Forum menu
Some good results in this lot, well done guys. That crash (or two) at the start of the Expert race looked horrible.
I had an awful start and dropped to about 25th place in the GV race while people people seemed to keep falling off in front of me, just had to watch everyone disappear up the trail for the first lap as passing was not easy on some bits. Eventually got going and recoved to 11th place at the finish which I was pleased with as I felt pretty good through the race, it would have nice to have a been a few places higher with a decent start though but happy with the weekend overall - I think it's the first time my HR has been much over 150 since last August, a bit of a shock to the system!
Dalby next!
I always knew that I'd been gridded optimistically (12th!) but getting a slow puncture that needed topping up twice definitely didn't help my chances of meeting my goal of top 30. I ended up 50th which I was a little disappointed with but I felt like I rode the race fairly well (managed to avoid doing my usual sprint, brake, sprint etc. in the twisty wooded sections which I was particularly happy with).
Next stop Dalby (possibly via a Midlands round).
@rollindoughnut good ride! That should help the gridding for future rounds.
I managed to make myself sick through coughing which wasn't nice. That justified to me that racing wasn't a good plan and to the Doctors that I needed antibiotics.
@ferrals - if your struggling to get your HR up that’s normally a sign of fatigue. It’s always a good indicator for me if I can get my HR up near max in the days leading up to a race then I know I’m in decent form.
Thanks for the results link.
Lad happy with 19th in Youth from a 14th start - not surprised as there were some big names gridded behind him. Chain dropped 3 times which I need to fix before next race.
Alison went the other way, 1st place finish from 3rd on grid in Vet women. Playing with the lap times is interesting and highlights what I watched happen in the race - first 3 laps were basically her and Maddi trying to batter each other into submission, racing faster than all Juniors, Experts and a chunk of Elite 🙂 . Gap developed / truce finally called on 4th lap and it all settled down so a few people from the other cats slipped back past.
Both looking forward to Dalby as it is much more their kind of course (big hill with more technical).
That crash (or two) at the start of the Expert race looked horrible.
Yeah. They were.
I think nearly every male race had a crash at the start
@r8jimbob88 - cheers, I think fatigue is probably a large part of the issue pretty much trippled my weekly milage the last few weeks to try and make up for a couple of months of slackness. Will have to tone it down a bit time-wise and start upping intensity
No idea how I stayed up in the Expert crash. Some poor fella fell into me full force from my right. He was already at 45 degrees when he hit me. I ended up sat on my stem and must have been steering with my knees as I’ve two massive tyre burn / road rash type marks on the inside of both knees from my front tyre.
Green and black kit perchance?
Yep that was me! Black shorts, green and black High Peak Cycles jersey. Take it you were at 45 degrees?
No idea, I was wearing a green and black Leicester Forest kit, wondered if I got knocked into your path?
Ah, thought you meant was I wearing green and black. Seems we both were. Not sure who hit me but they must have gone down hard on their left side. Any ideas what / who caused the crash?
Fact is everyone wants to move up but there simply isn't always space to do this. I almost went for a move between someone and the barriers as there was a gap, but my Spidey Sense said no so I held back and sure enough the gap slammed shut just as my bars would have been vulnerable. Even when you go for a risky pass you usually only gain one place. I feel it's better to save a bit of energy for when the race opens out.
First race of the season everyone goes a bit mental don't they? Maybe a comms briefing beforehand about holding a reasonably straight line and not being an idiot would help, Probably not though.
I must say I was impressed by the decorum when we ground to a halt at the first bottleneck. No-one behaved badly and there was no grumbling. We even cracked a couple of jokes about how dynamic our race had become. Lost 6 mins on that first lap but that's what happens when you're gridded at the back (and get briefly held up by a start straight crash). Got to work hard, get the results and move up towards the front rows where there is less chaos.
Rollindoughnut, well done on your result. Good to see you on the start line. I bottled it after seeing the crash right in front of us, want to get bit more strength in shoulder before testing it, which seemed to set the tone for the rest of the race for me. Didn't enjoy the really tight woods as couldn't seem to find any rhythm at all and lost the plot a bit and finished 56th. Was glad when got lapped just before the end of lap 4 as was just waiting for it to finish, but glad to get a race in as forgot just how hard need to push yourself. Roll on Dalby and Builth Wells marathon.
That expert crash looked shocking and we were the other side of the course, glad all unhurt.
I want to race Dalby but can't really face a 4-5hr drive each way.
Will be at Builth marathon though.
https://www.mudsweatgears.co.uk/
What's the Lee Valley course like then guys ?
Debating entering it as the weekend doesn't have any football for my son. The only downside currently is the location of it for driving etc... Not really ideal, but as it's reasonably early on Sunday, may work OK..
Weeksy, is fairly tame with a couple of technical bits - think Swinley . Hardpack with a couple of Tarmac sprints and a couple of drop offs Loads of parking . Quite interesting in the little short rises to suddenly find yourself right next to the North Circ as you crest .
Roads aren't busy in a Sunday and it's not congested there. If you entered Weeksy jnr you'll be traffic free to be early for the kids coaching/racing .
I'm going with the family, if I can make it on Saturday happy to chat .
Hmmm certainly a potential option then. Not sure the boy has any desire to race at the moment as it's all about the football...But that said, i don't think it would be terribly hard to persuade him 🙂
I'll certainly give it some thought.
I'm feeling a little lost at the moment i have to admit. We've got less than 4 weeks to the first XC race and i'd say my form is awful ! It's mostly i think over-training and under eating etc which is killing both my legs, my power and my overall performance. However, it only seems to be affecting my Zwifting. When i ride outside my form seems good and i'm still setting PRs when i'm trying. But on Zwift i have to say i'm struggling LOTS... once i hit about 40 mins in, i'm dying on my ar5e ! Today i did the Tour of WAtopia and after 40mins i was trying to hang in but i'd killed myself on a couple of kicks and hit the HR into the red, i had to recover lots before putting in the rest of my planned ride. It's also not helping me with the fact that the trails are just a complete mess of mud and slime, so i'm not actually getting any sort of a chance to put in any outdoor stuff on dirt.
My only consolations are that i'm hoping everyone else is suffering in the same way with mud, along with the fact i'm by quite a way now at my lowest adult weight in history. If i can get the resting right and take the dead feeling out of my legs closer to the race, i'm hoping i can put in a decent performance.
I actually sat last night and thought about a Specialized Epic Comp Carbon as a skills compensator. But i think i'll wait to see how i do/feel in the first race of 2018 and whether it would actually help me, or if i'm still so far off the guy in front that it's not of any relevance.
I've been sitting and pondering the which regarding bikes and thought "I wonder....."
Quick email or two later and i have the option of a Demo on a Specialized Epic Carbon Comp in a large for the weekend. Cost is £50 for the demo/loan which seems fairly reasonable, although could also work out remarkably expensive if i decide to go for it !
[img] 
[/img]
The only thing i won't be realistically able to do it a comparison between both bikes, unless i get someone to wait at the start line with the other bike and i jump off one and onto the other LOL... which is sounding a bit daft to me, but could arguably be the best solution to finding out the answer.
Of course i could be being a complete fruitcake here and just sod all the random ideas, accept i've trained and dieted the best i possibly can and accept that's it... I've got the bike i've got and use it and accept it.
Thoughts as always appreciated.
Weeksy, you're starting to remind me of me 😉
What I've learned - mores since being coached - is that is you, not the bike. From your penultimate post here I'd suggest you have a rest. Training is based on periods of (mostly extreme) fatigue followed by rest - thats when the magic happens. This goes mentally as well - give your head a break from all this worry about under performance or meeting targets and use this break in the weather this weekend to enjoy yourself. Its very hard to trust that process, I know I'm experiencing it this week. 🙂
If you want a new bike get one, but I'd suggest that ^^ with your enjoyment of partaking as opposed to results driven anxiety its an investment too far as its very race orientated and you'll get fed up with its single use focus when your results aren't really affected, and it'd be a shame to see you sell it on later having lost some cash. If I were you, and this time last year I was to some extent, I would buy a fast Trail bike - a 100/120mm bike that can be used for racing but also has a grin factor on the trails. This is where I went with the Spark - I seriously considered the 120mm version but once I rode one I realised they feel a lot more travel than they have, and with Marathons as a focus it was easy to defer to 100mm yet that bloody Spark is flipping manoeuvrable, fast and swallows the bumps yet has the twinloc to give it some firmness when needed - the STW review of it is very accurate. I'll be using the Spark at the Lee Valley MSG, yet I can't wait to train & play on it in the woods when Summer arrives.
Ignoring the Spark, start a "what 100mm bike with a 68 degree approx HA and short stays/modern 29er geo" thread, pick a bike and and race it. But also use it for Trails for the grin factor - you don't need 140mm+ to have fun around the SE, keep your Whyte for lazy less focused days and Trail centre adventures.
An alternative; I know you don't like "Training", but why not pick a 4/6 week plan for £15 or so from Traineroad, TodaysPlan, Zwift follow it religiously including the rest period 6 weeks before an event? It might remove your head from the "I'm battering Zwift but nothings changing" mentality before you throw Bags of Sand at a new machine, and I think you'd feel stronger / more focused on the bike you have already? I did that coming 4th in a winter race on the same HT I'd been using for 18 months prior - my coach said "See? it works."
Now for my own bit of advice seeking. How to deal with deliberate underperformance mentally? I ask because my focus on training for Marathons and BeMC means my coach has warned that I will be entering my XCO races fatigued this year. However, I'm finding it hard to prop up my ego as I slip down the XCO results sheets.
Any tips or tricks of do I just need to learn to put my ego aside for the bigger picture?
An alternative; I know you don’t like “Training”, but why not pick a 4/6 week plan for £15 or so from Traineroad
I honestly don't have the mindset/commitment to do so.
From your penultimate post here I’d suggest you have a rest. Training is based on periods of (mostly extreme) fatigue followed by rest – thats when the magic happens.
You're not the first and i doubt the last, but i find this SO SO hard to do so. Resting, not riding etc, i sit there with "why are you not riding, there's a nice event today, that will be fun, are you still sittting there... No... Cool, get on with it" It eats away at me, it sits in my psyche and drags my mind into a dark place. I know just reading that back it sounds overly dramatic, i'm sure it is exactly that... but it's very very close to my mindset.
start a “what 100mm bike with a 68 degree approx HA and short stays/modern 29er geo” thread, pick a bike and and race it. But also use it for Trails for the grin factor – you don’t need 140mm+ to have fun around the SE, keep your Whyte for lazy less focused days and Trail centre adventures
That's the Specialized above though isn't it or indeed the Spark ? My T-130 is reasonably light/fast i think as it stands and i'm not sure i'm going to gain a lot from the weight loss, we're talking minimal amount of performance improvements i'd guess.
is that is you, not the bike.
Of course, i totally get that. But apart from the training plan and resting, i'm not convinced i can do a lot more myself. I've dropped 12kg this year approx and whilst i've lost some power, i'm hanging on the best i can to what i have.
You’re not the first and i doubt the last, but i find this SO SO hard to do so. Resting, not riding etc, i sit there with “why are you not riding, there’s a nice event today, that will be fun, are you still sittting there… No… Cool, get on with it” It eats away at me, it sits in my psyche and drags my mind into a dark place. I know just reading that back it sounds overly dramatic, i’m sure it is exactly that… but it’s very very close to my mindset.
Its not just you. I ended a 4 week training period on Monday with 400k ridden over the long weekend. I didn't want to look at a bike yesterday, was so exhausted I was forgetting words when talking to people,
My workouts this week are - 1 x session of 4 x 15s sprint intervals tomorrow, and a pre-race 30 mins Saturday. Thats its. By the time jump on the start line at Builth on Sunday I'l be gagging to go.
I mean this in the nicest possible way Weeksy - you've done/do a stellar job of keeping fit and dropping weight, but I think you need a short break to get out of this cycle. I bet if you did nothing - put the bike away, fettle with the Motorbike, have a small beer - between today and Sunday and rode the Gorrick on Sunday on the T130 you'd be posting on here what a great time you had.
Ah, can't do Gorrick, we're away at Rockingham for a trackday on Sunday.
I bought the wife a new ZX6R and if the weather does something nice, it's her debut on it.
I do hear you... honest... but DAMN it's hard to do.
It is 🙂
Enjoy the weekend with the family, do no more than 2 short hard Zwift sessions next week and come to Stratford MSG. You'll be buzzing.
I also train in blocks. Mainly 3 weeks on followed by 1 easier adaptation week. The easy weeks are a bit dull but essential and you end up starting the next block in great form meaning you can train harder = better results.
Now we're in race season I've schedueled a taper week leading up to each of the national rounds. The weeks inbetween will just be treated as a regular training block and i'll be treating some races as training sessions meaning I'll not be on form for them. That being said, at this point in the year I don't expect to build any more fitness. The hard work was done between October - March. It's all about sharpening up at this time of year with the fitness that you've already gained otherwise you'll burn out towards the end of the season like I did last year. You need to differenciate between power and fitness. It's all well and good having a monster FTP but if you're fitness is lacking, you'll not be able to do those repeated efforts needed during races.
I also use Training Peaks and the workouts in the Trainnerroad plans. I'd be lost without those two (plus a power meter!)
@Weeksy - when you are racing for fun like us it's not just about results its equally about how you want a bike to ride. An XC race bike feels like an XC race bike however fast you are going. Personally I much prefer the sharper feel of an XC bike over a trail bike - you might too. I'd say spending £50 to see if its for you is well worth doing.
Weekly - could you hire that bike and use it at the MSG race?
r8jimbob88 could almost be my coach! My plan - updated yesterday - is almost the same. The MSG monthly races and now the mid week London Beastway races are effectively fatigued training races during a periodised plan leading to the Scott Marathons.
Any tips or tricks of do I just need to learn to put my ego aside for the bigger picture?
I'd say about 2/3rds of the race I do are in a state of fatigue, such is the nature of trying to get enough training load in. I do sometimes struggle with motivating myself during the race, getting shelled out the back of groups I can usually hang with and so on, but find the experience on the whole motivating in the long term. Sometimes a bad result is needed to kick you into gear.
Have you considered not racing though? I know it's nice catching up with everyone at regional events, but you can get in a lot more training load from a week without a race in it. The old, 'race yourself fit', isn't very effective.
I have yes.
There are some races I'm not doing - for example I'm scheduled for 7 of 9 Beastways but they are all optional and I'll be on-the-day entry only, and I have an alternate plan if I don't attend. Also my coach has worked with me to put some local 10 TT's in as short hard session replica's but more as a point of difference to keep me going stale mentally. Of course I also have tapers and rest period whereby I won't compete at any level.
Just out of interest, when planning your season, did you consult with your coach when choosing races, or have you gone to them with a complete list of races you want to do?
I'm not criticising your approach in any way, just interested in how people plan their seasons (I'm a sports science student with a vague plan to go into coaching eventually).
I'm finding the demands of marathon training and racing (as that's what I'm focusing on too) make racing other events somewhat challenging. I've taken to riding to races (Gorricks, only 30-60 minutes each way) to try and get more hours in, although that has backfired on me occasionally, achieving full bonk and getting the train instead.
Although I know it's all to easy to go chasing CTL, and it's an overrated system, it still makes me feel a bit itchy when I drop 5-10CTL over a national XC weekend, with rest on Friday and course practice on Saturday. I think this question of load is why you don't often see the real marathon specialists show up at short XC events, even though they'd probably do fairly well.
I've worked with a few coaches over the last few years. All seem to work to 3-4 week blocks then an easy week. All prefer training as opposed to racing fit as they say too much racing lowers the possible time to build (That's if you taper even for a day or two before each race.
However I seem to respond well and suffer less in a race if I have raced the week before for example.
Mentally more races can sometimes help me cope as opposed to spending weeks and months training for one event which can cause anxiety.
Try not to judge yourself against others...step back, see how far you have come and compare yourself to yesterday.
Make some mental goals for race day too. This is what it's all about for me now.
Don't get hung up on the number you come over the line with. Position doesn't tell you anything like the full story of your race. So don't simply judge your race, sucess, training or coach on a number.
For most racing is not much more than a hobby. Don't get to caught up in it all. Enjoy your training. Try not to make everything a means to an end.
Don't be too hard on yourself...I think it takes balls to even get to the start line.
This is what I think is important.you might be more ambitious.
Just out of interest, when planning your season, did you consult with your coach when choosing races, or have you gone to them with a complete list of races you want to do?
For me both. I've let him know what I'd like to do, then he's suggested I do / don't depending on how that fits in with the training/resting at that point in time, a bit like Sefton is suggesting. Currently any XCO I'm doing is basically race intensity or specificity training, and he's warned me I'm going in tired, to pull out if I feel any strains or chances of injury, and not to expect particularly good results.
There's been one event - Monday's Easter Sportive - he didn't want me to do but we came to a compromise that I'd have to do the whole thing in Z2, it took me over 4hrs to do 100 road. 🙂
When I say all of the above you need to factor in that I have about 10hrs training a week available so volume is an issue, therefore there is a compromise.
Don’t get hung up on the number you come over the line with. Position doesn’t tell you anything like the full story of your race. So don’t simply judge your race, sucess, training or coach on a number.
This is key. When I raced Hadleigh MSG I was tired, I'd had a vomiting bug two days before (and as we know a shitload of nationals turned up) and I came 29th, nearly pulling out on lap 2 but forcing myself on. Now, 2 years ago getting past 30th fully fit would have been a celebration for me, so on analysis to do it with extra, better competitors included and whilst fatigued & sick is probably a minor victory. It'll be interesting to see how I move up fro back of the grid at Lee Valley next week assuming all is well.
I guess I was thinking about not getting fixated on a position. For example ...anything other than top 10 is a fail. Often end position is completely out of our control and largely about who's racing.
For me bike racing is a mental sport. I don't mind all the training.
For me bike racing is a mental sport. I don’t mind all the training.
This is where I'm struggling - I don't have the mentality to suffer any more in training. I'm not really sure where its gone. part of me thinks that its beacuse my diets gone less healthy and I've put on almost a stone so it actually is harder!
Yesterday I happened to be in Devon so decided I'd have a lunch blast around Haldon trail centre and and the thought of seeing where I got to on the strava leaderboards gave me the motivation to push it. Locally I don't have strava motivation beacuse I'm not as fit as I used to be so am not getting near my PR's. Maybe an excuse for more trips further afield!
I find it hard to consistently train without a coach. I start off well but after a few weeks I gradually go soft and start missing workouts. With a coach I always find the time to squeeze the session in at some point of the day.
I know what you mean - it also doesnt help if you are struggling for time and you see people knocking out hours and hours on the bike.
While we are on the weightloss topic - anyone any feel for if the scales that do body fat are in anyway good? My feeling is that they are just snake oil but would be nice if they are good.
I think calipers are the way forward when it comes to body fat measurement.
I had some scales that did it but my body fat doesn’t really fluctuate. I’d just stick to looking in the mirror personally.
I’m not too bad when it comes to sticking to the plan. I’ve got a few friends that train religiously 18 hours a week in all weather so figured if they can do it, so can I!
The thing that depresses me a little is knowing that this level of training and fitness isn’t sustainable over the long run so eventually I’ll have to give it up, and be unfit again ☹️
Go vegan.haha.
Wife lost 1.5 stone in 4months without exercise.
Go <span class="skimlinks-unlinked">vegan.haha</span>.
Genuinely works. I lost a bit of weight from not grating cheese over everything. Put it back on now though, turns out dairy free dark chocolate is still pretty calorific.
any feel for if the scales that do body fat are in anyway good
Could be useful in the long run for comparing against past results, but they return vastly different values based on hydration and inflammation.
Calipers are better, but their accuracy is reliant on the experience and consistency of the person wielding them. They tend to give 5(ish) percent lower body fat than a DEXA scan (the 'gold standard', as out lecturers always put it).
Interestingly, I had a DEXA scan a few weeks ago as part of a study (alongside VO2 max and various other tests), and it came out at 22% body fat! It seems everyone in the study got a really high value though, so I'm taking it with a pinch of salt. Definitely some mass to be lost though.
but they return vastly different values based on hydration and inflammation.
Cheers. I actually read something similar to that last night - seemed like they can be accurate so long as you follow the guidelines which include taking at the same time of day, with the same hydration level etc. Which realistically makes them less than useful for an average person at home. Need to get new scales but will jsut ge a pair of decent standard scales. I work at a uni that has a sport science dept so can get the caliper test reasonably cheaply but its jsut finding the time. Last time I had it done was about 2 years ago. Probably not that relevant to keep track of for an enthusiast anyway. The reason I'd be interested is I've gone from 9 to 10 stone over the course of about 6 months without noticing I'd been getting fatter till I stood on some scales
I was told to avoid this. Far better if you are training to rely on <10% fat content and Carb/Protien per KG intake appropriate to the demands of your training than risk muscular atrophy by attempting to drop weight uneducated.
Support your body don't deny it and the rest takes care of itself. Its how the pro-peleton eats 5000cals a day and doesn't get fatter or weaker.