[Closed] So – I broke my Jones Spaceframe part 2

What happened with the broken fork?

46 pages, 13 bannings, 3 flounces.

Sorry to disappoint you fellow members but this is in my opinion a total rip off

Many other brands wouldn’t even offer 10% off on an 8 year old frame. What were you hoping he would offer?

Get it repaired by someone else?

IIRC FRC had to buy a new fork. And recently he broke that one hitting a tree...

I hoped he would weld it himself and I would pay for transport. He is still a builder.

What a crap attitude. I wouldn’t expect it to be repaired for free necessarily but you would think he could at least be nice, apologise and if he genuinely didn’t have time to fix it explain why he wasn’t able to.

But for such extraordinary expensive frames I would expect him to find time to repair previous customers  frames. He’s got time to make new ones, repairing one can’t take as long as building a new one which he is quite happy to sell to the OP.

Too many people seem to think that Ti will last forever. There are so many stories of cracked Ti frames that I'd actually say it often has a shorter lifespan than other frame materials.

The 10% off deal does sound a bit derisory. Compare this with some UK steel framebuilders who will fix your frame no matter what.

I even offered to pay for it and let him take the time for it but no just the door in my face.

“I hoped he would weld it himself and I would pay for transport. He is still a builder.”

Is he? He makes the prototypes but aren’t all the frames now made in Taiwan? And if you’re in the UK, won’t shipping back and forth cost more than a frame repair?

I’ve just looked through the warranty pages of a Jones bike manual. Blimey. The way you are allowed to ride each type of bike and still be covered by the warranty is so specific and detailed there’s so many holes they can wiggle through to avoid honouring the warranty.

Im not their sort of customer so it doesn’t matter to much to him but it put me off buying one for sure.

I hoped he would weld it himself

He can't because...

He has no time and complains that he is too busy too ride!

So....

Get it repaired by someone else?

And move on, 8yrs isn't bad for ti frame. A bit dissapointing maybe, but far from unusual.

Many other brands wouldn’t even offer 10% off on an 8 year old frame.

And many offer a lifetime warranty. I guess there's an expectation that the more you pay, the better the service.

Bad luck...

When buying the frames is there any information on warranty or on his website, etc? I guess it's nice to think you'd get over 8 years from a silly expensive frame or a cheaper replacement but I can see why that's not the case. Presumably the flex / shock absorbing design of the frame means that fatigue life is always going to be finite.

The off hand treatment is not great but then in reality people buy into the bearded man in a shack image so I'm not sure that less than perfect customer relations is such a surprise.

As suggested I think your best bet it getting it repaired in the UK if that can be done in a cost effective way

8yrs isn’t bad for ti frame

😳

8 yrs is a good stint I reckon.

Shame he won’t fix it, plenty of other frame builders that will though.

Many other brands wouldn’t even offer 10% off on an 8 year old frame.

And many offer a lifetime warranty. I guess there’s an expectation that the more you pay, the better the service.

Ha!

Even On One offerred a 10% discount on a new frame when my mate's battered and abused 8  year old steel 456 had rusted and snapped at the chainstay.He didn't have to send itback either they just accepted what he said over the phone.

Ti frames crack. All this frame for life stuff is crap atmo.

Also if its cracked at the seatube, its not exactly an easy(cheap) repair, you can't exactly just weld the crack.

Clearly not interested in your future custom.  Must be doing okay.  Move on, get it fixed by someone else, and don't buy from him again.

Planet X took my 8 year old cracked Titanium frame back this year and got it repaired without any questions - came back looking like new. They aren't exactly a premium brand....

This is the reason I sold my Ti spaceframe.

I had already cracked the frame and fork and had them replaced once each.

After that I just sold it to someone who was a little gentler with his riding.

I'd say you've done well to get eight years out of it.

Every Ti frame I've ever owned bar one has cracked.

I'm sure that one would also have broken if I'd kept it longer.

For comparison

WARRANTY CONDITIONS
Article 1 – Warranty Period

1.1 Van Nicholas will replace (not repair) any Titanium frame that fails due to manufacturer defects in materials or workmanship for the lifetime of the frame. Every bicycle has a limited life, the so-called useable life-cycle. The duration of the useable life-cycle of bicycles depends on the type of frame, the way in which and the circumstances under which the bicycle is ridden and the care/maintenance the bicycle receives. The lifetime guarantee period is established on the basis of the duration of the useable life cycle of the bicycle. Van Nicholas sets the lifetime of their frames at an average of 25 years.

'average'?

Shame it wasn’t designed by Brant.

You could have sold it on, and then later got a full refund in cash 👍

I had an email recently from Stanton saying that I have a lifetime warranty on my frame. It's steel though.

Shame it wasn’t designed by Brant.

You could have sold it on, and then later got a full refund in cash

You need to moan about for a decade before that happens, and he's only just started.

Think of it as a blessing, a chance to buy a frame that's not ugly as ****.

By way of contrast, Lynskey often get slated on here, but when my Ragley Ti cracked at the downtube just below the headtube junction it was fixed and then upgraded by them under their lifetime warranty and Mark Lynskey took the time to explain to me why it had failed at that point.

Also, somewhere in the middle of the process, I talked to the guys at Enigma about the possibility of having the frame repaired in the UK. I don't know if they have the capacity to repair third party frames, but might, at least, be worth an e-mail if you're interested in getting it fixed over here.

I read recently on a similar sort of thread that Enigma were dead busy and were only looking a repairs/adaptations to frames they'd built.

If you want to keep your frame & want it repaired, i believe this is a Jones frame that TJD repaired in the summer:

View this post on Instagram

check out his Instagram for other nifty work in the magic metal.

Joop

If you're intersted in a 26er ti spaceframe and truss fork let me know. It was built by Jeff and I seem to remember has a lifetime warranty though that may just be in an email to me...

I run it as 26x2.4 at the back, 27.5x3 at the front

12 years old though... no signs of failure yet!

That's a bit poor considering the cost of a Jones.

Lifetime* warranty seems to be a great get out clause for many companies.

If it was mine, I'd wrap around the offending crack with a horrible mess of carbon, resin and sellotape, then continue riding it.  A bit like those bamboo bikes.

Plenty of seatpost insertion obvs.

*Lifetime of some unspecified thing, just not your actual lifetime.  A frog maybe.

OP, I feel your pain and would be bugged off myself if that happened. It's one of the reasons why I eventually opted for a steel jones.

I did however get a Ti custom Stooge frame made which takes 120mm bouncy forks in 650B+ format as I wanted something for ragging about the place as opposed to being left behind on the Jones when things got too rough. If I get 8 years out of it I'll be happy. My logic is...how far has bike design moved in the last 8? I suspect geo and design will have moved on and I'll be hankering after whatever the latest 'snake oil' is.

I'll keep the Jones though as it's just good at everything. In saying that I wanted to try it in 'plus' format so I bought an old battered SH steel jones diamond and had the stays flattened / widened / crimped with a specific stay crimping tool to accept 650bx3 tyres. It's lasted a couple of years now and I've taken it everywhere on some very rough & long fully laden bike packing routes...AND I use it everyday as a single speed commute bike.

My logic is simple, if the steel stays crack I'll get new stays made.

On a slight aside, I'm not 100% convinced bikes which are 2-3lbs lighter than the rest, result in a significant advantage unless you're Sir Brad or Sir Hoy. Sure...Ti is nice to look at and own and you don't really have to think about protecting paint chips etc but as a way of loosing weight....if I really thought it mattered, I'd lose some of the excess weight around my midriff...it's free too!

Took long to figure out how to weld high quality aluminium in the biking industry...

Ti : maybe stuff the aircraft guys should stick to? Ti is great material - but the hell difficult to make parts from.

Lifetime warranty: in the end they always screw you.

Too bad!

So I called Jeff and explain him the problem and send him a picture of my frame. He answers that he can’t do anything about it, there is no warranty and even if I offer to pay for transport he refuses to fix it:

thats a bit shoddy.

i cracked my Pegoretti, Dario (RIP) just said “put in a box and send to me” charged me for a repaint on the repair which i didn’t have  problem with at all. frame was 12 years old.

thats what ‘warranty’ should mean with a small niche high end builder

On my 'third time lucky' Van Nicholas Tuareg.

They changed the other two without any hassle and a super quick turnaround.

The last one was a 650b frame ,so the trails are now very much alive.

Great service ,I would buy another frame from V N in a blink.

Some Ti frames last for ever,some don't.

Lifetime usually just means the warranty (for the original owner)

Ti : maybe stuff the aircraft guys should stick to? Ti is great material – but the hell difficult to make parts from.

To be fair, people have been building titanium frames for donkey's years now. There's no mystery over how to weld ti, it's just a more exacting process than steel welding, but if you buy a ti frame with any level of background knowledge, you'll know that and also that while they have decent resistance to fatigue, they will still break, particularly if the design is poor. On the plus side, ti is repairable by a welder with the relevant skills, it's just harder to find one than it would be with an equivalent steel frame.

Incidentally, repairing alloy frames which crack is far more problematic because of the need to heat treat the welded area after repair, but for some reason you rarely find threads bashing alloy frames for either their lack of fatigue resistance or repairability, presumably because they're relatively cheap.

8 yrs is a good stint I reckon.

At that price, it's a pile of croc IMO

I read recently on a similar sort of thread that Enigma were dead busy and were only looking a repairs/adaptations to frames they’d built.

Aye, that's the reply I got from them when I enquired recently about a cracked (non-Enigma) frame. Just to be clear, I'm not complaining about that at all, good on them for doing well with a full order book but if you need repair I'd look elsewhere.

Good to see you found your way to the bike forum after hiding in the classified section for so long.

Was this a new frame or s/h? Just get it repaired elsewhere, you're not going to get anywhere with  trying to get it repaired with Jeff

Did you buy it from/through me? If that’s the case then I’d like to explore contributing to the cost of getting it fixed locally. I’m not technical and perhaps it’s not possible/realistic but I do look to support/assist customers (and fellow Jones riders) when I can.

By the by… my (original) Ti Jones is still going strong – not been ridden recently and when I did ride it I was 60kg and notoriously jey with my riding so perhaps not a good comparison. These things happen. Email me if you think I can help. Thanks.

Biff

Ted James would probably repair it for you, the prices are Jones stuff is a joke now, £4000 for a frame made in taiwan is madness

Mark Lynskey took the time to explain to me why it had failed at that point.

TBF, that's just Mark Lynskeys out-of-office email.

I had a similar response from Jeff and team when I found a chainstay crack on my spaceframe, bit of a shame but it seems like Jones Bikes have grown a lot recently.

In the end I got it welded by Enigma for £90, I've ridden it pretty hard since then and it's held up fine. There were a few other people that said they could weld it, message me if you want and I'll make a list.

Lifetime* warranty

Yeah I don't get why people do that when, in practice, only a tiny proportion of frames will be used for long enough that some "average use for 25 years" bollocks would make any difference.

IME (and that of a few mates), ti just doesn't last! Oddly, alu frames if well made last best (if they're well designed and built, obvs), although it makes sense when you consider what the majority of most aircraft have been made of for >50 years.