[Closed] Some interesting, if rather depressing commentary on taking primary position

It merely explains human behaviour...some motorists (particularly those that dont ride bikes on the road) dont know what 'primary position' is and simply think the cyclist ahead of them is being rude and deliberately holding up traffic.
More questions about cycling in the theory part of the Driving Test would help with educating drivers.

Some drivers definitely understand it - it's very rare that I have problems with riding primary because I make it quite clear what I'm doing and why and as soon as I'm through I make a clear move back into the secondary.

I've got far more of an issue with road design that forces it though. What's happened over the decades is that roads have been built, they've been widened and straightened and at the same time cars have got bigger and faster and there are far more of them. Now suddenly that's a problem so they've tried to slow the traffic down by putting in more traffic lights/junctions, by widening pavements, putting in mid-lane refuges, painting hatched lines down the middle etc.

None of it with any thought as to where cyclists (or horse riders) are going to go. There's acres of unused tarmac out there, simply with hatched white lines across it and traffic forced over to the kerb - putting them into direct confrontation with cyclists.

We urgently need some sort of infrastructure law whereby any road repair, any roadworks, resurfacing etc looks to put in dedicated cycling infrastructure to a nationally approved plan, not just what some local council has deemed acceptable. It'll be very piecemeal initially but gradually, as roadworks get done and improvements made it should aim to do away with the need for all this primary/secondary and the associated risks.

When I'm driving, I am very aware of other cyclists on the road, when and where cyclists may filter past, how much room to give them for an overtake, why they're holding the position they are in the road etc. I only know that because I ride a bike myself though. There was a time before I got a bike when I wasn't a cyclist, and if I'm honest, I can't remember ever giving any of that any consideration.

As said by deviant, people will only really understand if they are educated about it.

crazy-legs - Member
.......There's acres of unused tarmac out there, simply with hatched white lines across it and traffic forced over to the kerb - putting them into direct confrontation with cyclists....

the ones that really gets me is when a cycle lane disappears so that a right turn lane can be put in the middle of the road so vehicles aren't inconvenienced by stationary right turn traffic but cyclists are supposed to space warp beyond the pinch point that is created

on a more positive note - anyone for [i]Sharrows?[/i]

here in sunny Melbourne some councils are using these extensively albeit on quieter 40/50kmph limited roads. think they originated in Portland, Oregon.

My local council won't use as the state road body design manual doesn't include them 🙁

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thanks to OP interesting read in the link

Some explicitly referred to what they perceived as a choice between a high risk of an unsafe pass, if near the kerb, and a lower risk of (even more frightening) deliberate aggression, if in primary position.

I made this point on at least one thread on this very forum and was smite by the Commuting Gods. Ultimately and realistically it comes down to whether or not you want to get home or be the most righteous corpse in the morgue.

I also think the deliberate blocking is starting to rile some motorists and this anger and contempt is being shared through obvious social media 'sects'* with the dangerous result of the skewed opinion getting reinforced and aggressive actions being approved. It'll probably get worse before it gets better.

I'll take a gander at the article tomorrow.

*From what I've recently read of various incidents. I don't use Facebook or Twitter.

I was thinking about this today when out for a ride around a new route.

Here, I'm the bottom of the wheeled ladder, about the only thing lower than me would be a buffalo pulling a cart.

Here there is usually a side lane that is meant to be use by motorbikes and bicycles, and just about everybody else if they decide to use it.

Sometimes that siding is badly damaged, non-existant, or blocked, so riding on the left lane is needed.

At least three times today, if I had been in the primary position I would have been mashed by an madly overtaking pickup truck coming the opposite way.

Even when in the left hand side bike lane, I still have to move over a bit just to be safe.

Maybe primary position applies to the UK and more developed countries, it would just mean smearing myself down the road here while thinking - I was in the primary position.

Living in a very popular road/MTB area with a lot of narrow lanes the pinch points are invariably parked cars. There seems to be an increasing tendency for drivers to seem to expect the cyclist to wait behind the parked vehicle so they pass it first the the cyclist can pull out and pass. Either that or compress the cyclist into some bizarre muiral on the door of the parked car.

But the depressing thing I see every weekend are the appalling manoeuvres made by cars with bikes on the roof/back when they are passing cyclists heading to and from their rides. It's almost as it they chucked their cycling brains in the boot of the car with their helmets

Definitely my experience. Riding primary - moving to centre of lame when passing pinch points - results in aggression and abuse. Not doing it results in unsafe passes.

Antigee - Sharrows a complete waste of time. London has had similar for many years. Used to be just the White bike symbols past junctions and some times in the middle of the lane where lane narrower. On CS routes 'elephants feet' blocks of colour past bus stops. Paint on the ground does nothing at all for real or subjective safety.

My comute is a quiet, narrow country lane. Rarely come across a vehicle but if behind I'll give them a glance & wave, then move over when it widens. 99% respond with a wave & a smile.
I'll do the riding prime thing if safe at junctions, but only to give vehicles a clear indication of my intentions. Dualling with a tonne of steel & a mobile wielding bint rarely comes off well. Part of that comes from motorbike riding I guess.

It's 90% education IMO, I know some very sensible considered people who get frustrated by people on bikes but once it's explained why they do what hey do their attitude changes.

A few public information films would remove thousands of altercations and allow the authority's to point a bigger stick at the remaining offenders.

Advanced stop lines are universally ingnored so I don't expect many other things like that to work. As a I cyclist and a driver I think road design has a big par to play. As mentionned above idealogical schemes to force people out of the cars has totally failed to do that which has made driving in urban areas more congested and increasingly difficult to comply with the ill thought out claming schemes, bus lanes and hamster priority lights. Frustrated drivers then automatically see us cyclists of an extension of the problem, especially as cycling is touted as an answer to congestion. The road planners and policy makers need to have a long hard think about how they would like our future transport infrastructure to look like and then apply a liberal of pragmatism and human nature to their plans. However it doesn't work like that in any other area of public life so I don't see why it would with the roads.