[Closed] the bike industry is suffering

Can anyone direct me to where I can buy a new fork?

Find an adaptor for your hub to 15mm and you can get a 2018 rs fork...

[url= http://www.chainreactioncycles.com/mobile/rockshox-sektor-gold-rl-dual-position-coil-forks-2018/rp-prod109678 ]forks[/url]

The car example given above is nonsense. The reason they don’t bring a new golf out every year is the cost involved in making a new one and the time it takes to develop the next model. If they could, they would.

I have a 650b bike with boost at the front and 142 at the rear + a 29er with standard front and boost rear. Meh, that’s how they came and I didn’t give the hub size much thought when I bought them. Oh, and I wouldn’t buy a 26” bike new even if I could.

Three pages and no-one has mentioned e-bikes?

Thought that was going to be the next big boom... 😉

The car example given above is nonsense. The reason they don’t bring a new golf out every year is the cost involved in making a new one and the time it takes to develop the next model.

So given it's that much cheaper to bring a new bike out each year, why is it so surprising that they do so? By that logic, they would if they could bit they aren't in the position to do so, whereas bike companies perhaps are.

wilburt-bloke:

Everyone hate cyclist

As always - this forum is just great!

For 2018 I really hope that I won't suffer from

Boost induced rage

I love the humor in this forum. I love these arguments.
And I know: we all like bikes and love biking!

Had some good cups of red wine and the "boost induced rage" puts a big, big smile on my face! 🙂
Cheers to all!
👿 😈 🙄

So given it's that much cheaper to bring a new bike out each year, why is it so surprising that they do so? By that logic, they would if they could bit they aren't in the position to do so, whereas bike companies perhaps are.

26 inch Bontrager TLR tyres - mainly because trek don't make 26 inch bikes any more.
26 inch Bontrager TLR wheels - for the same reason.
26 inch 1.125 steerer forks - if you can still get them, they're lubricated with unicorn tears and

o given it's that much cheaper to bring a new bike out each year, why is it so surprising that they do so? By that logic, they would if they could bit they aren't in the position to do so, whereas bike companies perhaps are.

Not directed at you hungry but the next post after. I agree with you.

[quote=chestrockwell ]The car example given above is nonsense. The reason they don’t bring a new golf out every year is the cost involved in making a new one and the time it takes to develop the next model. If they could, they would.

If the manufacturers weren't changing the models every year then they'd be cheaper to produce, retailers could order in confidence of selling them at RRP and the RRP would then actually come down as it wasn't having to be inflated due to under-margin selling every 12 months. Incremental changes like geometry/hub/BB sizes would occur every 3-4 years instead of this drip-drip-drip thing we experience at the moment.

Plenty of manufacturers don’t change the frame every year.

Incremental changes like geometry/hub/BB sizes would occur every 3-4 years instead of this drip-drip-drip thing we experience at the moment.

A good example of people moving to longer model runs
https://www.pinkbike.com/news/the-evolution-of-the-specialized-enduro-2016.html

Three pages and no-one has mentioned e-bikes?

not quite true we are on page 3 and you have mentioned e bikes

this is a quandry

The frame design only changes every 3 or 4 years from the major manufacturers doesn't it? Unless they make an absolute shocker.
Smaller companies can make changes quicker as they are lower volume and probably don't buy manufacturing slots so far in advance and can therefore react to market changes quicker.

Cycling was the new Golf. It has peaked and is now going to flatline and probably diminish over the next few years back to a more realistic level as the newbies don't get on with it, the next thing comes along or the economy just tanks and people have less disposable income or desire to spend it on 'toys'.

I've been riding MTB since 1991 or so, I can't see me ever stopping. I have, however, already considerably reduced the amount of road riding I do having lost the love this year and gone back to my MTB roots after 4 or 5 years of doing a lot.

I won't be buying anything with Boost, 650b, no front mech option or 35mm bars.
People will only take so much bullshit

I don't know if there is a genuine drop in sales in the bike industry but if there is they've brought it on themselves for this very reason. Pretty much all the people I ride with share that opinion and are sticking with their older bikes.

I've got a 26" & 29er hardtail and a 26" full suss, the full susser will take 650b with new rear dropouts but changing over will gain me nothing other than making my bank balance several hundred pounds smaller.

Now where is that YouTube video of the foreign guy pissing himself laughing after introducing all those new standards 😆

Pretty much all the people I ride with share that opinion and are sticking with their older bikes.

And I can't remember anyone ever being bothered about the clamp diameter of the bars on the new bike they were looking at.

Are we allowed discs or are V's where it's at to keep backwards compatibility? What about IS mounts?

Find an adaptor for your hub to 15mm and you can get a 2018 rs fork...

I didn't know about that, thanks.

Although the fact that there is a single fork on the market that fits my requirements (almost) doesn't fill me with confidence that's I'll still be able to run my bikes in their current spec in another 10 years.

I guess at that point they'll have forced me into buying a new bike or three.

How old are these bikes?

Are we allowed discs or are V's where it's at to keep backwards compatibility?

This goes back to what someone was saying earlier. Between the mid-90s to early 2000s you got some genuine imporovments in performance with disc brakes and suspension. It was worth spending money to upgrade or even to buy a new bike.

I jumped on disc brakes, suspension, and dropper posts as quickly as I could because it was so much better than what I had.

Since then it's just been questionable improvements whose main effect seems to be to lighten people's wallets.

How old are these bikes?

2007 Santa Cruz Nomad, 2009 Dialled Alpine, and a Coyote Dual from round about 2000.

There's also a 1997 Orange P7 but I'm quite happy running that rigid with Vs for when I'm feeling nostalgic 🙂

I can't remember anyone ever being bothered about the clamp diameter of the bars on the new bike they were looking at.

I know one person who was bothered. Admittedly not while he was looking at the new bike, but when he tried to fit his favourite stem to his new bike. It provided me with some amusement until I tried to fit my favourite bars to my new bike. It is a fat bike, so I wasn't expecting to fit a pair of existing wheels. Though I would be interested to know if anyone makes adaptors so I could fit 142/12 and 100/15 wheels without needing to redish them.

So heading to retro bike then?
If you want to keep them running for 10 years then you will easily spend more on the replacement parts than replacing them. Your choice in some ways but ha e you not got your moneys worth from them?
When I looked at what was needed to keep my 2012 bike running, it was in need of a drive train, fork and shock service, brakes needed replacing wheels probably coming close. Got a brand new bike for similar money. Given the investment in tooling for hubs etc I expect to be able to buy boost for a long time same as I can buy 135mm qr now.

Three pages and no-one has mentioned e-bikes?

Thought that was going to be the next big boom...

Well there you go then, 3 things lots of other 26" rubber available, Stans released their new rims in 26" too so not that hard. as above some forks available still but also when was the last non tapered head tube bike made?

But the point is that I've got Bontrager TLR wheels and tyres, and they just work (none of the pfaffing that crops up in regular posts on here) so I'd kind of like to keep using them, thank you very much. Tyres wear out, so I'd like to be able to replace them, and if I ever need to replace a wheel, it would be nice to be able to buy one that I can guarantee will work.
As for the straight head tube frame, I agree that it's been a while since they were commonly made but, not being one of those people who changes their car when the ashtray fills up (I don't smoke, but you will hopefully get the analogy), I like to keep my bikes and get some use out of them.
New stuff is great, and there is nothing wrong with it, but it's the sense of more or less being forced into needlessly giving stuff up that people are objecting to.

P.S. Here's hoping that Santa brought people the bike stuff that they want/need

Since then it's just been questionable improvements whose main effect seems to be to lighten people's wallets.

The improvements do seem incremental rather than large but then when looking at what is changing it is fairly subtle, 1 degree change in frame angle, 20 mm change in stem, 5 mm change in axle etc,.

But when you compare a 2017 bike with a 1997 bike it is a lot different (and not just because of major changes such as disc brakes and suspension)
Without those minor changes over the 20 years you would have got there as no bike maker would have jumped from 1997 bike to 2017 bike in one go.

(All alien to me really as I ride a track bike where very little chages...)

Tyres wear out, so I'd like to be able to replace them, and if I ever need to replace a wheel, it would be nice to be able to buy one that I can guarantee will work.

As for the straight head tube frame, I agree that it's been a while since they were commonly made but, not being one of those people who changes their car when the ashtray fills up

chipsngravy - Member
Some of the issues might be.

For less than the price of a Santa Cruz V10 X01 you can buy a 2018 KTM 250 TPI. A far more involved and sophisticated piece of engineering.

This kinda highlights things ... but as long as there is people willing to pay silly prices - the industry will demand silly prices.

So heading to retro bike then?
If you want to keep them running for 10 years then you will easily spend more on the replacement parts than replacing them. Your choice in some ways but ha e you not got your moneys worth from them?

I would say my only retro-bike is the '97 Orange. Like I said, the mid 90s to early 2000s were a period that saw the serious improvements in mountain biking technology with discs and suspension. Since then the only improvement has been dropper posts. Geometry tweaks are just that, tweaks.

The Nomad cost almost £4,000 in 2007. The idea that 10 years is a pretty good run is just depressing. Trails now have not evolved to the point that they have gone beyond the capabilities of this bike. There is no reason to replace this bike except the availability and costs of parts.

To replace this bike with today's equivalent would probably end up costing at least £4,000. That makes repair almost always cheaper, especially since I do all my own work. But even if I took it to a shop it would take a lot of problems all at once to make it cheaper to buy a new bike.

What is going to kill this bike is not wear and tear, it's going to be obsolescence.

The guy previous with the 07 Nomad (is that the 1.5" head tube?) can dow hat he wants, otherwise stick a 650 for on and correct the geo if you are desperate to keep it.

Nope, 1 1/8". As soon as Rockshox stop making that Sektor someone linked to above that'll be it.

... and now the industry is trying to push all this nonsense in the road market too.

Having failed to convince anyone that 35mm bar clamps are a good thing on a road bike (Oh come on - like you really need a 35mm bar clamp on a ROAD bike??? Yeah, right...) the industry wants to make people believe that unless they're riding a thru-axled, hydraulic disc-braked, aero-profiled, electronic-shifting, 1 X bike with 30mm tyre clearance then their bike is sh*t, or outdated/obsolete.

Gosh, how on Earth did we manage until now?

I'm certainly no retro grouch, but a lot of this so-called "innovation" is pointless and ultimately it will destroy the road bike market with people becoming as disillusioned as we lot seem to be on here about what's happened to the MTB industry in the past 10yrs.

This kinda highlights things ... but as long as there is people willing to pay silly prices - the industry will demand silly prices.

This, & It'll always be the case.
I was at my LBS (50 miles away in Guisborough) & Andy says, 'you want one of these', while stroking the saddle of a 7.5K Orange Ebike! & I'm like, 'Andy, I could buy a decent Gas Gas/Beta trials bike & a nice enduro for that money, Maybe not both brand new but, ya know.
Mad.

unless they're riding a thru-axled, hydraulic disc-braked, aero-profiled, electronic-shifting, 1 X bike with 30mm tyre clearance then their bike is sh*t, or outdated/obsolete.

Sorry but I disagree. Things are moving on fast and i think all of these innovations have incremental benefits and help transform, in particular, winter road bikes from drab winter hacks or hand me down summer bikes with half arsed guards, into something reliable, responsive safe and a joy to ride in winter.

help transform, in particular, winter road bikes from drab winter hacks or hand me down summer bikes with half arsed guards, into something reliable, responsive safe and a joy to ride in winter.

Not really.... Bikes with mudguards and tire clearance have always been available. It's just that people dontnspend money on their winter bikes.

It got worse when crud released those road blade pieces of crap as where previously beyond the mandated date of mudguards compulsory those without would be told to sling their hook from the group rides and this forced their hand to get a proper winter bike. Now you have people showing up on their old summer bikes with those hateful pieces of crap attached which simply do nothing for those around you.......the whole point in mudguards on the winter bike in group rides is not for your arse but to stop you spraying the rider behinds face with salty water the whole ride.

agree:

Since then the only improvement has been dropper posts. Geometry tweaks are just that, tweaks.

I'm certainly no retro grouch, but a lot of this so-called "innovation" is pointless and ultimately it will destroy the road bike market with people becoming as disillusioned as we lot seem to be on here about what's happened to the MTB industry in the past 10yrs.

And at the same time: a 2017 full suspension trail bike is a nice piece of equipment. But that's no contradiction to above.

Problem is if the above

tweaks

This thread is about:

the bike industry is suffering

Many posts in this thread: incicate that the industry is ALSO suffering because they played the trick too often?

Personally not sure about it.
Why should the strategy stop functioning?

I'm amazed that shimano made their 11sp compatible with 10sp wheels. What are they playing at? Wheel manufacturers can't have been happy about that.

Maybe they're saving that for when 12sp comes out or even straight to 13. I'll bet that's possible with boost dropout spacing.

The strategy stops functioning when you then have large price increases coupled with uncertainty.

Mobile phone sales are tanking too, as are car sales.
Brexit means uncertainty.
Pound devalued so prices are up.
Bikes are often a bit shit with incomplete groupsets and shoddy wheels.
Standard keep changing who knows when to buy
Prices have snapped the elastic 3k+ for decent bike is too much

Please stop saying Brexit is causing this. It isnt. Mobile phones arent selling as our current phones are adequate for our needs. Iphone X doesnt seem to have done too badly, even at £1k.
Car sales - my car is 11 years old now. I'm not bothering even looking at newer cars, not because I cant afford it, but becuase my current car is still very capable of doing what I want.
My bike is the same. I've got a 15yo CX bike, the only one I'm likely to get rid of due to the desire to have disc brakes. My MTB is 4 yo, with 26" wheels, oh the shame, yet it does what I want perfectly, and I cannot see any reason to upgrade it at all, never mind getting a new bike.
Things last longer now, that is hitting producers - see Apple trying to get people to upgrade, by making their phones slower. Their 3yo technology is still good enough for most people.
£4k+ bikes. I really cannot see the benefit for average riders. DH racers, then yes.Road racers, possibly, general trail riding, no.
It's one of the reasons I gave up my ST subscription, it seems to be cool to review £1k+ wheels and £1500 forks, totally out of reach of the vast majority of people, and really puts me off reading the mag, I'd rather see reviews of £1-2k bikes, £200 wheels etc - the stuff that 'normal' people buy.

I find this debate fascinating.

As someone who bought their last 'complete' mountain bike around 2001 (frames/components only since, all 1 1/8 135mm), I now automatically look to the second-hand market for spares as the need arises. Recently, I've taken to hoarding components/spares that will only get harder to find as time goes on. EBay has NOS bits aplenty and I've hoovered up enough 1 1/8 Marzocchis to keep me going for the next few years.

All this means that I'm not spending my cash in the 'mainstream' industry and I suspect I'm not alone in this.

PS what alanl said....

uncertainty

Good point- holyzeus-bloke.

Trust is an important factor. Too much "Dubai" might scare the customers away...?

I'd rather see reviews of £1-2k bikes, £200 wheels etc - the stuff that 'normal' people buy.

my impression as well.

I'd rather see reviews of £1-2k bikes, £200 wheels etc - the stuff that 'normal' people buy.

Please stop saying Brexit is causing this

But brexit, trump, Tories etc zzzzz.

Actually I want some new forks but you can't even buy lyriks in non boost now? FU rockshox.
At least I can get fox 36's still but have to piss around getting my current 20mm hub converted.
In fact thinking about it, I will save 1200 quid and stick with what I've already got.
FU the entire bike industry.

scotroutes - Member
(....£1-2k bikes, £200 wheels etc....)

I don't read the mag or pay much attention to reviews but that's more in my realm of spending

I'm "careful" with my money and will seek bargains. 🙂

My last bike was a wee bit more than £2k but was such an amazing bargain that I took the opportunity (I'd otherwise have bought a Bossnut). Much of the rest stems from my time working in a bike shop. My most frequently ridden MTB is a Ragley with cheap forks from Germany, 2nd hand hubs and £25 rims. The notion of spending £3k on a bike would make me blanch. As someone already pointed out, you can get one with an engine for less 🙂

Thankfully there are still folk buying new, spangly toys and selling their cast-offs cheap. When that supply dries up I'll start to believe the marketers have got it wrong.

For less than the price of a Santa Cruz V10 X01 you can buy a 2018 KTM 250 TPI. A far more involved and sophisticated piece of engineering.

Be interesting to compare manufacturer, importer and retailer gross margins on the two, I suspect most motorbike dealers would be in shock, particularly regards spares etc.

If the industry wants a my few quid, make 142 rear spacing available on new frames.

And add adjustable dropouts so I can use my nice 142 26" wheels in your shiny new '650B' frame please. **** Boost, I love the look of the new Soul but won't be buying one because of that, well, and the fact it's probs too low for 26" wheels.

Manufacturing for export is helped by the falling pound the fact of raw materials having increased in price measured in sterling doesn't matter if you're selling back out again. It sums to zero. What it has done is made labour cheaper when measured in any currency other than sterling. So, British manufacturing benefits from a fall in sterling unless it's producing for the home market in which case it doesn't actually matter because although it's got more expensive it's no less competitive. The result is as already been said. Full order books.

The UK motor trade hasn't been affected by the drop in sterling, the contraction was predicted before Brexit, it's because we're seeing the tailing off of a boost from PCL deals - everyone who wants one now has one.

The bike industry is similar to the car industry. Getting more people into the sport, just like the motor trade pushing PCL, will cause a spike in sales but once people have a bike, as others have said, the innovations aren't really much of a draw to us mere mortals. If you're not already flying down a hill like Steve Peat or firing up one like Nino Schurter dropping £5k on a new bike with a 6mm wider rear end or half a degree off the head angle isn't going to get you there. Your "old" bike is likely to serve you just as well and that's especially good if you've got 3 years of payments left to make on it. The hype over the latest greatest geometry or wheel standard might even be counter productive if it drives the cost of second hand bikes down.

...lots of good arguments in this discussion.
Fun to read!
scotroutes - bloke:

Thankfully there are still folk buying new, spangly toys and selling their cast-offs cheap. When that supply dries up I'll start to believe the marketers have got it wrong.

Others:
I suspect that professional bike-reviewers / journalists get pampered from the big brands. Means the reviews we read are too often about the 8 k wonder sled.
People should buy the 8 k wonder-sled and be happy with it.
But I wonder about the number of reviews of these type of high end bikes.
Luckily there is from time to time a review about a Voodoo Bizango or Boardman or a Bossnut.
But generally: bike companies which produce budget type bikes aren't able to get "reviewed" from bike journalists? Is this possible?
Some (too many?) bike journalists are too happy to bike the 8 k sled not thinking about the fact that they got the sled "for free"...?

As already noted, most seem to be assuming the industry is struggling due to a shrinking high end market, the truth is that nobody makes much profit on a £4k+ dandyhorses and ego chariots...

It's interesting that Mango went tits up, they were a lower price point fashion/commuter brand riding the tail end of the "Olympic glow"...

I think it's just the UK getting back on the pre-2012 trajectory, I predict Clarkson will be PM by mid 2019... All Bicycle riding will be a distant memory within 6 months of his victory...