[Closed] That new Cotic Rocket

Houns - Member
If I send you a pic of my cock can I then post my views about the bike?

Oh, sorry, so we're not allowed to comment on a bike now are we? Oh dear. Best not start a thread about any of Brant's bikes now. Someone might post an "opinion" and we can't be having that, now can we?

😐

Sorry, that was a still from my helmet cam

One of the best looking bikes I've seen. If I was in the market for a 150mm trail bike this would be very high up on my list. Damn sexy and it sounds like it rides just how I would want it to. yum.

brant - Member

I think its lovely that Cy come on here and discusses things.
I do find it amazing that Coogan, SBrock , Gary Lager and others can be quite so rude about things that fine honest people have crafted.

I mean, this is Cy. His own money. His own time. No big corporation.

It's just seems really rude.

I think it's lovely too, it's one of the things I like about the brand. Just disappointed by the bike - I speak my criticisms as someone who has two black Cotics in his shed, both size L - and would be open to adding another. Just a bit disappointing that it's not good looking in the way all his other bikes are, at least not in large.

As for the nuts sticking out of the swingarm, that's just clumsy. Another word you wouldn't normally use about a Cotic.

(Edit - from cy's reply below, they are more of a pre-production thing, so fair enough)

Those pivots are becoming tricky. Basically they're really hard to package, but need to be there to make everything work. They're pretty wide, so can't be a fancy alu bolt cap heads, and the original prototype ones were round, but had potential to spin when undone from the other end as there was nothing to grab them with, so I put spanner flats on them. They don't look as nice, but they work much better for maintenance. They're also only 2mm thick, so I still feel 'sticking out' it a little harsh, but then it's not me I need to convince.

You can't recess them because the tolerance build up and paint ingress would make it unworkable. I don't want to thread the boss in the seatstay because it's horribly hard to make sure they're straight post welding. They'll look much better on the production frames because they masking behind them will be better. Those frames were rushed through paint to get to the show. It's also worth pointing out that all these shots of that bit are macro level. They're all of 8mm across in real life.

Dave from BM (valid a point as it is because he did rub them) is literally the only person out of probably 30 different people who've ridden the bike to catch his calves.

The clearance on the linkage is too tight on that pic because the Marzocchi shock came up much too long, and I didn't have any spare shocks for the day. The Marzocchi guys are having a look at it. None of the Fox or BOS shocks cause this because they're all nominal length and therefore a few mm shorter than the shock that happened to be on that bike. BM Dave picked up on it, but didn't comment because he was waiting for me to talk to the relevant people and figure it all out and I let him know my findings yesterday.

The seat tube braces are on the medium and large. Small didn't get one because I couldn't drop the top tube any further without the bottle not fitting with the shock (there's bottle bosses on the underside of the top tube. Yes they're upside down. Yes they work fine).

As for whether you like the look of it, well, there's plenty of bikes out there that look different and most of them look the same as eachother. I'm sure you'll see something else you like.

Mike_D - Member
shame the top tube sticks out the back of the seat tube
I like that bit.

Like the old Saracens, they were lovely frames, not the best example but it has the sticky out bit.

[img] [/img]

not the best example

au contraire.... what a visual feast.

(there's bottle bosses on the underside of the top tube. Yes they're upside down. Yes they work fine).

I think it looks great, I agree about the rude comments, there is constructive criticism and then there's stw opinion 🙄

The clearance on the linkage is too tight on that pic because the Marzocchi shock came up much too long, and I didn't have any spare shocks for the day. The Marzocchi guys are having a look at it. None of the Fox or BOS shocks cause this because they're all nominal length and therefore a few mm shorter than the shock that happened to be on that bike. BM Dave picked up on it, but didn't comment because he was waiting for me to talk to the relevant people and figure it all out and I let him know my findings yesterday.

Cool! main things is that you are aware and sorting it. best get these right before launch.

Good luck

ps the bigs ones need 29er wheels then i'm tempted.

Strikes me as a bike designed by someone who has really, really thought about it.
I like the pierced TT, I like the front detail of chainstays into shock, I like the 'pinch bolt' rear end attachment, I like that he has thought about materials from scratch rather than followed the herd.
I want a ride of this beast, but mebbe shorter travel is bestest for me, being a mince-core rider 🙂
I also think that while it is ok to comment at criticise, some people just are rude on here.

I'm slightly with Brant on this in as much as, yes, it might not be to some people's tastes but there's no real need to be rude about it. Particularly not given that it's likely that the chap responsible will a) read it and b) as seen above respond helpfully and with a deal more grace.

I just get bothered by people who are so ready to casually denigrate other's hard work in the strongest possible terms and then if called on it throw up the weak defence of "It's only an opinion". It's not the opinion I have issue with, it's the manner of expression; there's a world of difference between "I do not like that" and "Single ugliest x ever".

Ugly as a bag full of arseholes that.

It's funny, there's been quite a Cotic love-in on stw over the last couple of weeks, which is gratifying to see. A bit like that other love-in that was going on for a while. For those inbred bikes.

Best not start a thread about any of Brant's bikes now. Someone might post an "opinion"

So as well as no reviews of any of his bikes we'll also have no opinions either. 🙂

I think it looks terrific, esp in Orange. It will look more gate like in larger sizes as people are used to big fat alloy tubes and monocoques which fill in the space between.

Orange bikes are loved and they look like filing cabinets* and this is minimalist and svelte by comparison.

*and I own an Alpine 160. Now I want a Rocket...

Best not start a thread about any of Brant's bikes now. Someone might post an "opinion"

Correct me if I'm wrong but wasn't a review of the Planet X Dirty Harry pulled from WMTB magazine recently for one reason or another? Going on current (seemingly a return to the good old Brant of pre-CRC/Hotlines) form I'd not be surprised if Brant managed to get wind of what they were about to write, then threatened them with a horses head or two in their beds if it went to press!

Freedom of speech and all that eh... 😉

Anyway... Good to see Cy's response above. I left some opinions on the frame on one of the facebook pics he posted, on the whole I really like it. It's kind of a "form follows function" approach, and the level of detail gone to solve some problems (integration of the seatstay pivot with rear brake mounting hole being one) is admirable. The bike still looks pretty good, the geometry looks spot on on paper, the proof will be in the pudding in riding it for most people.

Like most other people who have expressed opinions though, I'm still not so keen on the extended Top Tube, or the seat tube brace on the medium and large models. But accept the latter is kind of necessary to get the required standover on the larger bikes yet still support the seat tube. And besides, if you bought one, you'd not see either foible whilst you were riding the bike anyway.

I really want one, shame I've got no money!

I think the bolts on the linkage are a bit ugly, but it's obviously functional-ugly, which is fine. I'd thought they'd be replaced with countersunk things by the production model but you know what, Cy knows more about making bikes than I do. Do like the top tube/seatpost
interface...

It's obviously generating a lot of interest, I guess the microscopic analysis and criticism is a compliment. Hemlock is not a pretty bike at all but it's the best full suss I've ridden, so if this can be as good as that and yet not look like a swingbridge, that's got to be good.

Functional-ugly is fine, but not when they're scraping yer legs. Only had that one one other bike before - a Giant Glory I rented in Morsine, had welts on my calves by the time I gave it back. Mind you, that bike had a linkage on it that was the size and shape of a swingbridge, so no great surprise.

As for whether you like the look of it, well, there's plenty of bikes out there that look different and most of them look the same as eachother. I'm sure you'll see something else you like.

It seems to me that this bike, like all the Cotics, has been designed with function as the primary aim and appearance a poor second. IMO this is the right way to do things.

I'd rather buy a bike that looked like a gate and rode like a dream rather than the other way round.

I'd not be surprised if Brant managed to get wind of what they were about to write

I really like the Rocket. Some very nice details.

Pics of your wife, kids and cock please, big man.

I think the rocket looks awesome , very clean lines and very cotic which is a good thing . when I get the money I will buy one ! it looks like a cotic soul with suspension ...well done cy !

Wrecker, +many.

And, fwiw, this bike is very much on my "what next?" List. I'll be watching with interest.

I like the look of it, and would buy one tomorrow if I was rich. But I don't know that I can justify > 1 bikes. [well I just justify it to myself, but that's not the issue ;)]

Im definitely in the 'loving the looks' group, and fwiw ALL bikes in medium and orange will look better than the same bike in black and Large 🙂

I agree people can get a bit rude on ST but that's what this place 'is' more and more - see the comments on the new POWA mudguard ; [url= http://singletrackworld.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/04/we-know-who-is-to-blame-for-the-weather/ ]59 pounds[/url] for another example, its a shame really.

Since when is having an opinion rude?

its the way it's delivered that counts

CF - you can use flowery descriptive languauge when you are fawning over something but criticism should be terse and to the point. "[i]I don't like it[/i]" is as harsh as you are allowed.

CaptainFlashheart - Member
Since when is having an opinion rude?

WHen its the wrong one it would appear 😉

Ah, I see! 🙂

So, how does one decide what the right opinion is?

Oh, I'm just sooooo confused.

🙂

Great to see a new bike from a British company, thanks to Cy and Brant for their informed commentary. All I am really qualified to say is I like the Orange best and I look forward to hearing more about them as they get into owners hands.

I think its great that Cy can pop up on here and explain his thinking and this makes me even happier to put money in his pocket rather than Specialized etc. I like the look of the smaller bike but those side bolts do look a bit like they could benefit from another look.

Brant: Everyone knows what its like on here and i think the fact people can freely express their opinions is great, even if they are over the top or crass. The world would be pretty cr@p if all everyone said on here was polite, balanced and informative - a very dull utopia.

I was first to say I didn't like the look of the frame, however if I was in the market for a new frame and the cotic was fantastic I would buy it regardless.

I don't think anyone's been rude either

It's not styled, it's engineered.

I like anything that is how it is because it works best that way, no other reason. I'm suspicious of things that are over-styled. Simplest way to achieve what you want is usually the best, taking things away is better than adding more stuff on, etc.

The Rocket looks ace imo. The seat-top tube junction looks totally sensible and frees up top tube width too, it's great.

If you want perfect flowy lines there's plenty of hydroformed stuff already out there.

Cannot wait to ride the Rocket. Booked my Demo with Stu at the Dales Bike centre on the 21st April. Orange looks good black equally so. I wonder what it would look like in Solaris Green???? Looks good Cy.

Since when is having an opinion rude?

Thank you

I said in my opinion I think it looks hideous and I'm sorry for upsetting people but looks do matter on a bike and I dont like the look of it.

Just out interest I do own a Soul

The orange one looks brilliant. If it wasnt for the fact that its way out of my price range and way too similar (intended use) to the bike I already have, I'd be seriously considering one.

When I get bored of my ST4, I'll be testing one of those a) because Cy knows how to make great bikes b) because I've met him a couple of times and he's a top fella and incredibly passionate about what he does and c) because it'll be ace.

Personally I like the look of it. But even if I didn't I'd still seriously consider it because I know that Cy is a great bike designer with a OCD attention to detail. Still I love my Carbon 456 and frankly that's not a looker. Who cares 😉

It's not easy designing cutting edge products in a small company and if you focus on engineering the product as well as possible, whilst always bearing in mind the aesthetic but never letting form dominate to the detriment of function, you will come up for criticism. However you'll also develop a legitimate brand that people will trust and as you're never going to claim 100% market share then the criticism doesn't really matter. Easy to type that but I still get defensive about my own products despite them being engineered to the nth degree and every detail being considered. Sometimes the best solution isn't as pretty as you'd like but wouldn't you rather have that than a compromised but more attractive one?

Personally I think the Rocket looks awesome and I'd love an orange medium one to go with my Soul if I could justify it! If I lived somewhere with gnarlier local trails I'd be sorely tempted but round here my Soul is sooo damned fast when I'm on it (not as in me being on it, me being on it when I'm ON IT. You dig me?)

It looks great as seen at Bespoked the other weekend, show me a large (26" wheeled frame) that doesn't look at bit 'gawky' propotion wise.
Believe me I know as have to ride them at 6'3".
If you want a 'right' looking gate sized frame you need a 29er IMO
😉

I too think that the small frame looks a thing of joy and beauty and the large looks like a bit of a gate. I believe that I *may* have mentioned this in a passing email to Cy...

However I will reserve judgement on the matter until I see joe@cycle worlds medium in orange in the flesh.

I'm really really hoping that it's a minger as I'm totally skint having just stumped up for my Solaris...

And brant, I hear what you are saying I'm glad you feel that strongly to say it. Sadly such passion is all too missing from our lives.

And if the rocket actually rides as well as its *hyped* then wgaf what it looks likes really.

I've only seen/ridden a large Rocket, and it didn't look/feel like a gate to me. Small bikes are more "rad" though, as everyone knows, so I'm looking forward to seeing a small one built up "in the metal".

More Rocket photos on Flickr (including some snaps of Cy's large prototype out in the real world, not sat in front of some boxes):
http://www.flickr.com/photos/coticltd/sets/72157629727121781/with/6837550101/

It's not easy designing cutting edge products in a small company and if you focus on engineering the product as well as possible, whilst always bearing in mind the aesthetic but never letting form dominate to the detriment of function, you will come up for criticism. However you'll also develop a legitimate brand that people will trust and as you're never going to claim 100% market share then the criticism doesn't really matter.

THIS

I own a Maverick, one of what many people consider one of the ugliest full suspension bikes out there, but it was designed by a guy with a similar Principle to this and that of Cy's. The fact Paul Turner too is a great engineer with a passion for riding bikes, and was at the time pretty much a one man band after he'd sold Rockshox, and you can draw some similarities. The fact the looks are challenging to most people (I actually quite like the way it looks, but what do I know!) is of no concern to me whatsoever. For a 5" travel XC bike, it's still a total swiss army knife of a bike, designed not to excel in one particular area but just be bloody good all round. People have raced them competitively in Enduro DH's, and also top level XC.

And just like Cy, Maverick has a proper hardcore group of followers (check out the MTBR forums if you don't believe me) who can't wait to see what the next chapter is in their history!

Long live guys like Cy and Paul Turner, pushing the engineering boundaries rather than the marketing ones, unafraid to use a design that's unconventional or use a different material to the norm, in pursuit of perfection. There is always a ready market for these designs, it's just never going to be as large as the more conventional market of course.