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Flats ? no way thats for toys/bmx
All bikes are toys for having fun on 🙂
I learnt to ride on flats and used them for a good 7/8 years before I switched to SPD's. Rarely use the flats now though as I personally prefer SPD's for most things. Only time I feel uncomortable is when it gets really loose, although I can pretty much clip out instantly without thinking now if needs be.
Did give flats another go on an xc ride a couple of years ago and they felt horrible, pedal-efficiency wise. I think they both have their place though, for messing around stuff flats are probably better.
It's definitely a good idea to learn on flats too as they teach you the proper techniques, I have to admit that SPD's do make me a bit lazy sometimes.
I also get the general impression that it's a bit cooler to be seen riding flats at the minute? There's a particular mtb mag I like, but they always slate SPD's for no apparent reason? Does annoy me a bit....
I can't really talk though as I insist on using the skate style SPD shoes and wouldn't be seen dead in the clown variety!
Like I say, they both have their place though.
Never used SPDs and probably never will.
The perceived advantages* gained from using them would be of no benefit to me personally and the thought of having my feet attached to the bike (however loosly that may be) does not appeal to me in the slightest. In much the same way as i'd never contemplate strapping my hands to the bars or gluing my bum to the seat.
* being able to pull up on the pedals is the only one that makes sense to me - all this better technique stuff is cobblers imo.
I dont get the whole "if i use spds it makes me better," surely then they are skills compensators. If you had the skills your feet wouldn't blow off the pedals, you would be able to climb as well as people on flats, you could go as fast without using spds, you wouldn't crap it going over a jump cos your feet leave the pedals. i like riding my HT bike with flats, thats just me, wear spds if you must but don't try telling me they're any better or you've got any better bike technique or control than on flats cos that aint the case paaaaal.
dabble - they are deffo more efficient peddling. the rest of what you say is true tho.
The greater efficiency I cannot quantify but its undoubtedly there.
Fair dos, i suppose you can pull up on the pedal, although i have heard that this can lead to unneccesary strain on the knee joint, buts thats an alltogether different debate.
Now that i've had my rant ive calmed down, lets just let bygones be bygones and all go ride bikes fast down hills together cos in the end, thats what its at all about, right? Right.
OK, someone go out and do a 5 mile loop...
1 run with SPD's
1 with Flats..
Lets compare MHR, AHR, Speed and time.
I've tried SPD's offroad a few times and just can't get on with them, always find myself thinking how I'm going to clip out if things go wrong, and guess what they do!
With flats this goes a way and I can just get on with riding. However get on fine with them on the road bike.
Read this re efficiency flats vs spd's - [url= http://www.bikejames.com/cardio-training/the-science-behind-barefoot-pedaling/ ]flats vs spd's[/url]
SPDs for proper bikesFlat pedals are for the pub bike and tourer when you don't want to wear cycling specific shoes.
Mallets on only bike so I have the option of clips or trainers.
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I tried SPD's for the first time and my GF decided she wanted to try them as well. First time out we decided to have a pootle round Minotaur at Coed Y Brenin.
I fell off about 5 minutes in and hurt my wrist (couldn't unclip). I then fell off when she decided to stop across a switchback (couldn't unclip). She then fell off trying to do a u-turn on a fireroad (couldn't unclip). Luckily I had the flats in by bag 'just in case' so they were put back on and we limped our way back to the carpark battered and bruised.
The SPD's haven't been back on since. I know part of the problem was probably that they were too tight but it knocks your confidence as you crawl to a standstill and slowly fall to the side! I'll try them again on a local trail sometime soon as I can see the advantage in them but until I get used to them locally I'll be on flats on any new rides!
I think everyone has to have at least one [i]couldn't/forgot-to-unclip[/i] moment when they start on SPDs.
The ideal time is in the ASL box at traffic lights, helplessly falling sideways in front of an audience of amused motorists. 😳
Dabble - I like to think of my SPD's as more of a skills 'booster' than 'compensator' 😉
[b]amedias[/b],
No, you're not. I ride anything from XC to alpine DH tracks and have used flats and SPDs for all.
In the nicest possible way, those who complain about feet coming off etc with flats simply haven't got the technique right - drop your heels and you will charge through the roughest of the rough (hint: how many pro DHers who ride flats do you see blowing a foot of the pedal?).
Why does one have to be right and one wrong...?
Are you new here?
OP - MTFU.
as many above, ive ridden clipless since i ditched clips & straps
since i became aware that its technique that should keep my foot on a pedal ive been very tempted to try flats
but both my riding shoes are spds, and all my bikes have clipless.....
so a couple of weeks ago i made the executive decision to get shot of the flat pedals that i had hanging about
GrahamS - +1 It is so embarrassing. At least off-road you are not in full view!!
Mallets on only bike so I have the option of clips or trainers.
Ditto. Old style Mallet 1 on the Inbred, new style Mallet 2 on the Bandit. Both are rideable with trainers/skate shoes for shop/pub/beach trips or AM45s for "proper" riding.
After riding flats on my FS, I find the SPDs on my HT a little un-supportive in the rougher bits.
Getting started on loose steep bits in SPDs is the ultimate biking skill!
I switched from clips & straps to SPDs in 1993, and I've never looked back. First ride or two is a bit hairy though - my best moment was falling into the window of the bike shop where I'd bought the pedals earlier that day.
I like both but usually choose by which will be more fun.
I use both. SPD's are definite skill compensators. Much easier to do bunny hops without proper technique on SPD's, same with jumps. If you can't manual and want to learn, it's a lot easier to practice on flats.
Personally I reckon it's best to learn your trade on flats then move to SPDs.
weeksy - Member
This isn't just for you, but for all these people who find SPD's more efficient.. how do you quantify this?Do you have times for a set route that you're quicker on with SPD's than with flats ? Do you use another method ?
For example, with my 29er i am 4-6mins quicker on a 1hour ride over my 26ers.... therefore IMO i am more efficient...
How do you work yours out ?
I have spent well over 20 years riding clipless pedals.
I road the same 10 mile road route for over a year 3 times a week, all weathers, alternating with clipless and flats. At the sme time i collected weather data, the usual temp, humididty, wind directing and strength, road conditions etc.
Set up a spreadsheet and did the number crunching. Working on averages and taking account of the standard deviation.
Clipless were 2mins 32.332 sec faster than flats over the same 10 mile course.
I did all this in 1988 because i anticipated your question.
but everyone knows that the standard bearings in flat pedals didnt get the upgraded grease till early '99
i use either in the summer but defo flats in the mud. its a confidence thing.
my conering has improved due to the spd use as you cant be a wimp and take a foot off with spds (as easily) especially as it can be a ball ache to clip back in.
I don't really buy into the efficiency thing much, I had some of those spd one side flat the other side pedals on my road bike and didn't notice an increase in my average speed when using spuds. I do feel theres a bit of a difference for climbing as you can pull up as well if you're trying to beast it up a climb in a harder gear.
i ride both dependant on what / where i'm riding.
80% of my time in SPD's however. shoes cranked reet tight and tension almost max in the spd. lovely tight fully connected. superb. and shimano FTW btw 🙂
I'm sure this has been said to the OP already but the problem ain't with the pedals.
The main performance advantage of clipless pedals is that they allow you to use cycling shoes with stiff soles.
The shoes used with flats generally have a less rigid shank, and a more flexible, grippy rubber sole, so the transmission loss between you and the pedals is greater.
A proper, stiff soled cycling shoe will tend to slide off a flat pedal too easily, but with clipless you can attach the shoe securely and enjoy the benefits of more efficient pedalling.
A mate of mine uses the spd/flat pedals I normally associate with trekking type bikes. He swears by them although the flat side isn't as grippy as normal flats. This did save my ride once when we went on an away day miles from home and I had forgotten my spd shoes. We swopped bikes and I rode in trainers all day but I was glad to get back to spuds
This isn't just for you, but for all these people who find SPD's more efficient.. how do you quantify this?
Check the elite DH guys, only the die hards ride flats. This is because SPD's are more efficient, therefore quicker.
I started using spd's a week ago for the first time. They definitely improve efficiency without a shadow of a doubt. Went for a road ride and just felt as though I could go on and on. Took them round Cannock on sunday on my trail bike (what could go wrong?) and crashed about 6 times in a very ungainly manner when I panicked and couldn't get unclipped quick enough! They felt brilliant over rough stuff but cornering on the descents that I would normally attack, and on steepish, technical /sloppy and rutted stuff, I was VERY nervous.
I'll stick with them on the road for sure but still definitely a work in progress for off roading. May go back to flats but see how it goes.
As for the snobs on here saying spd's are for 'proper' bikers, two words... Sam Hill. What ever floats your boat and works for you personally then stick with it I say.
Its just push biking. Its not serious.
If that comment was directed at me, I said people riding XC on flats look amateurish. For DH and particularly freeride, flat pedals are a great option. You can't do superflip airs in SPDs, and it's not so easy to do foot-out corner drifts either.
Yes it is. You can have the foot out in a split second when you're used to them. I've managed to get both feet out in time to get off the bike before it goes off a trail (clearly nothing to do with my piloting). That said, my bouncy bike tends to have flats on it but HT and road bike have clipless.
It would seem that spd's are for those who worry about timing their rides and 'efficiency.' Oh, and those who can't bunny hop without them of course. Just admit it. Go on. You could try and have some fun too.
I think that technique comes into both types. There is a definite technique to riding with flats which is more apparent, but there is also a technique (aside from the clipping and unclipping) that is required to get the most from SPD's as well.
Like flats, this develops over time and also has a lot to do with the ability to use a rigid soled shoe.
Both methods require different muscle use. On SPD's you'll find that to get the most out of it you will initially feel 'wrong', but given time to adjust you will definitely find that there are benefits. However, saying that, flats have their place as well.
At the end of the day, if roadies use them due to efficiency then there must be some benefit and this will definitely transfer to off road as well. It just depends how you feel about being clipped in when it's loose or muddy that you have to decide on, but there are benefits here as well (such as smoother power delivery on loose climbs etc).
Check the elite DH guys, only the die hards ride flats. This is because SPD's are more efficient, therefore quicker.
In fairness, that's b*llocks. Are you seriously suggesting some of the quickest DH riders in the world are forgoing the chance to win because they prefer to ride flats rather than clipped in?!
Everyone goes through that SPD phase, it's adolescence, you grow out of it, if they don't kill you that is.
Everyone goes through the SPD phase its like becoming an adult, only those who still ride kiddy bikes stick to flats.
You be telling me that training wheels are never ment to come off soon.
In fairness, that's b*llocks. Are you seriously suggesting some of the quickest DH riders in the world are forgoing the chance to win because they prefer to ride flats rather than clipped in?!
No I am saying that flats are more efficient/faster, so most of them use them 🙄
Efficient? I think SPDs make me lazy, I don't have to think about pedalling because I'm literally attached to the pedals.
SPDs only become a problem on the loose/wet roots etc when you start to think 'I'm clipped in, how will I get out...crash'
When they feel natural they're ace.
As I said too many pages back I still use both.
As for DH'lers most of the top guys will make a decision which to take based on how much pedalling a DH course demands/how tacky it is etc.
They don't just have benefits uphill, I can use them to pedal away on the flat for an hour to get to some area of radness where I feel fresh to start putting some effort in.
To be honest the average fat, trail centre xc mincing jey boy probably would't notice the difference, hence why most of you don't have a clue what you are on about. But this is STW, so I expect nothing less.
In fairness, that's b*llocks. Are you seriously suggesting some of the quickest DH riders in the world are forgoing the chance to win because they prefer to ride flats rather than clipped in?!No I am saying that flats are more efficient/faster, so most of them use them
It's always amusing when people trot out the DH argument in support of flats as most of the field switch between clips (SPD and Mallets, with the latter the most popular) and flat depending on the conditions.
Vouilloz, who has proved that he is still the alien, ran clips pretty much full time, as did Peaty!
Remember that there are to kinds of cleats, a race version and a normal version.
Normal version allows you to "click out" inwards and outwards.
Race version only outwards.
It sounds like you need to train your spd skills, I love mine and wouldn't change them for any other pedals.
[i]Remember that there are to kinds of cleats, a race version and a normal version.
Normal version allows you to "click out" inwards and outwards.
Race version only outwards.[/i]
Wrong.
There are 2 kinds of cleat; multi-release, which you can unclip by pulling upwards as well as sideways, and which are therefore prone to unclipping unexpectedly, and single release, which unclip sideways, either in or out.
SPD cleats are not marked left and right, so the 'race only' idea is wrong.