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As someone who lives in Shropshire I have never experienced a Critical Mass.
I have seen it on TV and YouTube though and my perception, even as a cyclist, is that it is an antagonistic, confrontational, egotistical excuse masquarading as sticking up two fingers to the man.
I suspect to other people who haven't ridden one, and who aren't cyclists at all, but may be sat in their cars, or see it on the news or on-line might have a similar perception.
Not hard to see how that might have a negative impact on how all cyclists are perceived is it?
So suggestion.
Find ways to demonstrate how cycles and other forms of transport can happily co-exist because CM certainly does not do that, and if you can't then I suggest you stop.
CM has had it's day.
Educate not irritate.
Mike
You started a thread asked what we thought bad told us we were all wrong. Now using a variation of the Edinburgh defense you tell us your not bothered about our opinions.
Welcome to stw
Continuity; that is simply your opinion, and nothing more. But thanks for your input.
So, the message on here seems to be 'don't ride your bike in the city you live, work and pay taxes in, when and where you like, because you may upset and anger some other people'.
Disestablish them. Friday evening is the most likely time to piss off people trying to get home.
Knock it back 12 hours and you'll achieve that change in "perception" of CM that you seem to want.
But what about people who don't have time on weekends, due to family/other comitments? a bike ride for a couple of hours on a Friday evening, once a month, is great fun and a good way to meet up with others and enjoy just riding around. Why is the idea so abhorerent to people who claim to enjoy riding bikes?
So, I can only go out with a (small) group of friends at a time and place when and where it is convenient for others? Is that it? just so I don't get in ther way? Can i not ask them to leave their cars at home, use alternative transport so that i can ride my bike in a motor traffic free environment? Or do
I not have the same rights as them?
Mike.
From my perspective there have been lots of suggestions about what we, STW forum users, think of Critical Mass. But you continue to dismiss everyone of them with "it won't work" or "you don't know anything about us".
I'm a member of SAS and have been for many years. They were very antagonistic to begin with, which I liked at the time, the same time as I experienced CM, but they change their tactics and became a lobby group. They have been very sucessful since. CM will only become sucessful if you adopt the same. Otherwise it will always be a loose group of cyclists being an annoyance with creating any good.
Do something about the tagalong rent-a-protest followers. There appears to be a load of non-cycling related issues getting dragged in too.
I agree with most of your Cycling aims, but am put off by events such as last time.
Why get involved in Olympic protesting? What's the relevance?
And if you go near the Paralympics tonight you'll lose what little support you have left.
What a bellend.
But, if it's going to go on, the biggest thing that IMO would improve it would be to change the demographic that attends. The current attendees are too easy to write off as different/wierd/crusties/hippies/troublemakers/etc irrespective of how fair or unfair that may be. If you could attract more people that appear to be more 'normal' then that's where it'll work.
So, the only people who can attend are those who fit into your narrow margin of 'acceptability', then?
Please, enlighten us on what would constitute a suitable outfit and appearance. This is fascinating.
'don't ride your bike in the city you live, work and pay taxes in, when and where you like, because you may upset and anger some other people'.
No, its not, who said that, or do you have selected hearing? I ride my bike, when and where i want, but I don't feel the need to do it in a way that angers and antagonizes other road users who happen to be 5 feet away from me, in a 2 ton hunk of steel, traveling at 30 to 60 mph.
We ask for courtesy from other road users, so shouldn't we in return offer them the same courtesy?
Mike - How does it feel to know James Murdoch has done more to improve the image of cycling in this country, and made it more inclusive, than any of you lot?
[img] 
[/img]
Could you point it out to the CMers tonight? They've even nicked your 'celebrating cycling' tagline. I bet that's gonna sting 😆
So, the message on here seems to be 'don't ride your bike in the city you live, work and pay taxes in, when and where you like, because you may upset and anger some other people'.
No the message on here seems to be 'don't ride your bike in a way that deliberately antagonises other road users, especially if you don't actully know why you are doing it'
Not that hard to understand is it?
I did a couple of CM's in London many years ago. I used to work in Waterloo and went along one night out of curiosity - a couple of workmates were going so I just joined them. Back then (15 years ago) it was an interesting idea and most people seemed to think it was doing something about getting noticed etc but I stopped going because of the rent-a-mob that hijacked it and it became very unpleasant. That and the fact that there was nothing productive about it; no campaign or publicity or lobbying.
Maybe it's changed in the 15 years since I did one? Maybe, as others have mentioned, the "Critical Mass" in London now is the sheer volume of people cycling, the Cycle Superhighways, the Barclays Cycle Hire?
Or maybe you need to get away from the "look at us, we're cool anarchists" attitude and do some proper lobbying and campaigning like CTC, British Cycling & London Cycling Campaign do...
Rebels without a clue?
A monthly protest was only ever going to become a dull annoying disruption.
A bit like bin collection day.
CM would do better taking a rest,and come back with a better plan .
A few more posts whilst I was typing.
I'm forming an opinion here, and Binners summed it up on page 1.
[b][i][u]"I'm not listening"[/u][/i][/b]
Mike: serious question. Are you just trolling????
Nicely done, Binners! 🙂 Sky have done way more to make cycling positive than CM!
Oh, and this from earlier...
Have you not sort of picked up on this, given the reaction you're getting on a specific cycling forum FFS?!!!
But you see, we're all blinkered, biased and ignorant. Or, as anyone else would put it, we just don't agree with CM. Ho hum.
How does it feel to know James Murdoch has done more to improve the image of cycling in this country, and made it more inclusive, than any of you lot?
I'm sure Mr Murdoch has created the campaign of using existing routes and information, rather than really providing anything new, giving out tabards emblazoned with Sky branding, and used his media companies to promote the events purely through philanthropic altruism.
Or maybe you need to get away from the "look at us, we're cool anarchists" attitude and do some proper lobbying and campaigning like CTC, British Cycling & London Cycling Campaign do...
Several people I've met on CM rides are members of those organisations, as well as Sutrans and other cycling campaign groups. It's people like that who are far more effective in creating improved provision for cyclists, than people who sit on forums judging others for the way they look.
I quite like the idea of being a 'cool anarchist' though. Do I need to wear a special outfit?
But you see, we're all blinkered, biased and ignorant.
No, I wouldn't say ALL of you are. There are one or two who appear to have sat down and thought about things, as well as some who have actual experience of CM.
I went on a few London CM rides when I lived there. Some positives - there was actually a pretty good feel about most of it, and I never felt unsafe riding with a group of complete strangers; most people were there for the fun of it.
The big negative, and the reason I stopped going, was the fact that the rides seemed to get hijacked by the troublemakers who [u]wanted[/u] to antagonise anyone they could - including the police escorts, as well as car drivers.
Nobody tried to stop them, because it's not an organised ride, so no-one felt responsible. I'm not sure how CM can become self-policing and weed out the self-proclaimed "anarchists" if there are no organisers, but until they are weeded out, CM is just going to irritate the more responsible road users and give the idiots more ammunition.
I quite like the idea of being a 'cool anarchist' though. Do I need to wear a special outfit?
Yep.
[img] http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcTsUfvW4YH38Q9V7_BeDry1hob0AbUBD8y4m1BrKxVdvmLTFB8A [/img]
So, the message on here seems to be 'don't ride your bike in the city you live, work and pay taxes in, when and where you like, because you may upset and anger some other people'.But what about people who don't have time on weekends, due to family/other comitments? a bike ride for a couple of hours on a Friday evening, once a month, is great fun and a good way to meet up with others and enjoy just riding around. Why is the idea so abhorerent to people who claim to enjoy riding bikes?
So, I can only go out with a (small) group of friends at a time and place when and where it is convenient for others? Is that it? just so I don't get in ther way? Can i not ask them to leave their cars at home, use alternative transport so that i can ride my bike in a motor traffic free environment? Or do
I not have the same rights as them?
Mike, I've lived and cycled in London for 12 years now. On the bike today. This is the last from me on this thread.
I'll be enjoying a bike ride this evening. Probably tomorrow too. I'll go where I like, there won't be this imaginary battle you have over "inconvenience", I'll just ride safely and get on with other citizens whether they're cyclists, pedestrians, or motorists. Sharing. If there were commitments preventing one of these rides, I'd live with it, maybe go next week.
You seem to want to misrepresent my words from earlier, so I'll try to be clear:
The message is NOT in any way "don't ride your bike".
The message IS don't be a **** about it.
Bigblackshed you beat me to it.
Is it the ghost of tj ?
5 pounds to me
"[b]What time does the revolution start?[/b]"
"I think it's next Tuesday"
"[b]You are kidding,I am busy all Tuesday[/b]"
"Well can't you move stuff around?"
" [b]No, I have had this booked for ages[/b]"
" Ok, I will check with Trevor,and see if we can reschedule "
" [b]Ok, I will let Sandra know[/b] "
" Power to the people"
" [b]Yeah[/b] "
Sky and murdoch saw an advertising oportunity, thats all.
It's like saying barclays have done a lot for cycling.
There are one or two who appear to have sat down and thought about things, as well as some who have actual experience of CM.
Thanks. That includes me, then. 🙂
I'll be enjoying a bike ride this evening. Probably tomorrow too. I'll go where I like, there won't be this imaginary battle you have over "inconvenience", I'll just ride safely and get on with other citizens whether they're cyclists, pedestrians, or motorists. Sharing. If there were commitments preventing one of these rides, I'd live with it, maybe go next week.
Me too. Looks a nice day, so I might take a longer route home. Via the pub, possibly. 🙂
I'm sure Mr Murdoch has created the campaign of using existing routes and information, rather than really providing anything new, giving out tabards emblazoned with Sky branding, and used his media companies to promote the events purely through philanthropic altruism.
You are wrong.
I have given cycling safety training to numerous people who are new to cycling and (re)started riding their bikes through Sky Rides. They are inclusive, safe, and well organised. They give people the confidence to go out and ride on the roads in a controlled environment, then spread their wings to make more journeys by bike after the event.
The routes of the Sky Rides are chosen to so that all the road users can get along.
The contrast between that and CM is huge.
If you must ride around central London, why not do it at 10pm when the streets are quieter and you can enjoy it more?
I've guided a charity ride on a 100km loop around London that started at 11pm, it was like riding in an alternative fantasy London with no cars. It was fun. It was more like a celebration of cycling than being shouted at by people who just want to get home from work.
The big negative, and the reason I stopped going, was the fact that the rides seemed to get hijacked by the troublemakers who wanted to antagonise anyone they could - including the police escorts, as well as car drivers.
I agree that there are a small element who seem bent on stirring things up. One of the problems is, that everyone is there representing themselves, and most are very un-confrontational, and therefore probably don't feel able to challenge the antagonistic element. But yes, if they could be dissuaded from attending, this might improve matters somewhat. That all CM riders are tarred with the same brush is a negative aspect which leads to many of the attitudes displayed here, and the police actions last month. However, given the fact that very very few arrests have ever been made in the history of CM (until last month where it's possible more were arrested than in the whole of the time CM has existed previously), and that CM rarely if ever makes anything but very local news headlines, I think the vitriol aimed at the event and it's participants is totally disproportionate.
It seems there is no easy answer, and we arrive at an impasse. CM will continue for as long as people are interested, and certain issues will continue. Personally, I just like ther fact I can go for a bike ride once a month, with likeminded others, in the city i live, work and pay taxes in. That others are mildly inconvenienced at best, is a small price to pay, in my opinion. Which is surely as valid as that of any other individual?
seems to be some very reactionary views again on this topic-- strange how a few people on bicycles can attract such venom,abuse,ridicule, yet thousands of motorists causing much more delays, injuries,etc,receive no such condemnation--thats just normalisation , what people expect, funny
kind of world we live in ?
A cycling forum, for those who ride certain bikes and dress in the correct manner !
*Self edit. Going to have lunch in the sun instead*
I just like ther fact I can go for a bike ride once a month, with likeminded others, in the city i live, work and pay taxes in.
You can do that every day mate.
I'll be enjoying a bike ride this evening. Probably tomorrow too. I'll go where I like, there won't be this imaginary battle you have over "inconvenience", I'll just ride safely and get on with other citizens whether they're cyclists, pedestrians, or motorists.
That's great, because so will I. The fact that several hundred others will be doing the same thing in the same place as I am, is also great. Isn't cycling together so much fun?
So do I. I just choose not to be selfish about it and allow other people to like the fact that they can do whatever they want, with likeminded others, in the city they live, work and pay taxes in.
I won't be preventing anyone else from going about their business. so, what's the difference between your activity and mine?
Make it more like the Leicester CM. More families enjoying a safe cycle round the city than anarchic fixed gear riders (though we do turn up). A few miles round the city then everyone goes to the pub. Look at the pictures here, see anything other than people having fun on bikes?
[url= https://m.facebook.com/leicester.criticalmass?slog=1386904084&seq=1188062553&rk=0&st=friend&fbtype=2048&refid=46&m_sess=18p5Y5-eQJhvM9R ]Leicester CM[/url]
I'm not a crusty and I don't live in London town so I'll probably never go to one.
So far as I know the agenda is to piss off strangers in order to convert them to your cause... please clarify of this is not the case.
cookeaa - Member
So far as I know the agenda is to piss off strangers in order to convert them to your cause... please clarify of this is not the case.
There is no agenda,
there is no manifesto,
there are no leaders,
there is no planned route,
and most of all...
...there is no point
in London at least, it's a non-movement which has had it's day,
grow up, move on and engage.
In answer to the original question.
A hair cut
Some soap
But more seriously how about listening rather than shouting.
Having an aim
I have ridden in towns cities and the country there are problems but being a male chicken is not the way to achieve this
improve it? you need to start from scratch, define your goals and form a plan of action.
Currently a bunch of cyclists set out to deliberately annoy all other road users (including cyclists from what im reading on here)
an equivalent would be a couple of hundred drivers, towing caravans, driving round in circles partly cos they can, partly just to annoy everyone else.
i keep stuff like CM at arms length as it gives cyclists (me) a bad name, that might be due to the actions of a tiny minority who tar you all with the same brush, that might happen because none of the rest of you have the strength to stand up for what you believe in
or that might be because you dont really know what/why you do what you do
when HGV drivers blockade the refineries - at least they can communicate their point concisely
If CM are not feeling the love on a cycling forum, you dont have to be Einstein to work out how the rest of the country feels.
CM Does. So there is the difference. We have no problem with your personal bike ride, just CM.
The 'inconvenience' is an unfortunate consequence of the fact that a mass group of cyclists holds up some traffic for a short while. compare this to the 'inconvenience' of the danger and pollution caused by cars on our roads, and it soon becomes inconsequential really.
And you have been extremely rude towards me, without any provocation. I have no problem with you expressing your views, but please try not to be so antagonistic and confrontational.
Make it more like the Leicester CM. More families enjoying a safe cycle round the city than anarchic fixed gear riders (though we do turn up). A few miles round the city then everyone goes to the pub. Look at the pictures here, see anything other than people having fun on bikes?
That looks no different to a London CM ride. Good point about more families and kids getting involved though. Would that validate the event more?
Currently a bunch of cyclists set out to deliberately annoy all other road users (including cyclists from what im reading on here)
Neither i, nor the vast majority of other CM riders I've met, set out with this intention. The annoyance is simply down to the individual reaction of others. They choose to be annoyed, rather than us deliberately annoying them. There are a small minority on CM who do choose to act in this manner, however, so perhaps public perception is being tainted by the actions of the few, rather than that of ther many?
I'm a bit puzzled. It seems that a key part of the ethos of CM is that it is an unstructured, unorganised group of cyclists exercising their right to freely assemble and go for a ride along an unplanned route. Is there not a fundamental disconnect between the nature of the event and your desire to manage "problems with CM's 'image'", which presumably requires some sort of formal organisation and control?
I'm participating in Pedal for Scotland in a couple of weeks. 9000 cyclists riding between Glasgow and Edinburgh, involving traffic management and road closures. None of this may be relevant to CM, but some of the things that make this event successful are:
- broad participation (all ages, genders and types of bike, lots of families with kids)
- organisation (including planned route, police involvement, traffic management)
- good publicity (lots of information, long term promotion, endorsement by celebs and major politicians, regular email updates providing advice and information)
- integration and legacy (connections with various cycling organisations and information encouraging people to get involved in cycling generally)
- charity link up (raising money for good causes at the same time as promoting cycling)
- positive atmosphere (lots of smiles and encouragement from the public, thousands of cyclists having fun)
I'm sure Mr Murdoch has created the campaign of using existing routes and information, rather than really providing anything new, giving out tabards emblazoned with Sky branding, and used his media companies to promote the events purely through philanthropic altruism.
Mike - Been on a Sky Ride have you? No? Then by your own criteria - you're in absolutely no position to pass comment on something you clearly know nothing about! 😆
I've been on a couple. Once with my 2 kids, when they were ickle, in a trailer. They closed off all the streets in the city centre so we could cycle around our city (you know... the one we live, work, pay taxes for etc, etc, yadda yadda yadda... ) in safety. With loads of like-minded people. Lets, for arguments sake, refer to them as 'cyclists'.
So... a bit like Critical Mass really, without the bell-endery
Been on a Sky Ride have you? No? Then by your own criteria - you're in absolutely no position to pass comment on something you clearly know nothing about!
I have actually. I've even got a bright pink Skyride tabard. Next question?
They closed off all the streets in the city centre so we could cycle around our city (you know... the one we live, work, pay taxes for etc, etc, yadda yadda yadda... ) in safety. With loads of like-minded people. Lets, for arguments sake, refer to them as 'cyclists'.So... a bit like Critical Mass really, without the bell-endery
But with far more disruption to drivers, by the sounds of things. i wonder how drivers felt about having their roads closed off just so a bunch of cyclists could ride around? maybe it was ok because Mr murdoch organised it.
Some interesting ideas, Kcr. I am not part of CM as an 'organisation', simply because it isn't one. Therein lies the fundamental difference between it and what you are doing.
I don't expect to see many of you at tonight's ride, but for anyone who likes to find out about things rather than basing their judgement on what they read on the internet etc, come along and enjoy!
[i]So how would you improve Critical Mass?[/i]
.....
[i]I have no problem with you expressing your views, but please try not to be so antagonistic and confrontational.[/i]
You've answered your own question.
maybe it was ok because Mr murdoch organised it.
Yes Mike, everyone thinks its ok because Roop said so. Thats how everything works in our twisted and corrupt society. Even in Manchester 🙄
Or maybe its because
a) They did it on a Sunday afternoon, so weren't preventing them getting home from work on a Friday evening
b) it was well organised, clearly advertised months in in advance
c) Was generally attended by families, kids etc. Well... people who didn't give you the vague impression you'd seen them earlier drinking White Lightning in the park, with a dog on a piece of string
drinking cider in the park with a dog on a piece of string
Most people use straws; I am curious how one would imbibe cider through a dog on a piece of string. It sounds like a wild night out though.
dats how we roll alex222.
With no proper aim / organisation / structure it just becomes self defeating and pisses off most people. Its now worse than pointless.
There is also no way of providing constructive feedback - as you have shown so well on here !
I shall avoid it, both as a cyclist and road user.
I imagine its something like the brass eye dog smoking thing.