Trying to keep this brief, my one and only frame (2018 Dartmoor hornet) is no more due to not recovering from some major work,
Looking around for something new (needed before the 24th September as I have a bike packing trip around King Alfreds Way planned) I’ve found two that have piqued my interested…
Small Identiti aka frame with bb, crankset and headset, will need to transfer the rest of the parts from my existing bike
Medium 2018 Santa Cruz chameleon full bike and 3x the cost of the identiti but a full and recently serviced steed which leaves me to sell the useable parts from my existing bike or fill up my parts drawer
Both used and apparently receiving a lot of interest so I’m keen to move quickly.
at 5’6”(ish) the small identiti and medium Santa Cruz, I believe, are the right sizes for me
And am ready to pull the trigger on either but can’t decide which way to turn
Which of the two would be the most versatile or decent nearly-do-it-all frames? Which of the two would the majority pick if it had to be their one and only bike?
Normal riding habits cover everything from canal paths to woods, forests and trail centres to take-me-anywhere-and-everywhere adventures, all day adventures and short blasts locally
Any help/advice/pointing in the right direction/ordering which to go for would be absolutely brilliant and massively appreciated
I would take the Chameleon, based on never having ridden an Identity
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Any chance of a test ride on either? Guessing not the Identity if it's just a frame, but could you try the SC?
Is the Identity a jump frame?
If so Surely the chameleon would be the better all rounder of the two?
I would imagine you could ride anything on either.
I took my cove stiffee on a two week bike packing trip, down the DH at Fort William, raced a couple of cross country races plus loads of other things.
It probably wasn't the "best" bike for any of those things but I had great fun doing it all!
recently serviced steed
Has your horse been impregnated?
@tall_martin the aka is what has become of the identiti mr Hyde mtb frame
@Andrewh unfortunately no chance to try out the Santa Cruz as is 370 odd miles from me ha ha
So technically buying blind on both which is why I call upon the STW Massive for invaluable advice
I don’t know if this helps but i wouldn't buy a frame and a few bits unless those bits were separate.
My last frame died due a stuck bottom bracket cup. I was then looking for a cheap frame for to take the bits from my dead frame for my son. In my mind every time i saw a frame that included a bottom bracket i was suspicious that it was included as it was stuck.
If you know all the bits aren't stuck that's different. Of course we don't know that the bb isnt stuck in the Chameleon. But if you're stripping a frame to sell why not strip it why leave bb in.
Also the with the Chameleon you know you have the right size seat post, the hoses are the right length etc. Plus even i've heard of the Chameleon should you need to sell it
Chameleon- super versatile. Done.
@ampthill some very good points you make, just for clarity my current frame (now dead) doesn’t have a bb or crankset anymore which is where the problems started and replacements would cost more than I really want to spend on a frame that I have grown a little unsatisfied (if that’s the right term) with, I won’t bore you with the long winded details (unless you REALLY want to know)
As I understand it, the person selling the identiti aka frame wants a more DH orientated bike and has stripped it for the parts he wants to keep and is selling the rest hence including bb and crankset if I wanted them too
The chameleon is a full bike and apparently recently been serviced
I quite like both frames but not sure which would be the best to go for. I realise no bike can do it all but from those two, I guess I’m asking what would be the best at getting near as dammit
@onecheshirecat I’m leaning towards the Santa Cruz to be honest, just because it’d solve a lot of problems for me but then it is a shed load of money
Can anyone advise as to what a fair price for a used 2018 Santa Cruz chameleon (the green and purple one) would be?!
Looking at the frames they’re fairly similar other than the head angle. Both have very short chainstays for 27.5+ or 29er, similar reach, short seat tube etc.
However, the Santa Cruz is probably going to feel sharper and more lively with that 67.5 degree headangle vs the 64.5 on the identiti. That head angle change plus marginally longer chainstays is going to make the identiti more stable at speed and better on steep tech I’d imagine.
I’d probably just prefer the geometry of the identiti for what I ride - but for your balance I’d probably lean towards the Chameleon.
Adding to that the more slack bike of the 2 has an owner who is stripping parts to go on something more downhill orientated probably points to the identiti having had a hard life already.
Price is difficult on the SC - looks like it was £1999 new with a 34 Rhythm / NX / Level Ts / wheels are novatec hubs with Raceface rims.
Without Covid I’d be thinking 50% of the value lost over 3 I DH years so about £1k. With Covid - not the foggiest idea!
Looking at the riding you suggest, Chameleon every time for me.
Not as slack (assuming std fork travel) and a great all rounder.
I have the carbon version and it has been the longest serving hardtail out of all I've had in the last 15 years.
What is actually wrong with your frame? You've hinted at the bottom bracket area? If it is crossed or the threads damaged, maybe get it chased out and see if it can be ridden for a while, just to give you more time to properly ride ad test a few others.
@joebristol Thankyou for that, some more excellent points to note, looking at around 1300 for the chameleon with (looking at the pictures from what I can make out) nx group / level brakes, RF AR40 wheels and recon forks
@twonks Thankyou for the reply, long story short, with my existing frame there was factory fault with it when I bought it (another long story as to why I kept it) that meant the bb shell hadn’t been threaded at all, I’ve had a bottom bracket in it that, to quote the local bike mechanic when he put it together “screws onto itself inside the shell”
The bike has been with another bike shop that said they could thread it for me for a couple of weeks now, so far there have been broken tools, lots of heat and fire, hacksaws, hitting, pushing, pulling and a lot of effort to get the existing bb and crank out, everything out and the shell cleaned up, the guys at the bike shop said they COULD still thread it if I wanted but would leave “absolute minimal meat” around the shell and any new bottom bracket cups which is making me doubt how much I could trust it going forward
Thanks for the update. Sounds a tad iffy to try repair then !
If you were near the midlands I was going to offer my services as I have the tools to thread it but with little meat on the metal you will always be questioning it as you say.
The Chameleon spec seems like the base level which is still ok but quite heavy and somewhat pricey. Covid pricing effect I suppose.
If it's well looked after and the drivetrain not overly worn, I'd look about £1100 tops, but he'll probably get his £1300, such is the market nowadays.
Edit - sorry read other replies.
£1300 for Recons and NX. Is it just me or does that seem steep?
On one scandal is gx, 35 gold rl is £1100, new
Yes they are in stock
https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/can-we-have-a-whats-the-new-scandal-like-to-ride-thread/
Don’t think it’s really fair comparing a scandal to a chameleon.
Agree it is a steep price though, and the Scandal is also a great bike.
Have since messaged mr Santa Cruz with a lower offer and it appears he has “lost the chain” so new chain will be needed, not sure how you lose a chain but I’m now wondering if there’s more to it, wondering whether to back out or not considering a test ride is currently unavailable to me
Have found another medium 2018 chameleon for sale (again too far away to test ride) for £1600 in “mint condition” with Fox 34 Rhythm Forks, RockShox Reverb Dropper Post and Sram Brakes and Gears that I’m considering,
As much as I’ve come around to the idea of the Santa Cruz, I’m Still looking for a new bike or frame, any recommendations for a do it all (or decent enough at lots of things) frame or bike greatly welcomed
I'm in agreement with suggesting a Scandal at that price over a lower spec Chameleon. No matter how well looked after it is, dropping down a groupset and a level on the fork, and getting 3 year old kit, for more money seems a waste just to get a "better" frame.
Scandal is a fantastic bike. Friend bought one as a do it all hardtail, and he loves it. Weighs a little more than my chameleon, but not that much. Plus it would be brand new.
@alanoleary in hindsight i think I'm inclined to agree with you
If i’m honest, I think my desperation for getting a new bike/frame before the 24th is starting to blur my vision a little
Chameleon would be a better all-rounder IMHO.
If the Scandal is in stock you may well get it in time. Just add a Brand X dropper and you have a trail ready bike with decent, durable kit
Your existing bike sounds a mess - why were you taking out the screw together bb? Sounds like an ideal solution for the problem with the frame.
A Santa Cruz has a better frame than a scandal in terms of quality / weight / features so you can’t 100% compare them. But it’s a fair point that the scandal is a decent bike and good value. Up to you if you want something fancier with a brand name - or something new that should have a warranty and no issues with equipment on it.
I think if the SC has Recons instead of Fox 34’s I’d want to pay a bit less than £1300 - near £1100.
Re the scandal. If the geometry is near the carbon Whippet, it will ride very well.
My N+1 excuse for a gravel type rigid thing is a Whippet and it is a great bike.
I’d leave that chameleon if the chap wants £1300 and can’t be bothered to sort a chain before selling it.
What have shops like Pauls or maybe Merlin got in around £1300?
I’d be inclined to get something new if at all possible.
@joebristol the bb that WAS in my old frame was starting to squeak and rattle so figured it was on its way out, was used when it was installed and has done over 1.5k miles since so it was probably about time to sort it out
If the other “mint condition” SC I’ve found is specced with fox 34 rhythm’s, and a reverb post, sram gx and level t’s and wtb wheel set, would 1600 still be a bit overpriced?
Postage costs also to be spent
You could just buy another thread less BB for your Dartmoor. £40
For a new bike I like the look of Ribble's offerings & they are ready in 7 days
https://www.ribblecycles.co.uk/bikes/mountain-bikes/
@joebristol the bb that WAS in my old frame was starting to squeak and rattle so figured it was on its way out, was used when it was installed and has done over 1.5k miles since so it was probably about time to sort it out
If the other “mint condition” SC I’ve found is specced with fox 34 rhythm’s, and a reverb post, sram gx and level t’s and wtb wheel set, would 1600 still be a bit overpriced?
Postage costs also to be spent
I don’t think I’d pay that - it’s proper Covid tax in my opinion.
£1300 IMO would probably be fair if it was in good nick.
If you can get a scandal with decent spec I’d be inclined to go that direction if £1400 and £1600 can’t be negotiated down.
I’d also check if there are other bikes in stock anywhere new - the likes of Vitus / Ribble / Calibre / Sonder etc
If it was me I'd buy a the scandal so i have a bike for the trip. Then sell all the bits from the old bike. That might generate the funds to upgrade the frame, which you can also sell.
But i think that changing the tyres, fork or wheels will have more benefit than changing the frame
I don't own a Scandal but my son does. He found the handling a bit weird coming from a 26 inch wheel old schoold fs. But it arrived working
These things are of course much easier when it's some one else's money. I think used bikes can be a great buy. My main bike for 10 years was a used fs. But I'd want the time to find the right bike from the right seller etc.
The ribbles look good but £1400 for sx and a steel stantion forks looks pricey even compared to the used santa cruz. That looks about what you'd pay for retail shop bike. Not a great time to be bike shopping
Ps i have no idea what a used santa cruz should cost
I fancied a Chameleon a few years back but just couldn't get past the price for a new one or what people wanted second hand. Lovely looking but terrible value.
I've noticed a few Orange Clockwork Evo's about for reasonable money recently so they could be worth a look. Orange can also be terrible value but there are more about and prices have been coming down.
Update…
Good news…
Soooo, upon further inspection, the bottom bracket shell on my Dartmoor CAN be threaded without any worries or concerns
Not so good news…
The bike has to be sent off and will be away for another “week or so”
Planned King Alfreds Way trip starts next Friday…
Have spotted a not too unreasonably priced yet pretty well specc’d identiti AKA not too far from me…
making enquiries in regards to buying it and then seeing what I fancy keeping between the two once I get my hornet back
Good idea or bad idea?! What do we all think?!
If you’ve got the money to spend on having two similar bikes then go for it. As an alternative could you hire a bike for a few days - might workout cheaper?