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Weeksy- sorry to be harsh but we are built like houses. Seeing as 80% of all cycling effort is used shifting air out of the way- it's no wonder we struggle compared to guys with more natural attributes ticked. Ignore the pros- think of all the quick guys you know. They are either short or very skinny or both right?
I'm gonna sound like our learned friend from the other forum with this one but- I actually only did use 217w (2.5w/kg) to do 25mph in the bunch at Thruxton the other day so 'some people are just bloody efficient' would be a better phrase perhaps 😉 I'm sure Tomvet would love some of your raw Watts 😉
Well done though Tomvet! Sounds like a fun race and a great performance! Hopefully race together again this year? Do Outdoor traders do an Autumn series? What's MK like?
Nath- you seem to have a highly ordered daily structure of Zwift racing 😆
I was consenting hard on doing as little as possible for as long as I could. Would love a power meter to quantify what I am doing but that's a pipe dream at the moment.
Weeksy- sorry to be harsh but we are built like houses. Seeing as 80% of all cycling effort is used shifting air out of the way- it's no wonder we struggle compared to guys with more natural attributes ticked
Oh don't get me wrong, i totally get why i'm slow, if i were 20kg less i think i'd even hold on longer than 3 laps at Abingdon (assuming i retained my power). I just find it weird sometimes how some people can train a chunk less that others but still be crazy quick. My old neighbour was brilliant at it.. he'd have 2 months off the bike and still be a beast when he came out.
CH am I included in your analysis? I wouldn't put me as short or skinny 😆
Zwift racing is hardly a structured plan compared with your z2/3 tempo sprints backwards hillly semi anaerobic intervals..
LOL my legs weigh more than you do Nath !
Nath- my right thigh is bigger than your waist 😆
Seeing as 80% of all cycling effort is used shifting air out of the way- it's no wonder we struggle compared to guys with more natural attributes ticked.
Crosshair, just look at our stats from the NRC 50 mile training loop we did on Sunday. No big hills so weight not much of an issue. Me avg 216 watts, you avg 257 watts. And I think I spent quite a bit more time on the front than you did 😉
If I was you I'd just nudge my position to be a little longer and lower, nothing dramatic, just a few millimeters every few weeks. Over time it will make a big difference.
Crosshair, just look at our stats from the NRC 50 mile training loop we did on Sunday. Me avg 216 watts, you avg 256 watts. And I think I spent quite a bit more time on the front than you didIf I was you I'd just nudge my position to be a little longer and lower, nothing dramatic, just a few millimeters every few weeks. Over time it will make a big difference.
Bending his elbows would be a good start.
Every single photo from races they are fully locked out to make the biggest air brake possible 😛
Bending his elbows would be a good start.
😀
Can't say I'm much better to be honest...
Or am I Mrblobby? You're probably the person I've raced side by side with the most on here 😆
(Sitting the in the bunch (CH) and at the back chatting (TiRed) are probably not the best examples of my aeroness lol)
Or am I Mrblobby? You're probably the person I've raced side by side with the most on here
Well it was only the once and some time ago! I don't recall thinking your position on the bike was poor so it was probably pretty good 🙂
I'll take that 😆
I must join one of these Sunday runs with you guys, sound fun.
MrB, I thought I rode quite aero on Sunday- I had to when you were drilling it down the A4 😆
The CX bike is set up quite relaxed compared to the Race bike. CX drops are the same height as the race bike hoods.
I was only commenting elsewhere how much I thought my position had improved compared to my early races. I can feel a lot less weight through my hands in all positions now.
I know you were on your commuter-a-like mudguarded up stealth machine but I wish I'd taken my race bike- I may have kept contact up that 10min climb then. My Scott with lights, pouches, pump etc is close to 12kg 😮
I must join one of these Sunday runs with you guys, sound fun.
It's still a disorganised social ride and not really a proper fast chain gang. A couple of nearby clubs have evening rides that are proper race training rides that you'll likely enjoy more (though most are unofficial affairs.) I'd like to try and get a local one going but have too much going on to be able to commit to a specific evening.
I know you were on your commuter-a-like mudguarded up stealth machine
🙂 I'd even had to dig out my very un-aero winter kit for that morning!
I may have kept contact up that 10min climb then
There was a climb? 😉
Btw, anything going on at Hillingdon this weekend? Need some race miles.
Stop now- what little bit of confidence I had is ebbing away 😆
There's some fast guys on that ride so I've been pleased to keep up :p
I'm not racing this weekend but may do the club run.....
Big Events are at Hogs Hill if you want to ride some more non-hills 😀
Ugh be about 5 hours driving, don't have the time.
Annoying lack of racing at the moment. Had to pull out of last weekend's 50 due to injury. Last night's was cancelled due to thunderstorm. Saturday's planned is cancelled due to roadworks. And next Saturday's planned race has been cancelled too 😡
First RR for me today, round 2 of the Oxfordshire league. 4 and a bit laps for some, 1 for me!
I floated around the back as I figured most others would know what they were doing. Then after a quick speed up over a rise into a sharp descent the pack started to split a bit, a few wobbles/ punctures in front spread the back out a bit more, then I was left a little back with 3 or 4 others. We got about 30m off the back then they accelerated around a bend and didn't see the pack again! I powered on for a minute or 2 in a wasted effort then was by myself...caught a couple of guys limping back with punctures and that was my day...
Despite only making around 20% of the race, I quite enjoyed it...
Oh, forgot to ask, any top tips for 2 weeks to make improvements??
I guess I can't train for being comfortable in the bunch, I'd settle for being 10kg lighter though...
Get out on some group rides? 2 weeks isn't long to make too much fitness headway but sitting on a wheel for a few hours a week will help you feel more comfortable on race day I reckon...
Assuming you are a 4th cat, I'd ride a couple of circuit races. This will improve your bunch riding and fitness. Tuesday evenings at Hillingdon are good for this because the circuit has no "crit corners" to break up the bunch.
First rule of road racing is DONT SIT AT THE BACK! Try and stay top third. Easier said than done, I know. Road race circuits will have three or four left hand corners, some of which require slowing to take safely. The riders on the front have a better line choice and don't need to slow so much. The riders at the back must brake going in and must accelerate harder on exit. This is a recipe for getting tired and getting dropped. Ask me how I know 😉
If there is a climb, and I presume you are no climber, try and work your way up nearer the front before the climb, and expect to be passed during the climb. All you need to do is hang on once at the top.
Set some realistic objectives: finishing in the group is no mean feat and my objective for 2/3 road races. Road races expose weaknesses much more easily than circuit races on fast circuits (like Hillingdon and Abingdon). Good luck!
TiRed, as usual, thanks for the advice. I missed the Abingdon winter series, which would have been invaluable, getting in an hour or so of TTT practice a week, always room for another I guess! Might just get back on trainerroad next week too...
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Most aero photo yet I reckon 😆
Nicely following a wheel there CH 😉
Just getting back on after lapping the field right CH? 😆
What was it that TiRed had in bold a couple of posts up ?? 
Nathing like a pro there CH!
Lol! Thruxton is different. The bunch is twice or three times as wide as Hillingdon so the draft is huge.
I used about 50w less than usual so it's definitely the place for Nathing 😆
Random BC question....my events page always comes up with an error so I can't see what upcoming events I have entered. Does this happen to anyone else or just me...?
Thanks!
I find the page a bit hit and miss too. Some of it is surprisingly functional then other bits are rubbish.
I tend to click the favourite 'star' next to each event I've entered to turn it gold. Then it will appear on 'My Calendar'.
Cheers crosshair, will give that a try!
And you thought there was nothing left to write about another dull 23 mile sprint out at Thruxton right? 😆 Ah well, here goes..
It’s fair to say I was cooked coming into today’s race. I had an awful club run on Sunday where the lack of stocky wheels to follow and general head-windery combined with an awfully noisy drivetrain to sap my watts at every turn.
I had a gang of volunteers at work today so wanted to get lots done but I chose the easier more technical jobs to try and stay fresh for this evening. At least that’s my justification for letting a couple of 70 year olds loose with the sledge hammer whilst I twiddled electric fence wire together purposefully!
I got home at 15:00 to sort out the dogs etc and promptly fell fast asleep on the sofa. I woke up to a noisy excited 4-year-old leaping all over me and then suddenly realised I was heading towards being late!
Feeling groggier than ever, I actually made it there just 10minutes later than usual and still way too early.
The plan for this evening was clear in my mind. Push as gently as possible on the pedals for 50 minutes then SPRINT!!
I didn’t even bother with much of a warm up. A quick three miles was enough to check my new carbon saddle (courtesy of the frame supplier to make up for excess customs charges) didn’t slice off anything important down below. The other was in the stacker box just in case but I quite like the new one.
I ditched my Red Bull from my pre-race load and just had a Lucozade sport an hour before and a Galaxy Caramel to try and kick start some life.
A caffeine gel on the line and we were ready to race!
Lap one was suitably sedate but two was a bit fruitier. There were half a dozen break attempts today but everything was left to hang about 100m off of the front and it would soon come back together.
Nathing the edges and ebbing flowing between mid-pack and the very back, I was starting to wake up and my legs felt ok! I decided to ignore everything else and just focus on forward vision tonight. Keeping my eyes well up and responding to what the guy 10 wheels in front were doing meant I had to accelerate or brake very little.
The race absolutely flew by! It went so quickly, before I knew it, we were being lapped by the big boys. But then, like when the 4’s lap the ladies at the IWS at Hillingdon, they just seemed to stop! So we were stuck on the wheel of the motorbike for pretty much two laps.
On the 7thlap, as we came up the hill and past the finishing straight, I pushed a bit harder, took a bit of wind and drifted forwards.
And there was a gap! Probably the biggest gap of the race! Ten guys had floated off of the front behind the motorbike in blissful ignorance and the bunch was actually in danger of sprinting out for no points!
For a very brief moment, my by now buzzing brain thought about sprinting across and shouting GOGOGO! to the accidental break! We were told ten laps so I assumed we had three left so discretion was the better part of valour. As it was, they knocked off a lap in the dulling light and there were in fact only 1 ¾ laps left at that point. Would it have worked? I don’t know but it would have been more fun!!
Anyway, still nobody was closing it and a few guys worrying about their plan (the same one we all had of course) started shouting. But nothing happened.
So I upped the watts and bridged across and whilst I towed everyone with me, I did get a few pats and ‘thanks’ at the end so it was noticed.
So… back together and there’s the bell! I took some wind and moved up down the start finish straight. I could have taken my momentum almost to the front but I consciously thought “No, that’ll do Pig, that’ll do!” and rolled in to mid pack. Now- recover!!
As we went through the fast sweeping corners before the downhill, shouting erupted from the apex and bikes veered wildly. Because I was looking so far ahead, my instinct was to steer away from what looked like an inevitable crash and I bumped into an Outdoor Traders guy to my left. Both on the drops, it was arm to arm and I instantly apologised- should know better than that!! He was cool though and said not to worry- he had thought the exact same thing was about to happen.
Right, into the final downhill where I wasted watts last week and I was hyper aware. Aware enough to have an epiphany in fact! As one of the teams shouted “UPUPUPUPUPUP!!!!” on the front and the whole pack surged for the line, I realised I was suddenly full of adrenaline! So my RPE had in fact plummeted from say 8 to like 4. I felt like I was floating but a quick look down and I realised I was pushing 460w! Even more than last weeks failed attempt.
So I soft pedalled. Not literally of course, but relative to what I was doing. And the bunch didn’t vanish away from me. We were heading up the hill now and I’d noticed that earlier it was taking a serious effort to go up regardless- let alone on the final lap. Not yet! Not yet! Not yet!
Then some lunatic came flying past in a kind of aero sprint, head down and arse up and nearly ran into the back of someone. He actually regrouped and did the same again somehow and as we rounded the second part of the chicane, he came over the treacherous looking chevrons and barrelled straight in front of me and nearly wiped out the two guys in front.
That pretty much spoilt my finish as my over-active imagination couldn’t see a good ending. Miraculously, they hadn’t crashed and I shook myself back into action with a 900-odd watt punt and made up a few places.
So in conclusion- plan was pretty much executed to perfection but I rolled the dice on the chicane and was slightly out of luck.
For Weeksy’s benefit- my friend Ben from NRC rode a very smart race again. He stayed in the front 10 all the time and finished either 10th or 11th I reckon. Should I have marked him? Not sure- will look at his power and decide….
Hmmm. I probably should have sat on Ben's wheel all race. I'm not sure what MrB thinks but I reckon we are within a kg or two of each other and I averaged 236/274 and he averaged 242/271 so very very similar despite our different positioning.
His HR was higher at 165 to my 157 and our Max's were both 190.
Next week's game plan 😀
Nice one CH. And top write-up - I felt I was living that. 8)
Nice write up CH as always.
Sounds like a good race, next weeks dice roll could be it!?
Well I'm tempted to just follow Ben now of course! The thing is, it's such a close match in terms of ability, there are very few options available to any of us.
I have literally zero leverage on the race. I cannot ride fast enough solo to even help in a break and my 3-4 minute power isn't strong enough to go early down the hill.
So I just have to sit in and hope a line opens up in front of me.
I averaged 26mph for the final minute instead of 24, so despite the hold up, I was a lot stronger in the finale. Just need to keep trying I guess.
A wonderful week of R+R awaits so hopefully I'll be extra fresh next week too....
So, according to his Strava- Ben got a well deserved point. But I was literally 1 second behind 😮
And I lost that second on the chicane where I said 🙁
Hopefully this link works... https://www.strava.com/segments/12106042/compare/MjQyNzI5MzE0MTIsMjQyNzYyNjE1NDA=
And I was going faster than him by the end so who knows!!! That was soooooo close!!
Been faffing around with my seat height, feels better now and so far feel able to stick a little bit more power down...
Excuse the shoulder marker (and tan lines), shifted when I sat on the bike haha
To me. you look like you're right on the edge of losing control of your knee at the bottom of the downstroke. But see how you get on and beware of any pain.
Any tips for my first road race, doing the Banbury star race, 45 miles with cats 3's and 4's, route takes in a half mile climb averaging 10% so I think the whole race tends to blow up into groups though I imagine I am likely to be TT'ing my way round at the back. How does it work with junctions and cars ect and can I get a bottle passed to me from the road side?
I managed an hour season yesterday with no knee pain. Tonight I am racing in a zwift competition (hilly route) so I guess that's the test!!
I did manage 150rpm, ERG mode on Zwift was a pain so I had to really get the legs spinning to get up to the specified power: https://www.strava.com/activities/992113464
Tom, never done a real road race but from the crits I'd try and stay top 1/3 and hide from any wind.
Will do, but there's no hiding on the hill when the gradient pitches up to 15% in places
Well so much for my newfound situational awareness 😆
Turns out Thruxton was won by a solo break away from 14 miles out 😮
Turns out Thruxton was won by a solo break away from 14 miles out
It's probably quite a good idea going quite early at a Thruxton cat 4 while the people who fancy their chances lurk at the back where it's almost impossible to spot someone sneaking off the front.
... if you know you have the FTP of a Cat 2 / 3.It's probably quite a good idea going quite early at a Thruxton cat 4
You'd have suck with him easy MrB- he was only averaging 25.4mph 😆