[Closed] the demise of decent customers (lbs content)

I think we agree, I have examples of customers wanting a nice and shiney Kamasa tool kit, which quite frankly was sh1te, and I had hell of a time convincing a young mechanic that what he needed was something more professional/expensive. So yes, in saying "no", I was giving him what he needed. He was still talking to me a couple of months later, so I guess I done good.

so I guess I done good.

You done good! 🙂

Thanks. 😆

the need for specialisation is what is killing some bike shops and conversely letting others flourish. in Edinburgh we have quite a few bike shops and among the best are the bike chain and the tri shop but if i want something fixed and it isn't a warranty type thing i use the" bike works" they don't sell bikes they just fix them and usually make a damn fine job of it, the prices (imnsho) are damn reasonable. they have lent me tools and ordered stuff for me ok sometimes i have to wait and yes they aren't as cheap as crc but when i break things (and i do ) they fix it promptly. in the last few years i have spent a ridiculous amount of money in edinburgh bike shops and hope to continue doing so for the forseeable future

Sometimes the need and want are too close together.

The want also psychologically fulfills the need. No one needs a 160/180 fork really unless they need that extra second or are world-class riders.

Its the milking the customer/setting them to feel that popping in to say hello/go on the weekly shop rides means they feel obliged to buy something regularly from them.

Its almost grooming. People are stressed/want to belong/cant get out much due to kids/family and the shop solicits new sales.

Why do you think they organise shop rides/or rides from their shop or offers 'guides'...

Bikeshops are businesses. Don't romance them or paint them as benevolent.

I'm knackered, and my screaming 9 month old is hardly helping me remember whether I've answered your questions or not... I can't believe we're still talking about it.

But this...

I still stand by what I said about making you wait, if you push me to drop my prices, I'll make you wait for collection [b]regardless of whether it's in stock or not[/b].

...is what I read that I thought sounded like a petty grudge. I certainly don't think it's a sound business model.

Hmmm.

Grooming.....

Hmmm.

Grooming.....

POSTED 1 MINUTE AGO

coffee and jaffa cakes works on fat boys

 

Fair enough, but read the rest to see the idea behind the statement, just think about what I've written. I'm not attacking anyone, just introducing my ideas and beliefs and it all began as an open statement to a post way back in history, and not directed at any single person. 😆

hora - Member

Its almost grooming.

druidh - Member

Hmmm.

Grooming...

😯 I have been groomed by Druidh

I have been groomed by Druidh

but teej you needed a trim

 

I'm still waiting to hear how making someone wait for an item you already have in stock and then expecting them to come back and pick it up from the shop is matching the level of service they'd get from an online store which will deliver to their door...

And besides, do people really just dive in and ask about discount straight off, wouldn't they ask if you had any in stock to begin with?

;o)

OK, I'll post it to you, but you don't walk out with it. 😉

That's fine.... now can I order it over the phone, or maybe by email? ;o)

Maybe but you're probably better off going on-line if you want a discounted price. Telephone/email is moving towards internet shopping and without their buying power or discounted rents I can't compete on price alone.

Hora - the good thing about our rides is that we are/were first mates with many attendees. That and everyoneno knows I finish 'work' at 6pm. We do the rides cause we funny enough like riding bikes. Our usual crowd come because they do too .nothing to do with being customers who want to 'belong'. You should come.sometime on the back of tj's clown bike. 😈

Then I fail to see how you are 'service matching' in that instance...

That is all.

Because I don't want your business and I don't care if you buy on-line. There are plenty of other people who are paying for my villa, boat and Ferraris. So, you get the hump and come on STW spreading the word, so what? I lose 5% of potentially loss making business. I don't ****ingcare. You're not important. You are the reason that internet stores saw an opening, and there are other customers that keep Halfords alive.
You're a high maintenance-low profit customer.
Service matching was just a term to say you couldn't have a bike shop experience at internet shop prices. It's not difficult to work out, but you already knew that.

I lose 5% of potentially loss making business.

How does your face feel about the bloody hole where your nose used to be?

You're a high maintenance-low profit customer.

Show me where I said I'd offer worse service, you do understand the concept of "service match" don't you?

This bit here..

I still stand by what I said about making you wait, if you push me to drop my prices, I'll make you wait for collection regardless of whether it's in stock or not.

Where you said you'd give a customer worse service if they dared ask for a price match.

Asking if a shop can price match isn't a snub, its offering them the chance to compete for business, and letting them argue their side and decide if its worth it for them or not. Surely its better to at least try to use the LBS instead of just going straight online?

I think its easy for everyone to have this argument on the internet though, what we'd do if it was actually our living on the line would be quite different I suspect. I certainly can't imagine many shop owners turning down any kind business just because they'd make less profit on it. You could have a 5000% profit margin, but 5000% of **** all, is **** all.

BTW I once negotiated a 30% discount at my LBS on a very expensive frame - from their attitude to the sale I have to assume the margin on RRP was ridiculous.

I've been buying bikes, bits and service from my LBS since I started riding 15yrs ago. As I became more mechanically savvy the service bit dropped off somewhat but if I don't have the tool, I'll ask to borrow it from them(whilst waving a packet of chocolate digestives in front of the staff!!) Since I only live 10mins away and they know I'll get it back to them fairly quickly there's no problem. They gave my idiot son a holiday job last summer and turned him into a competent mechanic and now we both get 'staff discount'! Unless it's something they can't access, I rarely buy online anymore. I sold a couple of bikes, earlier this year, that had to be couriered - I asked the LBS for boxes, which they gave me but then suggested I use their courier, at buisness rates, for overnight, tracked delivery - absolute bloody stars, ah tell thee!

Hora - the good thing about our rides is that we are/were first mates with many attendees. That and everyoneno knows I finish 'work' at 6pm. We do the rides cause we funny enough like riding bikes. Our usual crowd come because they do too .nothing to do with being customers who want to 'belong'. You should come.sometime on the back of tj's clown bike.

Curious. Do your good friends and trusted customers feel guilty if they turn up with forks, a new frame or bike to one of these rides?

I'm not saying you do this but I imagine in some shops/shop rides there will be a question 'oh nice bike! You should have asked us as we can get a good deal on x brand'...

Well personally I'm not particularly high maintenance.

OK, you're not, but the other guy was! 🙄 It's a case by case descicion.

Where you said you'd give a customer worse service if they dared ask for a price match.

Asking if a shop can price match isn't a snub, its offering them the chance to compete for business, and letting them argue their side and decide if its worth it for them or not.

All customer are different and have different demands, as you (second person plural) can see from this thread, some understand my POV and would be welcome in my (theoretical) shop, some require a little more work and depending on the economic climate may/may not be welcome, the third group have spent a lot of time asking me questions trying to disassemble my arguement, as you're wasting my time I'll look at the first group for custom. You are making the assumption that you are special and that I need your money.

You could have a 5000% profit margin, but 5000% of **** all, is **** all.

And 0% on 5trillion €uros is? 🙄

I think its easy for everyone to have this argument on the internet though, what we'd do if it was actually our living on the line would be quite different I suspect.

Actually untrue, I have had high maintenance customers who thought they had a right to drive down prices, when all things were equal I was prepared to play. The moment they became a cost (time/money/energy), they were dropped for more profitable customers, they can waste the competition's time.

[url= http://www.singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/the-demise-of-decent-customers-lbs-content/page/4#post-1888496 ]Here's alink for the hard of reading.[/url] 😉

A couple of true anecdotes. (OK, they might not be 100%true!)

I was sat in my local Chinese restaurant last week, quite good for Madrid, but a bit expensive. I happened to see the takeaway prices which were 10% cheaper. I asked for this discount and they told me to **** off! Cheecky bastids.

After that we went to a bar, you know one of those flashy city centre bars, for a couple of drinks. 'Kinnel, 5,00€ for a beer, I can get a beer for 2,00€ in my local village bar, so I asked for discount. Same brand of beer and everything and I drink loads in my local bar, so surely I have a right to discount. As I sat on the pavement nursing a bruised ar5e, it was my turn to tell the doorman to **** off! Ha ha! Shan't be going back there.

Also last week, I had a computer problem, so I went into a shop for help. They wanted 25,00€ per hour for the repair, I waved some Jaffa Cakes under their noses and they fixed it for free. Result!

Where else do you think it's acceptable to ask for discount? Tesco? The petrol station? Currys?
I know in some industries it's acceptable and others not. The customer has a choice and the shop has a choice.

Wow! That was a long one! 😆 Best go for a lie down...

The trouble is that - aside from Elfinsafety's tendency to rub himself against the gussets of high end apparel and then leave without buying - virtually all the anti-LBS comments here and on other threads are about poor or incompetent service, long waits and poor communication delivered by LBSs in face-to-face contacts, which is not really addressed by the argument that has developed in the last page or so.

I do feel for people like TBC who obviously offer a great service, but people like Don Simon are missing the point - many LBSs have yet to even start delivering basic decent no-nonsense service, yet they will not go out of business because they have a ready-made flock of poorly informed punters they can sell to.

So they are apparently providing a good service to the flocks, and an unacceptable service to a discerning customer like you. Where's the problem?

I'd happily use my LBS, but the service is hugely slow. Turn up to buy a commuter light and it takes an age to get served; they're friendly, but the shop side is poor.

Servicing has to be booked in a previous lifetime, and is not what I'd call fantastic even then.

Clothing is a limited line; if there's something I like, and it's in my size, I'm happy to buy it, as the prices are perfectly acceptable. Not Wiggle, but the difference isn't worth worrying over.

The real problem for me comes with specialist kit and the servicing of it. The only option for servicing a fork is to send it off, but I can do this anyway. Servicing a Rohloff completely blew their minds, but, again, I did it myself. Getting their advice over whether to go for Hope Moto V2 on the Alps bike only elicited the suching of teeth and the "well, the Mono Minis are good, so I suppose the Motos will be as well." After all of this, the best price they could do for a full set of brakes was £120 more than Merlin.

I'm a 'sling it at the shop and let them sort it' kind of guy, so if there were a shop that could do all of what I wanted (build a bike, get parts the next day at decent prices, service a fork) I'd be happy to use them. After 20 years of riding offroad bikes, I'm yet to come across such a shop.

There's obviously a broad spectrum of LBS quality out there, I'd guess the ones most STW people would consider poor are focused a lot around the commuting market so they churn out cheap basic stuff and the shop knowledge and workshop experience is in that area as well. Whereas another LBS might be focused on high end road bikes which for someone like me is heaven (and I happen to have such an LBS although they're all Campag fanboys and refer to the alternative as Shitmano :p ) but I could see a commuter walking in there might think they're a bit snobbish etc. (whereas in fact they just get no pleasure dealing with commuting stuff but still likely do as it's where the profits will come from).

The whole having to deal with commuters and kids bikes is the main reason I'd never even consider opening an LBS, I'm sure I'd get bored of it very quickly.

[img] [/img]

OK, you're not, but the other guy was! It's a case by case descicion.

my villa, boat and Ferraris

TBH, All I want from a good LBS is for it to be reasonably priced (not selling stuff above RRP), to offer a decent level of service (not have to wait 2 weeks to replace a couple of spokes and re-true a wheel) and not to treat me like a moron (like being told that my 2004 Stumpy couldn't be a 2004 as they didn't make them in that colour in that year - even though I bought it and have owned it from new in 2004 and still have the 2004 catalogue with it in).
As you can tell from the bracketed comments, am still to find what I consider to be a 'good' LBS. If I could find one, I'd keep going back!

My nearest LBS is around 5 miles away. The one I use is around 25 miles away. This is due to poor service experienced once from the mechanics there who were trying it on by exploiting my perceived inexperience to make me pay for things which had not worn out.

I removed the bike and got a "second opinion" from About Bikes near Evesham who quoted me for the work I wanted doing at a fair price and when I questioned them about the "worn" parts - said they were all fine.

This was a few years ago now and I've never been back to the other shop.

Yes, it's inconvenient to drive the 50 mile round trip and even more so if I need to leave the bike there for work, but at least I'm confident I won't be ripped off. Sadly, the distance involved means I buy more online and have taught myself to do some of the work but this is no bad thing as I can at least bodge more stuff now when I get in trouble out on a ride.

Servicing a Rohloff completely blew their minds, but, again, I did it myself.

if you mean changing the oil, that's piss easy. Apart from replacing the cables what else can you do ?

I've stopped using my LBS and now use a very good mobile bike mechanic (also now a good mate) - he comes out with a fully equipped van, sorts/replaces stuff properly and charges me a very reasonable rate.

While my LBS has been okay, they have made too many mistakes in the past - some rather costly.

I also have no problem paying more if needed - I can source parts myself and get the mechanic to fit them or he can get hold of stuff, often cheaply.

While we all want to save money, those we buy off have to earn a living too - many seem to forget that.

I do buy on-line if/when needed - it's just handier than having to park, go to my LBS and come back again. Maybe "wrong" but hey ho, the World is about choices.

To say that MTBers aren't welcome as they're too savvy is absurd.

Who the fvck is Donald? A duck? 😆

Who the fvck is Donald? A duck?

reading between the lines, that would be *you* [b]don[/b]ald 🙂

Ah! An easy mistake to make.

So many folk miss the point. The type of customer that wants XTR off the shelf, at discount, fitted for free is not a customer a bike shop wants or needs. No profit in them

A shop needs to make a profit. Its not a charity £30 a billable hour is the minimum to make any profit on servicing. £40+ gives a decent profit. A decent shop will give yo a fixed price = which needs to take into account the times that the job goes wrong and takes longer. Your quick index of the gears that ends up with full cable replacement, dropout alignment etc etc

They simply cannot compete on price with the large internet operations - overheads are higher. Service levels are higher ( you get to see the bits before you buy at a minimum) Its not comparing like with like. Although infact most LBS I use come close on service parts)

Those who complain about waiting times for the workshop - why is there a wait? Workshop full? clearly plenty of people are prepared to pay for a service and why should you get to skip the queue.

Some folks idea of the reality of running a shop is laughable.

On the whole STWers are not the target market anyway - too little profit in them

Such heresy TJ, how dare you?

I love the idea that there's nothing wrong with the shops, it's just us :o)

SFB - there are some good shops and some poor ones. However some STwers idea of what a bike shop should do is laughable.

OP here...
i thought id re-post as its seems to have divided a few...some facts about what happens at a normal lbs

1- i only get next day delivery from one company.hope(because were a hope tech centre) i deal with around 40 active accounts/suppliers..everyone else takes 2-3 days(maybe cos were in scotland)

2- margins on all kit varies between 20-50%...ironically a $3500 frame depending on the supplier has the least margin...all the cheap consumable stuff that most of you wouldnt touch has the highest margin

3- a brake/gear cable of the stainless steel variety rrp is $3.99..its branded and we never have them fail(check the biggest bike purchaser in the uk what they charge,halfords, as theyre dearer and its not a branded item)

4- i, like mark at the tbc has probably not spent a huge amount of time worrying if his mates have been buying bike kit elsewhere...i accepted this a long time ago.but if they do want to get something ill do them the best deal i can(cos were mates)

5- theyres only one guy in scotland i know of who has taken a rohloff apart...i seem to remember it took him a while,like 2 days.id never do it and would happyily send it off to the supplier to fix(not cost affective or practical to fix)anyway i thought they never went wrong?

6- forks/shox we also send away as i dont have the tooling,the service is very good from the sorters.we offer the free service of taking the forks off and putting them back on...again i cant recall anyone else in scotland who does servicing in house on forks...we do however offer servicing on brakes(any) bikes,hubs,wheel building...

7- the large internet firms are getting bigger,now have supply companies and probably do more business than the majority of our suppliers(except maybe madison)theyre not going anywhere....but is theyre service that good? if i thought i couldnt compete on service i may have jacked it in a while ago...

ive been at this for over 17 years now and love the trade....i have a great rapport with all the reps i deal with,ditto with a lot of regular customers..in the last year the shop has got a real community feel about it with folk just hanging out and drinking coffe/tea,chatting bikes.sometinmes they buy something somtimes they dont..but they'll always think about us when they are in the market! if this is grooming then im a groomer!
the most successful lbs in my view are in the states and this is what they do to get more people to engage with them...it seems to work...im not caring about the negativity on here cos im confident i do a good job and theyres as much passion here for the lowly lbs as decriers...

chris

If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help.

If a shop told me this they would not get my custom again. What on earth is wrong with buying parts online and asking your LBS to fit them? They're getting the profit margin out of the labour, which I suspect is more than the profit on some odd part that I went to the trouble of sourcing myself.

LBS shops will get my custom is I want to buy a new bike. LBS shops will get my custom for workshop jobs I can't/don't want to do. LBS shops will get my custom if I happen to be in there and see something nice and shiny. LBS shops will get my custom buying stuff I need to try on (shoes, helmets, clothes etc). However if I know the part I need and I can order it for delivery to me without having to get in the car/on the bike then I go on the internet. Simple.

TBH I've had cracking service from Wiggle and other internet retailers.

Which shop would take a pair of trail running shoes back that had been worn 10+ times because if a fit issue that wouldn't go away?

Wiggle did and for that reason, they are my first port of internet call for most items.

But yes, the LBS will always have it's place. They just need to adapt to, not fight, the evolution of the bike industry.

So many folk miss the point. The type of customer that wants XTR off the shelf, at discount, fitted for free is not a customer a bike shop wants or needs. No profit in them

hora

I saw some of the salaries offered for bike shop managers. Now considering they'll be selling kit into the thousands paying a manager peanuts is ridiculous. I remember speaking to one ex-Manager who told me about the hours he was expected to work for 25k a year. **** that.

I doubt bikeshop staff get much more than the basic/minimum salary either.

Not much incentive yet they are expected to show 'love for their hobbie' (with one day off in the week to ride.

People should bear this in mind every single time they decide to post something slating a shop or it's staff.

We expect bike shop staff to work for pennies, but be experts in their field, or at least more skilled and knowledgeable than a given enthusiast who spends all of his waking day researching their hobby and most of his free time indulging in said hobby/obsession. And ironically they probably get little or no time to fart about on the internet or indeed ride bikes.

If you enter a shop with parts you have bought online and expect them to fit them, be prepared to be told to see your online seller for fitting and warranty help.

If a shop told me this they would not get my custom again. What on earth is wrong with buying parts online and asking your LBS to fit them? They're getting the profit margin out of the labour, which I suspect is more than the profit on some odd part that I went to the trouble of sourcing myself.

Absolutely - would they refuse to fit it if it were a present from someone, a second hand item, something you'd had off another bike? At the end of the day, if they want to absorb some or all workshop charges when doing a supply / fit, that's their prerogative - that cost is covered somewhere though, either through their charges for other jobs (fit only) or in the mark up on the products they sell.

If your name isn't Donald, why else would you call yourself don? It's a widely used name is it not?

[url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Don_%28honorific%29 ]Answer.[/url] 😆

forks/shox we also send away as i dont have the tooling,the service is very good from the sorters.we offer the free service of taking the forks off and putting them back on...again i cant recall anyone else in scotland who does servicing in house on forks..."

Hey chris/joe - you don't need a great deal of kit, we got a talas needle and everyfink here and send only the truly gubbed set of Pikes back to Fishers for instance. Fox done here all in a day turn around.
You should do it. Call James here tomorrow if you want any pointers.

Hora - i can only think of two people in our group of regulars that bought a bike off us. One was a Yeti and the other a Spicy. I actually like that the guys have other kit and use other shops - they freely admit they use CRC etc in fact i send them there sometimes when i know i cant.

There is such a cool mix of bikes and kit out on the rides it gives you a chance to develop your knowledge of stuff other than what you sell. This is a good thing - plus ultimately we are a retail business and the fact is we have to stay sharp to compete for peoples limited spend. We are in competition with people selling plasmas and kitchens and holidays and other life stuff - that's what we concentrate on rather than churning out product for what is for us an unsustainable margin we choose to sell products that work for us and allow us to run a business.

One thing from previous page - do people really sell above RRP? Apart from the odd innocent mistake and un-noticed supplier price re-alignment this doesn't really go on does it?

 

Also, nobody has mentioned the "Cycle to work scheme" . Soul destroying, and with a 10% commission out of the bike shop's margin despite the extra admin, holding onto a bike and accs often for months. Nightmare.
And I should mention that a lot of bike shop staff are on minimum wage, so a customer who earns £50k bitching about not being able to get a sale bike on c2w is sometimes just too much...
Before I get moaned at for "if you don't like it then move" statements, I have worked in the bike trade for 11 years, and overall I have enjoyed it, but I am in the process of changing lifestyle and will never work in retail again... sweet

...I have worked in the bike trade for 11 years, and overall I have enjoyed it, but I am in the process of changing lifestyle and will never work in retail again... sweet

Ditto that. Sometimes having a fat c**t telling you that your labour rates are too high, that they can get components cheaper from a dodgy grey importer but expect them fitted for next to nothing (before screaming off in a company car leaving you with nothing but the reek of meat-sweats mixed with expensive cologne) does tend to make one see red.

Well i,m new here and just spent an hour reading that lot !

Some very sensible answers to some serious questioning and the odd stupid answer too !

I spend a fortune on my passion as i,m sure many people on here do as well, I cannot find enough time to ride my very expensive passion so i rely heavily on my LBS ! I,ve just purchased some RF Six c bars and got a tenner off RRP, i still paid £4 more than CRC but i fitted them in the shop and i got a coffee for my rouble !

I was in the shop an hour and a half
The phone never stopped ringing and some cheeky Mo-Fo came in to try some ENDURA overtrousers on just so he could get the correct size before ordering on line......WTF

If i,m at work like i am now sciving and want something specific i tend to go online and order bits as well but thats clearly taking the P!SS.

I,m of the opinion that the LBS is a business and for that reason it needs to make money ! If my boiler packs in i dont get the cheapest plumber to come round and haggle with him i pay him "reluctantly" cos i,m from Yorkshire !
At the end of the day when i get my pay packet no one takes any money off me !
Thank God !

If someone wants to try on a product before purchasing online, this is called a sales opportunity.
The desire to buy the product is evident, the store just needs to negotiate with the customer.
As said previously 5% of something is better than 100% of nothing.
The internets faceless store has given the LBS an opportunity to do what they should do best, this should be embraced not feared.

i remember in my repping days watching a nameless mech in a shop dismantle some forks in front of me whilst chatting/making tea..

cant remember what forks they were but do remember them launching thru the ceiling into the flat above..thought to myself then why do shops service forks? we do service simple ones im just talking about the fox/dh forks..

Like Mark says, forks aren't a black art and worth a go. Practice on your own and when you're confidant move onto others.

We don't get too many bad customers- there's a few that go elsewhere for bits and some are just a nuisance but they tend to have big old German city bikes which can, quite frankly, f*ck off.

You don't get bad customers though... you just need to qualify them better.

Work out what it is they have walked into your store for in the first 60 seconds and then you will be fine. Ask the right questions - especially the clothes and shoes people. You will find the right questions will make the 'right' customers. Don't fear people, they have walked into your shop with one of two intentions:
1. To buy something to do with a bike now
2. To buy something to do with a bike at some point in the next 3 months (usually).

They are not a nuisance - they are what keeps the doors open, without them you don't have a job.

It's only really regulars that use online sometimes- we just can't compete, we don't have their buying power. I don't mind it, it's all about choice.

But Ms Fitzroy and her Batavus still get on my nerves!

It's only really regulars that use online sometimes- we just can't compete, we don't have their buying power. I don't mind it, it's all about choice

Look at your range and pick stuff you don't have to compete on so much.

[b]Don[/b]

So they are apparently providing a good service to the flocks, and an unacceptable service to a discerning customer like you. Where's the problem?

Nope - nice troll 😉 - the flocks are getting shorn, but the shops would do better by taking a long view.

[b]TJ[/b] re times to wait for servicing etc. If most garages can plan their staffing and schedules to do a hell of a lot better in response time - I don't see why LBSs cannot. I don't mind paying the going rate per hour, but I do mind being kept waiting 3 weeks for a 30 minute task.

There do seem to be LBSs who take a pride in their work and the service they offer, and others which are complacent and don't really care, or who don't know what their minimum-wage slaves are up to.

Ive been reading this over the past 15 mins and i think its all bloody nuts people should just count themselves lucky to have a local bike shop

the closest proper bike shop (i.e not halfrauds) to me is a 35 mile round trip and even then its a bloody evans!!

I dont live in the sticks i live in a large town in the central belt of scotland its ****ing nuts I would love a LBS

Ok, London shops only, but an interesting 'Mystery Shopper' article on Bike Biz, good variety of shops as well:
http://www.bikebiz.com/news/33009/BikeBizs-Mystery-Shopper-does-west-london

Don Simon:I don't work in a shop.

Then what is it you are referring to in all your posts? No need to be cryptic a simple explanation would be best.

Don Simon... you still haven't really explained

I still stand by what I said about making you wait, if you push me to drop my prices, I'll make you wait for collection regardless of whether it's in stock or not.

you half explained it by saying that you would keep your stock item and order a new one, but i doubt very much if i'm the only one who got the very strong signal that this is not what you meant at all. Both from this and your other posts