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I think it looks pretty good and I think the 1.5inch headtube is a good idea, it aint fun snapping a headtube off a frame so anything that makes it stronger is a good idea.
I still reckon the steel version is nicer and it seems like a bargain for a decent frame that looks like its had some thought put into it.
Surely Soul and Ragley are completely different geometry/end use?
They are, but I can only afford one decent bike, and if this'd been around at the time I think it'd probably have got the vote. Not suggesting they're the same, don't worry 😉
How about a BB30 bottom bracket shell to co-ordinate with the head tube?
Can you do ISCG with BB30?
What's the theory behind not dropping the TT for more standover clearance?
Looks like a serious filling rattler with those huge tubes.
is it harsher than the Armadillo you designed brant? as that frame must have cost people a fortune in Chiropractors to sort their backs out after riding them.
I don't remember the Armadillo being particularly harsh, what with a 27.2mm post and I did get a 3.0in Gazzaloddi in the back of mine (briefly).
I've still got it in the garage actually, I should have a rebuild.
But seriously, we've got quite a lot going on in the rear stays there, and the main tubes are quite clever.
It's definitely a more rigid chassis than the steel one though.
whats the geo like compared to a 456?
i was in the market for a 456 but since they are like rocking horse poo in 16" this (or the steel equivalent) may be the next best thing?
will the 16" look less like a gate as well?
cheers,
whats the geo like compared to a 456?
I think the Ragley is a bit more brrapp. or something 😉
I should imagine that it will be better than the next best thing.
Cables on top "I'll catch me nuts on them", cables on side - "I'll catch me knee on them", cables underneath "i'll catch my shoulder on them".
Which is why I prefer them all under the down-tube. Then the bolt on cable guides make sense too.
🙂
I've been umming and ahhing about saying this, so here goes (This is meant to be constructive criticism 🙂 )...
Brant you've designed some good bikes, and some good looking bikes, in your time, (and indeed probably one of the classics) but that is a horrible thing to look at, sorry. Maybe it's the colour, maybe the lack of graphics, but it looks like a cheapo motorists discount centre bike: Looks like it's over inflated. (And I like odd looking bikes like the Ti456 and my old Yeti 575)
I'd like to see one in a darker, classier colour I think.....
OK, flame me....
🙂
We like our tictac colours cos they are fun. The steel frame - blue pig - will be in an alt.colour of BLACK, and this model, the mmmbop will be in (it says here) Blue. Though I can't remember which blue.
1.5" headtube means the best of all worlds in my opinion, I can't think of a good reason NOT to have one on an alu frame. Why limit the adaptability of the bike because some people fear the look of change?
Is the 3.7lb with all the bolt-on guides and the paint? If so that's only half a pound heavier than my old Cannondale frame. Colour me impressed.
its a very impressive weight isn't it. You should be able to build up a nice play bike that doesn't weigh as much as your car 🙂
Just looking at the spec' sheets (for all that I'd be able to tell from them) but the Blue Pig and 456 Slacker seem quite similar (maybe a degree steeper HA?).
How does the ride compare between the two? Are there any other significant differences (is Blue Pig double butted rather than plain gauge?).
Cheers
ICSG tabs will fit around a BB30
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How come you can pop these out so much cheaper then cotic or pace?
Cheaper tubes than the Cotic, and less overheads than Pace I should imagine.
good design costs less to make
this thread has been hijacked!
Never mind the ally ragley, i'm very keen to see the steel pig!
Cheap, tough, bit-o-give, 20" frame (?), geometry that works downhill, numbers that add up for climbing, room for big comfy tyres, shortish top-tube for a gate.
Brant, you're a bad man.
resume thread... - the ally ragly looks lovely. Daft colours are the new black.
now i just need re-inforced ankles before i get back on a hardtail.
What's the theory behind not dropping the TT for more standover clearance?
Yeah, I'd be interested in this too. I like low TTs for nad clearance, and the way they make the frame feel a bit more 'chuckable' and wotnot. And they do look better too, since we've mentioned aesthetics.
That's the only thing I'm not wild about. But Brant knows a lot more about bike design than me, so I'd be interested in the reasoning for not doing it on a bike like this...
Ed-O is shorter, but has bigger balls than me and has had no drama.
When I stand over a bike I'm generally more towards the front of the bike anyhow, and therefore bending the top tube makes very little difference.
We always recommend people run 400mm posts, and our frames have long top tubes.
I will probably end up doing 14in models at some point (next run) if we get requests.
Tic tacs? 8)
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thing is brant good riders can easily compensate for frame issues, whereas crap (average) riders need all the help they can get, so a dropped TT and its illusion of less nad mashing potential is a nice touch.
I like the colour, it will be interesting to see how the frame looks when it has graphics on it.
Could someone please tell me if the bolt on cable guides suffer from the same stresses and points of weakness that have been mentioned in previous threads refering to bosses for a crud catchers?
As the positioning of one the cable guides looks quite close to the headtube.
Dropped TT look much better, but in terms of avoiding nad mashing I think Brant's obsession with short headtubes is probably as, if not more, useful.
That looks ACE Hora.
My Chumba XCL is in bright/tangerine orange! Love those two colours 😀
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I used to have a Patriot that offered me absolutely no nad clearance whatsoever.
I've gone on to have 2 more kids.
It always looked dangerous, but in reality it never was. I always fell off sideways or over the bars 😉
As the positioning of one the cable guides looks quite close to the headtube.
Yes. But it's in a more neutral axis/area of less stress, and is surrounded by gussetry.
It's the top and moreso the bottom surfaces of the tube that are highly stressed in that region. Not the sides. Not that you can go drilling holes willy nilly.
Also a nice round hole is quite low on the stress levels.
Mr P-Shift, if this new frame can pass the new CEN force/fatigue tests, then you can rest easy.
if anything, its arguable that these tests are too agressive. frames which have stood the test of time/rocks/drops/sketchy-fat-lads have also failed the CEN test.
14in models at some point (next run) if we get requests
Go on then, I'll have one in 14"
I personally like the look of a low top-tube. I'm only 5'9" and can easy get the saddle up to pedalling height on a 14" frame (Dialled Holeshot with a 410mm Thomson).
I've never seen the point of the raised and braced seat towers you get on a lot of bikes: why not just have a longer post? Though I guess they would make sense if I had loooong legs and wanted a short reach
I use a long post on my DMR Trailstar and I find the post flexing most worrying...
I've never seen the point of the raised and braced seat towers you get on a lot of bikes: why not just have a longer post?
I've never had a clear answer from any of these raised/braced seat tube bikes as to how far the post has to go in? Someone said they thought it had to go to below the "normal" top tube. In which case I'm not sure why they reinforce above that? Just make the seat tube the normal length, not longer, with a reinforcement.
Thing is, if you actually put a straight edge from weld to weld on the top of the tube, the amount of clearance at any point really doesn't alter that much from what a straight tube would be. And instead you've got a heavier/weaker/more expensive tube in there, or more/heavier/stiffer bracing, or whatever.
If you're stressing about half an inch extra clearance, then you're really clutching at straws.
i'd still think nicer full length outer under top tube cable guides, (a la Ti456) and iscg as standard, esp. if you're standardising on 1.5" HT's makes the bike more hardcore trail worthy.
ISCG Tabs would be a good addition
Never liked the idea ISCG, BB mounted devices will knock out the way if they get hit hard enough, ISCG ones just snap (either the frame of the device).
As for those holes being in an area of low stress..................
anyone remember scotts hi-octane?
I've never had a clear answer from any of these raised/braced seat tube bikes as to how far the post has to go in? Someone said they thought it had to go to below the "normal" top tube.
Agreed, they prolly don't make that much sense. Surely it just has to go to below the brace thing. Otherwise it is a bit daft and negates a lot of the advantage and it’s a waste of the extended ST and brace. If the seatpost can just go in to below the brace then it lets taller people ride it. But as someone who is a long-legged 6'3" I can't get away with pedalling a bike like a Sovereign with a 16" ST anyway cuz the seatpost needs to be too long, flexy, and I feel like I’m pedalling a girl's toy bike cuz the TT is so distant. So for someone it fits anyway, the raised/braced ST is a bit redundant. At least for a bike that's gonna be pedalled much.
But it [i]is[/i] nice to have a slightly dropped TT/extended ST like Cotic’s compact geometry or even on my Pompino. It's a good compromise. Makes it *feel* like a smaller more manageable bike than without the extended seat tower, even if in reality the TT is only marginally lower.
Also it looks, like, waaaay better.
It definitely looks better, which in the minds of most is probably sufficient reason to do it, especially if it doesn't add much to the cost or weight and doesn't have any negative impact on strength or performance.
@Brant - even you did it on the Planet-X Compo, both ti and alloy.... what was your reasoning at the time?
Question, is there much difference between the steel and the alu Ragleys? I mean is the alu noticeably stiffer than the steel or is it more microns?
So, is it more ARGH **** MY BACK
or more ooh that was nice wasnt it?
@ Brant - even you did it on the Planet-X Compo, both ti and alloy.... what was your reasoning at the time?
Well, it certainly couldn't have been so he could make it look nice... 😆
A dropped top tube makes it easier to ride the bike in a skirt. My Solitude has a ball-tickling high top tube so it's a pain to ride in a skirt, but I've never had problems when falling off.
Mike makes a very valid point.
Especially for Scottishists who wear frocks all the time.