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... I'd thought, being level headed and all, I'd know what to do with most outdoors incidents tbh. But this evening in -4 icy conditions I came across a youngster (well half my age so not so young) on their own who asked for help with a puncture.
Once that was sorted we were chatting and it was obvious that the cold and ice / snow were terrifiying them. So we agreed to a social amble back to reality and got chatting.
Thing was every 30 seconds they crashed, face planted, otb, hit a tree..... Anyway it was a bit icy, but no matter how slow we went they were as tense as a bowstring. Every turn on the bars was 90 degrees one way or the other. Maybe 15 crashes later we were back to base.
Every corner, slope, camber. you could just see the shoulders rising, the fists clencing... smack! Ouch! We got back just before dark.
So basically - what can you do with someone that's so wound up by a circumstance, even somewhere they're used to riding, something they're used to doing, what can you do / say to get them back to themselves?
leave them to die
Get them warmed up and get some food in them.
I've noticed that I when I start to run low on energy my concentration/judgement slips and I'm more prone to stupid errors.
Hypothermia? maybe
Wot Al said...natural selection at work.They'll never learn otherwise.
how far from base were you?
Maybe would have been better to walk?
Oh - yes - and dang - never thought of the energy thing. That's bad. Really bad.
I always carry a spare set of stabilisers for this very thing.......
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30 mins normally - but icey as * so probably an hour. Walking 2-3 hours.
#Edit - Im curious about the mental side of this though - someone well used to being out and about on a bike gets physhed and just kindof mentally shuts down.
cynic-al - Member
leave them to die
always got to use the pirate's code in this situation
Maybe would have been better to walk?
We did walk some of the steeper bits- to me that was scarier than on the bike.
You were going so slow the poor chap was having to trackstand every 5 seconds? Maybe he thought the stranger he'd just got help from was looking for a different sort of favour in return? Or a kidney...
[quote=legend ]cynic-al - Member
leave them to die
always got to use the pirate's code in this situation
Not so much a code - more what you'd call "guidelines"....
Nice to see sarcasm on the first reply.
People can't be perfect.
If the person has extra layers in the bag then get them on, if you have food or they do then get them to eat it.
Before getting on the bike get the body warm by either jogging on the spot and then swinging your arms to getthe body heat back.
Even motivation can help.
Sounds like you did the right thing: looked after them.
Be calm and reassuring, take control in a calm way and get them home safe. Not a lot more you can do...
[quote=couldashouldawoulda ]
#Edit - Im curious about the mental side of this though - someone well used to being out and about on a bike gets physhed and just kindof mentally shuts down.
Yep. Seen it, but usually when out walking/climbing. You get low then loose judgement and co-ordination. Food usually works (at least for a while).
sounds like a crap rider. I'm no cycling god but y'know, sounds like a dick shouldn't be let out of the house.
You should have stopped to keep warm, next time look for a cave.
cynic-al - Memberleave them to die
If they are male, yes.
Female.................. 😳
I dont think they were cold. Certainly never mentioned it and had all the right gear.
But energy sounds likely.
So what's the tipping point for someone used to doing A/B/C and can suddenly mentally shut down / panic?
Oh - and thanks brooess - there's not much else you would do really. Someone needs a hand etc.
[i]sounds like a crap rider. I'm no cycling god but y'know, sounds like a dick shouldn't be let out of the house.[/i]
Another Yawn just for you.
Folk go weird in all sorts of ways when they're cold. Only thing I'd have done differently would probably be to introduce humour into the situation. Turn it into a who can have the daftest crash kind of thing. Introduces a bit of control into the crashes, and warms them up by stimulating their muscles around their core.
Where was this?
sounds like a crap rider.
Oh dear.
But even if that were true - what makes someone shutdown when they "panic"?
Remember when you first started riding? If you were anything like me, you froze/went stiff at the first sign of anything techy or pulled on your brakes inappropriately. Going slow over rocks and roots is guaranteed to end in spills. Once you've had one fall and the brain can't get the body to relax it'll keep happening. Cold and lack of energy hits your cognitive ability so you'll start to see "problems" that you'd usually ignire.
glupton - the humour thing sounds good! Somewhere near you btw!
druidh - I think you may be right, arms stiff - pushing danger away etc. So someone doesnt do that normally - does the cold make this worse?
ok, that was a bit much. but come on, people should know what they are doing. Messing about on a bike in the middle of nowhere in freezing conditions isn't a joke. There has to be some accountability!
The symptoms of hypothermia can vary depending on whether it is mild, moderate or severe. The severity of hypothermia is determined by how low your body temperature has become.
Mild hypothermia
The early symptoms of hypothermia are often recognised by a parent or carer. This is because hypothermia can cause confusion, poor judgement and a change in behaviour which means the affected may not realise that they have it.
If someone has mild hypothermia (generally with a body temperature of 32-35?C), the symptoms aren't always obvious but they can include:
constant shivering
tiredness
low energy
cold or pale skin
fast breathing (hyperventilation)
Moderate hypothermia
Moderate cases of hypothermia (generally with a body temperature of 28-32?C) can include symptoms such as:
violent, uncontrollable shivering (although shivering can stop completely at lower temperatures as the body is unable to generate heat)
being unable to think or pay attention
confusion (some people don't realise they're affected)
loss of judgement and reasoning (someone with hypothermia may decide to remove clothing despite being very cold)
difficulty moving around
loss of co-ordination
drowsiness
slurred speech
slow, shallow breathing (hypoventilation)
Severe hypothermia
The symptoms of severe hypothermia (a body temperature of below 28?C) can include:
unconsciousness (comatose)
shallow or no breathing
weak, irregular or no pulse
dilated pupils
The individual may in fact appear to be dead. However, under these circumstances the individual must be taken to hospital in order for it to be decided whether they have died, or are in a state of severe hypothermia. If this is the case, advanced medical intervention may still be able to resuscitate them.
ok, that was a bit much. but come on, people should know what they are doing. Messing about on a bike in the middle of nowhere in freezing conditions isn't a joke. There has to be some accountability!
Hmmm...
Thats a slippery slope. Charging for mountan rescue, no free A & E wif you were jumping
[quote=couldashouldawoulda ]druidh - I think you may be right, arms stiff - pushing danger away etc. So someone doesnt do that normally - does the cold make this worse?
Lots of mountain accidents happen when something fairly innocuous goes wrong but a bad decision will be made because brain function is being affected by cold, hunger and tiredness. Bad decision follows bad decision....
No worries kevevs - but my point is that this was someone who rides all the time, knew whats up, but for some reason - mentally shut down. Not some numptie on a bso. They had the good sense to ask for help tbf - but the mental calculations somehow shut down. That really is what my Q is about.
Might he have got mild concussion from a crash before you got there? Had that skiing where a mate who previously seemed fine at skiing was crashing every 30 seconds and asking where his gloves were...
Thanks glupton.
There was no shivering, no mention of cold fingers/ feet, but the other moderate symptoms may kind of add up.
Duuno if its just a simpler thing of kind of just giving up / tagging along with someone to do the thinking but loosing all coordination.
If you are interested in how stuff "goes wrong", I can recommend [i]The Black Cloud[/i] by IDS Thomson. Happy to let you borrow my copy.
it does sound like hypothermia or something. anyway, the guy is ok so it's a good result 😀
Well played OP for helping them.
I imagine he was very grateful, I'm sure most of us on here have for whatever reason had one of those moments where you can begin to feel panic rising slightly within you, and it's a pretty unpleasant feeling.
All that matters is that the situation was resolved to a healthy conclusion. Even with the "correct" gear on you can get pretty cold pretty quickly if you're moving slowly.
druidh- thanks: I might borrow that off you.
I guess I'm just kind of freaked that while we all try to help each other I was only slightly taken aback by how a seemingly capable outdoors person can just mentally freeze /choke in the face of something not too serious.
Sounds like confidence was blown and rational thinking had been clouded in fear/dread/doubt about the ice and conditions.
I would try to start simple and build confidence gradually from the ground up, set small goals and achieve them, positive reinforcement and a gentle serving of humour. General guidance and advice for the conditions, which I'm sure you did, can give them something to focus on in a constructive sense rather than just going round in fear cycles in their head.
Perhaps with the conditions as they were and light levels fading, energy getting ever lower then the best approach was keeping moving forward gradually. Your premium goal here was to get the person out of the elements and to the destination. If you can't eliminate the cause of the fear from the situation then it can be hard to get the mind to focus on overcoming it. Back to basics and reprogramming the mind to start doing some constructive thinking would be my answer to your q.
Have any of you been caught in such a situation, miles from home, unable to keep a grip on reality; as the day slips into all enveloping sub-zero darkness....
Me neither.
Must be horrible.
Pat on the back to the OP. Good on you for helping the chap out.
I remember having a flat once, miles out, light fading, cold setting in. I had to sit tight for a while, couldnt focus. Once I'd gained some control I could focus again & sort myself out. I can recall thinking daft stuff like ditching the bike etc.
so nothing has ever gone wrong on one of your rides? where its taken longer, been tougher (distance/steepness or technical/terrain), worse weather, a mechanical failure, a forgotten bit of kit, the planned cafe stop being closed. Start putting a couple of those things together and you can easily find yourself cold and tired at the side of the trail.but come on, people should know what they are doing. Messing about on a bike in the middle of nowhere in freezing conditions isn't a joke. There has to be some accountability!
Once you're in that position its difficult to concentrate, and if you start to loose your flow and confidence every obstacle becomes much harder than it would be if you are fresh, fed, fit and warm. Then someone comes along who seems to be offering to help get you home with a 'slow' ride - but perhaps his slow is still faster than you can manage in your current state and so you come off a lot.
Most of the silly crashes me / mates have had on long rides have been in the last 20% of the distance, precisely for these reasons. Tired, concentration going, energy gone, in a rush to get back etc... And once you have one silly off, another is often not far behind. The best course of action is to get off push for 5 mins, whilst munching some food and having a drink and a chat to recompose yourself; then when ready the 'struggler' goes first to set the pace. In tricky bits sometimes the other person is better going first but only if the follower is able to follow your line / position / tips.
Oh, and one other thing to check when someone keeps crashing at dusk - he wasn't wearing sun glasses was he? A mate of mine had 3 spectactular crashes in a row in the woods at dusk before we realised he still had his glasses on and was basically riding in the dark with no lights!
[quote=couldashouldawoulda ]druidh- thanks: I might borrow that off you.
Drop me an email if you're interested.