Lets say average bloke riding an average ride. Is it going to be better work out than on a geared bike? And if so, why? And does the same theory apply to road bikes?
hmmm it sort of changes your fitness a bit.
if you push it really hard on a SS ride it's a bit like interval training. (try HR zone training on a ss - dificult)
I found it's made my legs stronger - pushing big gears up hills.
I reckon commuting on my Langster has improved my fitness way more than a geared bike. You just have to put a lot more effort in = get fitter.
no not particularly, but it does seem to make facial hair proliferate
No
You just become a better singlespeeder.
and accentuates your arseyness ?
Pushes your muscles harder, and uses other muscles - loads more upper body muscles, as well as aerobically giving you a better work out.
Does absolutely nothing a geared bike can't do. Except that it's slightly lighter, so will make it easier to get up the same hill in an equivalent gear. Oh, and sometimes you'll end up walking where a geared bike could pedal on, so that will reduce your fitness 😉
If you want to train by having inappropriate gears, no reason you can't do that with a geared bike, just don't shift. Singlespeeding might have its charms but by itself it doesn't make you fitter.
...and it's the perfect excuse...
'well I've only got one gear'..
...and with lots of gears I can go out and ride in harder gears than you, thus getting more benefit.
I rode a single speed from being 7 to being 15 and have no intention of going back.
scott_mcavennie2 - Member
Pushes your muscles harder, and uses other muscles - loads more upper body muscles, as well as aerobically giving you a better work out.
[b][u]An[/u][/b]aerobically, surely?
there's two sorts of people; the ones who think that not changing gear is the same as riding singlespeed and the ones in the know.
<strokes obligatory cycle industry facial topiary>
I like how people, who i assume to be geared riders, have immediately attacked SSing. I dont know whether its tongue cheek but whatever, who cares.
The way i see it, Singlespeeding makes you think more about how you cycle and definately makes you use your upper body more. Especially your lower back from churning your chosen gear up steep hills. I PERSONALLY find SSing much more involving and rewarding experience. I wouldn't however say it is for everyone, some people simply prefer gears and/or suspension.
My suggestion is go and buy a singlespeed kit for about 20 quid and convert whatever your current XC/Commuting bike is with it. Okay its not ideal like track dropouts are but then you dont have the choice of gears and you have to think about those hills.
Ive never walked where a geared bike could still pedal.
My bike is no weight weeny.
Ive never used the excuse "ive only got one gear", in fact quite the opposite.
The only time innapropriate gearing comes into play is when the riders a wimp.
Aye - but the question is - does it make you fitter?
If you enjoy riding more from it then i suspect so. If you got on and thought "F*@: this for a lark" then no.
I PERSONALLY find SSing much more involving and rewarding experience.
I personally find I prefer not to notice my bike or its characteristics at all 🙂
SSing makes you fitter, but the downside is you have to take a load of spare sprockets with you. Then you have to change your sprockets over from your low SS gear on the hills, to a higher gear on the flats and downs. It becomes a real hassle after a while so I started using gears again.
I think it has made me a better climber yes. Howevever it only works if you go back to gears otherwise your extra fitness offers you no advantage.
I think it mostly comes down to having to attack hills to get up them so it is very like interval training or hill reps.
You keep the rear cog and chainwheel to a level where you're working above 80hr/VO2max then sure you will get fitter than doing nothing or an easy gear ratio.
Thats why I like gears-I can choose etc and also allow recovery for easy rides.
No
it doesn't make you fitter in the slightest. You drink more booze (singlespeed events all seem to involve lots of beer) and grow more facial hair (therefore increasing wind resistance and drag due to beer wok and gandalf chinwarmer).
If you are particularly special you get a 29er and then not only do you get slower/more alcoholic/look more like a geography teacher, but you also loose the ability to ride dinky wheels and therefore completely ruin riding proper bikes as well!
So, in summary: you get slower, fatter, and you liver and kidneys dissolve.
Singlespeeds are bad mmmmmkay!
My mate left his bike dirty and wet for a month which meant that he went single speed for a while he was slower than me in general riding but he's got a new bike now with gears and he is flying
try SSing while your mates are riding gears it is really hard work keeping up with them.I think it has made a big difference to my fitness SSing through the week then gears on the weekend.I seem to go much faster on the geared bike but i am no scientist :lol:.
It makes you fitter, but the dodgy knees make you slower...
oldgit has it. it just makes you a better singlespeeder. You can't get anywhere near a decent heart rate on the flat, most of the time you'd be pedaling in recovery, then on any serious hills, you really working too hard. and DH you're hardly working at all.
so, no, a road bike is best, then a nice steady flatish off road on a geared bike are best for fitness.
Although after a season on the SS, getting back on geared bike does feel like cheating up the hills!
and accentuates your arseyness ?
LOL! 'hello Pot? this is Kettle'....
I personally find I prefer not to notice my bike or its characteristics at all
didn't you switch back to hardtail last year and state you were finding riding it much more interesting/enjoyable?...
Single speeds on balance do make you fitter as you are spending a lot more time in the wrong gear and you just don't have the option of spinning up the hills. You can get the same work out from a geared bike but it isn't as easy to put that level of effort in.
Last winter I did a lot of long (2hrs) steady rides up the tow path on the SS – towards the back end I was able to average about 18kph over the run – on the geared bike & road bike – I had good aerobic endurance
This year I’ve tended to ride a more regular off road loop – still a 2hr session but more gloop and climbs – as a consequence I am climbing better and stronger on the geared bikes – I’ve lost some speed but still have a good base
So I’d say yes singlespeeds can significantly & specifically increase fitness
Oh & while I’ve trashed the rear wheel and drive train on the SS – the ‘nice’ (expensive bikes are all good)
it'll only make you fitter if you put more effort in. but more effort on a geared bike will also make you fitter!
however i will say that to ride big hills on a SS you have to be damn fit, whereas someone on a geared bike doesn't necessarily need to be
it'll only make you fitter if you put more effort in. but more effort on a geared bike will also make you fitter!
not sure about this? some times getting fitter involves not working hard.
true, i guess it depends how you define fitter, effort etc. i'm not an expert... when i rode a fixie every day to and from work a few years ago i had really good power and acceleration. now i work much further away and ride in on my road bike which, when i've done it regularly enough, has definately made me better at climbing / endurance
Getting up a hill requires a certain amount of work. Gears don't change that.
SS probably makes you fitter because you'll be working muscles that don't get used otherwise. There's a period of about a month to acclimatise to single speed and you'll notice the effects in this period. I suppose it's what they call core strength these days.
It certainly feels better.
The only excuse for gears is if you are old and frail.
It does if you're weak-minded like Badnewz and always going into the granny ring on a geared bike for those local climbs.
one thing that definately helps you push harder is that getting off and pushing might humiliate you in front of some (irrational) anti-SS types
"The way i see it, Singlespeeding makes you think more about how you cycle and definately makes you use your upper body more. Especially your lower back from churning your chosen gear up steep hills."
But back to what I was saying earlier, are you aware that geared bikes aren't automatics? They only change gear when you tell them to (well, usually), so you can still "churn your chosen gear up steep hills"
Actually, if we accept that that being in the wrong gear is better, geared bikes are better, because you can choose never to be in the wrong gear- but sometimes singlespeeds will collude with the trail and actually put you in the right ratio, which is unsettling I'm sure. If you had gears, you could simply flick it up or down a cog and get back to spinning furiously or mashing a big gear.
All singlespeed is about is taking away a choice. A geared rider can choose not to mash the wrong gear, a singlespeeder can't. But the geared rider can choose to have the exact same gear as the singlespeeder.
Hi,I've found that by riding fixed has helped to improve my fitness.By riding in and out of town and to work when I can on my fixed gear. Then when I hit the trails on my geared f/s mtb,i've improved and also my pedal techinique has also improved,(always pedalling,not freewheeling!).
So I can ride longer.So I must be fitter!!!
Made me fitter.
No, they don't. Well not inherently. If you're lazy on a geared bike and just drop into an easy gear at every hill then being forced to work hard on a ss may well mean you get fitter.
Fwiw, the winter I did most of my road training on a fixie, I found that it resulted in worse fitness since the flatter stuff was just a bit of a bimble. Obviously the climbs were hard but then I didn't bimble them when on my geared bike. 48x18 so 17/19mph on the flat was the natural pace which was lower than I'd have otherwise done.
Northwind - Member
...But the geared rider can choose to have the exact same gear as the singlespeeder.
It's not just about the ratios, it's about the improvement in the way your bike feels.
Light, tight and responsive as opposed to flaccid, rattly and heavy.
And a single speeder can choose to not need all the other gears.
For me SS'ing is just another different but equally enjoyable way of riding. i know that there is no way I would enjoy a ride in the peak on the SS but it is great round muddy places such as cannock or local rides. one of the main reasons for that is no mud on the drivetrain causing drag and alot less faff when cleaning. It definitely improves the core muscles and shoulders and the ability to mash an innapropriate gear without snapping a 9 speed chain.
No,it just increases your holier than thou smugness..
It's not just about the ratios, it's about the improvement in the way your bike feels.
Light, tight and responsive as opposed to flaccid, rattly and heavy.
lol. Only in your head! My geared bike feels just the same as my ss. Noisier, yes but flaccid and heavy? Seriously? Get over yourself! 🙂
All singlespeed is about is taking away a choice
you might have something there. it's taken away my choice to have a rear mech ripped off half way through a local ride... 😉
That's a choice?!
My rear mech snapped off my P7 t'other week so I've decided to use it as a single speed for a while and see how I get on.
Bloody hell what a workout. My abs are killing me and my legs are like jelly after a ride. So it's certainly seems to be making me fitter. In a different way I suppose.
if you put the right ratio on the ss, you end up working at your limit almost all the time on a pretty flat route. I have a 35mile route with 500m climbing I do on my singlespeed mountain bike (P7). Probably 40% road. Best time, 2hr 53m.
Have done the route with folks with gears and they almost always get dropped.
The key is getting a gear that puts you at your limit
ss is cool
thomthumb - Memberit'll only make you fitter if you put more effort in. but more effort on a geared bike will also make you fitter!
not sure about this? some times getting fitter involves not working hard.
You sure? apart from rest/recovery days getting fitter involves a lot of working hard
Have done the route with folks with gears and they almost always get dropped
so they're either not racing you or are less fit than you 🙄 If as you seem to be suggesting, SS was inherently faster then all the racers would be on them.
I dont mean to imply that riding in the wrong gear is a good thing. I have found that if you use the right ratio for your riding then you shouldnt really be in the "wrong" gear.
Ive commuted on my inbred (2:1 ratio) and yes, its very slow and you dont work up a sweat. Thats why i have two bikes, a fixie for commuting and a inbred for off-road commuting and the muddy stuff.
One of the biggest changes I've noticed about ridding single speed is that it has improved my cadence - while out and out speed is not is good as a geared bike - spinning at 80rpm off road certainly gets me glowing
No it doesn't make you fitter.
It does make you more attractive to geared riders wives and girlfriends though.
Seems to be turning into a debate about the merits of single speeding, but to return to the original question:
...average bloke riding an average ride. Is it (singlespeed) going to be better work out than on a geared bike?
No. The conditions in an average ride will vary (uphill/downhill, tailwind/headwind etc) and a range of gears allow you to optimise your training effort for these different conditions. A single gear is only effective when training under controlled, unvarying conditions, A.K.A a velodrome! (and even trackies vary their fixed gears for different workouts).
There's another clue about how effective SS is for training here:
try HR zone training on a ss - dificult
The science of modern training is built on zones (HR or power) so if it is "difficult" to zone train on SS, this suggests it is not as effective for improving fitness as using a range of gears.
That's a long winded answer, but for a short answer, look at people whose business is fitness. How many pros (on or off road) train on single speed? (and I mean [b]train[/b] not an occasional bimble about on a SS for fun).
Rode nothing but my ss mtb an road bike last year, the ss made me much stronger and I'd say fitter and allowed me to push a far bigger gear on the road bike. Ask my regular riding mates what they think!
OP maybe 😉
Genesis - so that suggests you were lazy on your geared bike...
KCR – there is a whole school of thought that essentially calls in to question heart rate training zones – as been to varable and effected by outside influences. – Favouring instead power based training zones eg Andrew Coogans work. – Power based training is perfectly possible on a single speed – I use this methodology – using a Garmin 305 – and sporttrack training dairy - I tend to use the SS through the winter to develop an endurance base & strength - then use a mix of all three bike the rest of the year
And that riding the SS forced him to be less lazy on the climbs? So did help his fitness in a particular way, although not necessarily making him fitter overall. I use an SS road bike to commute on, and geared it reasonably high for me. Instead of the 3-4 gears I'd use (and occasionally take it easy in) I'm now putting in more effort. I'd agree that you could make the choice to use one gear, but lots of folk aren't that disciplined so it helps. Oh, and it's faster 🙂
So, exactly what I said earlier. A ss won't inherently make you fitter but if you're naturally lazy it'll force you not to be 😉
...there is a whole school of thought that essentially calls in to question heart rate training zones – as been to varable and effected by outside influences. – Favouring instead power based training zones...
I think all schools of thought recognise that power measurement is the most accurate and effective method of quantifying your training. HR simply preceded this before power meters were generally available, and it is still a useful approximate measurement of effort if you don't have a power meter. That's why I said "zones (Power or HR)" in my original post.
Either way, it's the zone approach that matters, not the particular way you measure the zones.
Power based training is perfectly possible on a single speed...I tend to use the SS through the winter to develop an endurance base and strength - then use a mix of all three bike the rest of the year...
So by your own admission, you cannot cover all the zones with your single speed, so returning again to the original poster's question, a geared bike is more effective for training!
Yep, I was lazy on my geared bike.
So if you're naturally lazy then it makes you fitter 🙂 To be fair, I was so naturally lazy I couldn't be arsed to ride the mtb SS I had 😉
You sure? apart from rest/recovery days getting fitter involves a lot of working hard
was talking about base/ endurance. LSD.
How many pros (on or off road) train on single speed?
singlespeed racers? i would have thought train what you race?
I think fitness is too loose a term. do we mean stronger or cardio, skills or a comination?
Del wrote,
"you might have something there. it's taken away my choice to have a rear mech ripped off half way through a local ride.."
I have always chosen to not do that myself, and it seems to be working. Seems a strange thing to choose really. I've only ever seen one person knock a mech off- then again that was on mcmoab, and our singlespeeder had already declared it impossible to ride with his gearing anyway so I guess that's a no score draw.
Dasnut wrote,
"if you put the right ratio on the ss, you end up working at your limit almost all the time on a pretty flat route"
That's why they call it flatbiking. Or do they? I seem to recall something about mountains.
Epicyclo wrote,
"Light, tight and responsive as opposed to flaccid, rattly and heavy."
My Soul is light, tight and responsive.
Thing with this is... I've got no beef with people who choose singlespeeding, it's quite a nice way to ride and I can see the appeal. I just don't like completely spurious justifications for it. What's wrong with just saying "I like it, whether or not it's "better"?" It's like people who tell themselves mudguards make no difference, or hydro brakes are hard to set up, or full suss makes you a bad rider. All just nonsense justifications for something that doesn't need to be justified.
i don't find it makes me fitter. better at powering up (shortish)hills...yes. however, after any period of mostly mtb ss'ing i find it difficult to hold high intesity efforts for long. training hard on geared bikes helps improve that. the obvious conclusion is different bikes/training help different aspects of performance.
Northwind - Member
Epicyclo wrote,
"Light, tight and responsive as opposed to flaccid, rattly and heavy."
My Soul is light, tight and responsive...
And it could be even lighter, tighter and more responsive 🙂
clubber - Member
My geared bike feels just the same as my ss. Noisier, yes but flaccid and heavy? Seriously? Get over yourself!
So there's no slack in your chain and the derailleur and cassette are made of superlightium?
Epicyclo wrote, "And it could be even lighter, tighter and more responsive"
True that, but it's already light, tight and responsive enough 😉 I imagine I could shed more weight by removing the brakes and going saddle-less too.
yesiamtom - Member
Ive never walked where a geared bike could still pedal.
So, you've got your bike geared too low for normal riding then.
chorlton - Member
Bloody hell what a workout. My abs are killing me and my legs are like jelly after a ride.
And riding in the wrong gear is more tiring than riding in the correct gear.
Sorry if I sound smug. I ride a Rohloff. Best of both worlds and all that. 8)
I'd say not necessarily 'fitter' but maybe a different rider. It'd probably get you fitter initially, and certainly faster as it encourages interval training to a greater extent just by the nature of necessity. But overall a proper training program that incorporated intervals as well as tempo work would more than likely be more effective, otherwise pro's would use SS more aye!
They would kinda make your averagely fit rider with a sound fitness base faster 'fitter?' if used in the lead up to a race. Hey we would of come in the top 10 in the bikefest on our SS bikes if we'd entered the geared category a few years back and we were a combo of cripples, drunks and special needs kids all with a few weeks SS riding, point proved. 😀
An interesting question should be:
"So does riding a single speed increase your pleasure?"
That get's a big "YES" from me 🙂
When it comes to fitness, I think the vast majority of riders on geared bikes are less likely to push their limits. Roadies or MTB-ers. I watched a dozen or so riders (with gears) on their way up the pass from Edale on Saturday - they were working hard, but none were out of the saddle. Compare that with "pro" riders who would be stood up at least for the steep bits.
Why the assumption that because youre on a s/s you'll be working on hills?
i.e I did a local road club hill climb on my s/s that I did work on, otherwise I'd just pootle up it.
I'm not knocking s/s I rode it almost exclusively for eight years. Sitting down or standing is no sign of effort being put in.
I do much prefer to ride my ss. I can just get on and ride, its fitted with a super durable fork, Hope M4's and nice wide Conti Vert Pro's and is about as maintenance free as it can get. I always seem to be in the wrong gear on my fs bike, probably means that I'm a poor rider 😉
I don't ride it for smugness or attention and it kind of annoys me when I get smarta** comments from riders that I pass on it. Its not that I've got one gear and am showing off blah blah blah, its that my bike probably weighs 10lbs less than their 6inch All Mountain Thrasher and is much easier to pedal!
I've pretty much exclusively been riding my SS road bike so far this year, commuting most days on it plus a few road rides. That's got a 48:17 (76") gear. Been doing a lot of track riding too, usually on a 50:16 (84") but I'll up that to a 49:15 soon.
I'm not sure if it makes you *fitter* but I went out for a road ride last week with some of the local club guys. I know them but I'd never actually ridden with them til then. I put up with the usual comments about being in the wrong gear, not being able to ride hills etc but it soon stopped when they realised I was first up every hill! I'm not really sure if that's me being fitter or just the fact that I needed to just go for it. As Simon1975 says ^^, I think it's mostly down to geared riders not pushing the limits as much, the ability to stick it in a little gear and twiddle.
SS on road makes a lot of sense but I admit I don't really "get it" for off-road use.
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meh
i'm lazy.
i don't do training rides; i'm not a professional athlete, wtf would i be training for?
gears let me take it easy, they're ace, i can potter along in granny gear all day long without breaking sweat, except for porter clough obviously.
i like gears.
put me on a single speed, and every climb becomes a near-death experience, i have to go fast enough to be able to keep the gears turning. a local loop that's an easy 2hour pootle on my geared bike becomes a 90 minute interval training session on my single-speed.
it's good for me, i like single-speeding.
If you're an average rider who doesn't really train, and just wants to ride more, SS can be good. They're easier to clean, maintain or neglect, lighter and more efficient than an equivalent geared bike, and the challenge/bragging rights of riding them makes it a good option if you want to keep things fresh, instead of just pining for dry dusty trails.
It has to be said though that most of the fit SS riders I know put in serious mileage on geared bikes too.
I do both but do like ss'ing, especially in the mud. Fitter? No idea about the science, but I "feel" stronger/fitter after a few weeks of s/s. For me it makes me work harder as the only way to get up each climb is to really go at it, so I presume that makes me lazy on a geared bike.
I'm sure a scientific training approach would be better but that pre-supposes I want to invest time and effort in the programme and I have time for more than a ride or two a week - not the case!
I enjoy riding my singlespeed a lot, so it makes me want to go out and ride, so it gets me fitter.
A geared bike could have the same effect, but for now it's the singlespeed so yes, it makes me fitter!
And after all the shouting, WGAS anyway? It's just riding bikes. 🙂
I bought a SS for riding over winter and I would definitely say it has made me fitter / faster on the geared bike.
I agree with the comments about interval training. My SS sessions tend to be shorter or have more rest breaks, my max & average HR will be higher. But I will burn more calories on a geared bike sessions (stay out for longer).
On my local loop, on the geared bike I stay in the middle ring now whereas before I would use the granny a reasonable amount.
I also don't believe the guys who say they can get up any climb on a SS that they could on a geared bike, unless they are using mega low ratios, long draggy steep climbs kill me on the SS.
32x18 btw 🙂
Epicyclo
So there's no slack in your chain and the derailleur and cassette are made of superlightium?
There's no slack in the chain - or at least the bit that's important - the section that's under tension is exactly the same on a geared or SS bike.
The extra weight is not sufficient to make any real world difference unless you're a serious racer pushing things to the limit (do you suddenly ride dog slow when you fill your Camelbak more than usual?). While my SS is probably a pound or two lighter than my similarly spec'd geared bike, I can't say that I've ever noticed it while riding. You do notice it in the car park, mind and I guess that's what's important to some...
My 2p: riding a singlespeed almost certainly makes you stronger and may make you more supple also, whether it makes you fitter or not depends on many other variables.
There's a lot of BS on this thread but this is the high-point for me:
A single gear is only effective when training under controlled, unvarying conditions, A.K.A a velodrome!
There are no other circumstances where using a singlespeed is effective training?
PURLEASE!
DT78 - 32:18 is known round here as 'yorkshire gearing'
I definitely get fitter on SS. If I ride gears I almost never get out of the saddle (being old and fat I worry that I will snap a chain) and am always last to the top of the hills. Singlespeeding - I'm usually up with the rest of the guys.