[Closed] Steel 29er HT's - Solaris, Sherpa, what else to consider?

What size you looking at?

ive a large Sherpa that I either build back up (or shift on...).

i would however recommend the SolarisMAX (having both incarnations currently in use)

If you've got money

http://trillioncycles.com/shug/

Parkwood isn't steel

Production Privee Shan GT?

Solaris MAX mk1 for tyre clearance. Be aware that the new one is much longer (I think the medium has around the same TT length as my mk1 XL).

I've a M/L Chromnag Rootdown frame for sale... if you're interested??

https://singletrackworld.com/forum/topic/chromag-rootdown-29er-frame-m-l-size-340-inc-bb/

DrP

Onza payoffs can be picked up pretty cheap now. The only downside is the 27.2mm seat post makes fitting a dropper difficult.

I'm looking at a medium or large, possibly, effective top tube around 600-630mm.  Current bike is medium  580mm ETT and is just a bit short, even with an 80mm stem. I'm 5'10" and prefer a more forward than up riding position, if that makes sense?

Might consider a Soul also, having ridden the medium and large, they both felt good.  Earlier version though, current one is more long/low/slack than I think I will make use of.

Buy the Chromag - I’m 5’8” on an M/L Surface and can say it’s ace.

Top tube is about 600mm if it’s the older Rootdown.  620 if it’s the BA

I've got a Rootdown BA... great bike but currently struggling with the WTBi29 rims on the bike

I'm 5'10" too - the M/L Rootdown is a perfect fit.. I was toying between the M, and M/L, and the chap from Hotlines (can't remember his name) suggested that I should got for the M/L as I too wanted it to be a wee bit more 'forward...

DrP

Genesis High Latitude another option

I wouldn’t let the Cotic LS geo put you off, you just run a short stem instead. Would be wary of going large though!

Sherpa virtual top tube on a large is 622.5mm, I found it a bit short but then I’m 6’ and it came with a 50mm stem. The original SolarisMAX was longer than the Sherpa and I put a 60mm stem and it’s my all day mile muncher. Equally a 35mm stem on the LS version doesn’t feel that radical (until you point it downwards...)

The Solaris does have a lovely ride IMO, just the right balance of stiffness & comfort.

I'm selling my large mk2 (lovely orange colour) as i save for the newest version, drop me a line if you're interested.

Every time this topic comes up I only have one thing to say:

Pipedream Moxie

I really enjoyed my blue Mk1 Solaris for the two years I ran it, just bounce at both ends was calling. I should get it cleaned up and listed really. Medium if you're interested..

I can heartily recommend the Cotic. Just built a Mk 2 up and loving it. Sherpa seems nice, but not sure where the extra cost goes. I have only heard good things about the Chromag, but I am personally not a fan of the bent top tube.

Great, thanks for all the suggestions.

Genesis High Latitude seems like a good option too.  I have heard that the sizing is on the large side, any Ideas anyone?  Pipedream will be checked out

I should have said, Ideally I'd like to bit-by-bit the bike, start with just a frame, look for some bargain forks/wheels/tyres, then rob bits off the old bike until a spanking deal is spotted on a groupset.

Rolling chassis might be a good start.

Sadly, the general pricing of the Cromags is more than the budget allows... 🙁  and to that point the Stantons seem to be premium value too.  If I can find a frame below £250, cosmetic condition not too important, just mechanically sound.

I know most of the bikes I'm looking at are going to be older models, with standard 135mm QR rear ends.  Does a thru-axle on Steel HT make much difference?  My only thought on that front is wheels, lots avaailable are Thru-axle or boost sizing.

Still some bargains out there on 135mm qr 29er rear wheels. Long term, you'll probably be getting custom wheels built when/if new wheels are required… but then that's no problem really. Just don't get a frame that requires a 1 1/8" straight steerer… that's the killer with "very" old steel framesets.

If it helps, I'd do the Chromag for £300 posted....

DrP

Another thumbs up for the Cotic here. I've had my mk1 Solaris for over 4 years now and had some truly great rides on it.

@seadog: as I understand it the bolt through rear kind of goes hand in hand with boost. If you want to run B+ wheels then older frames will struggle with even 2.8” (proper sized ones that is) for clearance. I can’t say I can detect any actual advantage personally, but I’m not pushing things! If you wanted the capability to run say 3” then you’d probably need a boost chainset too (as I found out, the wrong way, on the Sherpa...)

its a bloody minefield out there, for instance my Sherpa is a 142mm bolt through... (you can get conversion kits for the likes of hope to take hubs either way) but it’s a pain these days for sure.

best make sure you know which road your travelling down from the start 🤪

Bargain wheels you say? Keep an eye on these Halo Vapour 35's - link

I recently bought a Genesis High Latitude in green which I built up over 6 months. Owes me about £500. Frames are ridiculously cheap. Mine was £120 off here and virtually new. Bagged some all black stealth Rebas for £110 again off here.

Someone on here had fitted a 2.8 plus tyre in the back so loads of room. See the 650b+ thread

Not many reviews but it is a lot of fun to ride. Again check the threads on here.

Size wise I needed an xl (20.5")  to get the reach for a 60mm stem but it does limit dropper options as does the 27.2 post . I would say sizing and geometry are not the latest thing but it all works together really well. The 2016 version has updated geometry but weighs a ton. Mine is perfect for longer rides and short fast blasts. Very capable all rounder if not the kudos of Cotic and Stanton

But I would say get a used Sherpa if you can get one at right price though as seem to be highly regarded.

Anyone able to comment on the Stanton Sherpa vs Cotic Solaris? Sherpas being clearly more expensive.  Noticable difference? if so how?

Rolling chassis might be a good start.

I don't mean to be pushy in any way, but I could do you a rolling chassis on the mk2 Solaris, with cheap wheels or really nice ones.

🙂

Anyone able to comment on the Stanton Sherpa vs Cotic Solaris?

err, thought I already had. I have 2 SolarisMAX‘s (and a mk1 Solaris) and a Sherpa that needs cranks and brakes fitted to build it back up (not that I’m in any rush). I’d take the new SM over the Sherpa any day, hands down. For me it’s a much better fitting bike that rides better too.

for mile munching I prefer the old SM over the Sherpa but the Sherpa was more fun/‘playful’. Both in B+ guise.

i can see why the Sherpa is more expensive, the finish is better (as is the headtube badge) and it has that wedge bit for chain/tyre clearance all which will add cost. No doubt, it’s a really nice bike. For ridability I’d still choose the SolarisMAX however...

i am a longstanding Cotic customer and I’ve developed a ‘relationship’ with them over the years. So just to declare an ‘interest’ as it were...

a mk2solaris would be a great option based on your stated wish to build gradually (don’t for get my commission chaka 🤣 ). I think it will take up to 2.8” tyres. Plus it would remove temptation for me to get the missing Solaris for my collection... 😜

@ metalheart here is me rooting for you to complete the collection 👍

I have the high latitude (2015) and it rides great, I don’t get out much on it other than the odd llandegna trip as I work away so struggle for time to make the trip and not much in the way of natural trails I know of round my way. Hence I may be selling it on along with the vagabond to fund a fat bike.  Both immaculate, both small 😉.  It seems a lot of bike for the money and was well received in the press.  I must admit I do have a pang for a Cotic though, lovely looking bikes.

I’ve a mk2 Solaris that I’ve built in chubby mode. 2.8  tyre in the 135mm rear is just about doable for summer months.

I love mine. Munches miles, great climber, is decent in singletrack and I even raced it last week.

Cant really think of any negatives other than the paint around the chainstay is starting to look a bit tatty- but that’s after 2500 miles

I'm slightly confused as to what the Solaris order is, can anyone help?

Mk1

Mk2 - what was the change?

Solaris Max

Solaris Max Longshot

I can't remember if I have the Mk1 or the Mk2. I thought there was a slightly different version of the Mk1 (but not the Mk2). I bought mine when they were only selling S, M and L frames, the Mk1 also came in an XL. My bike is from 2014

My understanding is it started out as quite an XC-ish bike and quite gradually got longer and slacker over the second and third iterations, then they went nuts (in a good way) on the new one.

I'm the opposite to Metalheart and very much in the Stanton camp - my BFe was a bit crap to ride (harsh and dead feeling) and the Slackline that replaced it was a revelation. I really like Stanton's 853 frames - they ride nicer than my Mk II Ti Switchback did. I didn't really like the Solaris that I've ridden, but I think it was probably a tad big (19) and it felt like a farm gate.

@benp1: Only Mk1 and Max LS have a Small, so yours is probably a Mk1.

Mk1 : http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solari s"> https://web.archive.org/web/20140530083133/http://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solaris

Mk2:  https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solaris

Max: https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solarisMA X"> https://web.archive.org/web/20170226121815/https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solarisMAX

Max LS:  https://www.cotic.co.uk/product/solarisMAX

OP - go and buy the Chromag.  You will not be disappointed.

Some light reading/drooling:

https://www.bikemag.com/gear/chromag-rootdown-review-dual-tester/

https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/gear-4/topic/nsmb-2018-hardtail-thread-129839/

https://nsmb.com/forum/forum/gear-4/topic/man-i-want-a-chromag-130417/

I'm 6ft1 and on a Large Mk1 Rootdown.  It's genuinely the most fun bike I have ever ridden.

[img] [/img]

The new Solaris is lovely - test rode it a few weeks ago at Peaslake ...

I’m slightly confused as to what the Solaris order is, can anyone help?

I had a telephone conversation with Cy more or less about this (I think i was whinging about the change so soon after the last time...) he put me right (and me him!).

mk1: original incarnation. Cotics first 29er ‘Soul’.

mk2: increase in rear clearance for chubby tyres (up to 2.8” iirc). Correction for inline post and slacker HA Actually, I’ve just come across a print out for the mk2 and yes, this when it went OFI and also based on 120mm travel, hence the slacker HA (for 51mm offset forks apparently).

mk3/SolarisMAX mk1: according to Cy all that really happened was the new back end for up to 3” B+ and graphics name change... but the sizing adjusted in that large got longer to better space between med & XL. Geo alledgedly same as mk2.

Mk4/SolarisMAX mk2/Longshot geo: the current version - longer, lower, slacker...

i cant guarantee all is 100% but it’s not far off if it isn’t...

when did I turn into a geek, please someone, kill me now... 🤣

helpful guys, thanks a lot. Looks like mine is a Mk1 then

Just to clarify, there was a mk1 with the biggest size as XL, then a mk1 with the biggest size as L then?

(I'm 6'3 and got an L rather than an XL as the Solaris didn't come in a XL back then, only L)

a bit more checking. Thanks to that link up there on the Mk1, the website says "The latest iteration Solaris is now here"

So I suppose that means there is a Mk1.1 and a Mk1.2?

Blimey, trying to digest all this. What have I done!

Pretty sure  @metalheart is in the money. Mk2 is optimised around a 120mm fork and a little longer. The Max gave it a rear that could take more than a skinny trailblazer 2.8 at the back (it was billed as taking 2.8 but truth be known most 2.8’s  will be tight on a mk2. The new Longshot version n is long and slack. I’ve onky ridden the flaremax but I’m a convert.

If only I didn’t love my mk2 quite so much and the wife didn’t “need” a new bathroom.....

@ metalheart here is me rooting for you to complete the collection

he really doesn’t need encouragement

Pretty sure  @metalheart is in the money.

He must be to afford so many nice steel hardtails

😉

The MAX is a better do it all bike than the MAX Longshot (in my opinion obviously). If you like riding up and along as much as down, try to get a MAX.

There's also the Sanderson Town Crier at £300 - 27.2mm post though.  https://clee-cycles.co.uk/P46003/product

If it were my money I think I'd take a look at the Stanton Switch9er 631 as well. Geometry look "interesting".

The MAX is a better do it all bike than the MAX Longshot (in my opinion obviously).

Disagree strongly.

= :87)

BTW, I will have Gen 2 L frame up for sales by the weekend ... I have just bought a FlareMax frame.

To answer the other question on here, I have a 2.8 27.5 on the back.  It fits ... just

Stanton were trying to launch a ‘preloved’ frame service a couple of months ago.

it would be worth contacting them to see if they got it sorted.

So I suppose that means there is a Mk1.1 and a Mk1.2?

I think there was a 1.0 that had a single batch, came in green and orange, then the 1.1 was more of a running change with a slight tweak to the tubeset that meant they could drop the headtube-downtube reinforcement. That one came in green, blue and duckegg I think. Might have been when they introduced the Small as well.

Mk1.0 with extra welded bits. Pretty sure that makes the 1.1 less metal for your money.

https://www.flickr.com/photos/alexleigh/8479240110

For what it's worth I've had a 1.1 for 5 years and until the new longshot one came out the only thing that made me think about changing it was to get stealth dropper routing. Stuck a 2° slackset in it this year and have been rather enjoying it, so that's another option. I would rather like a longshot though.

Also, I think there was an initial prototype with a soul tubeset, that IIRC correctly Cy didn't think was stiff enough, which I would like to have tried. Possibly a stainless one too?

edit: stainless was a thing of beauty.

[url= https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7198/6799959682_240b28de5f.jp g" target="_blank">https://farm8.staticflickr.com/7198/6799959682_240b28de5f.jp g"/> [/img][/url][url= https://flic.kr/p/bmTz7b ]Shiny Bike[/url] by [url= https://www.flickr.com/photos/coticltd/ ]CoticLtd[/url], on Flickr

Details here-  http://www.cotic.co.uk/news/archive2012

Swanny 853, thanks, what you're saying makes sense. Mine is duck egg blue, when they dropped the XL size too

Every now and then I think about changing, but in reality that would mean loads of cost as I'd need new wheels etc, all for not a huge amount of REAL benefit

I'm running it rigid at the moment anyway and quite like the way it's set up. I'm more likely to n-1 my El Mariachi than anything else

I like my Solaris, it's one of the Kermit Frog green ones, no idea which version. I built it up as a winter snotter. I ended up drilling a hole in the ST so I could run a stealth dropper, but i've basically just ridden it, and enjoyed not having to be precious about a FS all winter.

I've robbed it for bits now, and it's hanging up looking sad as a bare frame now. I've probably got 50% of a build so might over time just start putting it back together again. Frustratingly it's the only non boost bike I have so I can't share wheels between it and other bikes.

The new Stanton Swtich9er is giving me bad thoughts though.

Slight curve ball but bear with me ...... A new Chameleon.

I'm a self confessed steel HT Luddite.

I owned for a while a Mk1 Solaris, then went to a Pipedream Skookum then tried a Sherpa.

The Skookum was and still is the most "lively" in steel feeling - lovely frame but very much of its time ..... 2013?

I've had my XL Chameleon built for a while now. 29" wheels and 130mm fork. Of all my modern bikes Inthink it looks just right......for an XL frame 😁 ( it looks the most like what you see in the magazines .... Long(ish), 50mm stem, dropper and not at all gate like!)

The ride is very steel like. On a blind test I would be convinced it was. It's stiff but not the least bit uncomfortable.

All that said I bought it just before the new Solaris was announced ...... If it were now I think it would have been a harder decision but the Chameleon is a lighter frame if that's a consideration.

The new Stanton Swtich9er is giving me bad thoughts though.

I think it'll be a Stormer down hill, and too compromised uphill to use a a proper trail bike.

Every now and then I think about changing,

Slackset is a relatively cheap way to try some tweaking. I've enjoyed it- a little less flicky in the really tight trees (but bear in mind I was running a 55mm stem, so on the sharper end of things already) but a lot calmer on anything fast or steep. Steep and slow is where I noticed it most at first.

Any love for an Orange P7 29, not seen many reviews but might fit the bill?

 I think it’ll be a Stormer down hill, and too compromised uphill to use a a proper trail bike.

I thought that about my FlareMax before I got it, but it didn't turn out to be the case. You might be right and of course, everyone's definition of a "proper" trail bike is slightly different, but I wouldn't rule it out.

I'm basing that on owning a Last Fastforward for 18 months (ish).

Any of these long long slack 29/27.5+ steel bikes have internal routing?

Looks like Scott have dropped the slack geo alloy scale plus for 2019 so I might have to go back to steel and cut my lower back some slack 🙂

Curveball - Genesis Tarn 27.5+/29+ compatible, stealth dropper routing, modern geo, cheap right now for frame only !

https://www.biketart.com/bikes-c1/frames-c33/genesis-tarn-frameset-2017-p21139

That is a great price for the tarn frameset. Especially considering you could sell the fork for 100+

I built up a 2018 frame. Love the geometry. The frame is a bit heavy but it's very comfortable and stable on descents.

The obvious budget option would be an Inbred 29. I've had one for a few years now and it's a great ride, but....tyre clearance is limited, getting half-way decent straight-steerer forks is difficult (eBay or here) and it has a 135 QR rear.

It's also quite heavy and flexes a lot under power in the larger sizes, but they are very cheap, and if none of the downsides are an issue for you it will make a brilliant all round bike, it handles exceptionally well.

Lots appear on the auction site, leaves you more money for light wheels.

Have you looked at the Ragley Bigwig? Steel 29er/27.5+ and not super-expensive. They have the frames reduced to £350 on Ubyk by the look of it from a quick Google.

I'd personally go for a SolarisMAX, but I already have a new BFe so I might be biased! I like the solid block colours on the Ragley.

Another vote for Solaris mk2 - great bike, fun and fast, like the 120mm fork and very capable (certainly more than me!). If you have doubts about the QR have a look at Cy's blog about it on the Cotic website.

To aid the decision it might depend if you have some bits already. I ended up with the Cotic as I had a dropper and it fits the seat tube! The Stanton is 30.9, Cotic 31.6 - initially struggled to choose but realised would need a new dropper if I went Stanton.......

Ive got an unused  jamis dragonslayer frame I’m selling and maybe some 27 plus wheels. Not as slack as most of the above but probably better for the longer days in the saddle you mentioned. Reynolds steel and sliding drop outs, so it can do single speed as well as 27+/29. Let me know if you’re interested