[Closed] so that means downill bikes will become obsolete....overheard in the LBS.

+1 Dangeourbrain

I've often thought of getting a DH/Park bike but then realized I'm a middle aged man who enjoys riding trails to making big jumps and everything local to me requires both pedaling up and down.
I can do DH tracks, I just do them slower on my AM/Enduro/Trail bike, however, I do think that the design of modern 160mm travel bikes is pushing the envelope to what the average rider could safely use them for, something you would ordinarily have automatically gone triple crown for before.

Meh

DH bikes are fun when there is a boatload of gravity, it's rough and you don't need to pop and pedal.

Trail bikes better on flatter 'DH' trails, fun trails and flicky stuff.

Maybe it's not that the DH bikes are getting outdated, we are just lacking the trails required to make them worthwhile.

My Nukeproof Mega AM is about as beefy as it gets for a trail bike. On my DH bike I can ride the Fort William WC track top to bottom non-stop in 8 minutes-ish. On the Mega there's no way I can do a non-stop run. On stuff like Inners there's not much between them on any given run, but the big difference is that over the course of a full day's riding, I feel a lot less beat up on the DH bike than I do on the trail bike.

My Spec Enduro is faster than my dh rig ever was. But if it is proper DH terrain I'd expect a modern DH bike to be faster

Youre talking about Jared Graves 3rd at Pietermaritzburg in 2013. Not the most steepest track. I doubt he would have faired so well at the following years track at Hajfell. Horses for Courses.

I can ride any UK downhill I've done pretty much just as fast on a trailbike as on a DH bike

I think I could do a downhill course quicker on a trailbike than a DH one - less weight to carry as I gently clamber down it!

I've only ridden a proper DH bike for 10 minutes in my life (triple clamps, tiny stem, 220mm travel IIRC) but I would have been quicker on my hard tail.

The amount of movement it took to weight the front wheel for cornering was surprising (sliding-into-a-bush-surprising). I felt like I was riding a bouncy castle. With flippy-floppy steering and a saddle far too low for any kind of pedaling.

For me, a Nomad would be much quicker.

Correct me if I'm wrong but DH bikes don't seem to be getting longer travel whereas a bike that's still fun and rideable for long days can now have more efficient suspension and be a lighter weight. Our XC full sussers are probably better DH bikes than the DH bikes of 15 years ago. Surely not too long before the gap between DH and Enduro / AM bikes is barely there.

To be fair, Steve Jones of Dirt used to race the Dragons on an SX Trail & win Masters.

The Nomad is longer, lower & as slack as DH bikes of only 4-5 years ago, the only thing it loses out on is a bit of travel.

I doubt on the regional DH stuff I race I would be any faster on a DH bike over my current bike. Maybe if I was racing Bala/Llangollen it would be a different story, but i'm not.

Youre talking about Jared Graves 3rd at Pietermaritzburg in 2013. Not the most steepest track. I doubt he would have faired so well at the following years track at Hajfell. Horses for Courses.

Granted but that's not what we're talking about.
At Hajfell he almost certainly wouldn't have had the same result but we're not talking about racing against other people, we're talking about your own time on two different bikes on the same track.

I was having a read through this and the only thing that really struck me about it was stopping power. It's a small thing but I think it's pretty important. When you're talking about whether or not 2 inches more squish will equate to a similar diameter increase in testicles/ovaries, the ability to stop before a tree/cliff can afford you extra comfort.
I mean, the basic Nomad vs the basic V10... aside from 2 inches and a more laid back seat, it's the rotor size. Can a 180 rotor slow you down enough for a corner? Sure... but you can brake later with a 203.

On the topic of the sales pitch, if the guy/girl is getting into the sport, sell them a Nomad. If they don't take to DH, they still have a bike that'll do Enduro and XC. I think you're right saying it's about the sale more than anything else... but hey, not selling a one-trick pony to someone who may or may not know what they actually want... that's sensible to me. LBS doesn't screw someone over, they get repeat business.

It will take 10 mins to have it with a 203mm front rotor if you need it. Hardly a game changer. But you are right on the other thing, it's got a much better chance of getting regular use than a DH bike.

Surely the durability of the frame and the components comes into play too? I could buy a Nomad and ride it all season in and out of the bike park but I'd much prefer a bigger, stouter bike with tougher kit on it if I'm hitting DH trails all day long.

Exactly, it's about using the right tool for the job.

You could bash a nail in with the heel of your shoe but it'll be hard work and wreck the shoe, better to use a hammer then.

Same with Enduro and DH bikes, you can ride a DH track on a 140-170mm AM/Enduro bike but at the ultimate peaks of their respective abilities the DH bike will be faster....provided you can ride one of course....for most average riders their own familiar bike will be the one they're quickest on in a quick back to back test....but if you persevere with the correct bike for the terrain you're riding (and acquire the necessary skill set) you'll end up faster on the discipline specific bike.

Try giving one of the top WC-XC riders a 160mm full susser to compete the race with, sure the bike 'can' be pedalled around an XC course but at that level against guys on XC specific bikes the long travel full bouncer will be a hindrance.
Ideally we'd all have a garage full of purpose specific bikes for all the different kinds of riding out there, there is no single one-bike-to-rule-them-all.

Has anyone mentioned tyres yet?

I've had reinforced Enduro type tyres on my trail bike and its like dragging an anchor about. The DH bike always has dual plys, anything less would be ripped to bits.

Whatnobeer & Deviant
All of that might be true but the salesman (or anyone else) never claimed a trail bike would be as durable.

Why not do a test to see if enduro bikes are as fast as downhill bikes and can climb as well as xc bikes...[url=

ENDURO-MTB.COM "http://enduro-mtb.com/en/en-preview-issue-015-are-enduro-bikes-really-as-versatile-as-we-think/]link[/url]"

ENDURO Mountainbike Magazine | high quality mountain bike content

The most exciting mountain bike magazine of all time. digital, free and open-minded. Unbiased bike reviews and equipment tests. High quality mtb content.

Even though I do think an enduro magazine might favour one particular bike, we'll just have to see.

gavjackson1984

Why not do a test to see if enduro bikes are as fast as downhill bikes and can climb as well as xc bikes...link

Well in fairness at no point did the op mention an enduro bike climbing as well as an XC bike. Also I think Jared Graves result at PMB kind of answers this question as accurately as it can be. Interesting that Brendan Fairclough took his 170mm Scott enduro bike there the following year and said the track was too rough for it.

I think it's pretty obvious that the steeper/rougher/faster a track is the more a DH bike will come into it's own. Especially if that rough steep track is long and takes a physical toll.

Conversely the pedalier, flatter or smoother the track is the more it'll play to the strengths of an "enduro" bike. Anyone who follows pro racers outside of the WC circuit will see that it's not uncommon for racers to choose Enduro/Trail bikes to race certain local or national races. Mitch Ropelato on his Stumpjumper springs to mind.

Well in fairness at no point did the op mention an enduro bike climbing as well as an XC bike.

I think the link pretty much covers all bases

scruff - Member

Has anyone mentioned tyres yet?

I've had reinforced Enduro type tyres on my trail bike and its like dragging an anchor about. The DH bike always has dual plys, anything less would be ripped to bits.

Yeah but... If you're going to be using an enduro bike for uplifts you can just fit dualplies.

Does a 203mm rotor slow down a 40lb dh bike quicker than a 180mm does a 28lb enduro bike?

richiethesilverfish - Member
Although I'm not agreeing with the statement 100% by any stretch you do need to bear in mind that at the 2014 Downhill World Champs Jared Graves opted to ride his Yeti SB66 Carbon trail bike (the same as I rode XC!) and took it all the way to a silver medal.

Just to be 'that guy', it was the 2013 world champs, which was Pietermaritzburg in South Africa, it's the most pedally track on the WC circuit, most of the racers used 29er AM bikes, Gwin and Brayton, for example, were on S works enduros or whatever they're called. 2014 champs was at Hafjell of which everyone was on DH bikes

tymbian

this s a very good point

alpineharry

Just to be 'that guy', it was the 2013 world champs, which was Pietermaritzburg in South Africa, it's the most pedally track on the WC circuit, most of the racers used 29er AM bikes, Gwin and Brayton, for example, were on S works enduros or whatever they're called. 2014 champs was at Hafjell of which everyone was on DH bikes

Go and check your facts there harry.

tymbian - Member
Does a 203mm rotor slow down a 40lb dh bike quicker than a 180mm does a 28lb enduro bike?

Just to be 'that guy', it was the 2013 world champs, which was Pietermaritzburg in South Africa, it's the most pedally track on the WC circuit, most of the racers used 29er AM bikes,

I think a lot of people would be surprised. I once took my DH bike out in the peaks to try and smash out some KOMs. At first I felt really guilty for 'cheating' on Strava until I got home and realised that my times were significantly slower than on my trail bike. Now this is peaks/ blacka moor stuff and its not DH tracks, but I was surprised at how much slower I was - around 20%. I guess I can pedal and hop my trail bike around the trail, and skip from line-to-line far easier which obviously confers advantage on all but the gnarliest tracks. And this is comparing a DH bike to a 130mm bike, not the current range of extremely capable 160-170mm bikes that would presumably be faster still.

I'm sure that on the steepest, dirtiest, rootiest track I'd be quicker on my DH bike. I'm also sure that if I was riding uplifts, I'd prefer something I can use and abuse. And for the pros looking for the last few 10ths of a second on a WC track there's no question a DH bike is going to be faster.

So I don't think the DH bike is dead, but there are a lot of people (like me) who have a DH bike as a second bike but will soon be questioning whether that's a good use of their garage space / [i]n[/i] quota.

I think there's also a risk that we go 'full circle'. 8 ish years ago, people were pedalling 35lbs mini-DH bikes around on XC loops. Mostly, people have decided that's quite an excessive weight penalty. Now, you can get that same/ performance from a bike that weighs 27lbs and pedals fine. But also people are realising that more isn't always better - More travel makes stuff too easy sometimes. I predict a backlash and people riding 120mm bikes in 3-4 years time instead of 160mm.

Does a 203mm rotor slow down a 40lb dh bike quicker than a 180mm does a 28lb enduro bike?

So, uh, yes.

Does a 203mm rotor slow down a 40lb dh bike quicker than a 180mm does a 28lb enduro bike?

Yes, front tyre will generally grip alot more on a DH bike.

It really doesn't matter about brake rotor size though does it. Sticking a 203mm rotor on your bike isn't exactly a challenge, I've had one on all but one of my bikes in the last 10 years.

just to relight this-

Jared Graves at the weekend on the Oceania championship DH course, on a proper bike.

[img]

EP1.PINKBIKE.ORG "http://ep1.pinkbike.org/p5pb11963462/p5pb11963462.jpg[/img]"

Actually it isn't a proper bike...

Actually it isn't a proper bike...

SB6C with dual crowns and coil shock!

UK, DH, doubt you're actually going to be any quicker on a DH bike or held back by a bike like the nomad, well certainly not at regional level maybe even not at national elite, marginal gains and all that. IE bottom 95% will be fully dependant on skill set, maybe the top 5% will actually make use of those MARGINAL gains.

At the end of the day, how do you quantify how capable a bike is without coming across as a bit of a joke?

It's not just about performance, it's about confidence. Downhill bikes instill more confidence to go fast than even the current crop of Enduro bikes do.

I'd still take a lightish downhill bike over an enduro bike for UK DH any day.

peed isn't all of it. How about drops and jumps? Yes again Jared graves could clear the Grand Canyon on a shopping trolley. However, our local trail has biggest drop about 6ft high and 25 feet to clear or a table top at 30feet (yes its measured). I'm happy going at full speed at these on my DH bike. I've got stuff very wrong and whilst I had to change my TL Jim Jams I didn't crash and my bike was fine. Theres no way Id get away with it on my trail bike and even if I did I'm pretty sure something would break.

People seem to be cracking a lot of the carbon enduro bikes as well, I'm pretty sure people have started riding them like DH bikes as the head angles have started hitting 65 degrees and wheelbases have started reaching 1200mm. Unfortunately the frames are usually 2 pounds lighter than their equivalent DH bikes without shocks - hence something is going to break.