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Thanks Gaz. I think actually I need to relax into it, enjoy BeMC and try not to get lost during the Wantage Marathon to see a real rather than virtual result as at Builth - top 30 would get my season goal, I was close to that in Builth by virtue of removing the lost time - and reset myself for the next MSG which for me is Hintlesham.
Adsh, a reminder if those who can't race, sorry to preach on whilst your in those circumstances . I've no idea what your last para means - I have had a couple of beers though...
Great posts today guys. I must admit, I had the same thoughts about the coach, changing something in the fuelling on the day of a big event, shocks me. Especially something that can have extreme reactions like caffeine gels etc.
I totally get where Kryton is and feel really sorry for him, maybe not the best phrase, bit i feel his pain and hope he finds the answer
I feel his pain too....I assure you I have experienced everything Kryton speaks about first hand. I am a massive self-critic and will beat myself up if I'm not at the sharp end of racing. I think 99% of people that do this sport are in the same boat too....if we weren't incredibly competitive, we wouldn't be 'athletes'.
I'm coached by non other than Oli Beckingsale. I have been for 5 years and we are still to this day discovering what does and doesn't work, what times are best for us and what style of motivation works for me.
Kryton - you have bags of motivation, if you didn't you wouldn't be on here scrutising your race after every race. Find a little (realistic) target in every race and use that to keep that motivation high. It will grow even more from acheiving those goals.
The BeMC is no small race. I did the Roc d'Ardennes UCI Marathon in Houffalize last week. I set myself a goal of finishing in the top 100. I finished 117th. Work out what kind of power/hr you need to average to get around and stick to it but don't go chasing it if your not meeting it....for example, I wanted to have a Normalised Average Power of around 280w for the UCI Marathon but by 35k I was down at 240w NP. I was never going to make the 40w back up so I just dealt with it and carried on.....it could have been the terrain that gave me a lower NP after all.
I feel like I'm waffling a bit now and probably not making the point I intend to...so in summary, be realistic in your goals. Reset them and start again with the basics like enjoying your events and just finishing or ridin all of the A lines etc.
And that goes for everyone 🙂
Kryton it's a quote from Gore Vidal that recognises the inner competitiveness in us all. Much as I"ll be happy when you succeed as you surely will also a very small part of me will be pissed.
Ha cheers. Gaz thank you, it’s good the hear from someone in the same races that does the same things and to know it’s not just me. Well done on having Oli as a coach!
On reflection this afternoon I think I need to remember that my Marathon results have likely improved and my XC results have dropped off - but that’s what I told my coach I wanted to do, target Marathons! I’ve lost sight of that, and I must remember that Cav doesn’t win GC’s but that doesn’t make him a crap rider, and Froome will not likely win a sprint.
Gaz is right - it’s the never ending strive for “better” which is hard to keep focus on when “better” means one thing, not everything. I need to keep sight of the one thing I started to aim for - top 30 or better in Scott Marathons, to which end I’m already close enough I must just sneak a bit further up the field later on the year.
I’m going to make a small promise not to use this thread as a negative outlet, because as much as it’s likely a pain for others I’m sure it’s a catalyst to a spiral of self doubt for me. I’m about to follow Gaz into Belgium and have a fantastic few days on my bike, I look forward to that, and will put up a small review next week!
I’m going to make a small promise not to use this thread as a negative outlet, because as much as it’s likely a pain for others
Don't thnk that at all, good days, bad days, all allowed.
What's the thoughts on oval chain rings for xc? Got to replace mine, half thinking about giving one a crack. I'm definitely of the sit and spin style of riding and I've heard they make most difference for people who stand and stamp a lot, but my natural cadence is pretty low
I do hope you continue to post up your true feelings on here. As racers we all spend so much time thinking about our performance that threads like these are so INTERESTING to read. I love talking about training but we run out of topics of conversation if everyone just posts up about good days.
I’m racing and living with Kryton over the bemc along with another team mate. We are very much of the mindset that this is a holiday to be enjoyed with the bonus of getting to ride our bikes every day. None of us are going to trouble the leaderboard so having a good time has got to be the priority. I’m hoping to ride at a pace where the world does not disappear into a sea of pain, but instead ride fast but be able to look at the scenery from time to time. Looking forward to kicking back after a days racing with a beer if I feel like it or simply just lots of good food and some dvd’s. Five days away from home and work, staying in a house with two mates. Sounds like a good time to me! Don’t want to let petty worries like race results spoil things.
What’s the thoughts on oval chain rings for xc?
Ferral I sit & grind also. I found that it does fill a small missing space in the stroke when climbing, and does actually provide more traction (HT) on the basis of a smoother overall stroke. I think it’s advantageous in a starting sprint also.
That said my newest (FS) bike is OEM round and I haven’t changed it, mainly because the chainring is very optimal to the chainstay and integral chain device (Scott Spark). I can’t notice the difference but I have noticed that my FS has much more traction that the HT anyway - same tyres, same width.
I popped along here to catch up on any last minute BeMC chat. As a bit of an outsider here (not racing XCO focusing on BeMC and marathons this year) a quick recap. Crappy winter and then a lingering cold in January meant that training only really started in Feb. Ive had a fairly consistent build up since then (3 weeks on, 1 off - culminating in a big 18hr week before last).
Felt fairly prepared but then disaster struck and came down with a 48hr vomiting bug last week. No training, feeling awful and I sit here today feeling like BeMC would be a complete disaster. Sobering therefore to read the above. 3 days riding my bike in foreign climes throw in some La Chouffe and I cannot understand what Ive been complaining about.
Thanks all, good to remember we do this for fun. I think my plan for BeMC now revolves around taking it VERY easy day 1 and see how things are half way through Day 2. The climbing really scares me as my big rides tend to be less than 2000m of climbing so going far beyond that for three days in a row is way outside my comfort zone. AT least the weather looks to be fairly alright subject to some dampness on the last day.
Will be sure to swing back here after and give a quick run down
I did the Gorrick 100 at the weekend, didn't really set a target position wise, but it was more of a sustained effort kind of target, after cracking out 10 hours at around 145-150bpm at Ten Under the week before, I set a self imposed target of averaging 160bpm for this.
It was a tad warm and the mixture of that and a course that seemed to been 80% twisty rooty single track took it's toll in the end, I was nudging the top 30 with nice consistent laps (45-47 min average for the 14km lap) having a nice duel with one of the Pivot Bombpods chaps when my hands started to feel really uncomfortable and hot, turns out they were starting to blister.
So with one eye on the Euro 24hr champs in 3 weeks and no wanting to go into that with a nice bunch of fresh tender skin on my hands I called it quits at 6 laps and settled for what turned out to be 45th place, at least it was a nice day out and I got home in time for tea with the kids.
"What’s the thoughts on oval chain rings for xc?"
I quite like my oval - in my head the stroke feels smoother, particularly climbing.
I've come to the conclusion I'm stickng with round. £50 is a bit much to try something I may not like.
EDIT - Steve- 10hrs at 160 bpm sounds totally nuts!!
Good work, Steve - my hands are covered in blisters from Sunday after just 5 laps.
Was 17th and had a miserable 4th lap before having a word with myself and upping the pace for the final lap and the cramps let-up.
Hey Kryton,
Got a link to those caffeine studies, sound an interesting read...
Think I had a similar reaction when I tried a shot last year
Well, rollingdonut and I are living the pre-BeMC pro life and lying on sofas watching the entire series of Long Way Round with the third member of our party, 1T, all of us stretched out on sofas with our legs up
Didnt do too bad on the accommodation in Marcourt:
and sampled a local beverage on arrival last night:
Feeling twitchy as none of us are used to lazing around, and the hills look nothing short of bloody hard work although the Ardennes looks absolutely beautiful.
Enormity of BeMC is kicking in...
Keep the updates coming. I don't know anything about this event and in all honesty the website was a bit rubbish IMO. But any MTB event like this certainly has an appeal before i get too old (maybe i already am LOL)
Just looking at the minimum times between feed zones to avoid the boot. Works out an average 11kmph day 1, 15kmph day 2 (the longest - 100k) and 11kmph day 3. Keep above those and we should make it!
It's the river crossing I'd be more concerned about. It's bloody huge, haha
The wall is, well a wall, but it's fairly short. I had to walk up it once I got cramp and it still took only a few mins.
There aren't any long climbs just constant up and down. There can also be some pretty open bits in the race so you'll want to get into a group to minimise effort.
I'm doing the opposite from most people - after racing marathons and stage races, this weekend I'll be doing my first ever xco race. Hoping not to embarrass myself!
EDIT – Steve- 10hrs at 160 bpm sounds totally nuts!!
It was meant to read 160bmp for the Gorrick 😉
Good work, Steve – my hands are covered in blisters from Sunday after just 5 laps.
Was 17th and had a miserable 4th lap before having a word with myself and upping the pace for the final lap and the cramps let-up.
@john_I good work, I don't know what it is with that place but the roots seem to be made of steel bars!!
The wall is, well a wall, but it’s fairly short. I had to walk up it once I got cramp and it still took only a few mins
Is that the one in Houffaliez, yeah it's not bad, bloody brutal 2 minutes into the Roc d'Adrenne though.
So who is up at Glentress this weekend for round 3 of the Nationals?
I've been sweating about not having a rear wheel race on but fortunately got the call yesterday to say my new wheel has been built and is ready to go!
Anyone raced at Glentress before, any idea what the course is like?
I'm heading up to Selkirk tomorrow after work to stay in an airbnb. Practice Saturday and race Sunday. Long drive back Sunday evening.
Really looking forward to it. Gridded 2nd row which is nice. I'll have a close eye on my rivals and hope to match my performance at dalby. I'm feeling good and my form should be where it needs to be come race day. I'm just hoping for a mechanical free weekend, which would be a first this year!
So who is up at Glentress this weekend for round 3 of the Nationals?
I'm entered, but a bit of a mess up by silverfish has left me shock-less 😭
Probably for the best, I've got way too much to do this weekend anyway.
...enjoy BeMC...
Er no. My woes continue resulting in 6:30 on the bike. Struggled from 51k. This thing is very ****ing hard, some tough climbs.
Goodnight.
Er no. My woes continue resulting in 6:30 on the bike. Struggled from 51k. This thing is very **** hard, some tough climbs
How did your time compare to the other lads you're with? What was the issue? Or just long and hard?
<span style="font-family: Verdana, Arial, Helvetica, sans-serif; font-size: 14px;">R8jimbob88- I am planning to race at Glentress but not entered. Haven't raced for a long time and still need psych'ing up even for the fun race on Saturday!</span>
I rode down from Edinburgh via the Pentlands and old drove road today having caught the train up from London on Thursday evening. I keep telling myself I've come too far not to have a bash!
Re: sweating about not having a rear race wheel- I'm on my decade old 13kg Mount Vision with leaking forks 🙂
Does anyone know how early I'd need to arrive to enter the fun race on the day?
How did your time compare to the other lads you’re with? What was the issue? Or just long and hard?
About an hour slower - Just too long and hard for me. Was fine until 51k, riding with good HR, then I started to feel the strain and saw the HR plummet, really struggle on the climbs even in 32/50. I'm just tired, and I think overtrained, I need some time off the bike when I'm back in the UK (no caffeine shots this week 🙂 )
Chin up Kryton, it's an internationally recognised mtb stage race, it was always going to be brutal, you've made it through day one, see how the legs are tomorrow. Finishing would be an achievement for many and it's all miles in the bank.
@twowheels, assuming standard 2.30 start I'd get there 12.30ish as may be queues at registration and you'll have to register before doing a pre-ride
Well, in many respects. a much better day today. 100k second stage with 3000m climbed, felt much better, I'm thinking due to the easier starting hills - less steep and challenging than yesterday. Still not on form with 8:01 moving time, but hey I'm looking forward to actually finishing this thing tomorrow. This is definitely the hardest thing I've done on a bike. Scenery is stunning, hills are very hard. Lots of people going backwards today after a hard ride yesterday.
Rollindonut & 1T are doing well, sitting at 300th place overall/150th Open Cat.
Now eating a lot.
Bucks off road sportive for me today in my continuing move to enjoy my bike. Such a great event. Looking forward but I've not been on my bike longer than 4hrs in the last year......
Unfortunately I've DNF'd BeMC. It's wet and cold here and I was shaking and yawning on the start. Did the first 10k climb out of la Roche very slowly and the fatigue was very evident<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">. </span>
Came down the first slippery single track and was having trouble seeing and correcting the bars, the inevitable happened, off I came, nothing worse than a bruised shin. At that point I was done, I'm just too tired for it to be safe.
I'm not disappointed though. I came in off form, I've had the opportunity to experience Europe's hardest MTB stage race and the beautiful Ardennes,the bike has been excellent. I shall now rest up before the next Scott Marathon in 2 weeks, then get some more endurance training done before the 12hr at 24/12 .
When I get back home I'll chat to my coach about my form, not enough rest? FIrst time coached with 5 months hard work taken its toll? Too ambitious? Need longer rides? Who knows, but right now I want to find some time to enjoy my bike again .
That's a very honest post and I'd love to have something more constructive to add. Your form though is a confusing one, you keep stating your coach is happy, but it's clear you are far from happy.
We are still learning about each other, and I've had a lot of other stresses off the bike, travel to Canada, significant issue at work...
HR is a good indicator. My usual resting HR is circa 46. All last week it was in the mid 50's and last night it was 64! I currently have a TSS of -54 .
My interpretation is that I'm just fatigued/overtrained after <span style="font-size: 0.8rem;">my first 5 months coached training, and need time to rest. I'm not upset about it, I'm still learning . And let's not forget - BeMC is bloody hard . </span>
No more negatives - Onward!
first 5 months coached training, and need time to rest.
Surely it's his job to know this? He should know when you're fatigued even before you know it's coming. I'd have thought he'd have you at your absolute peak for this one
Sorry to hear that Kryton- try and take away the positives. Getting over there and pinning on a number to begin with is a big achievement so don’t punish yourself too much.
As for your coach- sounds like he needs a kick in the nuts 🤣🤣🤣🤣
I know you love to be all secretive about it but I’m curious to know how you designated this event. With significant investment involved- it seemed like an ideal A race with an almost perfect gap to the Scott Marthon to re-peak.
You should have been chomping at the bit- not fatigued 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
-54 is nuts! Surely you’re going to struggle to get to anything like a peak for the Scott?
edit - sorry if that comes across negatively!
BeMC isn't a target race, the Scott's are. This was just planned as adventure to try out Let's not<span style="font-size: 0.8rem;"> blame him - there's a few things I've done against his wishes based on my gut feel such as last weeks MSG, and also I havent managed my sleeping and drinking well recently, so its my fault too. If you want to be a decent level racer you need to behave like one and I've been at best a C+ on that score. </span>
Like I said, we are BOTH learning . Anyway let's not carry on about it, I've had a decent weekend with 200k of the Ardenne ridden and 5000m climbed, and there's lots to take away. I'd rather hear about how well others have got on this weekend.
I'm too tired to post properly right now, but if your thing is climbing all day and hooning down the wavy fast lines scored into fireroads at a speed that makes the needle flicker into the 'this isn't wise' red zone then bemc is for you. Had such a great time and pushed myself harder than I've ever done before. Some sublime single track too especially on the second day.
Sorry to hear it Kryton - good to be in one piece and that which doesn't kill us makes us stronger!
Managed the 120 route in 7hrs which I was pleased with 3hrs longer than I've ridden in a year and shows my base hasn't utterly deserted me. Rode to power with good discipline, ate a heap and drank lot.
I also have over - 50 form but at the start of my training block. Some adjustment needed I think!
Nice one adsh.
Kryton - Do you think you've not been recovering properly/ resting enough with the training you've been doing? I know you mentioned a while back going on long walks on your rest week. It's something I've been thinking about a lot at the moment. I'm riding less than previously but am increasingly fatigued and struggling to elevate hr / put in hard efforts. However instead of getting home from a hard ride,having some food and sitting with my legs up for a while, with a toddler I'm now getting home, slinging the bike in the garage and going full gas trying to amuse/contain a relentless bundle of energy, often not having time to eat anything or even re-hydrate (not that I'd change that for the world obviously). I'm not to fussed at the moment as I'm not doing any real sprinty stuff close to max hr but I am wondering how I'll manage it when it gets near to cx season and I want to be doing full on efforts. I'm thinking I'll have to take it into account and do fewer or shorter rides.
as promised a little BEMC recap from me.
As Kryton and others have said, amazing race, stunning scenery but BRUTALLY hard.
Day 1 - scared by the climbs and being conservative, my riding partner and I took things fairly easy (although I still managed to average a 148bpm average HR across the stage). Finished way down in aprox 250th in Open Cat in around 5h30min. Felt good though having not dug too deep and legs still felt pretty good.
Day2 - Disaster strikes and my race partner goes down with stomach cramping. He starts but we literally crawl to the first feed zone at 20km. We phaff there for a while before he finally pulls out (gutted for him). I then tear off like its a XC race. nice and warm and trails are dry and dusty, perfect conditions for me. Rode really hard to 2nd feed zone at 50km after that conserved a little and then smashed the last 30km or so. Had a cracking day and legs were firing. Ended the day in 190th Open Cat in around 6h20 (big move up on GC so pretty happy all around). Averaged 146bpm across the stage which I was happy with. Good consistent HR through the 100km and felt like I had powere for the final climbs) Wondering what could have been had it not been for the slow start (but hard to tell if thats not what the legs needed?)
Day3 - Rain literally put a dampner on this stage. After Day2's effort I knew the legs would struggle. Did a nice deep warm up to try bring the legs around. Seemed to work as I felt good in the first 30km and find myself riding with a new group (including two fine gentlemen from Winchester who kindly towed me around - for which I'm deeply grateful if they are listening). This stage was tough for me, in part the mud made it even more difficult but mostly the stage looping around on itself in a two lap(ish) format really played with me mentally. From 30-50km I was digging really deep. Struggling mentally and physically and then just after the 50km feed stop my legs exploded. For the last 17km I was just chewing my bars. No matter what I tried just couldn't generate any power for the last climbs. Felt like I was hemorrhaging time and places through this last section. To add insult to injury managed to slide out on the last corner on bricks leading into the finishing straight. Finally finished in around 4h30 BUT up to 160th in Open (around 50th in my age Cat).
Overall I'm happy with the result. I showed some form especially through Day 2 and whilst I was disappointed with the end of Day 3 I probably pitched the effort level about right. Perhaps a little harder day 1 would have moved me up 10 places or so but difficult to tell. Despite some sickness earlier in the year some good consistent build up in the last 12 weeks led to a decent result. To my great surprise the climbing Day 1 & 2 seemed manageable as it seemed to flow a bit better although I found the climbing on Day 3 ridiculous (the nature of the double lap meant it felt like the repeated climbing was purely for climbing sake rather than as part of a great loop of trails??). I could feel that my ramped interval sessions paid dividends on the repeated short climbs.
Lastly, I would thoroughly recommend the BEMC to anyone looking for a epic, brutal but ultimately fantastic three days racing. The first two days are stunning routes (Day 1 was new this year) and whilst Day 3 was not of the same quality for me that may have something to do with the weather. I will definitely be back (not next year as the plan is the Cape Epic for 2019).
Sorry but as an add-on I'm also planning on being at the Scott. How do I recover in time for that in two weeks? Thoughts?
My current thinking is a few EASY recovery rides this week with some short high cadence efforts on Friday (if the legs feel up to it). Endurance road ride Sat (3hrs)
Next week plan to do some Climbing intervals (3min on 3min off) Tues and some ramped power intervals Thurs. Recovery 45min spin Friday. Then a pre race workout before the Scott (normally 4 or 5 30s efforts and one 5min effort over a short 1hr spin)
Great write up Buzzard, and well done I'm pleased you were able to get a really good result. Recovery wise, I'm resting completely until the Scott, with just a Club social ride on this Saturday for volume, a recovery spin on Sunday, and perhaps 2 x short "openers" during the week leading up to the Scott. My TSS is not predicted to be back at 0 (zero) until next Wednesday!
@ Ferrals - thanks for posting that and yes. I've definitely lost my top end and I'm thinking that with time/the bad winter I haven't managed enough volume for BeMC, timed with fatigue at the end of Winter training and my recent races, International travel and a stressful work load. In retrospect my last 3 weeks should have been less about racing XCO and more about lengthy Z2 rides, much more time in the MTB saddle and resting I feel. Its dull but probably correct, I just didn't get hardly any long XC rides done before BeMC.
I'm going to post a bit more wary on here - and with the greatest respect for others that are posting when I say this - I am of a nature that I take to comments quite personally/negatively and in the respect I don't help myself but opening myself up to them. There are those on here that don't train the way some of us/I do or with a coach and they don't understand the process, or the personal nature of the learning involved, I'm learning that too - see Gaz Hursts posts earlier. I have a good coach, we'll have a chat and see what I need to do to get better for the Marathons and my new target - the 24/12 12 hours solo. At least I have light on my side now to get the volume in, perhaps thats what I needed.
Kryton - from my perspective your posts on here have been massively enlightening. I'm not as "structured" as you (whatever that means really) and I dont have a coach but hearing your process has given me great insights and also perspective. Without this thread and you I would never have taken Day1 BeMC so sensibly and likely not have achieved what I did but more importantly not had nearly as much fun doing it. Really appreciate it. Hope to see you blasting away from me up the first climb in Wantage.
I'm new to this short recovery between events and Wantage is not really a specific target for me but would like to give it a proper go. I guess we will see when I get on the bike tomorrow for a recovery spin. hopefully the legs respond. My lower back, hips are still aching (really struggled with these on Day3) so that could well limit too much riding this week.
not had nearly as much fun doing it
Yeah, this isn't obvious is it? Its a brilliant weekend in a stunning location, I had an excellent weekend with Rollindonut & 1T and we had some good laughs. I think I would have got through day 3 if it hadn't rained, but it sapped my remaining energy and once I was off, living to fight for another day seemed the best thing to do.
My lower back, hips are still aching
Yup, me too!
Keep posting Kryton, will be good to hear of your progress.
I'm slightly frustrated at the moment. Next weekend is my main target xc race - its the welsh champs (not that I'll be anywhere near competing for that) and its a course i enjoy and really suits me being hilly with good steep lengthy climbs. In my current 'structured-not-structured' training regime I'd been really pleased to put in a couple of 150km (mostly offroad) training weeks with some good hill climb intervals and also been getting on top of stretching and foam rolling for maintenance and promoting recovery. Was looking forward to an easy taper week and hoping to turn up on sunday fresh and focused. As it is work had gone into overdrive, I spent all of last night awake stressing and have to spend the next four days driving all over the country so I'll get no riding in and will be exhausted come the weekend. Pretty much the perfect example of my previous post, the best laid plans and all. Still lookin forward to it though 🙂