[Closed] So how would you improve Critical Mass?

I don't expect to see many of you at tonight's ride, but for anyone who likes to find out about things rather than basing their judgement on what they read on the internet etc,

So, you want peoples opinion as long as they:

Live in London

Have been on a London CM

don't base their views of things on what they read on the internet, newspapers, magazines and books...

you may want to widen your criteria, as I for one will not be traveling to London to ride my bike, therefore my views on CM are not worthy of being considered by you. Genius.

Mike,
You are arguing against everyone who is stereotyping CM. This is fine, you are right to do that, I do not disagree with you. The stereotypes are clearly a widely held view, even if they are incorrect.

However, you are addressing the image of CM, not whether it is right or wrong to stereotype. Whether the stereotypes are founded or not is irrelevant. They are there, they are what you have to battle.

With this in mind, if you want mass support, you have two options:
- Engage and argue with [i]everyone[/i] that holds these views in the manner that you are in this thread.
- Change your image.

Trying to persuade everyone that they are wrong is unproductive. Work with people. Get an aim. Follow through with the other suggestions on this thread. Pull a stunt where everyone dresses up in all kinds of clothing ranging from suits to ponchos to highlight how this is relevant to [i]all[/i]. Get smiling kids, hand out free hats and ice-creams.

mikeconnor - Member

.....if there are problems with CM's 'image' then this must be addressed.

So how is a non-organisation with no leader or membership going to agree, let alone implement, any proposed changes to it's 'image' ?

Clean up your image and do something useful like these guys http://lcc.org.uk/pages/about-us.

perhaps organise a lead out ride to the local sky ride instead of a mass blockade of the roads with no aims?

Its doomed to fail, bit like those people who spent months in tents outside a church in London. No clear idea, no clear image, no clear leadership = no result.

When anyone complains about groups of roadies blocking a lane of traffic they get tarred and feathered and told they are in the wrong for being pissed off.

CM do the same thing and CM are in the wrong.

😐

So how is a non-organisation with no leader or membership going to agree, let alone implement, any proposed changes to it's 'image' ?

I mean, if I went around sayin' I was [s]an empereror[/s] a spokesperson for all cyclists just because some moistened bint had lobbed a [s]scimitar[/s] pedal spanner at me they'd put me away!

😉

The question

So how would you improve Critical Mass?

The answer

imbibe cider through a dog on a piece of string

Until you grasp that it is empathy that is needed rather than confrontation you are part of the problem.

With no proper aim

I've changed my mind. On the other CM thread I defended it and criticised the policing. I've even offered constructive, helpful advice IMHO.
I've now gone from sympathy and mild support of what I thought was a good but muddled cause, to a realisation of it's true nature.

It's become apparent that the actual [b]aims[/b], not just the methods, are the [b]antagonism, confrontation, inconvenience, aggression and division[/b]. That's why it attracts the people it does. The priorities are selfishness and pig-headedness.

improve Critical Mass?

Until you change the time of the ride to something less confrontational, most people will continue to think that you are a basket full of bell ends. Slavery was legal for years so banging on about the police and courts not having an issue with you is bovine shi'ite. If the majority of cyclists think you are all a bunch of doglobbers, what hope do you have for getting respect from a wider audience?

Or in other words......fornicate over yonder.....

Use [url= http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Critical_mass ]plutonium [/url]instead of uranium?

Mike, read what i wrote previously and you'll see I didn't say what your reactionary comment makes clear you think. I told you what I think would work. I didn't comment on the rights or wrongs of that.As i said, it's easy to marginalise people that arsnt considered mainstream or normal. I didn't say that that was a goos thing, only that that's how things are.

fwiw though your persona on here is certainly doing nothing to make me thinkthat my experiences or views of CM aren't right...

Is mikeconnor Elfnsafety's new login?

TJ's more likely

composite - Member

When anyone complains about groups of roadies blocking a lane of traffic they get tarred and feathered and told they are in the wrong for being pissed off.

CM do the same thing and CM are in the wrong.

Poke the badger with a spoon.

STWers implode and get themselves banned on a regular basis arguing with each other!

quite often for arguing about correct arguing technique

EDIT: quite often for arguing about the correct way to argue about correct arguing technique..

yunki
Shut your festering gob, you tit! Your type really makes me puke, you vacuous, coffee-nosed, maloderous, pervert!!! 😉

Listen, I came here for an argument!

Finally a thread Im ostensibly qualified to post on!

Thanks to the kind courtesy of mikeconnor, as someone who has actually ridden a London CM my thoughts actually count. Which is more than can be said of you hopeful northern trouble makers (*looks sternly at the bin-diving one*)

I confess it has been over 10 years I think since I last rode the London CM. And it had it's fair share of crusties back then too. It was a reasonably pleasant ride out on a sultry summer evening. The guy with the sound system on his trike was nice to have around. There seemed to be less aggro back then - the police were friendly, chatty.

I think the grumpy chap stuck at the lights in his convertible Ferrari probably didnt realise what a bad idea it was throwing insults around when he had nowhere to hide....but he probably still hates cyclists and wont be so stupid again.

Whatever the original intentions of CM (kind of a reclaim the streets lilt really is how it felt to me back then) it is of little value now, and as mentioned above (prob by the flash I think) what has made the greatest impact on the general acceptance of cyclists on London roads is the "Critical Mass" of riders riding everyday, as part of the other traffic that has grown up a bit. Bus drivers plan ahead better and communicate with you. Taxi drivers are civil and respect your road space. Even peds are starting to look for traffic they cant hear coming (but maybe we should thank the Prius for that contribution to Darwinism)

the only time I ever encountered CM in manchester, I was riding down deansgate on my bike, and they were blocking the road, I was trying to get past them so said 'scuse me guys can I get past please' and I got abuse ! yes a cyclist from Critical Mass swearing at a non-CM cyclist

this is why I think that Critical Massers are be11ends

Mike Connor - there is a scheme called Bike Friday that operates in manchester where a rider with a tabard acts as a guide for other riders, a predetermined route and start time to encourage less confident road users

this is what you should be doing

If CM are not feeling the love on a cycling forum, you dont have to be Einstein to work out how the rest of the country feels.

And THIS is the problem. We're simply not welcome on the roads.

I applaud anyone who attempts to give an influential voice to the cycling community. It doesn't even matter if they **** it up. At least they're trying in the first place. And here's a guy, asking for advice on how they can improve the way their voice is presented, and it's met with a tirade of abuse from angry drivers, on a cycling forum.

There's really no hope.

I posted the following suggestion before somwhere and got flamed for it. If CM is aimed at increasing awareness of cyclists for safety or provision etc then they are having to overcome individual driver responses to having to perhaps delay for a few seconds when overtaking a cyclist etc.

Now what if CM could show how cycling rather than contributing to the congestion mess actually improves matters?
What if on one day in a year ALL cycle commuters who have a car drive to work with their bikes on the roof just to illustrate how bad the situation could be
prepared for a flaming...

At least they're trying in the first place. And here's a guy, asking for advice on how they can improve the way their voice is presented, and it's met with a tirade of abuse from angry drivers, on a cycling forum.

There's really no hope.

Have you read any of this?
There has been very little abuse and a lot of constructive comments made. All of which the OP dismissed.

And THIS is the problem. We're simply not welcome on the roads.

Not my general experience there are good and bad.

I applaud anyone who attempts to give an influential voice to the cycling community. It doesn't even matter if they **** it up.

At the moment it seems to be a battle with Motor Cycle News to be the most persecuted group of road users rather than do something useful about it.

Some simple advice I was once given though...

Don't Sh** on your own doorstep

So this critical mass thing, is it like car cruising but for cyclists ? From what i understand it's the 2 wheeled equivalent of getting in your souped-up corsa and driving around aimlessly pissing other road users off and claiming what your doing isn't technically illegal.

I'm a great believer in cycling as a mode of transport. I cycle in some form or another most days. I once went on a CM ride (in York), and eventually left in protest at the irritating people who took charge of pissing off other motorists.

the leicester critical mass is a fun monthly ride around leicester that ends at the pub. if people want to protest and cause trouble (which i have never seen or heard of) they are asked to leave. even the guys who organise it are not sure why its called a critical mass. i think it was just a convenient name. to be honest, the arsehats in london give our ride a bad name.

Hi, sorry for the delay in posting a report, but I simply don't have the time and inclination to spend anywhere near a fraction of the amount of time some of you seem to on here (do you actually ever find the time to ride your bikes?). I'm limited to lunch hours and the odd hour here and there.

There has been very little abuse and a lot of constructive comments made. All of which the OP dismissed

I must refute this claim, as it's simply not true. there has been widespread 'abuse' in the form of derogatory comments about the 'type' of people who atend CM rides, even sadly resulting in homophobia and general xenophobia. There have also been suggestions that tactics designed to cause harm to riders is used, through the use of 'carpet tacks'. I can't believe tat anyone who genuinely cares about cycling could make such a remark. And most of the comments clearly come from peole who have no experience of CM rides, yet express unjustified ignorant prejudice toward those who participate. There have been a small number of positive comments, for which I am grateful.

well, I was at the ride on Friday, and I must say I was really surprised at the sheer number of people taking part. I would estimate there was at least 2 or 3 hundred, perhaps more. And the 'type' of person ranged from smart city types to trendy youngsters on skateboards. There were even a few children along, including one little girl on the back of a tandem. So, a wonderfully diverse grouop of individuals, far from the stereotype genralised image some of you seem to have. Several people i spoke to said they had come along after seeing news reports of people being kettled and arrested for riding their bikes, and were angry at the actions of the police that evening.

We rode through Bloomsbury, and then down the Euston road and Marylebone, before turning back into central London along Edgware road. Due to the sheer size of the group, the 'peloton' did stretch out for some distance. Other cyclists joined en route, swelling the size of the ride still further. the atmosphere was great, everyone seemed relaxed and happy, and I had some nice chats with other people I'd never met before, so it had a lovely social feel to it. One guy I chatted to said several friends of his who hadn't ridden in central London before, ahd taken up cycling regularly after coming along to one ride.

Obviously some delays were caused to other road users and pedestrians at times, but this is an inevitable consequence of such a ride. The vast majority of motorists seemed fairly relaxed about things, and some even beeped their horns in support! i was very pleasantly surprised at how it was recieved to be honest. Loads of bystanders were asking what it was all about, and they all seemed to think it was a great idea. i even saw one couple quickly grab hire bikes and join in. I certainly didn't see any real anger and vitriol aimed towards us, unlike the kind i've witness on this thread. We endavoured to alow cars and pedestrians through wherever possible, and a police van managed to clear the group a lot more quickly than it would have through motor traffic. There was no police involvment that I saw.

There were unfortunately two nasty incidents i saw though. One involving a scooter rider who, instead of filtering through the riders who would easily have let him pass, decided to pick a fight with one rider, and wasted several minutes shouting and cursing. Pointless really. And i witnessed an irate car driver deliberately drive into the back of a cyclist, destroying his back wheel. The cyclist was merely trying to get the guy, who was driving very aggressively, to slow doen and allow people to clear the way in front. Instead, he was then surrounded by dozens of people whp photographed the car and bike. It was hjust outside Westminster Magistrates Court, where there are several cameras. For a moment of selfish madness, the driver will undoubtedly be looking at a fine and possible further sanction. Why he thought he had more right of passage than hundreds of cyclists show the small-minded selfish mentality of some idiots. His behavuiur was not at all representative of the majortiy of drivers though, fortunately. that moment did creat an uneasy atmostphere, and many people were angry at his actions, but i and several others managed to get people to calm down, and eventually everyone went on their way.

So, I found it a very pleasant, safe and enjoyable experience, as i imagine did most of the other people there. And my girlfriend and some of her firends will hopefully be joining us on the next one, so that's even more people encouraged to join in a bike ride in central London with lots of other like-minded folk. a great success inmy book, and as valid as any other cycling campaign/activity.

Shame none of you could make it though; you might have enjoyed yourselves instead of being angry on the internet.

So you still managed to piss off a few people then.

[quote=Trimix ]So you still managed to piss off a few people then.
😆

Busy thought you had just copped a ban for trolling 8)

Thanks cor quoting me I did re read the thread before saying that and I stick by it. Glad you had a fun ride. Have you worked out what you stand for yet?

Not intentionally. Most seemed to posses enough self control not to get all wound up, and the two that did seemed to be very aggressive people to begin with. they chose to become angry, no-one forced them to.

If you drive a car in an already congested city, you are selfishly adding to the problem. If there were less cars, there would be less congestion, and CM would cause fewer delays. so it's not CM's fault that London is congested, but the car drivers, of whom the vast majority have other travel options. Many however seem to think they are entitled to drive in an extremely congested city, with little or no thought for cyclists or other road users. If all those car drivers weren't on the roads, then riding a bike in central London would be a lot safer and far more pleasant.

I'll give it one go but my experiences with TJ suggest that this will be similarly futile.

The views of many you're just writing off for being abusive or derogatory are simply opposing views. You seem unable to consider that people quite legitimately think that CM is counter productive without having to also think that the car is king.

Some of us (who've actually attended CMs in London no less) think that there are better ways to achieve what seems to be your goal - making cycling in London (wherever) less risky/more pleasant. I wasn't on CM on Friday and I hope that it was just as you've described but tbh your style on here so far makes me think that you're quite likely to paint a picture that matches what you want to believe the perception of CM to be rather than what it actually may be to people who aren't so tied up in it.

If you drive a car in an already congested city, you are selfishly adding to the problem. If there were less cars, there would be less congestion, and CM would cause fewer delays.

Sorry. Did you REALLY just say that CM only stops drivers from driving around London because they selfishly choose to drive their vehicle around a congested city thereby blocking traffic? I can't begin to unravel the gordian knot of logic that stops you seeing you add to it.

Anyway, I decided to look on the website and other than the eye-ache I got from it, I'm still puzzled. What DO CM stand for? Totally get that some members get involve in other avenues and get stuff done to help cyclists but what does CM actually achieve or try to achieve?

Chichester has spoken, the forum has decided.

Do NOT attempt to change anything yourself, other people do that.

So it's CM or nothing?

How about encouraging people to consider cycling instead of driving their cars? You know, by talkin to them and encouraging them rather than by antagonising. I've got loads of people cycling or fixed their bikes so that they've got no excuse not to. I reckon that's been loads more productive than CM has.

Glad you had a fun ride. Have you worked out what you stand for yet?

Thanks, I did. For me, CM is simply about getting together with other like-minded people to have a fun, safe and relaxing bike ride in the city. Which I, and hundreds of others, did. To my mind, CM as an idea is not about any political agenda, regardless of those who think it is.

S

ome of us (who've actually attended CMs in London no less) think that there are better ways to achieve what seems to be your goal - making cycling in London (wherever) less risky/more pleasant. I wasn't on CM on Friday and I hope that it was just as you've described but tbh your style on here so far makes me think that you're quite likely to paint a picture that matches what you want to believe the perception of CM to be rather than what it actually may be to people who aren't so tied up in it.

Very few people have actually offered positive advice; most seem more intent on attacking something/someone they have no knowledge or experience of. Your expericen of CM rides obviously differs to mine. You are no more an 'authority' on the issue than I am. Having been on the latest ride, i am however far better qualified to comment on that particular ride.

Making comments about 'vegan lesbians' etc just shows how woefully ignorant and prejudiced some people are. But having read many posts on this forum, that seems to be the default setting for some, at least.

One conclusion I have made after last Friday, is that the people on this forum no more or less represent 'cyclists' than those on CM. Although many on here seem to think they do.

Chichester has spoken, the forum has decided.

Do NOT attempt to change anything yourself, other people do that.

[img] [/img]

I made some comments earlier in the thread about crusties/hippies/etc which you misread and took as being my own viewpoint which I think it clearly wasn't.

I haven't read the whole thread but I wouldn't be suprised if you've similarly misunderstood some other comments too.

You asked for comments and suggestions. Some as you would always expect are pretty useless, most that you seem to have taken offense to IMO have been people trying to say that they don't think CM is the best way to achieve something.

Have you worked out what you stand for yet?

I strongly believe in the murder of all CM attendees.

Some of us (who've actually attended CMs in London no less) think that there are better ways to achieve what seems to be your goal - making cycling in London (wherever) less risky/more pleasant. I wasn't on CM on Friday and I hope that it was just as you've described but tbh your style on here so far makes me think that you're quite likely to paint a picture that matches what you want to believe the perception of CM to be rather than what it actually may be to people who aren't so tied up in it.

^^ This.
As I said earlier, I have attended a couple of CM's (admittedly many years ago) but I stopped going because there didn't seem to be a point to it - no follow up, campaigns, publicity. It was just one evening of disruption which ultimately (as far as I could see) didn't really achieve anything.

What IS achieving increased awareness is the vast extra number of cyclists on the streets day in day out, the hire bike scheme, cycle superhighways. Not a once a month anarchic demonstration...

One conclusion I have made after last Friday, is that the people on this forum no more or less represent 'cyclists' than those on CM. Although many on here seem to think they do.

Yep

I strongly believe in the murder of all CM attendees.

Nice, are you going to do the murdering then big man?

I'm not gonna plough through all the us and them nonsense on this thread, but as the guy above says, look at Leicester CM as a positive example of what one could be.

It's respectful, it's fun, it's got aims and identifiable organisers (something which traditional CM seems to fight shy of, out of the fear that they'll be seen as an "organised" protest and have to get permission from the police) and - this is a major one - it's safe enough that people feel able to bring their kids on it.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/bike-blog/2011/dec/02/critical-mass

There are so many people out there now with negative CM stories that unless you're starting from scratch you're really going to have your work cut out.