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Will try that one one day CH when feeling heroic...!
As for big tyres I do like the 28s on my Cayo- don't seem to be any slower but more comfortable and should be a bit more grippy...!
I haven't tried the 28's on my race bike I must admit. I'm not convinced they will fit though.
Also not entirely sure they would squeeze through the brakes in a propel...
There's no way 28s will fit in mine & CHs framesets, it'll foul the top of the fork and possibly the front shifter...
There's a STW Team issue bike on eBay in medium: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/253015172669
28s would struggle to fit under the brake cable on a Propel. I'll try my G one speeds. I run Vittoria 25c Corsa G+ which come up almost as wide. Clearance is a couple of mm and the rear cable picks up crud of the road. Not been a problem though.
Any idea when results for Tuesday's go up? I've checked BC over and over...!
Not for a few days sadly 🙁
Can't see the full results yet but it's saying I got 13th. New pb finish let's hope I can tick off top 1/3 too!?!
Doh! Not sure how many started so can't claim top 1/3rd lol. 34 finishers.
22nd.. yeyyy!
Awesome, well done! I wasn't sure which Leigh you were 😉
I've been lurking through this thread and its been really helpful - but I'd be grateful for any context, thoughts, ideas...
I've done 2 crit races now, both at Castle Coombe, which are 3/4 cat. There are about 100 riders in each race and in both I have struggled to stay in the group - first race I stuck with the group for 5 laps. I loved the buzz of it and knew I really needed to stay further up the group to avoid the bunching in the corners, but was too cautious.
I know that not may people stick it to the end in their first race. I really enjoyed it but don't know if its a futile endeavour!! I'm 42, got hairy legs and am not a super skinny racing snake (just under 11st). I ride with the fast group in my club fine, but I guess its more about the top end power for short bursts.
My first race I was still getting over a cold and my 2nd race was 4 days after doing the 307k Dragon ride (so not much threshold training!!). The pace in both has been about 42kph average.
I don't have a power meter or heart rate monitor etc (and can't really stretch to one).
What I was wondering was whether I should be looking for a cat 4 race only? Would a smaller group race make it easier? Would it help to go from a 50 tooth ring to 52??
Any thoughts and suggestions for someone who loved the buzz of it but isn't sure if they'll just start look silly turning up every week and getting dropped would be very much appreciated. thank you.
Any thoughts and suggestions for someone who loved the buzz of it but isn't sure if they'll just start look silly turning up every week and getting dropped would be very much appreciated. thank you.
You only look silly in your own mind mate. To the other guys riding you still look like a bloke bursting their lungs and pushing as hard as they possibly can ! If you'd seem my bit on this thread i was also dropped, but i kept passing a spectator who kept shouting nice things and i thought "he's been there, he knows the effort i'm putting in"
There's no shame in learning your trade the hard way. Crosshair was dropped in the first 2, maybe even 3? He's now a seasoned racer who is sprinting for points !
Bintangman-
Yeah, no shame in getting dropped. I think race 3 I would have hung but crashed and then race 4 Nath attacked and I got dropped 🙂
Then I switched to Abingdon after hanging a couple of times and got dropped there in 50% of the races.
I'm happy now I could hang with any Cat4 group but the last 3/4 race I did, I got dropped with 3 laps to go. That was 27.5mph.
I would definitely recommend some Cat 4 only races to build confidence.
Having power data has proved really useful for me to highlight just how much it comes down to efficiency NOT power. I used to be convinced I was too fat to ever finish a 25mph race at 200w average but I got very close at Thruxton the other week.
Ironically, the most power I've ever produced (303w normalised) was at both my FIRST and my LAST crits 😆 In the first instance, I used it to get lapped four times, in the second to drill it after repeated attacks, PB the final two minutes of the race and sprint it out for points. That's the difference drafting makes right there.
It is hard to commit to the wheel of a stranger but you have to.
It's all been written a thousand times by people more experienced than me but keep those eyes up; respond to what's happening ten wheels in front; view every time you have to brake as a massive failure; MOVE UP for the least cost possible; don't be afraid to move up; don't hold back in hanging on during surges- recovery WILL come; speak to people; relax and enjoy 🙂
I'm 6' and 13st06-13st10 btw 🙂
(Actually I think I race better at 13st10 because that's probably when I'm stuffed full of Glycogen and the attendant water supply)
If you do podcasts, find the Trainneroad Ask a Coach one and find episode 21 with the Cliff Bar Crit team. Listen to it a couple of times. It honestly gave me the confidence to ride how I did in the last race- there's some really good pointers there.
Pete Morris I think basically says that he wants his power file to show 30-35% of the race at ZERO power. And if he can move up whilst coasting, so much the better!
Smarter not harder 🙂
Thanks @weeksy and @crosshair - that's encouraging. I'm going to look for some Cat 4 races. I'm doing a bit more running now, with part of the logic being that it is quite high threshold work and will lose weight quickly.
The first race was just a full on sensory overload, but the 2nd I got a bit more comfortable moving around the (back of) the group, having a sense for what was going on around. I quite like the idea of a smaller group than Castle Coombe.
I'll dig out that podcast, thanks @crosshair.
I'm looking forward to the day I can stick it with the group through out. When I turned up for the first one, I hadn't a clue how hard I would find that to be!
For me, I hated that I couldn't do it. Hated that I was missing something blatantly obvious. Hated that guys obviously larger, taller, fatter, less powerful could breeze it.
It annoyed me so much I was determined to learn how to do it.
And now I'm addicted to it!
My hunch is that if your training time is limited and you don't have running 'goals' as such, then scrap it and ride your bike more instead. The aerobic fitness is transferable but very little else is.
If I had to be more specific then I'd say one day of intervals a week (any of the shorter duration ones from 10seconds to 5mins or even a medley of them), one day of Threshold work like a TT or long intervals, one race per week- all interspersed with recovery rides and one longer ride if you have the energy.
I followed a periodised plan and started from Base3 where there's already a fair bit of intensity and raced all the way through too but actually, have had good results for 6 weeks since that off of much less structure.
I have a new periodised plan waiting to start July 03rd but if my FTP test on Saturday shows that I've increased power anyway then I may ditch it and carry on with what's (maybe) working.
Race 4 - you've still not forgiven me for that have you haha.
I'd buy a HRM, they can be had for little money, and use that for what CH has put up there to zone your workouts.
To add another insight into race craft, I put more effort in my last race (in terms of watts) by hanging around the back end than the guy who won! 😆 But in my case it was on purpose (substituted it for a hard workout).
@crosshair -"
"For me, I hated that I couldn't do it. Hated that I was missing something blatantly obvious. Hated that guys obviously larger, taller, fatter, less powerful could breeze it.
It annoyed me so much I was determined to learn how to do it.
And now I'm addicted to it!
That is me 🙂 It's given me a goal to aim for, for myself and my own stubbornness! I think I might get myself a Garmin 520 and a HRM, as @nathb suggests (someone has given me an old one that just needs a new battery) and use the turbo some more - I noticed a difference just doing some interval videos with that.
The running is more a lunchtime thing if work and family prevent a ride after work (which is most days).
I will try to do some more structured intervals. I know a guy who used to run a well known team and he said the best thing you can do to start with is just go full pelt for 15 mins from your front door, catch your breath and then do it again...
I want to get there - finishing in the group will feel like winning to me!!
I know that not may people stick it to the end in their first race. I really enjoyed it but don't know if its a futile endeavour!! I'm 42, got hairy legs and am not a super skinny racing snake (just under 11st). I ride with the fast group in my club fine, but I guess its more about the top end power for short bursts.
You are doing fine and have started three years earlier than me! Crits with corners reward position and ability to put down power for short sharp bursts. I'm still no good at them. What CH neglects to mention is that I was on the back of the bunch telling him how not to get dropped 😉 . It's half fitness and half race craft. you already have the fitness. Now you learn the craft. Personally, I'd stick with 3/4's as the standard should be (a little) higher and you will learn faster. Then drop down to 4ths for points hunting.
The hardest Objective is number 1 - buy a license.
I think red blooded guys (like me) come into it thinking it's a drag race. Raw power and controlled aggression.
But it's not! If you have the same power or less than the bulk of the field then it's more like one of those geeky student fuel efficiency races 😆
Every advantage you can gain is a little bit more fuel left in reserve.
And that should be your mindset. So, a little bit of extra fitness, a little bit of focussed training (to train for those short hard bursts), a little bit of skills and drills, a little bit of concentration, a little bit of a better aero position, a little bit of thought about nutrition and hydration, a little bit less braking each lap, a little bit more smoothness following wheels and as many tiny improvements as you can find will suddenly add up to transform your race experience.
In the podcast they talk about shouting at people to close gaps for you for example. That definitely works in Cat 4 😆 Several times, when I've noticed a crafty attack launching, an "UPUPUPUPUP" or a "GOGOGO!" had the bunch closing it down for me.
'Chess on wheels' is over used but it's a great analogy. It's harder to win with a pawn but you can do it if you play every single move perfectly 😉
I think I've credited you more than enough in this thread TiRed 😆 But yes- it was a great help for Hillingdon. Again, another ten subtle advantages that added together made a huge difference.
This is from last week, not this. But is it wrong that the sight of the photographer makes me think of you judgemental lot and your aero-critiques ❓
It means I can't keep a straight face 😆
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Nope, you need 3 degrees more flex at the elbow and a closed mouth to be classed as aero.
My experience with you at the back is a little different TiRed! Just wanted to chill and chat for a bit, but you kept trying to encourage me to go launch some attacks 😆
Bintangman - if you're on a budget: https://uk.webuy.com/product.php?sku=SGPSMIOCYC100B#.WVVosLHTWhA & https://www.amazon.co.uk/Cardio-Bluetooth-Wireless-Monitor-Android/dp/B01M8QD9Z4/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1498769859&sr=8-2&keywords=Ant%2Bheart%2Brate&th=1
This weeks photos are on FB Leigh 🙂
Up the pointy end for once 🙂
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First solo centry: https://www.strava.com/activities/1062583263
Lessons learnt:
- I can confirm that the bike fits perfectly now, no usual aches or pains 😆
- 100 miles is a long way
- 2x 750ml bottles is not enough juice. I'm going to order a couple of 950ml ones for silly 75-100 mile cycles, unless I can find 1L+ ones lol.
Nice ride!
You are allowed to refill en route you know...
I cycle solo so it makes stopping a PITA!
Could always stick an old non-cycling bottle of water in your jersey pocket. Drink that first and then bin it?
Great ride though! You're gonna ride of the front of the 3/4's at this rate 🙂
Potentially, although SIS do 1L bottles for a few £.
The extra 500ml + potentially a small bottle of water in my jersey would be enough I think, as long as it's not a ridiculously hot day.
Ha doubtful! A century was on my bucket list for this year, I don't intend to be doing it again anytime soon 😆
Got to say though my Rapha core shorts were really comfortable throughout (well as much as one could expect). I'm not bothering with anything else now.
@CH, are there any normal size people at these races?
From the photos looks like an entire field of 80+kg monsters
😆 The living is good down here Fifeandy- we make the midgets race with the juniors 😀
Only joking, I don't know really. The Cat 4 entries have evened out to around 35 now from 40-50 earlier in the series. The skinny guys have either upgraded or hit the gym I reckon 😆
Skinny guys just go to Hogg Hill and get some points.
I cycle solo so it makes stopping a PITA!
I tend to find a little village shop and then take the bike in. Just poke your head around the door and ask if they mind you putting the bike in while you buy some supplies. I don't think anyone has ever refused.
Nice ride nath - excecllent course 😉 (100 km of it is my training loop for those interested). Had a hard SL 2/3 race yesterday (100 km and 1250 m of climbing - never flat). Hung in till halfway and fell off the back. Managed to catch a few other stragglers and drag them around until they fell by the wayside. Finished feeling pretty good with no signs of cramp I've had recently. Drank two 750 ml bottles, first was SIS fuel, second was NUUN salty green tea extra strength).
I just need a better 5 minute power for when the bunch decide to climb at full gas rather than the FTP. This is probably not going to happen with my classic tester profile! Flatter courses are less of an issue.
It was a lovely route - glad I stole it off you haha. Feel free to share some more! (I don't think you had a choice on that one ha).
Only bit I didn't like and got confused a bit was the big roundabout - it was really busy and I wasn't massively up for using it, figured out the useless cycle lanes though.
I need to get involved in these races next year, they sound fun!! Also keep telling myself to join a group ride one weekend...I'll join a twicks one soon!
Of all the weeks so far, tonight’s was the most likely to be scuppered by work. But I decided to pre-enter anyway as a motivator to try and make it happen. As it was, a number of disparate and easily disrupted things fell into place one after the other.
As the day wore on, I knew I was going to be able to go and ironically, if I hadn’t pre-entered, I would have given it a miss anyway. I was toast!
Often, the days when you feel rubbish before a ride can still yield a good performance once the legs get turning and during warmup I felt better and better. Slowly forgetting about work, I thought about the race. With a fair old wind, it was only going to finish up one way tonight but the very thought of sitting in at Z2 and trusting my luck to the sprint filled me with dread. That’s not what brings me down here every week.
I may be making slow progress but I am really enjoying myself and the chance of a bit of excitement off the front- no matter how foolish- was worth the entry fee alone.
Goals? Well, a point of course! But not at any cost. I wasn’t going to throw myself into obvious danger and I wasn’t going to be boring but I still hoped it was possible.
After that, I still had ‘bridge to a break’ in my sights from TiRed’s list to tick off.
I then had a few more lesser goals, or rather ‘objectives’ in mind to tick off. One was to remember to drink this week, two was to ride in the drops more again, even in the draft and three was to practice a cornering move from the Podcast I referred to the other day.
Basically, on approaching a tight corner (not that there really are any at Thruxton but people still slow for the top chicane) you allow a gap to open up to the guy in front, and then accelerate in to the apex so that as he does a several hundred-watt acceleration to get back up to speed, you are already gaining and get sucked along for very little effort.
This worked so well! Later in the race, when I needed to move forward, I employed this really well to go from the very back to third wheel with no more effort than anyone else took to navigate the chicane.
Off we went then and (yeah yeah, I’m getting the excuses in left right and centre this week!) the field was strong! Castelli kid was there, Ben was itching for his Cat 3 points, Skinsuit guy was there looking super composed, Heart Evolution had five or so riders and there were several Thruxton Newbies.
The pace was steady for a lap and then a few attacks started. The wind kept the lap speeds low and average for the race was just under 24. For some reason, everyone at Thruxton seems to attack in the worst possible place- very rarely into the climb or the headwind where you might expect a break to look for an opportunity.
Anyway, as people came in and out, I edged a little closer. Perhaps I could team up with someone for a couple of laps of through and off to keep the pack on their toes.
I approached Skinsuit guy during warm up but he just laughed and said ‘the break never gets away in Cat 4’. Wise words- even if there have been a few exceptions to prove the rule.
Lap three then and I tried my cornering move through the top chicane and moved up to the front train. Just in time to see two guys going well about 50 yards off the front, adhering to the Thruxton ‘always attack in the worst possible place rule’ but still, the gap was slowly creeping out.
So with a rush of blood to the head and the Goal of ticking of another item from the list popping into mind, I decided to go. 900w got me moving and I swept down the sheltered side of the front riders. As I hit the wind, another 1000w got me clear and as I buried myself into the wind and towards the break, 6 and 700 hundred watts flashed up on the Garmin.
Let’s not get too excited, I’m going to have to zoom the Flyby in pretty close but it definitely counts. I made it across to the surprise of the bunch and didn’t bring anyone with me so I’m happy its legit.
Sadly, despite being a gent and rolling straight through for a turn, the effort from the two guys was poor and we got caught by the foot of the climb. Now, if I wanted some training benefit from tonight’s race, this was going to be it. a)Could I hang on to the bunch and b) how quickly could I recover. HR was now 195 and it hasn’t been that for a very long time! This was going to hurt.
Surprisingly, it wasn’t as bad as I expected and I seemed to be floating above the pain rather than wading through it and came through the final chicane not off the back. Sadly, the attacks continued and rest was a little while away but my HR was already coming down and I was safely back on.
By accelerating into and pedalling through the corners again, I was soon in the top third which gave me slipping room when we next took to the climb.
I was actually really pleased with my recovery. One further lap went by and with half a bottle of drink consumed, I was feeling good again.
Three to go then and time to move. Skinsuit guy casually tempo’d down the sheltered side of the bunch and I jumped on. Second wheel, this was a good place to be. I followed casually and was soon on Castelli Kids wheel who was now taking on the work. At the top chicane, I kind of gave away my secret by using my move to bypass them both and soft pedal the front of the race before kicking again to resume my place on a wheel.
I made a bad choice here. I thought Castelli was fading, so I switched to one of the Heart Evolution guys. I figured they would try something, even if just a softener rather than a full-blown lead out. Sadly, he was just out of position and soon started soft pedalling. By this time, Castelli had a train on his wheel and I couldn’t discretely boss my way back in no matter how hard I tried. This meant I took a fair bit of wind when I should have been surfing.
Penultimate climb and a few people attacked for once. This strung it out nicely and my legs felt ok! Into the last lap and a few of the newbies were drilling it. Making up places at the top chicane, I was about third wheel of the bunch I think with a few out in front. I wasn’t sure what I’d have left for a sprint so I started to consider an even longer flier. The pace ramped up and one of the new guys got very excited shouting ‘COME ON!!’ at the top of his voice. We were doing 450w+ so I knew he had a shock coming but I just followed wheels. Into the climb and sure enough, we were swamped by guys going for a medium length flier.
I moved up nicely through the bunch though and could see the top ten just in front- seemingly perfect. With that, one of the new guys stood up without accelerating a little first which meant I had to swerve to avoid him. My momentum was gone but I regrouped quickly and took a great line through the chicane- far better than last week.
I went as deep and hard as I could and at least made over 1000w but I was too far back. I outsprinted some guys but it was obvious there were 20 riders in front so it didn’t mean much.
And that was that. Straight in the car and back to work to check everything was ok.
So one goal achieved, no points as usual, pleased with my fitness, loved playing through the corners at the chicane and well done to Ben who got his Cat 3 points.
He’s also the Cat 4 series points leader (I’m about 12/88 I think) so should scoop some cash.
Well done CH. Those points will come next. But best of all you can see how to use efforts and recover. Soon you'll be off the front and everyone's watching your moves.
Vets V50 race tomorrow as no place in the open 25 I entered. Surrey League RR Sunday 100km and about 2000m of climbing 🙁 , going to die!
Nice one Ch! Hoping to be back on the 18th. Shit day at work took the wind out of my sails!
Hopefully will be fresh from Wallingford crit on the 16th....
@TiRed- Wow! Good luck 🙂 Sounds brutal!
I want to make sure I wring every last ounce of experience out of Cat4. I don't think I'll really get motivation to fight for points until I feel 'ready' for Cat 3.
I certainly have no desire to cling to the back of the Thruxton 2/3 race 😆
Not that one (point) won't be sweet when it comes 🙂
@Leigh- Cheers!
That Wallingford Crit sounds fun but is fully booked or I'd have joined you 🙁
Remind me on here about it and I'll ride down and cheer you on!
Thanks for the write up @crosshair - great to get a sense of what it's like in the mix
Took me 38 races to acquire my Cat 3. My Cat 2 may take even longer! Obviously a sprint would really help. Being known as a safe wheel and a good racer is what matters. Having started rather late, my racing ambitions are to be a helpful team member for my clubmates.
Nice write up CH!
Those points are yours should you want them, you know what to do to get them easily 🙂
@TiRed - it took me 8, although one was a write off as I punctured which ruined my game. I remember you kindly offering to help me get back on to the group - my first time ever rejoining! Highest I've ever placed at Hillingdon is 6th!
I'm commuting to work at the moment - definitely getting my group riding skills in!!! I'll share a video later. It's weird as I know I'm going to get knocked off, obviously I'm trying all I can to prevent it, but at the same time I know it's inevitable - just like crit racing! 😆
I'm gonna freshen things up this week. Entered the 3/4 @ Hillingdon 🙂
Great, mixed with the 3's there's no pressure for you to 'do' anything. Just sit in the pack and unleash those watts in the last 200m! 😀