Forum menu
Vouilloz, who has proved that he is still the alien, ran clips pretty much full time, as did Peaty!
And Fabien Barel, Greg Minnar, Dan & Gee Atherton, Cedric Gracia, Mark Beaumont, Aaron Gwin and Danny Hart (even the super fast mega wet WC winning run) and probably more.
Then you have all the 4x riders which use SPD's, which was pretty much every one of them.
Thinking of switching to SPD's, been using them on the fixie for the past year. Never had a spill *touch wood*.
There is the efficiency thing, but the thing that's bugging me about grippy flats is feet positioning. You get on the pedals, one foot it slightly out, spend time trying to readjust it, but because the shoes/pedals are so grippy it's nigh impossible.
So by the time you've dicked around trying to get a good position, you could have just clipped in (same position every time) and gone...
And of course there are plenty of big names riders who ride flats, who are just as quick. Hell, the most successful DH rider of recent times is a flat pedal rider, who initially rode clipped in.
Also neglecting to mention probably the best 4X racer in history (Lopes) regulary raced, and won, with flats.
In certain applications, such as road, XC etc I don't think there is any question they are more efficient and faster but to suggest pro DH riders who make the choice to ride flats are slower because of their pedal choice is ridiculous.
To be honest why do people trot out DH riders. DH is not even cycling, its falling down a big hill and making down alive.
Road and XC is proper cycling hence why any proper exponent of these disciplines will use clipless.
In fairness, that's b*llocks. Are you seriously suggesting some of the quickest DH riders in the world are forgoing the chance to win because they prefer to ride flats rather than clipped in?!
Well a number did complain that skin suits were faster so should be banned.
Road and XC is proper cycling hence why any proper exponent of these disciplines will use clipless.
😆
This thread is nuts.
SPDs - ride them if you really think getting around 0.0002% quicker uphill really matters. there's no doubting there are marginal efficiency increases, 99.9% of people are riding bikes for FUN 99.9% of the time, does getting up that hill marginally faster actually add THAT much fun. (though last night i was the only rider with flats and a single ring, who was finding the most traction on the muddy ups and getting up them quickest? me). It's just mental attitude and fitness.
Flats - Are bloody awesome, if you have problems, you're using them wrong. Thin flexible sole+thin pedals is the way to go. None of these prescription 510 shoes and 10" pins. "er, i need support for my sole", bloody women.
IMO opinion people are looking too much at paying money for "performance" enhancers, you can't pay for enhanced performance with money, you have to pay for it with blood, sweat and tears.
Bikes are FUN, people ride bikes for FUN, just do what's most FUN and ignore what others are doing if it bothers you. base your preferences on the most fun gained, not performance. After all if you're having fun, you ride bikes more, the performance takes care of itself.
SPDs - ride them if you really think getting around 0.0002% quicker uphill really matters. there's no doubting there are marginal efficiency increases, 99.9% of people are riding bikes for FUN 99.9% of the time, does getting up that hill marginally faster actually add THAT much fun. (though last night i was the only rider with flats and a single ring, who was finding the most traction on the muddy ups and getting up them quickest? me). It's just mental attitude and fitness.
Getting up that hill is far more of an achievement than going down, just most new school MTBers aren't willing to put the effort in to get fit and would rather hide behind excuses as to why they are crap, rather than admitting they are unfit and unskillful.
This isn't meant as a dig at Jedi and the like, but at the end of the day you only get better by doing, you can't expect to buy handling skills. Yes someone can offer advice but no more.
This isn't meant as a dig at Jedi and the like, but at the end of the day you only get better by doing, you can't expect to buy handling skills. Yes someone can offer advice but no more.
Couldn't agree more on this one.
No substitute for miles on trails.
Although what Jedi, Richard, Clive etc. all offer is the technique to practice and hone in all those miles to get you through it faster, safer and with more fluidity.
skywalker - MemberAnd Fabien Barel, Greg Minnar, Dan & Gee Atherton, Cedric Gracia, Mark Beaumont, Aaron Gwin and Danny Hart (even the super fast mega wet WC winning run) and probably more.
Good chance those guys also fell for the Balance band thing too. SUCKERS!!!
So, can we conclude that spd's are the Devil's work then? (I tell thee).
Nope - best thing since sliced bread
clipless, it's the cycling equivalent of putting your pants on over your trousers and thinking it makes you Superman. You feel the power, the night and day difference....total nonsense, it's just another way of riding a bike and the differences are slight.
Road or offroad, it only matters if you're making a living out of it. Apart from that you're a hobbyist trying to pretend what you do means something.
But keep kidding yourselves it matters and the fun factor is so different.
I've been riding with spds for almost 15 years now and still have trouble getting clipped in on fast and/or technical downhills.
What am I doing wrong.
(oh, and I ride flats on everything except the cyclocross and the singlespeed)
Flat pedals do seem to make people whiney and defensive, 'Oooh you can't bunny hop properly if you haven't learned on flats'; so what, I manage perfectly well using the pedals that I actually ride on.
It's not about getting uphill faster, its about riding in a way that I'm used to, a way that I like, and one which has served me well for 20 odd years. I used flat pedals when I was 7 onwards, and clipless suit me fine for riding and racing. I'm sure there is a place for flat pedals, just not on any of my bikes.
DH is not even cycling, its falling down a big hill and making down alive.
So what about 4x, dual, bmx - are they not cycling either? I'm interested in your definitions.
...and I'm loving the 'the pros use them' so you shouldn't approach, hilarious...
I don't see any 'pros use them so you shouldn't' approach, maybe you need to read a bit more carefully.
But if you don't earn money from your cycling then what you use doesn't matter to anyone but you...simples
it only matters if you're making a living out of it.....
That's a reductive and blinkered approach in my opinion, it matters because its enjoyable, because its inspiring, because its not what I do to make a living.
Anyway, as you were, mind your feet don't slip off...
[b]skywalker[/b]
I suppose you forgot Dan now uses flats, and both Mark and Aaron Gwin used flats at Champery? Plus Peaty is well known for having used flats at Champery in the past.
Whether SPDs are "better" depends entirely on the situation, and preference of the individual.
Using 4x is a crappy argument. 4x is 99% who gets out the gate and into the first corner first so it makes sense for the riders to use SPDs.
SPDs give an undisputed advantage to pedalling efficiency over flat pedals, and in a race which is determined mostly on your ability to pedal the fastest, you'd be an idiot to ignore them.
Using pro DH'ers as examples for which is better is crappy too, all it does is disprove peoples misconceptions about each; feet blowing off flat pedals and lack of confidence using SPDs.
Ultimately for your average joe, it's down to personal preference. Bikes are about fun as so many have said - if you feel nervous being clipped in then any pedalling enhancements will be offset by reduced enjoyment and increased chance of crashing.
The same applies for flats of course.
???? correction, it's enjoyable for you, you're the one that is swallowing hype here. I don't care what you ride and I wouldn't rule out clipless pedals for myself, if I felt they met a need at a future point. Yes I have tried them before.
I enjoy my hobby as well, but I don't kid myself it's any more than that. I'm also very aware that, as hobbyists, we form a marketing demographic. Is it more fun one way or another? is there a bit of confirmation bias and a placebo effect in there?
It's not a reductive, nor blinkered, approach, it's realism. My needs are served by what I use, all of which far outweighs my skills level. You feel the need to use clipless and believe it improves your abilities and enjoyment. Fairplay to you, but don't dress that up as some sort of overarching reality applicable to everyone.
Crikey 3 pages...
Same as the OP I was like a newborn pony on SPDs to start with, but I kept on with them, and one day it does just click and you stop riding like a big Mary and just get on with it... I do prefer platform type SPDs though, you get a tad more support/feel for the bike with them I find..
For proper riding (DH and trails stuff) as well as XC mincing they make sense to me now, you ride everything with proper commitment, less dabbing, more speed at least that's been my experience with them...
I don't think you can say Clips or Flat are definatively "faster" it's one of a number of equipment choices that any rider will make, like tires, suspension, bars, etc it may work better for a given rider on a given track, but it's never universally "better" is it...
I can still easily get back on flats without any bother, but now I'm used to SPDs I'll probably stay with them for the forseeable on everything bar my BMX...
But if they're not for you then fair enough, theres still plenty of choice for flats out there...
For proper riding (DH and trails stuff)
DH isn't proper cycling. Didn't you get the memo? 😉
One thing that is often overlooked with SPDs is that the pedal is only half of the equation. The other equally significant part is the shoe - it is an absolute joke to use SPDs with recreational SPD shoes.
The main advantage of SPDs is that the pedal & shoe combination strengthens the weakest part of the leg - the ankle - and allows the rider to pedal for longer.
Any studies that extol the virtues of 'pulling up' or 'turning circles' etc are absolute nonsense.
Davecm speaks sense.
Is that a fact prezet?
Remember that there are to kinds of cleats, a race version and a normal version.Normal version allows you to "click out" inwards and outwards.
Race version only outwards.Wrong.
There are 2 kinds of cleat; multi-release, which you can unclip by pulling upwards as well as sideways, and which are therefore prone to unclipping unexpectedly, and single release, which unclip sideways, either in or out.
SPD cleats are not marked left and right, so the 'race only' idea is wrong.
Those multi release SPD cleats are terrible... just like having worn out proper ones...
On Time Atac system swapping the cleats from left to right does have an affect on release angle.
Mark and Aaron Gwin used flats at Champery? Plus Peaty is well known for having used flats at Champery in the past.
You're absolutely right, and got completely blown away by a bloke with clips!
Crikey is right, it does seem to the flatties that have the "we're so much better than you and here's why......." attitude. As I've said, who cares as long as you're out there having fun. (I can and have run both so I can say that 🙂 )
And yes, Davecm speaks wisely, but not a lot differently to what a few of us have already said 😉
DH is not even cycling, its falling down a big hill and making down alive.
cookeaa - Apparently so... 🙄
glitchy bumpy
How do you guys get the energy to get so worked up about what pedals someone else uses? Seriously, who cares?
I wouldn't be without my spuds, use them for everything, have done for 20 years and would hate to use flats. So what? Several mates who are far better than me use, err, a variety of spuds and flats. Proves nothing.
Ride. Enjoy. Life's too short to worry about this sort of thing.
prezet - MemberFor proper riding (DH and trails stuff)
DH isn't proper cycling. Didn't you get the memo?
PMSL
i get foot cramp riding flats for any extended period, proper distances, nae just a quick couple of hours blast. that's why i like SPds for trail rides.
flats for super-tech, just nae trail riding....
glitchy bumpy
I don't get it - did the mods delete a post before yours? I'm struggling to work out why otherwise you need to bump to the next page by... er... starting a new page.
aracer -t here appeared to be a post not showing - it was saying 121 posts when I posted that and the last post was by somone different to post 120 but none showed up - so I am confused as well
Late to this thread - though I've read it through so will try not to repeat too much. I've ridden SPDs pretty much the whole time I've been riding MTBs - switched to clipless on a road bike back in '92, a few years before my first MTB so had already gone through the toppling sideways at the lights bit, and got SPDs very soon for offroad riding.
I've always primarily been a (XC) racer, hence SPDs make sense for the very real efficiency and comfort advantage. I agree that normally you're not pulling up, but sometimes it does help a lot to be able to. The rest of the time there is a physiological advantage to not having to put any work in to keeping your feet on the pedals - good flat riders might not have any trouble keeping their feet on the pedals, but that doesn't mean it's effortless. Also as mentioned above, there is a significant efficiency advantage to using stiff soled shoes which you can only do with SPDs - good for shorter distances, very important for longer where there is a huge advantage in terms of comfort and foot fatigue (especially for me now I have a chronic foot injury from running).
Suggesting that some DH riders using flats some of the time shows there isn't an efficiency advantage is spurious - the fact most of them do some of the time (still riding more gnarly stuff than most of us ever do) strongly implies there is an advantage. Some of them using flats just shows what we all know that there are some benefits to flats for that sort of riding - though clearly not enough to outweigh the advantages of SPDs for most.
Occasionally I have dabbled with using different pedals. Have used powerstraps a few times in events with lots of transitions between biking and running where it didn't make sense to change shoes - don't understand why they're not still popular, as I found them far better than old-fashioned toe clips and almost as good as using SPDs. Did some indoor races a few years ago, with even more transitions, but also where we were jumping on and off the bike all the time and flats made a lot more sense rather than toe clips or even power straps.
I have recently for the first time ever put proper pinned flat pedals on an MTB though - have got used to the idea from riding a uni and also now own proper flat pedals and shoes. I'm hoping to improve my riding technique a bit riding on flats occasionally - this is on my hardtail hack though, and I doubt I'll be getting rid of SPDs on my main full-sus any time soon. Really it just comes down to what you want to ride on though - advantages and disadvantages to both.
As for the OP though - and all those who have problems either with toppling sideways due to failing to unclip or with not being able to keep their feet on flat pedals - user error!
there appeared to be a post not showing - it was saying 121 posts when I posted that and the last post was by somone different to post 120 but none showed up - so I am confused as well
Yeah - I had noticed the funny post count (125 posts, but only 4 on this page). Checking further (not that difficult - search for 'AGO #' on a page and it should give you a post count) it appears page 1 has 41 posts!
Any of the mods following this thread able to comment? Did a post get deleted and then re-instated? My understanding is that the need to glitchy bump comes due to posts getting deleted and the forum server side software using different algorithms for calculating when to start a new page and what the last page of a thread is.