when you get too old to pedal, there is the option of stopping riding (the route I will choose in the not too distant future)

doh - Member
Add fatbike to ebike you get the perfect recipe to wind these people up.

[img] [/img]

As soon as ANY significant power is coming from a source that isn't your legs, it's not a pedal powered device.

E-bikes do not add [i]significant[/i] power. They add a small amount.

I also don't buy that average joes will buy them. They will cost a lot for a good one for a very long time.

It's still added power from another source and it's potentially 250w to boot....that's significant in my book.

There's a reason the bike weighs about 20lbs more than a normal bike and that's because of the battery and motor....it's there working away, it ain't just the rider on an e-bike but nice try!

Mark's video on the main page seems to suggest it is a significant amount of power. I'm not sure a small amount of power would be enough to smash strava times on a 50lb bike.

munrobiker

E-bikes do not add significant power. They add a small amount.

You'll note i carefully used the word "significant"! Whilst in the grand scheme of things, 250watts is just 1/3 of a horsepower, and tiny in the modern world, as a typical "hobby" MTB rider, i average something around 200watts of power on my rides.
Hence an Ebike of 250watts peak is able to double my average power output for the duration of my ride. That IS significant!

(and quite clearly why riding one immediately gives you KOMs. If the power added was "insignificant" then you wouldn't get a KOM if you were previously the un-assisted KOM holder)

[img] [/img]

I'm curious.. Who are these disabled people who will be 'allowed' to benefit from an ebike? Because it occurred to me as I rode to work this morning that if you can't ride a normal bike you are not going to be able to ride an ebike.

Chronic fatigue is the one that springs to my mind Mark.

Still not convinced. Chronic fatigue is pretty debilitating and riding an ebike is still pretty strenuous. It just allows you to get up technical climbs faster. I think there's a considerable underestimation from the people who have not ridden an ebike just how much effort you still have to put in.

Now I know that in the video I shot I deliberately went out to try and poach as many KOMs as I could to make a point but it's interesting to note that no matter how hard I tried on the road I couldn't get in to the top half of any of the road sections. eBikes are not going to affect roadies and their KOM's simply due to the fact that they offer no assistance above 15mph, which is pretty slow for a high achieving Strava roadie. I was also no where near any decent times on any of the DH sections either. Techy, off-road climbs are a different kettle of fish. That's where the Strava damage will be done.

occurred to me as I rode to work this morning that if you can't ride a normal bike you are not going to be able to ride an ebike.

someone with a heart problem, or asthma?

Did you see the link about de-limitting them? Essentially just tweek the speedo so it "thinks" it's always under 15mph.

I'm curious.. Who are these disabled people who will be 'allowed' to benefit from an ebike? Because it occurred to me as I rode to work this morning that if you can't ride a normal bike you are not going to be able to ride an ebike.

I thought this too when I saw you huffing and puffing in that vid TBH.

Sounds like Ton on this thread uses one, so maybe he can explain how it's better than a pushbike for him as somebody with health problems?

I've got a pretty strong opinion on the issue but I'm willing to listen to all sides and I appreciate Loco setting the record straight on trail damage.

For reference, although 250W sounds pretty small, at 15mph, it's equivalent to the rider pushing the pedals around with 20.6Kg of force (assuming 34/13 ratio, 26" wheels (no kittens were harmed etc etc) and 175mm cranks).

Whilst that isn't quite a "stand in the pedals and slog it out" effort i doubt too many people would consider than kind of additional force insignificant 😉

(in reality, because we don't pedal in perfect circles, it will be equivalent to rather more effort during just the efficient pedal down stroke part of the crank rotation)

Who are these disabled people who will be 'allowed' to benefit from an ebike?

The bike is heavier so you have an overhead of power required just to get to being equivalent to an unpowered bike. For arguments sake lets say a bike weight is 15% of of the all-up weight and ignoring wind resistance etc at slow speeds uphill is 15% of the power. If that increases to 25% of the weight but, again for round numbers, lets say the e-assist doubles the available power then you have say a 60% increase in available power assuming the person is the same power output.

But I am not sure how many of those bikes can output 250W for say a 3-5hr ride? assuming the time split is 50% climbing, 30% flat and the rest down hill will they have to be on the lower power mode?

Think most of the hate is from the trail gods that will have spent 4-5 grand on an boutique bike and are upset they might get passed by a biffer on a cheaper bike with a motor. Add fatbike to ebike you get the perfect recipe to wind these people up.

Think that's bad, you should see it when you pass them in a 4 wheeled DH bike 😉

But I am not sure how many of those bikes can output 250W for say a 3-5hr ride? assuming the time split is 50% climbing, 30% flat and the rest down hill will they have to be on the lower power mode?

Haibikes with Bosch motors are all about that, uphill and along flat to get going to 15mph handy, downhill power assist only good out of corners & a pain when putting an additional pedal stroke in as can get a slightly delayed surge of power which made me overshoot a corner or 2 downhill on steep techy stuff

Would I buy one myself and take it to Llandegla or the Peak District? -No, that's not really what they're for.

What are these e-bikes with 6" travel and disc brakes for then?

It depends on your level of chronic fatigue/whatever illness, but I don't think if you do have a disability and buy an e-bike you will be tearing up Jacob's Ladder, e-bike or otherwise.

My experience of an e-bike up a steep but smooth hill (I suspect if you had an illness you'd still be going for the easiest way up) was that it let you maintain a normal speed with minimum effort. If you hammer it you will be able to go up to the speed limiter, but someone with a problem won't be doing that.

I still think the biggest factor in the e-bike debate is the idiot on top. If you are an idiot, you will be an idiot on an e-bike, as you would be on a normal bike. Fortunately idiots on bikes are in a minority. Most people are not idiots and will not be tearing up trails at the limit of the electric assist.

Daveyboywonder- the main market, which appears to be on the Continent, is for people having really big days out. Bigger than they would otherwise have, because now they have an e-bike.

How will they get us banned though?

Mainly by lobbying Landowners to forbid bikes from their land (i,e, Hurtwood, Woburn Sands) by encouraging councils to forbid bikes from parks (i.e. Stanmer Park) and by discouraging any further access when it is proposed.

Most of us use the Bridleway network but generally this isn't where the fun is and have sections or areas of trail we use that only exist due to the goodwill, tolerance or apathy of the landowner be it the NT, Council or private individuals. It's these bits that will suffer if the NIMBY's manage to use E-bikes to lever open the debate about local two-wheeled access.

These people are admittedly few in number but they tend to have an axe to grind, plenty of time on their hands and the editor of the local rag on speed dial.

Can they get MTB'ing forbidden outright? Highly unlikely, but if given the opportunity they can certainly make life a lot less fun and in areas where MTB'ing access is dependent on local goodwill they'll be a significant factor for the 'arguments against.'

eBikes are not going to affect roadies and their KOM's simply due to the fact that they offer no assistance above 15mph, which is pretty slow for a high achieving Strava roadie.

Well it'd get you this KOM:
http://www.strava.com/activities/162566215/segments/3773008169

Is anyone on this thread involved with the promotion, sales or business of ebikes? Just so we know like

Not me!

I'm curious.. Who are these disabled people who will be 'allowed' to benefit from an ebike?

People with, in no particular order:

heart conditions
breathing difficulties (asthma/reduced lung capacity/other)
debilitating muscle disorders
damaged/malformed/incomplete limbs
fatigue related conditions that limit output
other things!

Not to mention those recovering from injuries (internal and external) to rebuild strength and fitness but outside and not indoors!

The beauty of them is that they offer access to the terrains and distance/duration of ride that otherwise may be beyond normal ability, yes you still need to have a certain amount of physical ability but the benefits and extension capabilities are very real.

What are these e-bikes with 6" travel and disc brakes for then?

I suspect they are good for hammering downhill in alpine areas where riding to the top would otherwise be exhausting.

I don't think the arguments about eBikes helping to get normal bikes banned holds up, if it ever came down to such a decision then it would be very easy to have a clear demarcation point and only ban bikes with some kind of motor assist, and even that would be a hard sell when presented with the facts.

Even in very contentious and controversial areas such bans have to be supported by fact, case study, and law. They might try to use it as leverage but it is easily countered when actually required and the all-ability access side of it is also a very strong ball in 'our' court.

Private land of course is another matter, and hence why it's important to make sure the myth and misinformation doesn't propagate, and as evidenced in this thread 'we' are not helping ourselves by helping to spread it within in our community!

Can they get MTB'ing forbidden outright? Highly unlikely, but if given the opportunity they can certainly make life a lot less fun and in areas where MTB'ing access is dependent on local goodwill they'll be a significant factor for the 'arguments against.'

Innit.

The idea of city boys tearing up the trails in the Surrey Hills on de-restricted e-bikes may turn out to be wide of mark, but the anti-bike militants are hardly going to trouble themselves to look into the nitty gritty of how they work.

It's bikes with motors and big ****-off tyres and that's all they'll be interested in knowing.

I suspect they are good for hammering downhill in alpine areas where riding to the top would otherwise be exhausting.

Except they're not that much fun downhill compared to a normal trail bike IMO

Innit.

The idea of city boys tearing up the trails in the Surrey Hills on de-restricted e-bikes may turn out to be wide of mark, but the anti-bike militants are hardly going to trouble themselves to look into the nitty gritty of how they work.

It's bikes with motors and big ****-off tyres and that's all they'll be interested in knowing.

With a full charge on turbo mode, the bosch motored bike had enough charge for 3 BPW offroad climbs, if derestricted it'd be about half that. So 3 climbs to the top of Barry know best approx I'd guess and slower down it than a 9 grand carbon ego chariot 😉 Less if you go to the cake shop en route

Firstly, I haven't ridden an ebike. I can see that they could be fun though.

Having said that, my concern is over access as others have already mentioned. I understand but don't buy the argument about it being pedal assist rather than motorised. The pedal assist bit and the cutout at >15mph can both be over ridden with a bit of tinkering as far as I can see.

Fundamentally, if it has a motor it is motorised.

can both be over ridden with a bit of tinkering as far as I can see

and the bike then becomes illegal to use in that manner.

This is a problem, and it will need to be dealt with somehow*, but basing decisions and opinions on potential illegal misuse is a bit wide of the mark.

[b]if [/b]people do illegal things then you deal with that accordingly, not the legal use.

*no idea how really other than going after the source of such mods, not even sure what the penalty would be for someone using a de-resticted bike if caught and actually taken through proper process? anyone know?

Hatter I do see how that situation could start to develop but with all the positives of cycling in parks and permissable private land I just don't believe that a couple of idiots on e-mtbs will get us all banned - there's many more idiots on normal mtbs that haven't got us banned in the last decade or more. Look at all the issues at Woburn or Surrey hills with trail digging, horse-scaring stories etc, some idiocy, mainly just a bit of trail-cheekiness and all the grey inbetween, still no ban. Not that there won't be but imo it's unlikely to be due to the existence of e-bikes. They just don't add any more risk or percieved danger than current bikes or trails built that pop out blindly onto bridleways or FPs, etc.

The older/weaker riders enjoying some pedal-assisted fresh air are a harder lot to demonise too, it's a PR-lose battle to get MTB access removed due to e-bikes generally. There's some chat among green-laners about buying E-MTBs in response to the lack of motorbike access but I suspect that's a blip in sales compared to the number of riders out most weekends.

Except they're not that much fun downhill compared to a normal trail bike IMO

Yep, it was different, like riding a badly setup & suspended DH bike from about 1995 😉

Let's be honest, who here wouldn't like to try an e-bike with a 2.5kW motor?

I'm curious.. Who are these disabled people who will be 'allowed' to benefit from an ebike?

People with, in no particular order:

heart conditions
breathing difficulties (asthma/reduced lung capacity/other)
debilitating muscle disorders
damaged/malformed/incomplete limbs
fatigue related conditions that limit output
other things!

Not to mention those recovering from injuries (internal and external) to rebuild strength and fitness but outside and not indoors!

The beauty of them is that they offer access to the terrains and distance/duration of ride that otherwise may be beyond normal ability, yes you still need to have a certain amount of physical ability but the benefits and extension capabilities are very real.

Look at all the issues at Woburn or Surrey hills with trail digging, horse-scaring stories etc, some idiocy, mainly just a bit of trail-cheekiness and all the grey inbetween, still no ban

Not yet, but it's come pretty damn close a few times and the "MTB's are the thin end of the wedge for motorbikes" argument is one I've heard time and time again, even when I was sitting in Village Hall meetings about whether or not to ban riding at Woburn Sands well over a decade ago, long before the existence of E-bikes.

Whilst MTBs will generally be grudgingly tolerated motorbikes are generally seen as beyond the pale, putting clear blue water between "nice quiet, safe" MTB's and "nasty noisy, damaging" motorbikes was often key to winning the argument and the fact that in the public consciousness E-bikes blur the lines between the two is what makes them potentially problematic.

Some general legislation clarifying the access status of E-bikes distinct from MTB's would be a start but I can't see it being given the parliamentary time of day.

I sincerely hope that E-bikes will find their niche in helping more people to enjoy the British countryside and that any debate that greets their arrival with be rational, calm and well-informed.

However, from my experience of the Anti-MTB lobby I sincerely doubt that calm rationality will be the foremost feature of the 'letters to the editor' that the arrival of e-bikes will trigger so those who live and ride in sensitive areas should be prepared to stand up and be counted should a local kerfuffle arise because if it does these are the arguments that will be thown at them.

Haibikes with Bosch motors are all about that, uphill and along flat to get going to 15mph handy, downhill power assist only good out of corners & a pain when putting an additional pedal stroke in as can get a slightly delayed surge of power which made me overshoot a corner or 2 downhill on steep techy stuff

maybe a gradient sensor would be handy to switch off power assist on downhills?

Agree about the DH bit though, you want a bike to be agile with low inertia and a heavy motor and battery is just going to ruin that.

As for users - pretty sure a few injured soldiers would quite like to get back out on the trails but in some cases they just cannot get the power down on hills.

The amount of assistance could probably be controlled to even out an advantage to enable people to compete against fully able bodied people and the only way the technology is going to advance and come down in price is if they sell in decent numbers.

Yes. I see the list of disabilities and I'll say that an eBike is really NOT the best solution for these people. An ebike only really suits able bodied riders in general. I'm sure there are some small groups of disabled people who would find an eBike is a great enabler for them (point above about injured soldiers for example) but in this thread alone the argument that eBikes are only for the elderly or disabled gives the impression that they are some kind of magic accessibility ticket to mountain biking. Apart from the elderly argument i'd say eBikes are really NOT a solution for the disabled population at large.

You ride an eBike like you ride an ordinary bike. You push the pedals to make it go. It's doesn't go all on it's own. The pedals are not some kind of switch and so long as you turn them the motor does the rest. No. You have to pedal hard enough to propel the bike. The motor then helps propel the bike a bit faster than you would ordinarily travel without it. In effect it's a range extender in that you will be able to ride further. If you ride it like I did this morning then you can ride uphill at 15mph, which on many off-road climbs will bag you some KOMs, but you will be out of breath at the top of the climb because you still have to work.

As soon as you ride one you will realise what this means. I've said it earlier, an ebike makes a climb less steep, but it's still steep. The higher power setting you use the less steep the climb feels.. But it never stops feeling like a climb. If you can't ride up a climb to start with then an eBike won't help you no matter what power setting you use.

As far as Strava is concerned, they seem to think that being [url= https://strava.zendesk.com/entries/20942097-The-Activity-Flag-Remove-an-Activity-s-segment-results-from-the-Leaderboard ]'clearly motor-assisted'[/url] is a valid reason to flag the ride - if anyone is that bothered.

So it sounds like e-bikes can get you up hills quicker, you still have to pedal though and are quite possibly crap on the downs.

Sounds mint. Where do I sign up... (to a regular ride to build up my fitness and a few skills days for a fraction of the price of a 50lb battery operated bike).

Has anyone flagged mark's ride yet BTW?

I guess he made it private? http://www.strava.com/segments/904851

If you can't ride up a climb to start with then an eBike won't help you no matter what power setting you use.

i disagree with this.
on a weeks offroad touring, i managed to ride up a hill i have never been able to ride up. and i beat a bloke up it who would normally leave me for dead.

the hill in question is from kidstones gate above buckden, up to stake moss. it is a steep babies head covered climb. some may know it.

Have ridden one

It was hugely fun for about 10 mins then it was just a slightly assisted very heavy bike. Good for hills, pretty much neutral everywhere else. As it happens after I spent a day riding around Daventry on a Haibike, that weekend I met a couple of blokes trying them out at Cannock. they were ripping up the climbs, and were pretty much just the same on the descents, the massive difference was that they did the 2 loops twice without stopping at the top of the climbs or getting tired...at all. As others have said, just extended the range significantly.

I think they're great things, expands choice massively, encourages folk onto bikes, as a commuter I can see the benefits instantly.

One who CGAF who uses strava whilst riding one here.