[Closed] So how would you improve Critical Mass?

I haven't read the whole thread but

I have. And there's a lot of ignorant, narrowminded prejudice on this forum, is all I can say.

You asked for comments and suggestions. Some as you would always expect are pretty useless, most IMO have been people trying to say that they don't think CM is the best way to achieve something.

In fairness, most of them have never been on or even witnessed a London CM ride, so forgive me for discounting their ignorant and prejudiced comments.

Personaly, I am not interested in CM as a political force, because it's not actually meant to be that, but as a fun bike ride with other like-minded people. to that end, I personally found Friday's ride to be a great success.

Nice, are you going to do the murdering then big man?

No I will do it from orbit. I shall nuke central London.

It also happens that I strongly believe in the nuclear annihilation of central London.

I strongly believe in the murder of all CM attendees.

And on that note, I think there's sadly no point in continuing this discussion, as some people clearly cannot control themselves from resorting to pathetic abuse.

Thanks to those who did make positive contributions, however.

pathetic

I certainly agree it is rather pathetic.

you're welcome 😉

so forgive me for discounting [s]their ignorant and prejudiced comments[/s] any opinion I don't agree with.

FTFY. 🙂

There have also been suggestions that tactics designed to cause [s]harm[/s] [u]disruption[/u] to [s]riders[/s] [u]selfish road-hogs[/u] is used, through the use of 'carpet tacks'.

www.carpet-tack-criticalmass.co.uk

Personally I think that motorists are slowly becoming more accepting of cyclists on the road, particularly at peak hours. Critical mass arrives like a whirlwind with the bells, hooters, whistles, 80 people riding three abreast in a city centre and in 60 minutes it undoes all this good feeling so every cyclist just goes back to being a menance.

In the last ten years the road infrastructure has been upgraded so much to support sfaer cycling on the roads that "die-ins" and sit down protets etc, hte common traits of the critical mass, are counter productive to cyclists now.

If you want to be treated like traffic, you behave like traffic.

What I'm absolutely baffled by is why on earth, if you wanted to 'celebrate cycling', you'd pick the streets of the most congested city in the country to do it?

I prefer this type of thing myself...

[img] [/img]

Takes all sorts I suppose. Whatever floats your boat 😀

Thanks, I did. For me, CM is simply about getting together with other like-minded people to have a fun, safe and relaxing bike ride in the city. Which I, and hundreds of others, did. To my mind, CM as an idea is not about any political agenda, regardless of those who think it is.

Surely you can do that at any time? I used to commute in London every day and once attended a Critical Mass ride. The reason I never returned was that it did not seem to do anything constructive. It purported to campaign for the rights of cyclists, but did so by willfully obstructing traffic and breaking road rules - not actions which are likely to result in a positive outcome for anyone. It's great that many people are involved in other action groups which genuinely contribute to improving cycling conditions. So far as I can see - CM does not do that. You've received a number of suggestions as to how it could be improved - though seem to choose to ignore them. That makes me wonder who's being blinkered.

positive contribution = anyone who echoes precisely my opinion

pathetic abuse = anyone/anything else

😆

positive contribution = anyone who echoes precisely my opinion

pathetic abuse = anyone/anything else

www.binnerstshirts.com

If you want to be treated like traffic, you behave like traffic.

I was involved with organising a "cycle carnival" in Bristol a month or so ago, on a Sunday afternoon, with a rolling road closure done by marshalls in hi-viz, holding signs saying "Thanks for your patience". Lots of families out, fancy dress, colourful decorated bikes. Clearly not members of the Black Bloc.

Sad to say that the response of a few drivers was unbelievable - overtaking at 30 mph, revving engines aggressively and inching towards the marshalls who were trying to get everyone across junctions safely. So I'm not sure I agree that if you behave respectfully, everyone will reciprocate. It's highly unlikely that these people had just had run-ins with Critical Mass, it's been dropping off in Bristol to the point where it's practically single attendance figures.

I prefer this type of thing myself...

Well done Binners, that is possibly the bleakest picture I've ever seen, complete with what looks like a dead homeless person in the background.

Well done Binners, that is possibly the bleakest picture I've ever seen, complete with what looks like a dead homeless person in the background.

It's grim up North, you know.

OK, I’ve read most of this thread and have also ridden a CM or 2, though admittedly not for a while. You’ve asked for some constructive ideas on how to improve it and I intend to provide some, I’m not trying to insult you or CM in general but please remember that whilst my views may not be the same as yours that does not make them inherently wrong (or indeed right).

1. Decide your aim or a goal. This is the big thing in my opinion. Decide what CM is trying to achieve and make sure this is published on your website and perhaps in the press as well. Without this you risk being accused of the proverbial rebels without a cause. With a clear goal you have some additional credibility, perhaps that you can use to lobby people to get to the goal.
2. In relation to the above, decide if you are an organisation that has a goal or if you’re a bunch of cyclists out on a ride. If the former, see point 1, get a leadership/organisation function in place and build from there. If the latter, stop trying to push any ideas/goals to a wider populous and just say you are a bunch of people riding bikes.
3. Reassess the time and day of your ride. Unless your goal is to cause maximum disruption on a Friday night (and I accept it may well be) may I suggest that Friday evening is not the best time for the ride. You said 200 people were at the last one, pretty poor for a city with a population of 8 million people. Would you have got more if it was over the weekend? With a pre-planned route? On closed roads perhaps?
4. Accept that the cars aren’t going anywhere. Not in the near future anyway, so instead of treating them as the enemy treat them as a group you have to work with, a group who share the same road space as cyclists and perhaps need a little education on cycling. You need them on your side (or at least in a place where they can listen to you), to do that you need to engage them and telling them they are selfish for driving is not the way to do it.
5. You’ll hate this but look at SkyRide for ideas. A friendly, well organised ride and closed roads is IMO a brilliant to get people into cycling (assuming that is part of your goal), couple with the fact that in London you don’t even need to own a bike as there are Boris Bikes you are in a great position to do something positive.
6. Try to remove or at least control the small element who in for a protest and to cause a bit of havoc, irrelevant of what the protest is about. You know they are there, as do I, if you want to bring a more positive light to the rides then they need to be reined in. If you think they are a key element of the “ethos” or CM then fine, bring them to the fore but accept that by doing this you will lessen the power of the protest. This means that, rightly or wrongly, your legitimacy and your claim to represent cyclists in general will be diminished.

Please feel free to flame at your leisure.

positive contribution = anyone who echoes precisely my opinion

pathetic abuse = anyone/anything else

don't take any of it to heart mikeconnor..

this is the standard argument trotted out by the usual suspects when they have decided to aggressively target a particular poster or theme..

sometimes they just need locking in a shed with 40 hungry squirrels

car drivers, of whom the vast majority have other travel options

I did have other options when I resided in London, and initially used them. Sadly they kept going on strike, forcing me to buy a car (too far to ride).

Edit: was typing out a response, but this just about covers it:

It's great that many people are involved in other action groups which genuinely contribute to improving cycling conditions. So far as I can see - CM does not do that. You've received a number of suggestions as to how it could be improved - though seem to choose to ignore them. That makes me wonder who's being blinkered.

Is mike from CM some sort of masochist? He keeps turning up trying to publicise and get support for his revolution from a bunch of cyclists (STW forumites) who evidently think that him and his project are pretty much a big w*nk.

Why does he do it, I wonder?

It would probably help if they got a sense of humor, at least one they could share

If you only wanted opinions on "How to improve Critical Mass" from people who actually participate in Critical Mass rides already

(you seem to dismiss any comments from people that don't attend already as "Ignorant and Prejudiced" )

Then is there not some kind of Critical Mass website/Forum that you could have posted your question on.

Rather than trolling a bunch of people who's opinions you are clearly not the slightest bit interested in listening to 🙄

Interesting videos on the website on page one...seemed to be a few instances of cyclists attempting to pick an argument with taxis by deliberately holding them up while laughing/smirking...if you can distance yourself from them you may improve your image.

Perhaps also ask the videographer not to make a feature of these altercations as it suggests thats one of of your aims. If the videographer disagrees then maybe not post the clip to the home page of the site.

Is mike from CM some sort of masochist? He keeps turning up trying to publicise and get support for his revolution from a bunch of cyclists (STW forumites) who evidently think that him and his project are pretty much a big w*nk.

Ok, one; i am not 'from' CM, and do not represent the ride or anyone else on the ride. That some of you seem to think I am is amusing. I think some of you need a figure to attack, and I accept you are unable to engage in any discussion without resorting to such behaviour.

Two; i'm not trying to get any support; that's entirely up to the individual if they want to come along. The reason I first posted about this issue, and why I joined this forum, was to engage in a discussion to challenge those with ignorant, bigoted and negative views of something very few people on here seem to have any actually experience and knowledge of, certainly not recently anyway. As somebody who has actually attended CM rides more recently than anyone who's yet posted on this issue, I think I probably do have a slightly more informed view of what actually takes place on the rides. again, it's amusing that those who've never even been on a London CM ride, and in some cases don't even live in London, think they somehow are informed and enlightened about such matters. Personally, I would refrain from posting about something I had no knowledge or experience of, for fear of looking ignorant and stupid, but to each their own.

The main point seems to boil down to the fact that some of you percieve CM gives all cyclists a bad name. No-one has actually been able to prove this is the case, and I'm sure if we asked groups who walk in rural areas what they thought of mountain bikers, many would have quite negative views towards cyclists. So, many of your views are based purely on personal opinion, in some cases embarrassingly ill-informed, and in no way is there any real valid consensus here, merely the opinions of a few individuals.

don't take any of it to heart mikeconnor..

this is the standard argument trotted out by the usual suspects when they have decided to aggressively target a particular poster or theme..

Thank you, I won't. It is clear from even a cursory glance at this forum, that there are entrenched regulars who spend night and day on here, and any deviation from their particular view is met with hostility and resentment. Indeed, some are displaying the very antagonism and confrontational behaviour they accuse CM riders of! And those doing so seem to have completely missed that irony. Maybe these individuals should avoid CM altogether, such is their inability to control and moderate their own behaviour.

And one thing I forgot to mention yesterday, with all the accusations that CM does nothing to help promote the image of cycling (accusations that my own experience finds to be untrue), was that London Assembly member Jenny Jones was on the ride. Now those of you who know anything about cycling in London, willknow that Jenny is directly involved in pushing for better provision for cyclists, and indeed comissioned the initial report for TfL which led to the creation of the Bike Hire Scheme (although nicknamed 'Boris bikes', Mr Johnson has actually had very little indeed to do with the development of the scheme). Jenny has also been honoured by the London Cycling Scheme for her services to cycling. Which is probably a fair bit more than most people on here have ever achieved. Many other people who have been on CM rides have similarly campaigned for better provision, through their membership of the CTC, LCC, Sustrans and other organisations.

Which kind of invalidates the argument that CM riders do nothing to promote cycling really.

The reason I first posted about this issue, and why I joined this forum, was to engage in a discussion to challenge those with ignorant, bigoted and negative views of something very few people on here seem to have any actually experience and knowledge of, certainly not recently anyway.

so you joined the forum specifically to defend the CM rides, you talk about them with a perceived authority over everyone else on the forum and yet:

i am not 'from' CM, and do not represent the ride or anyone else on the ride. That some of you seem to think I am is amusing.

can you not see how even if you claim not to represent the CM, you joined specifically to discuss the CM and state you know more about it than any other poster.

you sir, are not helping the cause as far as i can see...mainly cos of your attitude.

mikeconnor - Member
And on that note, I think there's sadly no point in continuing this discussion,

Many other people [s]who have been on CM rides[/s] have similarly campaigned for better provision, through their membership of the CTC, LCC, Sustrans and other organisations.

See? Their effective, productive campaigning wasn't anything to do with CM. Long may that continue, especially as the likes of Sustrans, LCC and the CTC are making a real positive difference for all cyclists.

It is clear from even a cursory glance at this forum, that there are entrenched regulars who spend night and day on here, and any deviation from their particular view is met with hostility and resentment

and yet you still keep coming back for more

Admit it... go on.... you, like TOTALLY heart us, don't you?

Group hug?

So at 4 mins when the Police man asks everyone to stop blocking the road......why no consider the point is made and move on.

Mike, you asked for advice on how it could be improved, you have received some ideas, some sensible, other less so, this happens in life, don't take it to seriously.

The reason you have riled people here is that you seem to have shot down every idea that is not in line with your own. How you are well within your rights to ignore everything written here, that is your choice, but, if you ask for ideas from people then you have to accept that some of those ideas will differ from yours.

I think the main thing to come from this is that people don't have a clear view on what CM stands for and what you are trying to achieve. You may know this but if the wider public don't it will affect how you are perceived. Once people know what you are trying to do you will find that people are more constructive and will listen to you a little more.

Personally, I would refrain from posting about something I had no knowledge or experience of, for fear of looking ignorant and stupid, but to each their own.

Actually.... thinking about it.... there's no future for you here 😆

Mike, you asked for advice on how it could be improved, you have received some ideas, some sensible, other less so, this happens in life, don't take it to seriously.

The reason you have riled people here is that you seem to have shot down every idea that is not in line with your own. How you are well within your rights to ignore everything written here, that is your choice, but, if you ask for ideas from people then you have to accept that some of those ideas will differ from yours.

I think the main thing to come from this is that people don't have a clear view on what CM stands for and what you are trying to achieve. You may know this but if the wider public don't it will affect how you are perceived. Once people know what you are trying to do you will find that people are more constructive and will listen to you a little more.

+1

you're worse than the people you're describing here:

any deviation from their particular view is met with hostility and resentment. Indeed, some are displaying the very antagonism and confrontational behaviour they accuse CM riders of

relax, its nearly christmas!

The reason I first posted about this issue, and why I joined this forum, was to engage in a discussion to challenge those with ignorant, bigoted and negative views of something very few people on here seem to have any actually experience and knowledge of, certainly not recently anyway. As somebody who has actually attended CM rides more recently than anyone who's yet posted on this issue, I think I probably do have a slightly more informed view of what actually takes place on the rides. again, it's amusing that those who've never even been on a London CM ride, and in some cases don't even live in London, think they somehow are informed and enlightened about such matters.

Wow, you obviously have a different idea of engaging in discussion to most of us then.
I was always of the opinion that engaging in discussion would involve there being two or more parties who listen to and consider each others viewpoints, your understanding of it seems to be trying to ram your opinion down other peoples throats and poo-pooing others opinions as being ignorant, bigoted and negative.

Obviously because you've been on CM rides/protests more often and more recently than anyone else here, what you say must be taken as being correct and what we all think must be wrong. Surely you must be getting the idea by now that you're likely to get very little, if any support from this forum.

Personally, I would refrain from posting about something I had no knowledge or experience of, for fear of looking ignorant and stupid, but to each their own.

Instead, why not refrain from posting trolling threads on here about things which have very little support or interest to others here, for fear of looking ignorant and stupid?

I think Mike that you are trying to reason with people who are 'secondary' cyclists in many instances, they are primarily petrol orientated, and do not wish to be in any way associated with those funny looking ones who do not conform.

you only have to see how many motor related threads that are on here,and the language used to see that 'cycling' to quite a few is done in a contained area, and a motor vehicle is essential for that purpose.

so the dynamic is skewed with those priorities, and i don't think you will make any headway with such people, they see it as another person to put in the stocks and throw things at.

Good luck with your campaigns, leave the empty heads to their endless drivel

The main point seems to boil down to the fact that some of you percieve CM gives all cyclists a bad name. No-one has actually been able to prove this is the case

i would like to offer a quote from a couple in a pub last week.

"bloody cyclists, they are all a pain in the arse, did you see those Critical Mass lot the other day, they should be banned from the roads"

to put this into some sort of context, its the heart of the chilterns, my ride to that point had been 80% offroad yet i am still forced to defend my position on the road by informing them that i do have 3rd party insurance in the event of an accident (that scratches their range rovers door)

so am i wrong, in need of a figure to attack, or just incapable of having a discussion?

you sir, are not helping the cause as far as i can see...mainly cos of your attitude.

I can't be held responsible for the way others perceive me, especially if tha tperception iis based on such scant information. And what 'cause' are you talking about? As I've pointed out several times; many people who attend CM rides are active in campaigning for better provision for cyclists in London and throughout the UK. CM gives people a chance to meet up, chat, share ideas and views etc. I certainly learned about other's points of view on the ride.

you talk about them with a perceived authority over everyone else on the forum

I think, that having been on a number of CM rides, including the lates tone, that I have an informed view of them, and in the case of last Friday's ride, probably more than anyone who has posted so far. Would you not agree that actual experience of something trumps mis-informed prejudiced opinion?

So at 4 mins when the Police man asks everyone to stop blocking the road......why no consider the point is made and move on.

I think people did, as much as they were able really given they were at the back of a group hundreds strong. It's not like they were going to get very far, so the police officer was being a bit silly really. And it doesn't help that he calls people 'idiots'. The only idiot I saw in that clip was him.

Interesting that you omitted mentioning the taxi driver earlier in the clip, the one breaking the law by making threatening statements and generally acting in an extremely agressive manner. Now, I saw quite a number of strong, fir peole on the ride, who could quite easily have overpowered him had it come to it, yet he wasn't attacked by anyone. Most folk just seemed to find his behaviour amusing really. He chose to get angey, no one forced him to. As a taxi driver, he should be aware that CM happenes the same time once a month, so perhaps he should look for another job is driving in a congested city is too much for him. I dread to think what he would belike if he were stuck behind a tractor or flock of sheep, on a busy country road.

I think the main thing to come from this is that people don't have a clear view on what CM stands for and what you are trying to achieve

I just go to CM to have a bike ride. I'm not trying to achieve anything other than to have a good time and enjoy myself. Which I did.

I think Mike that you are trying to reason with people who are 'secondary' cyclists in many instances, they are primarily petrol orientated, and do not wish to be in any way associated with those funny looking ones who do not conform.

I don't think it's fair to label everyone on here in this manner? Surely forum mebers are representative of cyclists everywhere, and as individuals, are informed, enlightened authorities on everytghing relating to cycling? Or have I got that wrong?

mikeconnor - Member
And on that note, I think there's sadly no point in continuing this discussion,

Why is the ride organised on Friday night ? Probably the busiest and most stressful transport time period in London ?

Is it to highlight that the transport links are inadequate for cyclists + other road users. there fore your message is for improved cycle links, which I'd be all for, and therefore when the adequate cycle facilities are present u will use them for the ride and stop inconveniencing others ?

Or is it to somehow highlight that excessive travelling for a normal working week is stupid especially in London and people should work/live more local ? Again something I might agree with. But as someone who cycle/train commutes from Berkshire to South Ken themselves I'd say the issues here are far more complicated and critical mass is nt really going to achieve anything.

Also why is the website so bad ?

im pretty sure you dont have any idea what a flook of sheep looks like, so dont come round here with your poorly thought out arguments.

i saw a flock of sheep on my ride this morning, which i think trumps the sheep you were counting to get to sleep last night.

[img] [/img]

I think Mike that you are trying to reason with people who are 'secondary' cyclists in many instances, they are primarily petrol orientated,

I'm sorry, but that is complete and utter cobblers.

Ok Mike.... here's a question for you... seeing as CM is meant to be somehow representative of the cycling fraternity... other than your Friday night 'celebration', how many miles have you put in this week? on the road? Seeing as you're such an authority on the matter!

Just so we can get a direct comparison. I'm up to 75 so far this week. You.....?

I think Mike that you are trying to reason with people who are 'secondary' cyclists in many instances, they are primarily petrol orientated, and do not wish to be in any way associated with those funny looking ones who do not conform.

I just go to CM to have a bike ride. I'm not trying to achieve anything other than to have a good time and enjoy myself. Which I did.

that video, people jumping red lights, stopping in the road, causing other people (inc. pedestrians) to get irate and angry, increasing the general public's dislike of cyclists, wasting police time etc etc etc, please tell me how that is going to improve cycling facilities? totally nonsensical.

I think Mike that you are trying to reason with people who are 'secondary' cyclists in many instances,

I cycle every day, 200 miles a week +, pretty much all on roads at rush hour...