[Closed] Steel full sussers, why?

Cotic rocket was the lightest bike on test in a recent magazine group test.

Steel isn't far off alu when done right, and generally looks ace.

And people like it, which is the main thing, really.

I have a steel 142mm FS 29er that is faster than most carbon or AL bikes I have tested. I use the Norco Optic/Sight and RIPMO as fast bikes 'all round' benchmark.

Why not? Looks better than alu or carbon, is a great material that’s easy to work with and has some inherit characteristics that make it a great choice for bike frames. Easy to repair and pretty tough. Yeah there can be a slight weight penalty but, honestly, who gives a shit. Lose the weight somewhere else on the bike, carry less crap or become a roadie 😄

My favourite frames have all been steel. Rigid, HT and FS. Plus skinny steel tubes look sweet

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lightfighter762
Full Member

I have a steel 142mm FS 29er that is faster than most carbon or AL bikes I have tested. I use the Norco Optic/Sight and RIPMO as fast bikes ‘all round’ benchmark.

So why don’t they make Olympic, or even national lever bikes out of steel for competitions?

Bit of an old article now but:-
https://www.cotic.co.uk/geek/page/SteelFullSuspension

On my second steel full sus. Its ace - juts like the first one was. And doesn't have a down tube covered in dinks from rock strikes like most of my ally bikes had.

So why don’t they make Olympic, or even national lever bikes out of steel for competitions?

Something tells me Graeme Obree might be a good person to ask about that...

because they make a great bike that looks the business.

i’ve not thought mountain bikes have looked good since the introduction of suspension forks. rear suspension, aluminum and sculpted carbon hasn't helped. for me, the new wave of steel suspension bikes are the best looking in a long while.

Something tells me Graeme Obree might be a good person to ask about that…

funny.

Not sure about the looks comment - it only looks the way it does as you cant manipulate it like alloy / carbon. And if you could you would as its stronger with better strength to weight ratio.

You could make an alloy or carbon bike look like a steel but you wouldn't do that as it would be weaker.

I own a Rocket as it was the best bike that I demo'd at the time. I tried a few alloy bikes and two carbon bikes too and the Rocket just felt stable, composed and confidence-inspiring. It also wasn't the heaviest bike I tested, that actually went to a carbon one.

Plus it looks really good, still gets favourable comments even though it's 3 years old and not kept as a garage queen. I still remember when it was a few weeks old I went to the FOD for a ride and stumbled upon the YT Demo Day they ran to replace the one where all their bikes were stolen. Parked it at the cafe and loads of people asked me about it. So many in fact that one of the YT lads came and suggested I go ride it, turns out it was taking people's focus away from their carbon bikes. Bumped into someone on a BTR hardtail too who was also struggling to eat in peace.

Cotic rocket was the lightest bike on test in a recent magazine group test.

Mine weighs 35lbs as I built it tough but could easily get that down to 32-33lbs without too much issue.

Be cool if someone could make a carbon frame, and all it’s weird shapes, look like it was made of steel.

😎

So why don’t they make Olympic, or even national lever bikes out of steel for competitions?

Most steel full sus bikes are made by small companies. A lot of them in the UK. Don’t think they have the funds to be sponsoring riders. Seems like an odd question too to be honest. The vast majority of people who buy mountain bikes aren’t Olympic athletes or pro riders. They’re normal folk who like riding bikes. Some of them like steel for looks, performance, strength etc.

So why don’t they make Olympic, or even national lever bikes out of steel for competitions?

Because the companies that sponsor riders don't make steel bikes because there's no demand for them because the perception is that they aren't good because no top level riders use bikes made of steel because there's no demand for them because the perception is that...

The Cotics are technically 50/50 aren't they?

Steel front end by Five Land Bikes made in the UK and an aluminium rear made in Taiwan.

Swingarm is aluminium, as are fittings like the shock mount, droplinks etc. Front triangle and seat stays are steel.

So why don’t they make Olympic, or even national lever bikes out of steel for competitions?

Here's one winning a gold medal:

Can’t see the rear, or front suspension 😋

Can’t see the rear, or front suspension

It’s attached to the riders shoulders and arse.

tomhoward
Full Member
Can’t see the rear, or front suspension

It’s attached to the riders shoulders and arse.

So basically nothing to do with steel full sussers then

Not sure about the looks comment – it only looks the way it does as you cant manipulate it like alloy / carbon. And if you could you would as its stronger with better strength to weight ratio.

but then it wouldn’t have lovely straight tubes

Be cool if someone could make a carbon frame, and all it’s weird shapes, look like it was made of steel.

but the tubes would be weird shapes and as a result, not cool.

some folk don’t get it!

Why do we make so many bikes out of aluminium alloys when they’re so much weaker and so much less stiff than iron alloys?

Beware oversimplifications, they’re usually wrong.

but the tubes would be weird shapes and as a result, not cool.

We’ll see.

The Cotics are technically 50/50 aren’t they?

not by weight. that’s a humorous comment by the way, not trolling. all my bikes are steel apart from the one attached to a trainer, but that isnt really a bicycle as it only has one wheel. i only say that as i don’t want to admit to having an aluminum bike.

Just out of interest, which group test has the Cotic as the lightest option?

Just out of interest, which group test has the Cotic as the lightest option?

And was it the lightest bike, or lightest frame?

I bought mine because I needed a frame and the rockets were on offer and 0% finance. All I know is that bar seat angle it's the same geometry as the trek it replaced, but lots more fun. Probably because the suspension design suits my preference more, and nothing to do with it being steel.

And was it the lightest bike, or lightest frame?

It's always interesting when magazines do big grouptests, the aluminium bikes are generally lighter £/lb as the cost of making a carbon frame doesn't make sense relative to the weight saved. So an aluminium frame with better kit is lighter.

Probably less of a factor in boutique steel frame, but then maybe not post Brexit now that Cotic Rockets almost look like a normal price and it's harder to import the cheapest direct sales brands like Canyon.

Why are people obsessed with weight? Unless you’re racing it really doesn’t make that much difference to how a bike rides. The only bike I’ve owned where the weight had any real impact was a Transition Trans AM and most of that was down to the crap wheels and cheap fork.

My current bike is a Stooge Dirtbomb. Never weighed it because that would just be ****ing weird in my eyes. Feels reasonably heavy when I lift it in and out of the shed. Yet I can ride it all day on all types of terrain and not get tired or notice the weight. Has nice wheels and light(ish) tyres for plus.

Steel bikes are repairable.

Steel bikes are repairable.

So is carbon. And aluminium. And titanium. With varying levels of difficulty.

Steel is easily repairable and it’s easy to find someone who can do it pretty much anywhere. I’m biased but steel bikes are just better 😀 look better and make the best noise when you flick them or stones and rocks hit them. Ting!

I’ve tried other materials and it’s just not the same. Except Ti because money

Be cool if someone could make a carbon frame, and all it’s weird shapes, look like it was made of steel.

😎

Not just skinny tubes, but lugged too.

Atherton?

Colnago?

BMC?

Look (retro only)

Must be more I'm forgetting.

TBH I don't know why the average mtber wants carbon fibre, lots of reasons why it's problematic for the average rider in UK conditions

I picked up a rocketmax first gen off eBay, it fits me, feels bombproof, and I'm not worried about wear and tear on the frame riding it in UK conditions

As for the frame weight difference, it's 5% max of total build weight of a similar bike

As someone that makes the odd steel frame I should be defending this... But to be honest other materials are often better for full sus if bothered about weight (which I am to a certain extent).

I've only previously felt the need to make one steel full sus, but that was for a very specific application (long wheelbase kiddy seat 20" back wheel low c of g dad special). Steel and recycling some old frames let me make that very quickly (essential because kids grow fast).

Steel is great for recyclability and reuse - I'm currently making a new work bike using a recycled rear triangle from my last-but-one mtb made 10 yrs ago. A different fork and 3 new tubes gives me a completely different bike for very little work.

But today reading the latest singletrack I did get a full sus idea - a steel copy of the Trek Supercaliber with a "non-CEN" front triangle (I'm 64kg so probably safe) could be awesome and barely heavier than a hardtail. Would be like the twang, compliance and comfort amplified in a really good way. And shock loads almost axial along the top tube would be structurally appropriate for skinny steel tubes.

lots of reasons why it’s problematic for the average rider in UK conditions

Which ones are you thinking about? I have two carbon framed bikes, full susser and road, and they have been thoroughly unproblematical in the frame department. Only frame I have broken was steel (OK that was a design fault). But I also have three steel hardtail frames and love them also. I have/had ali frames and they are/were ace as well. I must be lucky (apart from the DMR Switchback), I don't have frame problems.

Haven't had Ti, I would be a bit cautious about getting a Ti frame as many of the Ti frames I know broke.

Carbon FS MTB with non swoopy tubes you say.…..

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I too like the look of steel bikes though.

Edit: Oops beaten to it by an hour.....

Meh! Looks like carbon still. Just with those knuckles that join market stalls and scaffolding pipes together thrown in. Lines aren’t clean like with a nice steel bike

Why would you want to buy a carbon framed bike made on the other side of the world by relatively unskilled workers working for a poor wage, paid by companies owned by Vc funds?
I mean, if you have enough disposable income to buy a nice bike for riding around muddy tracks and fields why not support a U.K. or maybe European company who make stuff more locally.

It really is up to you.

Have you ridden any OP?

I've had a good go on a few and have ridden many different aluminium and carbon FS bikes as well.

I don't own a steel FS and I wouldn't say they were necessarily better, but they can have a nice ride feel which other materials don't.

And they can look amazing obvs.

tomhoward
Full Member
Steel bikes are repairable.

So is carbon. And aluminium. And titanium. With varying levels of difficulty

Ok I should have said steel bikes are easily and cheaply repairable. I don't think you'll find anyone to replace the top tube on your hydroformed Alu bike.

Not full sus but entire front triangle replaced in the shed at home.

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Why would you want to buy a carbon framed bike made on the other side of the world by relatively unskilled workers working for a poor wage, paid by companies owned by Vc funds?
I mean, if you have enough disposable income to buy a nice bike for riding around muddy tracks and fields why not support a U.K. or maybe European company who make stuff more locally.

I think you can probably answer that yourself.

Not full sus but entire front triangle replaced in the shed at home.

I reckon I could replace the front triangle of a FS without much bother, regardless of material 😉

Carbon repair doesn’t seem impossible either, plenty of places do it.

My cotic frame and shock weighs almost exactly the same as the on one codeine (all aluminium) that it replaced.

My "new" Gen 1 Flaremax is within a knats chuff the same weight as the aluminium Cannondale it replaced.

And a million times nicer to ride even with the shock in desperate need of a service.