[Closed] That Deviate, eh...

That looks like a Wolftooth carrier to me.

Bike looks great, would love a go. Desperate for a pinion/gearbox bike, my concern is I am a serial bike changer, much as I hate that fact, and adding a gearbox puts another cost layer on that.

Also I wonder how much gearbox development will be stymied by e-bikes, unless we're going to see the likes of shimano integrate a gearbox into the motor system. If not then r&d will surely continue to go into derailleur systems as they will function with a motor and without.

Also I wonder how much gearbox development will be stymied by e-bikes, unless we're going to see the likes of shimano integrate a gearbox into the motor system.

I did some work with Pinion ahead of their original launch and an integrated Pinion motor/gearbox was definitely on their roadmap.

I could see that working well. Add electronic shifting and the power could be cut for gear changes like a quick shifter on a motorcycle. Not really what I'm after though as I don't want an ebike.

Well I'm definitely sold on the concept I think the disadvantage of the additional weight of the gearbox will easily be counteracted by the fact of its positioning in the frame and the benefits of the lower unsprung weight of the rear suspension - the net benefit will be noticeable I think - much more noticeable than moving between different pivot/linkage systems on conventional bikes.

The biggest issue for me is I'd have to buy a complete bike as I'm currently on a 29er so not feasible to buy a frame only and transfer kit over...which means I'm into the £6k territory for a bike!!!! Up until recently my max budget for a car was only £5k so that is a huge leap for me. Do people actually spend that much on bikes? I know that is their RRP but people actually spend that much?? I guess if I am going to spend that much on a bike I'd be looking for a significant differentiator in performance and technology and the Pinion gearbox will probably deliver that.

I'll be looking for a test ride come February for sure.

I've never ridden a gearbox bike but having had a Rohloff for over 10 years I'll take having to back off slightly when changing gear if that gives me gear changes when stationary. As for the twist shifter I didn't really like it it to start with but now I'd be just as happy with it as trigger shifters.

I know that is their RRP but people actually spend that much??

Enough do, some even spend nearly €10,000 on a Santa Cruz

I'll take having to back off slightly when changing gear if that gives me gear changes when stationary

Downshifts into corners is an even better idea than changing when stationary for me

so that is a huge leap for me. Do people actually spend that much on bikes? I know that is their RRP but people actually spend that much??

Yep, that’s about average for me.

Edit: ha, just checked, exactly the average, almost to the penny, for the rrp of this compared to the rrps of my current squadron (I know, I know 😉 )

Hi Guys,
Just to throw our hat into the ring here and address a couple of points/questions:

- Carbon: For low volume production the cost of tooling and producing carbon fibre is very comparable with alu. So it made sense. As Sanny says the carbon finish is bomb proof - we've thrashed them and they still look new! If there is demand we'll consider an Alu model down the line.

- Pricing: We've done our best to be competitive with the pricing. As is pointed out you get an entire drivetrain with a frame only option. We think our customers can see through a spec that reduces cost with low end components that riders don't notice on the shop floor - there are no flimsy components on our builds - look at the Cane Creek 110 headset (110 year warranty and go for >£100) or Fabric Pro Team saddle for example (>£120)...

- Gearbox: You do not need to back off completely to change gear. Just reduce the torque a little and it changes fine - in the same way you would with a rear mech. It is only gripshift just now - but it works well when paired to the gearbox and the ability to shift through the entire gear range without while stationary (and without putting in some pedal strokes).

- Cane Creek: The DBAir IL did have some problems at first - we were aware of this, but we've tested our units (both IL and CS) thoroughly over the last 7 months. If they didn't perform/last we would have ditched them and spec'ed something else. In that time each bike has descended more than 2 hundred thousand vertical metres in the Alps (4 months of solid riding) and ridden plenty of wet miles in Scotland. So far I've not touched any of our Cane Creek rear shocks at all. Additionally, we'll sell you a bike frame only without a shock or we can arrange a Fox rear shock (metric sizes are hard to come by but we should have access to them soon). We can also arrange Fox forks, but again we are impressed with the Cane Creek Helm and certainly encourage anyone interested to try the bike with the Cane Creek suspension - we've found it works very well!

- Warranty: The gearbox has it's own warranty through Pinion of 5 years. We warranty our frames for 2 years.

- That picture: Caused by a loose bolt on the spider.

Any questions or if you want to demo it - give me a shout on info@deviatecycles.com.

Cheers,
Ben
deviatecycles.com

That picture: Caused by a loose bolt on the spider.

damn, I was hoping for a 'Sanny giving it large' story.

Only just bought a bloody Hightower and I'm considering a demo of a gearbox bike in a few years time 🙂

Ben, YGM

damn, I was hoping for a 'Sanny giving it large' story.

Well it did survive Mugdock 🙂

Only 2 year warrenty on a frame of that complexity / value?

I would have hoped for more especially as the gearbox is 5 years.

I do however love the overall theme of the bike, high pivot and gearbox etc.

What happened there was that I didn't check the bolts on the rear hub spider. One came loose and I managed to **** it! Entirely user error on my part. 😆

Trust me to break the rear ring! It is a Hope one that isn't spec'd on the production version. It is an easy and cheap fix too - a lot cheaper than an Eagle rear mech!

It's not the first ring I have broken nor is it likely to be the last. I've folded a granny ring before after only a handful of rides. Funnily enough, I forgot to check the bolts then too. I managed to chew a gouge out of a thick thin chainring on a one by set up too.

I really am a clumsy ****er. You would think I would learn a lesson but clearly not!

Oh and I would definitely still buy one. It would be disingenuous of me to criticise the bike for something that was entirely my fault. 😉

Sanny the destroyer of rings

Sanny the destroyer of rings

😯 niche side hobby?

On reflection, my self created moniker could be read several ways!

Well it is Friday.....

i think it's great we're starting to see more and more pinion full suspension bikes, especially since people are taking advantage of the high pivot.

Personally I'm going to wait for the Sick Bicycles full suspension to come out, mainly because it's basically a BMW Racelink which was my dream bike when I was younger.

- Carbon: For low volume production the cost of tooling and producing carbon fibre is very comparable with alu. So it made sense. As Sanny says the carbon finish is bomb proof - we've thrashed them and they still look new! If there is demand we'll consider an Alu model down the line.

I think carbon fibre is a great material but I'm worried about some of the conditions the bikes are made in and also the fact it can't really be recycled (even though it sounds like your aim is to make it bombproof).

Have you had a chance to investigate the conditions in the factory where the bikes are manufactured?

he fact it can't really be recycled

How many bikes have you recycled to date? Actually recycled, not sold on for buttons/given to charity. How many in the ‘top end of the market’ price range?

You know that carbon "sea fill" stuff that Pole kicked off about. What is the difference between that and creating a new artificial reef/ habitat stuff? I mean nobody gives the surfers crap for making their fake reefs with bags of stuff. Is carbon toxic in the water?

How many bikes have you recycled to date? Actually recycled, not sold on for buttons/given to charity. How many in the ‘top end of the market’ price range?

Personally, just one steel frame. The rest of my bikes are still in my garage.

There's also Max Commencal who wouldn't make carbon frames after seeing the conditions in one of the factories.

Look, I don't want to get into a big debate about carbon fibre with other people who aren't directly involved in its manufacture. We have two bicycle manufacturer posting on this thread so it gives us a chance to hear what they have to say about working with carbon fibre. This is relevant considering the fact that at least two manufacturers refuse to use it.

Both of them tiny boutique brands. So well done to them for having a viewpoint and acting on it. It does make a difference and whilst the working conditions of the factory guys is very important I would like to discover more about the environmental impact of carbon frame sea fill.

I think I'm the third person on the thread to have ridden the Deviate bike. One of our riding group rides with Ben and Chris in the Alps and so the bike came out on our normal grotty hilly muddy ride near Stirling in Scotland.

I had a wee ride around and it felt surprisingly nippy for its size and weight - then again, I ride a five29 and a radon slide carbon 160 normally. Gripshift was the "other way" and not really a problem. Gears are very smooth and I'm pretty sure you can change them while stationary. The chain doesn't go backwards if you back pedal (!). It *is* different suspension. feels unlike my other bikes. It was totally covered in mud when I rode it and it was working totally fine all evening.

Really worth getting a proper ride on it; it is a new class of bike - it is different although Sanny did a much better reviewin his article, I thought I'd pitch in.

I hope it's coming out tonight, it's snowing here!

I so want to try a gearbox bike. It may be my last high end bike purchase.

There's also Max Commencal who wouldn't make carbon frames after seeing the conditions in one of the factories

he's not running round stark bollock naked either ....would he stop wearing clothes if he saw those working conditions , would he **** ,

So do we tell Hope to get in the sea... errrr NOT get in the sea. I'm confused. Pole went gung-ho on the environmental issues, others on the factory conditions. Maybe it's time for an editorial feature in the Magazine I hear is linked to this website.

So that's three whataboutery responses so far. Anymore?

Like I said, I'm a fan of carbon fibre from an engineering viewpoint but I have some concerns about how it's manufactured and it's full life cycle.

There's a manufacturer here on the thread so I'm taking the opportunity to hear his take on the subject, I'm not having a go at carbon fibre.

Just like Orange Vs Hope there are two different takes on what a factory should look like.

There are Chinese factories where its all good conditions and high quality control so there is little to no waste and there are places that have old men in mucky overalls correcting out of shape frames with a big hammer.

I don’t think you can say carbon manufacturing is is bad, just some carbon manufacturing is bad just like some anything is bad.

I've never had a Rohloff or Pinion fail internally

It was a few years ago fo'shure but a user on this site repeatedly crossed rivers with his (often submerging the whole hub), and eventually it broke, Rohloff needed it back.They suggested to him that continually riding through rivers (he rode in the lakes, natch) was "extreme" and admitted that the hub wasn't sealed well enough to deal with repeated dunking. Alfine isn't designed with mtb in mind so that gets a free pass, and the issue with pinion is of course 1. not serviceable (like the rohloff) and 2. you've bought a bike that can't use any other type of drivetrain. Whether that's a problem is a buyer debate I guess.

Don't get me wrong I'm glad these bikes exist, for the folk who want a bike like this, this is a great looking bike, and I hope it sells well, and gives enormous pleasure to those who ride them.

There's a magazine?

Pinion is not serviceable in the same way as your car gearbox isn't. It's designed not to be serviceable. Nothing to service. I can imagine that if you wanted to run a conventional drivetrain on a pinion bike frame then you could make an insert that bolts into the frame pinion bracket with a conventional BB shell so you could fit a conventional drivetrain. Probably not available now, but if Pinion bikes were to become commonplace then i'm sure someone would make one.

A Pinion single speed. Top niche-ing.

Pinion is serviceable - you change the oil, once a year.....
People need to stop thinking like it's a regular transmission.
It's not however home repairable - and if it were the general public would likely do more damage.
There may well be many people on here willing and able to take a gearbox apart, but I'm certainly not one of them.

Imo this is one of the appeals of a pinion system over a regular drivetrains. Just an oil change every now and again and 'if' it goes wrong send it back. The benefits far out weigh the negatives.

honourablegeorge - Member 
A Pinion single speed. Top niche-ing.

Maybe not, it's already available

[url= http://olsenbicycles.com/shop/frame-only ]http://olsenbicycles.com/shop/frame-only[/url]

Love that Olsen.

So my replacement ring arrived. It is the production model and a far nicer arrangement than the carrier and ring approach. One ring. Lots of metal. No bolts to loosen off. I am a happy bunny!

As niche as the Deviate is, it is no match for the electric recumbent trike I was testing in the snow today. Now THAT is niche. An HP scorpion FS. It is practically designed for drifting.

From an engineering perspective, the Deviate is a thing of beauty...

I've always been a sucker for a high single pivot with an idler and am well impressed by their approach to the tensioner; though systems such as the Zerode are unlikely to come a cropper in the real world, the Deviate is a cut above.

That said, I'd be tempted to slacken the head angle a bit and stealth the graphics, but all in all, seems to be a top job and I wish them the best of luck.

The frame is £3399 which includes the Pinion gearbox and DB inline shock, so actually not that expensive considering a Santa Crux Nomad frame is only £100 less with a lower spec shock
sure, but... SC are a well established brand with a pretty good dealer network, excellent back-up and warranty, great reviews, and a strong reputation.

It's wiered how the issues surrounding washing machines, tumble driers, Toyota, VW etc make headline news but crap bikes and components don't???????

Please, will someone tell where my thinking is going wrong...

Gearbox bikes are becoming more popular, but why is this seen as a new thing? Surely Nexus, Alfine, Rohloff etc are doing the same job? Why not work one of these into a frame design to get the desired effect.

Obviously, I must be missing the point somewhere along the way.

Hub hears put a lot of weight into the rear wheel, which is bad for balance on hard tails off road, and terrible for full sussers. A centralised gearbox is [i]miles[/i] better, particularly for FS as the year wheel can move up and down more freely, as there is less weight at the wheel.

GT tried your idea, look up the IT1, I had one, it was pretty far from ideal (weight wasn’t as low as it could be with a GB, overly complex drive system) zerode tried it too with their dh bike, more successfully. The gearbox is just a more suitable, refined design

seadog101 - Member
Please, will someone tell where my thinking is going wrong...

Gearbox bikes are becoming more popular, but why is this seen as a new thing? Surely Nexus, Alfine, Rohloff etc are doing the same job? Why not work one of these into a frame design to get the desired effect.

Obviously, I must be missing the point somewhere along the way.

You'd be using a hub to do the wrong job and therefore building unnecessary weight into the system because there'd be loads of redundant bits or they'd be sized or configured incorrectly for the job they were being asked to do.

iirc GT tried fitting an alfine in a frame and it wasn't well received though that could be more about the dodgy geometry and the I-drive than the installation. I believe Zerode had more success with theirs and Lahar was a bit of a cult thing something like 10 years ago.

Looking again at the Lahar the fundamentals are eerily familiar.

Carbon
High Pivot
Gearbox

[img] [/img]

So it has been done but I think it's perceived as a bodge and therefore hasn't really caught on.

Well, I’ve had a go...

Utterly grim conditions, effectively riding down a rocky river, bike performed beautifully, equally good on small stuttery stuff as bigger hits, felt very stable. Despite the supposedly ‘too long seat tube’ it certainly doesn’t feel it, this is very much a bike you sit ‘in’, rather than ‘on’

I wouldn’t say climbing was a strong suit, but that’s not what this bike is all about, the pedals go round, the bike moves up hill.

Order will be going in imminently. 😁