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Was just about to buy that stuff from Poah's link - have to put it on hold till we find out why it's no use.
So with the 50mm packing foam stuff. How well does the stans get round the wheel.or does it get trapped?
I wonder how much it actually spreads out the load of a whack to the rim from a rock. Obviously it will do so a bit, but it doesn't appear to be that strong.
On the back of putting a hole in the 2.5" DHF I'm running on the rear of my BFe, I ordered 2x approx. 2M of the 50mm rod a few days ago from Dortech.
One of the 2M lengths now resides in that wheel - a 26" Flow Mk1 - and it fits perfectly. Just! The big volume tyre helps (wouldn't want to try 50mm dia on a 2.3" Maxxis), and the length is exactly right for 26". Might need two shorter sections for 650b or 29".
The tyre was a bit harder to get on, as the rod pushed the bead into the rim hooks, so a screwdriver was used as a tyre lever to get the last 15cm of bead on. The tyre inflated with a compressor with ease (it's a non-TR DHF) and seems to have stayed up. It also feels somewhat like I guess a runflat does without any air in it.
It'll get a run out in Chopwell on Sunday over some rocks and roots, but hoping it'll be good. Since the Spitfire snapped I've been using my spare BFe and my riding style still isn't acclimatised to hard tail riding just yet, and getting the air pressure in the rear tyre is more of a guess than knowing the exact number.
As for the fluid, I'm using Oko diluted about 50:50 with water for now, so hope it'll still seal. However, if I was to repeat I'd cut channels out of the upper and lower edges of the rod, and possibly drill a lot of 10mm holes as well so that the fluid can migrate. In fact, I'll be trying it on the HB160 when it eventually arrives!
Can't find any 2" backer rod out here in Canada. Do we think taking two 1" rods and taping them together would work? You'd the width but lose out on the height. Maybe it would set too well in the tire?
Edit: Another option looks like this stuff: http://foamzone.ca/rv-marine/closed-cell/xpe-closed-cell-charcoal.html
A couple of strips of that for ghetto huck norris style insert?
So this backer rod stuff sounds like it’s the pick, are people cutting it flat or leaving the whose sausage in the wheel?
I’m also debating whether to put this in both wheels or just the rear. Rear gets the abuse but if it helps to run lower pressures in the front that’d be pretty sweet too. Any thoughts from people who have tried it?
So this backer rod stuff sounds like it’s the pick, are people cutting it flat or leaving the whose sausage in the wheel?
Today I've setup 4 rear wheels thusly:
- 30mm 'whole sausage' with 2.0in tyre on 19mm internal (XC race setup)
- 40mm sliced in half with 2.0in tyre on 19mm internal (alt XC setup)
- 40mm sliced to 2/3rds thickness (ie: 1/3 removed) with 2.3in tyre on 26mm internal (trail)
- 50mm sliced in half with 2.4in tyre on 30mm internal (alt trail)
Not ridden any of them yet but planning to test them out as and when I have the time and on appropriate rides, curious to see what the difference, if any, in feel and protection there is between the different thicknesses.
I've still got some unmolested 40mm and 50mm rods and pondering whether to wang a complete one into my 2.8in +tyre wheels...
40mm backer rod in 28mm rim and 2.4 tires
No rim strikes today coming down heartbreaker ridge at pace nor mastermind
I'm sold for now. Will monitor
i bought two huck norris (norrisi?) for 50 euros. couldnt be bothered with the faff.😀
The 50mm backing rod proved it's worth in Ae today coming down Omega Man when the back wheel impacted rather hard on a pointy rock - was convinced the tyre was going to go down, but it held, and only because of the bodge.
Out of the 6 of us there, 2 had snakebites - one Fx1 & Rx2 running tubes, one 2xR tubeless then tubed.
I'm sold on it, especially on the hard tail.
Was that a whole 50mm rod or cut down/in half? What size tyre wa that in? I have a couple of uncut 50mm rods here but can’t see them realistically fitting in anything smaller than 2.8 or more without pretty much filling the tyre.
EDIT - ignore me, just spotted your earlier post with all that info in 🙂
I'm running 50mm rod as a full rod in Specialized 2.6" tyre (rear only) on a 33mm inner width LB rim.
Seems to work a treat, carries some marks now where it's done it's job, but held up brilliantly.
"bought two huck norris (norrisi?) for 50 euros. couldnt be bothered with the faff."
Who was faffing ?
5whole pounds and 10 minutes work .
No faffing happened. Beer did though
Top work everyone. This is some premium forum. 🙂
I have a Huck Norris on the bike and a Mr Wolf Banger in the cupboard because I'm very gullible. I must get around to actually trying the Mr Wolf...
I'd be very interested in how you find the Mr wolf banger.
I'm interested in how it moderates the tyres compression and rebound. It was the inspiration for me to try the full fat 50mm backer rod.
@trail rat. I was faffing. I can't get hold of these things in Sweden without significant postage and/or searching. Good luck to you guys though. Top bodging!
How is this foam backer any different to pipe insulation? (comes in various sizes and is easily available) except for the obvious core removed for the pipe.
Good thread this.
20 metres of 50mm winging it's way to me now.
4 bikes to do.
£23 posted.
Could anyone give me an idea of the size needed for 2.35 tyres on 25mm ID rims?
Great thread by the way guys!
I was really sold on the idea of the huck norris and cushcore when I first heard and read about them, but the price kinda put me off. I've just ordered 2 x 2m lengths of the 50mm backer rod, and going to set the capra up with it.
Is it important to get a fairly close fit around the rim with the backer rod?
Tested again last night on a trail call rim pinger.
Running low pressures (you can see the wear lines round the sidewalls) I didn't have any new dings/burp my tire nor did I hear any rim pinging......
My mates managed to ding and burp . We were all going hell for leather though 🙂
They are off to get some backer rod now.
"How is this foam backer any different to pipe insulation? (comes in various sizes and is easily available) except for the obvious core removed for the pipe."
It's more dense and the core isn't removed so it's even more dense for a given od.
that stuff I got couldn't be bent and it was quite brittle TBH.
the 40mm rod looks a good plan for my 25mm rims and baron tyres.
Fitted some 50mm backer Rod on my rear 30mm ID rim last night which is running a 2.5 WT Exo maxxis aggressor
Cut in half as can't see how you can get a full Rod in there.
One half of a 2m Rod fitted almost perfectly.
What kind of pressures have you been running on the rear with this in?
I'm a serial rim dinger riding mainly in the peak.
Also I went overboard and bought 20m of the stuff which will last for years so if anyone in Sheffield (S10) wants a of 2m section for the measly cost of £2.50 let me know.
I also bought 20 m, because there's always R&D required with the DIY approach, and I also have two bikes.
If you watch the Cush Core installation video and apply the same principles, you can get the whole thing in, but IMO having the whole thing present has a deleterious effect on slow speed mid size hits. I ended up cutting about 1cm off the height. I'd rather have a 60mm insert for the width too.
Nearly all the cuts are on the outer radius, further out than the rim bead. This tells me that I'm picking up most of my impacts when the bike is leant over. It'd be nice to have the insert contact and support the sidewalls of the tyre with a wider insert, and have more material at the margins.
92kgs, 2.4 29er tyres on 30mm internal rims. 18psi front, 21 rear.
how does the extra weight effect peddling?
Generally I don't try hawking my wares when I'm riding, so I don't know.
...all the cuts are on the outer radius, further out than the rim bead....
@scienceofficer - this would alternatively support the theory that when in a tyre under pressure, the whole thing shrinks.
Aye. It undoubtedly does.
Following this with interest,
Just a thought, would slicing say 15mm equally off the the top and bottom of a larger diameter backer rod be easier, so it is a, say 50mm wide strip 20mm thick (or whatever it needs to be) with curved edges, that would float between the tyre walls, as per Huck?
The material spec appears to be there or thereabouts, it’s just the shape that’s the issue?
It's not like anything like a similar spec. It's at least 3 times less dense., Which is why you need a greater thickness.
how does the extra weight effect peddling?
50mm insert cut in half is 60-70g on my scales so basically irrelevant, doubly so if it lets you get away with lighter tyres as a result
Cheers SO, I tried mine down a rocky trail (cavedale) with the same pressures as you noted tonight and everything felt great.
Just need to test it out on Potatoe Alley and Cut Gate to really test it out as these two trails are usually the source of my rim denting.
Set up a 2.6 with the full 50mm on the front with the usual amount of stans. Realised I'd put the tyre on the wrong way so had to undo it all. Usually there'd be a pool of fluid in the tyre but on this set up there were dry patches. Are people putting in a lot more fluid?
Been testing out the 50mm backer rod. I've still had some pinches when fairly hammering it, at lower pressures. however I think I've gotten away with more than I would have done without (obvs. Just an opinion can't back it up scientifically).
The complete uncut backer rod seems to absorb a lot less sealant. When I cut it in half it seemed to take a lot more, so I doubt there is any weight saving whole thing vs. halved.
30 mm Id rims, 80kg. Maybe 30psi in rear but I do hammer through rocky trails
If it's plasterzote your after it's made by zote foams. They used to have a factory in Redhill, I used it for bike seats and I just took sheets of it out of their skip. They told me to skip dive for it when I said I wanted a bit big enough for a bike seat.
I was told plasterzote was probably suitable for seats by a nurse, I can't remember what they used it for but the
hospital used loads of it, but it was pink.
Having felt how much the tube compresses and how little a huck norris does. I've taken the easy but more expensive option.
Been out for a short ride today on one of the converted wheels. Didn’t hit anything silly enough to get into any decent rim dinging situations so can’t comment on level of protection yet but what I can say is that the insert really does make a difference to the feel of the tyre.
the one I rode today was a 2.2 inch tyre with a cut down 40mm insert in it on a 19mm rim. Initially I ran it at my normal pressure and it felt a bit hard. Dropped down to my ‘you’ll be fine if you don’t ride like a twit’ pressure and it started to feel better, but still felt a bit over inflated so I dropped it down to what would normally be ‘squirmy and vulnerable but grippy’ pressures and it felt really good.
All the extra grip of the lower pressure but didn’t feel any of the normal squirm and it didn’t feel bouncy or wallowy, I also didn’t feel a fair few roots and rocks that I would normally expect to be able to feel at that pressure so I think the reduced volume coupled with some mild insert contact under compression was working together to let me run lower pressures more safely and with some added stability.
Will get some more ride time on and try different variants but initial trial is promising and I’m now as intrigued by the changes in feel as I am by any actual rim/pinch protection they may offer. Might be worth it simply for that!
Thanks for the link. Great money-saver, hack!
For less than £5 a wheelset if you trim the 50mm in half, it's got to be worth a shot.
Think 50mm halved in a Hope Enduro rim (23mm internal) should be spot on with 2.3/2.4 tyre? Or would a full 30/40 be better?!
Think 50mm halved in a Hope Enduro rim (23mm internal) should be spot on with 2.3/2.4 tyre? Or would a full 30/40 be better?!
I used the 50mm split in half on a 25mm internal rims with a 2.4 HR2 and 2.35 Magic Mary and it's worked a treat. I also found that the 2m length is pretty much the perfect length for 27.5 (just had to trim the smallest amount to make some space around the valve), so if you have 29er wheels you will need longer foam or have to join extra pieces.
I rode with this set up in BPW last week, and normally when I'm there I put extra pressure in the tyres to avoid pinches and tyre burping, which I suffered with on my first visit, but this time I left them how they were and even let a bit of pressure out of both tyres after a few runs, so ended up with 15psi front and 20 rear (I normally have around 22f and 25r) and had absolutely no problems at all, and riding those rocky trails with the lower pressures was so much better. For £10 (for 2 lengths and inc delivery) it's been fantastic VFM.
Been watching this thread with interest for a while. I've had a huck norris in the back tyre of my bike for a year. It's been pretty much unnoticeable in that time but it's clearly done it's job. I dented a rim the other week but I didn't notice the impact or get a flat. Upon inspection the foam strip is completely trashed - it has numerous cuts all the way around. I have installed the second strip as a replacement, but they are rather expensive for what has turned out to be a consumable item.
My next set up is going to have wider rims, and I'll be ordering some backer rod.
So when the tyre gets a nice big rip in it, whats the plan for those who have these huge backer rods in their tyres?
You can ride on it for a little I suspect but from what I'm seeing as it's less dense than the likes of cushcore I wouldn't want to ride on it for long?
I am tempted but that aspect is putting me off a little considering I've torn quite a few tyres recently. At least with a Huck Norris it's easier to fold up and put in your bag while a tube is installed to get you home.
I was thinking about this the other day and a hole that won't seal I would use the anchovies or duck tape for rips like I would normally. I also wondered whether a road/gravel tube with a long valve might work. You could then keep the foam in the wheel and the thinner tube might fit in the space above the foam?
Hope enduro rims no wonder you need a huck norris 👌😉👌
"You can ride on it for a little I suspect but from what I’m seeing as it’s less dense than the likes of cushcore I wouldn’t want to ride on it for long?"
suspect away - i punctured when i got a little lairy at the top of the larig au laoigh last monday. - saw it was a rock puncture wound in the top of the tread and didnt have high hopes of it sealing.
carried on to the bottom on a very rocky rough descent - albee it much less lairy .
tire held its shape well and didnt go all floppy - with a full 40mm backer rod in an exo 2.4 minion DHR on dt ex5.1d
got to bottom - decided to give it a wee bit of air and see what happened while waiting on my mate and as you say didnt fancy sticking a tube in and riding back to linn of dee with the backer rod round me neck.....
mirraculously it took air , held and even did an enduro yesterday at pitfichie on the same tire !
i expect its a consumable but at 2.50 if it saves on wasting sealant , tubes and tires thats a price im willing to pay.